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No Fun League @ it again

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No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:11 am

Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:33 am
  • Now people whining in the game day forum about helmet to helmet hits on RBs or on Russell while he's a runner might actually be right for a change. This stinks. They'll probably think they were always right too.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:42 am
  • Ejection seems pretty rough. I dunno, lowering a head seems like a potentially natural response in some instances. A QB sneak, for example. Diving forward, for another.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:48 am
  • college is already doing this.

    The NFL knows it needs to save this game and to do that they need to protect their players, even from themselves. These types of rules should quickly lead to a change in the way players go about their tackling, and ideally, lead to changes in how tackling is coached at the younger ages.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:54 am
  • Mixed feelings on this one.

    To be honest, more interested in seeing a prohibition on tackling in football before the age of 12.

    But after reading about the guy who refused to be inducted into the Montana football HOF because he believes football 'ruined his life', I have mixed emotions about how much I enjoy the game but then gaining a growing awareness that some of these players that I loved - are going to be decimated in later years because of the physical and bruising way they approached the game.

    I am most worried about guys like Lynch, Kam and Earl with the amount of hits they dished out over the years. But any player that plays football or played it through college or pros, some part of me worries about now. Football takes a toll and I think some of the blame people dish out about players burning through their money should at least consider that one of the first things that gets impacted is decision-making. So part of the reason some football players seem to make such poor decisions can at least potentially be at least somewhat be the result of the injuries they are sustaining.

    So anything that limits the risk? Absolutely.

    Do I believe they will screw it up and make a bad call that literally ends up costing teams games? Absolutely.

    Is it probably worth it to change even if it makes the game 'less fun' if somehow we limit the amount of former players that are left struggling through the rest of their life with brain injuries? Absolutely.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:59 am
  • Its a great point TH

    Also, there are a number of states that are now doing that with their football programs. While some offer "non tackling" leagues, others are outright banning tackling until a certain age.

    Hockey did it with checking years ago and the sport seems to be chugging along
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:59 am
  • This pretty much takes out the power runners and full backs..
    To think more it will also take out a lot of TE's(Not Jimmy)
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:59 am
  • Extending it to offensive players was 100% necessary.

    In a league where the rules are already stacked in favor of the offense, you can't have receivers dropping their head and folding in half when a defender approaches them in hopes of drawing a penalty. It's both a competitive and safety issue.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:00 am
  • Hasn't Pete been teaching his players these upcoming changes for the most part, at least on tackling technique?

    Not sure I like refs getting the ability to make a game changing ejection on their interpretation of a hit though. College game had some pretty awful ejections.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:09 am
  • I doubt we notice much of a difference, at least on defence. If this leads multiple penalties a game for incedental contact that's one thing, but my bet is that it will have to be a pretty blatant offence. Defenders should be leading with the shoulder and wrapping up, anyways.

    My one concern is how is this rule going to be enforced on offense? How do you go for extra yards without lowering your head? Do they expect these guys to stay upright and get hammered, while also risking more leg injuries?
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:12 am
  • Osprey wrote:Extending it to offensive players was 100% necessary.

    In a league where the rules are already stacked in favor of the offense, you can't have receivers dropping their head and folding in half when a defender approaches them in hopes of drawing a penalty. It's both a competitive and safety issue.

    The Steeler Wr and Atl(Jones)both do this a lot.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:32 am
  • Pretty weak really. Just look how many times a lead blocker puts his head down. This is FOOTBALL. Why not just put bubble wrap around the players? :roll:
    Last edited by SoulfishHawk on Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:35 am
  • This is about the lives of human beings. I'll sacrifice that for no longer being able to enjoy "jacked up", and "fun" if it means a man gets to watch his daughter walk down the aisle.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:35 am
  • It's football, guys get hit hard, guys use their heads. It's a risk they CHOOSE to take.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:14 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:It's football, guys get hit hard, guys use their heads. It's a risk they CHOOSE to take.


    Saying it's their choice lacks so much empathy for their situation.

    Not all, but a lot of these guys avoided a very low standard of living and life in criminal neighborhoods because they were given a gift and worked hard to excel above .001% of the population.

    Part of the reason some of them even have an education is because it was FREE (because of football).

    Now, you actually expect them to CHOOSE not to play because there is a risk they could get a life threatening head injury? No one is or really ever had turned down the fame or the money for the health risk, and you wouldn't either.

    So, because it's an impossible decision, let's allow them to live their lives and go the extra step to try to avoid head on head collisions. There's still going to be risks, but let's take the biggest risks out of the equation..

    I don't think the NCAA is any worse to watch with the targeting rule implemented,and that's what we're looking at.


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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:19 pm
  • mistaowen wrote:Hasn't Pete been teaching his players these upcoming changes for the most part, at least on tackling technique?

    Not sure I like refs getting the ability to make a game changing ejection on their interpretation of a hit though. College game had some pretty awful ejections.


    This. I too, saw some really bad calls in college. I don't know what the answer is, but this is going to be a damn nightmare.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:22 pm
  • Yeah, that's me, no empathy :roll:
    I just don't want them turning the NFL in to flag football that's all. Watch a replay of any game, and look how often guys put their heads down. Seems like a lot to ask of them to adhere to this rule. But, who knows, maybe it won't be as bas as it sounds. Will be interesting to say the least.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:31 pm
  • “leading with the crown of their helmets to initiate contact against an opponent“

    It shouldn’t apply to a RB diving for the end zone because they are not initiating contact the defender would be attempting to do that. Yes there’s going to be judgement calls but it’s good to at least have replay to hopefully limit the questionable ejections. They have to do something the problem seemed to get worse last year with some sickening and unnecessary hits (Trevathan’s hit on Davante Adams comes to mind). I don’t find watching guys getting knocked unconscious to be much fun at all.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:33 pm
  • True, it can be pretty brutal. It was interesting hearing how baffled Brown was on 710 a little bit ago.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:36 pm
  • Soulfish,

    Remember these guys often start their journey into the NFL at the age of 9, maybe 10.

    The commitment requires evenings, summers and years. By the time they hit the NFL they probably committed 10 years to this, if not more. My friend had a kid that played safety for the University of Washington. They don't get to pick their classes, and many instances not even their doctor. It is an investment of years to an opportunity few actually can reach.

    Now remember that while we knew about concussions, the actual impact and depth of the problem + who it impacts was not clear until maybe the past 5 years. Maybe 3.

    I work in technology. If tomorrow computers just stopped working, or I could no longer work in tech? I would be screwed. They kind of face the same issue if you take away football from them.

    Consider a kid that devoted that many years taking the single track to star college and hopefully NFL. Then find out that the danger is that large? But what choice does he have?

    A lot of these kids do not have other options and it isn't their choice.

    Given that, wouldn't you be OK with 'watering down' the game a bit in de-emphasizing the physical aspect to emphasize the athletic instead?

    Football was and sometimes still is about the ability to inflict and endure pain/punishment. But I can still get behind a game that is more about fantastic runs, amazing catches, or a tremendous effort batting away the ball. Especially if that means more of them can remember the names of their wives later or don't become violent with family members later. (Read up on what happens to these guys and how it affects their families. Trust me, there is no way they signed up for that and it is ridiculous the NFL hid what it knew for so long)
    Last edited by TwistedHusky on Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:38 pm
  • naholmes wrote:“leading with the crown of their helmets to initiate contact against an opponent“

    It shouldn’t apply to a RB diving for the end zone because they are not initiating contact the defender would be attempting to do that. Yes there’s going to be judgement calls but it’s good to at least have replay to hopefully limit the questionable ejections. They have to do something the problem seemed to get worse last year with some sickening and unnecessary hits (Trevathan’s hit on Davante Adams comes to mind). I don’t find watching guys getting knocked unconscious to be much fun at all.

    This happened before any rules ..
    It was absolutely fun to watch Steve Largent knock out the Denver safety that put a visious
    knock out hit on him like 8 weeks before..I loved it ..really did!
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:45 pm
  • Good points Twisted.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:53 pm
  • Anything that nudges players towards better technique, even if draconian, seems like a good start. A few years of seeing how it plays out and revisiting 3 to 5 years down the line - why not?
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:04 pm
  • TwistedHusky wrote:Soulfish,

    Remember these guys often start their journey into the NFL at the age of 9, maybe 10.

    The commitment requires evenings, summers and years. By the time they hit the NFL they probably committed 10 years to this, if not more. My friend had a kid that played safety for the University of Washington. They don't get to pick their classes, and many instances not even their doctor. It is an investment of years to an opportunity few actually can reach.

    Now remember that while we knew about concussions, the actual impact and depth of the problem + who it impacts was not clear until maybe the past 5 years. Maybe 3.

    I work in technology. If tomorrow computers just stopped working, or I could no longer work in tech? I would be screwed. They kind of face the same issue if you take away football from them.

    Consider a kid that devoted that many years taking the single track to star college and hopefully NFL. Then find out that the danger is that large? But what choice does he have?

    A lot of these kids do not have other options and it isn't their choice.

    Given that, wouldn't you be OK with 'watering down' the game a bit in de-emphasizing the physical aspect to emphasize the athletic instead?

    Football was and sometimes still is about the ability to inflict and endure pain/punishment. But I can still get behind a game that is more about fantastic runs, amazing catches, or a tremendous effort batting away the ball. Especially if that means more of them can remember the names of their wives later or don't become violent with family members later. (Read up on what happens to these guys and how it affects their families. Trust me, there is no way they signed up for that and it is ridiculous the NFL hid what it knew for so long)


    Exactly my point. By the time they've invested into this, it's not really a choice anyone could every make to walk away so we need to step in an protect them.

    Does anyone think the college game is no longer enjoyable? I still enjoy it a lot!
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:02 pm
  • I think you really need to look at what leading with crown means, not incidental helmet to helmet contact but as a weapon is what I am leaning on, the hit on Davis Kam had was clean, hits where your torpedoing a guy head first using the head as a bullet and then running thru the guy is one of the biggest issues. not helmet to helmet itself.

    We called it spearing when I played.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:13 pm
  • Again I have no issue with the penalty. It is the ejection. That can change a whole game. Imagine if play one of SB 48 KAM gets booted. I believe it'd unfair to change the landscape of the game.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:30 pm
  • This is about the league surviving long term

    The players complaining today are the same players suing the league tomorrow

    With all that is known in regards to head injuries the league didn’t have a choice
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:39 pm
  • mikeak wrote:This is about the league surviving long term

    The players complaining today are the same players suing the league tomorrow

    With all that is known in regards to head injuries the league didn’t have a choice


    And the same players that won't be around in 15-20 years, with few exceptions.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:53 pm
  • I don't get this at all. Some guy makes a movie, invents a syndrome and it is just now accepted as fact? Boxers take much more punishment with sparring and some going 30 years, and most are fine. Some of course are messed up, but that is related to the big blows like Heavyweights. You could actually watch the Frazier-Ali fights and see that the fight should have been stopped. It was great entertainment, but there were several concussions involved in 1 hour. Football? This is just an over-hyped move to extort large sums of money from the game in most cases.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:16 pm
  • I just hope the NFL doesn't turn into the NHL with constant rule changes and no hitting. If so it will become unwatchable like hockey..
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:32 pm
  • So, what happens to a RB that lowers his head as he is going through the hole? This is going to be tough.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:41 pm
  • WmHBonney wrote:So, what happens to a RB that lowers his head as he is going through the hole? This is going to be tough.

    That is leading with helmet..15 yards and a warning
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:35 am
  • jeremiah wrote:I don't get this at all. Some guy makes a movie, invents a syndrome and it is just now accepted as fact? Boxers take much more punishment with sparring and some going 30 years, and most are fine. Some of course are messed up, but that is related to the big blows like Heavyweights. You could actually watch the Frazier-Ali fights and see that the fight should have been stopped. It was great entertainment, but there were several concussions involved in 1 hour. Football? This is just an over-hyped move to extort large sums of money from the game in most cases.


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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:14 am
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    WmHBonney wrote:So, what happens to a RB that lowers his head as he is going through the hole? This is going to be tough.

    That is leading with helmet..15 yards and a warning

    We will have to see but I doubt that’s a penalty except in extreme cases.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:15 pm
  • naholmes wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    WmHBonney wrote:So, what happens to a RB that lowers his head as he is going through the hole? This is going to be tough.

    That is leading with helmet..15 yards and a warning

    We will have to see but I doubt that’s a penalty except in extreme cases.


    Yes otherwise RB will become even more devalued as running straight up will reduce yardage
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:12 pm
  • mikeak wrote:
    naholmes wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    WmHBonney wrote:So, what happens to a RB that lowers his head as he is going through the hole? This is going to be tough.

    That is leading with helmet..15 yards and a warning

    We will have to see but I doubt that’s a penalty except in extreme cases.


    Yes otherwise RB will become even more devalued as running straight up will reduce yardage

    That is exactly what it will lead to with no doubt..
    It will be a passing game attack with a bunch of short passes to hybrid rb's
    in place of handing it off as much to avoid reduced yardage and 15 yrd flags.
    To be fair though you see Zeke do it all the time and Beast as well..
    (leading with head)you can't have a rule for one side only..
    I would just have anyone who wants to play sign a waiver because
    the game is how it is.You cannot make all these rules and expect
    that people are going to enjoy flag fests and delibrate slow action
    just to avoid flags.All you can do is enforce the head hunting and
    the dives with head that some do.
    Otherwise lets go to shorts with no helmet/pads and use flags..
    Some of you sound ready for that.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:45 pm
  • Sounds a lot like the West Coast Offensive league with a smattering of WWE slapped in. Hmmm....ya waht a league.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:02 pm
  • The owners and players need to write health care for life and start to use the new info about exercise and diet programs that bring people back from CTE issues into the next CBA along with signing a disclaimer before entering the nfl
    It would distance the owners from it and provide insurance for the players and give them the best chance for recovery after the game
    In grade school another kid and I were the hardest hitters and they put us head to head quite often to see who would flinch and neither of us ever did and it was fun but I imagine that it has impaired my writing skills some but whateva
    I know these guys are playing a game they love and want to make money doing it so of course they would do it so just let em play
    How boxing has avoided some lawsuits like these just baffles me but maybe that's the cte talking ??? :sarcasm_off: :sarcasm_off: :sarcasm_off: :sarcasm_off: :sarcasm_off: :sarcasm_off: :sarcasm_off:
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Fri May 25, 2018 10:16 pm
  • The players are being paid extremely well, and the concussion thing is way overblown. Next there will be no head shots in MMA, or boxing too. They are not saving the league, they are destroying it. Let those who are willing to play and love the game take the chance of damage, it is there in all sports. To take it away or try to, is just destruction. I guess that is what the lawyers, and most of the sports media want. It is like putting women into combat roles, most officials in military will tell you they are awesome, but it is all BS and we know it.

    I guess you younger fans can go along with these changes to a once beautiful and near perfect game, but it is definitely inferior to the 60's up to the 1980's NFL.
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Sat May 26, 2018 6:24 am
  • Guess they dont want anymore Ryan Shaziers...
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Sat May 26, 2018 8:27 am
  • Not to belittle the plight of ex football players, but have you ever seen a retirement-age concrete finisher? Probably not, because that job takes a physical toll on a body like you wouldn't believe. It's not the only "regular job" that has a long-term physical toll either. At least the NFL players get a good income for a short while, and the college players get a college education without student loans to deal with. I think that expecting NFL players to kill themselves for our entertainment is unrealistic, but I also think that football players expecting to get that much money and come out of the experience totally unscathed is also unrealistic. Now to draw the line in the middle somewhere...
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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Sat May 26, 2018 1:02 pm
  • mistaowen wrote:Hasn't Pete been teaching his players these upcoming changes for the most part, at least on tackling technique?

    Not sure I like refs getting the ability to make a game changing ejection on their interpretation of a hit though. College game had some pretty awful ejections.



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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Sat May 26, 2018 5:38 pm
  • GeekHawk wrote:Not to belittle the plight of ex football players, but have you ever seen a retirement-age concrete finisher? Probably not, because that job takes a physical toll on a body like you wouldn't believe. It's not the only "regular job" that has a long-term physical toll either. At least the NFL players get a good income for a short while, and the college players get a college education without student loans to deal with. I think that expecting NFL players to kill themselves for our entertainment is unrealistic, but I also think that football players expecting to get that much money and come out of the experience totally unscathed is also unrealistic. Now to draw the line in the middle somewhere...


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Re: No Fun League @ it again
Sun May 27, 2018 6:52 am
  • jeremiah wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:Not to belittle the plight of ex football players, but have you ever seen a retirement-age concrete finisher? Probably not, because that job takes a physical toll on a body like you wouldn't believe. It's not the only "regular job" that has a long-term physical toll either. At least the NFL players get a good income for a short while, and the college players get a college education without student loans to deal with. I think that expecting NFL players to kill themselves for our entertainment is unrealistic, but I also think that football players expecting to get that much money and come out of the experience totally unscathed is also unrealistic. Now to draw the line in the middle somewhere...


    Drywall, sandblaster, to spraying epoxy finishes in sewer holding tanks...now retired. I have my pains and limitations. I know a pilebuck that had to have two shoulder replacement surgeries at 55 just from hard repetitious work. Give me a break you players of football. We make $75K a year more or less depending on continuity of the jobs. The MANY give a lot when earning a living. The FEW football players do too, but are rewarded VERY well.


    Hell, a military retiree that makes E-7 before they retire after 20yrs of beating the hell out of their body gets a whopping $24k (ish.)

    An NFL player beats up their body for 4yrs?

    $201,453 annually at age 65 or $76,920 annually at age 55. For the purposes of this example, the owners would contribute $470 for the players credited season in 2011, $560 for each credited season from 2012-2014, $660 for each credited season from 2015-2017 and $760 for each credited season 2018-2020.
    2018 Adopt a Rookie: Rashaad Penny

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