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Reuben Foster Arrested On Domestic Violence Charges

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  • How can we throw shade at the niners for drafting Foster and say the McDowell pick was only bad in hindsight. I think both of them were good moves at the time, they just didn't work out. There was nothing in McDowell's history to suggest he'd get into an ATV accident and an altercation at a club besides a lack of effort on the field (do those even correlate?) and there was nothing in Foster's history suggesting he would be involved in something as serious as a domestic violence case.

    Both front offices took somewhat of a gamble and neither paid off so far. One side making fun of the other doesn't make much sense here.
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  • adeltaY wrote:How can we throw shade at the niners for drafting Foster and say the McDowell pick was only bad in hindsight. I think both of them were good moves at the time, they just didn't work out. There was nothing in McDowell's history to suggest he'd get into an ATV accident and an altercation at a club besides a lack of effort on the field (do those even correlate?) and there was nothing in Foster's history suggesting he would be involved in something as serious as a domestic violence case.

    Both front offices took somewhat of a gamble and neither paid off so far. One side making fun of the other doesn't make much sense here.


    When you’re talking about rival fans, it shouldn’t always make sense
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  • Well, plenty of people acted like the Hawks were idiots for not taking Foster, so........
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Well, plenty of people acted like the Hawks were idiots for not taking Foster, so........


    And plenty of people, myself included, thought brining in Percy Harvin was a great move for the Hawks.

    Hindsight is a hell of a drug.
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  • No doubt. I was fricken stoked. On talent alone, Percy was ridiculous. Other than that, epic fail as a teammate.
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  • I was severely bored so I was reading the “denial zone”. In the “do we cut Foster thread”, quite a few poster said the main reason they didn’t want him cut was that he’d sign here and destroy them twice a year. LOL. I’d see the chance of that happening as close to 0% as you can get. Maybe with Jerruh’s kids, but I don’t see any other teams willing to take the huge PR hit.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Well, plenty of people acted like the Hawks were idiots for not taking Foster, so........


    And plenty of people, myself included, thought brining in Percy Harvin was a great move for the Hawks.

    Hindsight is a hell of a drug.


    I thought the Percy acquisition was bad from the start...

    ...but I'm not getting a big head. I've been wrong about ALOT (I mean ALOT) of other stuff. LOL.
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  • I feel pretty sorry for the guy, actually.

    He's had about as tough of a life as it comes. His father shot his mother whilst she was holding him when he was very young for crying out loud.

    He's seriously damaged goods, poor guy.
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  • original poster wrote:I feel pretty sorry for the guy, actually.

    He's had about as tough of a life as it comes. His father shot his mother whilst she was holding him when he was very young for crying out loud.

    He's seriously damaged goods, poor guy.


    Yeah, he's definitely had a rough go of it for sure, and really didn't seem to grow up in an environment that would prepare him to have his crap together at 23 years old. I think the issue with him right now is that we don't really know the details of most of this stuff, so it's unclear if his behavior are things we can explain AND excuse, or if his behavior is things we can explain and CAN'T excuse.

    For instance:

    Weed in Alabama: If you're in a state with really draconian weed possession laws it's dumb to be carrying weed around, but this is something I can both explain and excuse.

    The Gun: Is it a gun he bought legally in a different state that's illegal in the state of CA and he didn't know that? Again that's dumb, but I can explain him making bad decisions, and can excuse him doing something dumb. Or maybe it's a federally banned gun with no serial number on it that he bought off someone? That I can explain but can't really excuse, and as it's a federal crime he's probably going to serve jail time for it. IMO there could be a big difference between "explain" and "excuse" on this one, depending on the details.

    The Altercation: We know he was living with his long-term girlfriend, they got in a fight, and he was kicking her out -- he put her stuff on the porch. The accusation is that he also dragged her out of the house, which is where the DV charge comes from. Did he carry her out of the house? Did he pull her by her shoulders out of the house? From his background I can explain him having an unstable relationship with a SO, and I from that explanation I can excuse those types of things, thinking he probably needs to get out of that relationship and needs to get some counseling. Or maybe he dragged her out by her hair, or literally tossed her out of the house, or struck her with an open or closed fist or choked her while dragging her out of the house. I can explain that too, but can't excuse it at all. IMO there could be a HUGE difference between "explain" and "excuse" on this one, depending on the details.

    9ers fans are comparing Foster to Aldon Smith, but I don't really think that's right. Aldon has addiction problems and was a huge dumbass many times over, but never hurt anyone. Foster isn't close (yet) to Aldon's many, many instances of dumbassery, but he may have hurt someone.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:Yeah, he's definitely had a rough go of it for sure, and really didn't seem to grow up in an environment that would prepare him to have his crap together at 23 years old. I think the issue with him right now is that we don't really know the details of most of this stuff, so it's unclear if his behavior are things we can explain AND excuse, or if his behavior is things we can explain and CAN'T excuse.

    For instance:

    Weed in Alabama: If you're in a state with really draconian weed possession laws it's dumb to be carrying weed around, but this is something I can both explain and excuse.

    The Gun: Is it a gun he bought legally in a different state that's illegal in the state of CA and he didn't know that? Again that's dumb, but I can explain him making bad decisions, and can excuse him doing something dumb. Or maybe it's a federally banned gun with no serial number on it that he bought off someone? That I can explain but can't really excuse, and as it's a federal crime he's probably going to serve jail time for it. IMO there could be a big difference between "explain" and "excuse" on this one, depending on the details.

    The Altercation: We know he was living with his long-term girlfriend, they got in a fight, and he was kicking her out -- he put her stuff on the porch. The accusation is that he also dragged her out of the house, which is where the DV charge comes from. Did he carry her out of the house? Did he pull her by her shoulders out of the house? From his background I can explain him having an unstable relationship with a SO, and I from that explanation I can excuse those types of things, thinking he probably needs to get out of that relationship and needs to get some counseling. Or maybe he dragged her out by her hair, or literally tossed her out of the house, or struck her with an open or closed fist or choked her while dragging her out of the house. I can explain that too, but can't excuse it at all. IMO there could be a HUGE difference between "explain" and "excuse" on this one, depending on the details.

    9ers fans are comparing Foster to Aldon Smith, but I don't really think that's right. Aldon has addiction problems and was a huge dumbass many times over, but never hurt anyone. Foster isn't close (yet) to Aldon's many, many instances of dumbassery, but he may have hurt someone.


    Great perspective. I enjoyed reading this. Thanks.
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  • Thanks, man.

    Someone made that explain/excuse distinction to me about a decade ago, and it’s always struck me as a super useful way to think about bad behavior.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    original poster wrote:I feel pretty sorry for the guy, actually.

    He's had about as tough of a life as it comes. His father shot his mother whilst she was holding him when he was very young for crying out loud.

    He's seriously damaged goods, poor guy.


    Yeah, he's definitely had a rough go of it for sure, and really didn't seem to grow up in an environment that would prepare him to have his crap together at 23 years old. I think the issue with him right now is that we don't really know the details of most of this stuff, so it's unclear if his behavior are things we can explain AND excuse, or if his behavior is things we can explain and CAN'T excuse.

    For instance:

    Weed in Alabama: If you're in a state with really draconian weed possession laws it's dumb to be carrying weed around, but this is something I can both explain and excuse.

    The Gun: Is it a gun he bought legally in a different state that's illegal in the state of CA and he didn't know that? Again that's dumb, but I can explain him making bad decisions, and can excuse him doing something dumb. Or maybe it's a federally banned gun with no serial number on it that he bought off someone? That I can explain but can't really excuse, and as it's a federal crime he's probably going to serve jail time for it. IMO there could be a big difference between "explain" and "excuse" on this one, depending on the details.

    The Altercation: We know he was living with his long-term girlfriend, they got in a fight, and he was kicking her out -- he put her stuff on the porch. The accusation is that he also dragged her out of the house, which is where the DV charge comes from. Did he carry her out of the house? Did he pull her by her shoulders out of the house? From his background I can explain him having an unstable relationship with a SO, and I from that explanation I can excuse those types of things, thinking he probably needs to get out of that relationship and needs to get some counseling. Or maybe he dragged her out by her hair, or literally tossed her out of the house, or struck her with an open or closed fist or choked her while dragging her out of the house. I can explain that too, but can't excuse it at all. IMO there could be a HUGE difference between "explain" and "excuse" on this one, depending on the details.

    9ers fans are comparing Foster to Aldon Smith, but I don't really think that's right. Aldon has addiction problems and was a huge dumbass many times over, but never hurt anyone. Foster isn't close (yet) to Aldon's many, many instances of dumbassery, but he may have hurt someone.


    I agree with every single word with the exception of any excuse for him physically removing her from the home. There's just not an excuse for it. I can't see a single way it could have been self defense. If he wanted her removed from his house, there are legal means and if he has the right to have her removed, the police would have done it for him.

    Obviously there's still the need to know exactly what happened, but there really is no excuse for the "violence" unless it was in self defense (which could possibly include defense of property or others, but doesn't seem to fit in this particular scenario).
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  • kidhawk wrote:I agree with every single word with the exception of any excuse for him physically removing her from the home. There's just not an excuse for it. I can't see a single way it could have been self defense. If he wanted her removed from his house, there are legal means and if he has the right to have her removed, the police would have done it for him.

    Obviously there's still the need to know exactly what happened, but there really is no excuse for the "violence" unless it was in self defense (which could possibly include defense of property or others, but doesn't seem to fit in this particular scenario).


    Yeah, 100% agreed with you in a legal sense, but just say hypothetically (we REALLY don't know) if she was going crazy and he forced her outside (like how a bouncer who was good at his job would do with a belligerent person at a club) or even picked her up and carried her outside in a non-injurious way, that's illegal, but it's also something I can kinda understand and make sense of.

    It's not something I ever did in my teens or 20s, but it's definitely something I can imagine myself having done, and something I've seen friends who aren't even remotely abusive people do to deescalate a crazy situation with a SO at around that age. If that's what it was I think it goes in the "dumb, call the cops" category that carrying weed in Alabama goes in, at least for me.

    And of course, behind door #2 is he touched her in anger, and even worse maybe in an injurious way, which is an ENTIRELY different thing IMO, and for which I don't want him on the team I root for anymore.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:
    kidhawk wrote:Obviously there's still the need to know exactly what happened, but there really is no excuse for the "violence" unless it was in self defense (which could possibly include defense of property or others, but doesn't seem to fit in this particular scenario).


    Yeah, 100% agreed with you in a legal sense, but just say hypothetically (we REALLY don't know) if she was going crazy and he forced her outside (like how a bouncer who was good at his job would do with a belligerent person at a club) or even picked her up and carried her outside in a non-injurious way, that's illegal, but it's also something I can kinda understand and make sense of.


    I think my last paragraph covers any situation where she was going crazy or acting out in some outrageous fashion that he wasn't left a lot of options. As I said, we need to find out the whole story. I can completely understand how DV stories can often be over exaggerated (to say the least) by one or both parties, especially in the heat of the moment when there is a lot of highly charged emotions at play.

    if there were injuries, the police would have surely documented them, and if not, then it likely comes down to a he said vs she said and we may never actually know the extent of what happened. Then it becomes a bit of a gray area. Without a history of previous offenses, and no injuries in a situation like this, it's hard to cast blame at this point, but it certainly is not a good look to be arrested twice this early in the off season.
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  • kidhawk wrote:if there were injuries, the police would have surely documented them, and if not, then it likely comes down to a he said vs she said and we may never actually know the extent of what happened. Then it becomes a bit of a gray area. Without a history of previous offenses, and no injuries in a situation like this, it's hard to cast blame at this point, but it certainly is not a good look to be arrested twice this early in the off season.


    Yep, it doesn't look good at all, and that's *even with* the absolute best case scenario for him of the gun and altercation not being as bad as it initially sounds, and both of them very well might be WORSE than they initially sound too.

    In terms of the DV, legally, if it gets that far (which it almost never does) it will likely come down to physical evidence, but morally (and this is just a personal thing, not a rule) after everyone has had time to cool off I always give much more credence to the story of the victim, regardless of the situation, as although they *might* be lying, they are much less likely to have the pressing motivation to lie, or to keep up something they said in the heat of the moment.

    In the heat of the moment people are worked up and say crazy things, but months later, if we have to make an educated guess, I just think *most people* aren't crazy and aren't entirely willing to make things up out of thin air. There are always exceptions to this (e.g. Carolyn Bryant Donham's end-of-life confession), but I do think those probably are the exceptions to a more general rule.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:There are always exceptions to this (e.g. Carolyn Bryant Donham's end-of-life confession), but I do think those probably are the exceptions to a more general rule.

    I don't think they're as rare as you think, unfortunately... :(
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:There are always exceptions to this (e.g. Carolyn Bryant Donham's end-of-life confession), but I do think those probably are the exceptions to a more general rule.

    I don't think they're as rare as you think, unfortunately... :(


    You are probably right, but I for one don't want to make that assumption.

    In this case I think we just need to let it take its course. If Reuben had punched, kicked, or struck her in any way, I think he's unemployed today.

    Removing someone from their home in an argument? I just dunno. I think too often people are too lazy to see nuance to a situation and want a draconian "one rule fits all" type of enforcement. I don't believe in that. Life is too complex.

    This isn't to defend Reuben because I really don't know the specifics of the situation, but there are a lot of different situations that could have resulted in what he has been booked for.

    My hope for primarily her sake and for Reubens sake that there was very little physical contact between them.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:There are always exceptions to this (e.g. Carolyn Bryant Donham's end-of-life confession), but I do think those probably are the exceptions to a more general rule.

    I don't think they're as rare as you think, unfortunately... :(


    You are probably right, but I for one don't want to make that assumption.


    It's a topic for a different thread and a different forum, but the data suggest that both of you are very in that assumption,
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