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Rams trade for Brandon Cooks

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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:06 am
  • bigskydoc wrote:Rams will look good right up until the point they have to pay Goff, and they look to be setting themselves up fairly nicely for that too.

    TBH, I wasn't that sold on Goff when he was coming out of college. It will be interesting to see what happens when his rookie contract is up.

    I will be really interested to see what happens to the first team that decides to trade, or let walk, their franchise QB after his rookie deal is up. Is it possible that the right coaches can set up a system where an adequate QB, surrounded by an all-star cast, can make a run? It wouldn't surprise me to see the Rams give it a shot, maybe even the Eagles when you consider how their season went after their franchise guy went down.

    Crippling a team, to pay a QB who is merely good, doesn't seem like a recipe for success to me.



    I agree, and I too have been waiting for this to happen.

    I honestly thought the Seahawks should have done it, although in hindsight it's good that they didn't with the decline of Sherman and Chancellor.

    If it came down to keeping this entire team together minus Goff, that would be very, very tempting.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:29 pm
  • Thing is, IMO, eventually the QB is gonna have to step up and make a play only a great QB can make. Maybe the team is having an off day, the opposing team is playing possessed or has a great gameplan, or a string of unlucky plays occurs. At that point, it's up to a great QB to carry the team. A receiver, RB, defensive player, etc. will have a harder time doing this. In the playoffs this happens often IMO. This year's Eagles are an exception IMO. Their gameplan was excellent and the whole team executed it to perfection in the NFC championship and SB. Foles made some great plays, but he wasn't under duress. I wouldn't gamble on that happening for every game in a playoff run if I was running a team. That's why a Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Brees type QB is so valuable. They can save the team.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:21 am
  • Ramfan128 wrote:
    bigskydoc wrote:Rams will look good right up until the point they have to pay Goff, and they look to be setting themselves up fairly nicely for that too.

    TBH, I wasn't that sold on Goff when he was coming out of college. It will be interesting to see what happens when his rookie contract is up.

    I will be really interested to see what happens to the first team that decides to trade, or let walk, their franchise QB after his rookie deal is up. Is it possible that the right coaches can set up a system where an adequate QB, surrounded by an all-star cast, can make a run? It wouldn't surprise me to see the Rams give it a shot, maybe even the Eagles when you consider how their season went after their franchise guy went down.

    Crippling a team, to pay a QB who is merely good, doesn't seem like a recipe for success to me.



    I agree, and I too have been waiting for this to happen.

    I honestly thought the Seahawks should have done it, although in hindsight it's good that they didn't with the decline of Sherman and Chancellor.

    If it came down to keeping this entire team together minus Goff, that would be very, very tempting.


    Tempting? I wouldn't even hesitate. If all of the potential malcontents on defense keep their heads on straight, with that running game. I would trade that franchise qb for draft picks without thinking twice.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:03 am
  • Ramfan128 wrote:I'm still a little lukewarm on this trade - I assumed we would trade our first rounder, but after losing this years 2nd for a WR we didn't re-sign and now trading for a WR with only one year left...


    Supposedly the story is they wanted Cooks last year but didn't have a first so couldn't outbid the Patriots for him, and Watkins was just the fallback plan.

    TBF though, while I trust that McVay really badly wanted Cooks, I'm not entirely sure why, and this is the first move the Rams have made this offseason that I'm not really that into (I'm not that moved by the concern trolling over letting Ogletree go---teams move on from popular locker rooms guys who are getting overpaid all the time).

    I think my two issues with this move are:

    (1) I think Cooks is only marginally better than guys who don't require draft capital and only command half his salary.

    (2) There's a few OCs in the league -- McDaniels, Payton, Shanahan, McVay, and maybe the younger Gruden -- who can regularly make Tier 2-3 receivers look like Tier 1 receivers and Tier 4-7 receivers look like Tier 2-3 receivers.

    That's a short list of OCs who can do that, and so far half of them have had Cooks and shipped him off for other pieces. That's not a good sign.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:08 am
  • bigskydoc wrote:Rams will look good right up until the point they have to pay Goff, and they look to be setting themselves up fairly nicely for that too.

    TBH, I wasn't that sold on Goff when he was coming out of college. It will be interesting to see what happens when his rookie contract is up.

    I will be really interested to see what happens to the first team that decides to trade, or let walk, their franchise QB after his rookie deal is up. Is it possible that the right coaches can set up a system where an adequate QB, surrounded by an all-star cast, can make a run? It wouldn't surprise me to see the Rams give it a shot, maybe even the Eagles when you consider how their season went after their franchise guy went down.

    Crippling a team, to pay a QB who is merely good, doesn't seem like a recipe for success to me.


    Great post.

    IMO Goff was so awful in Year 1 and so pretty good in Year 2 that I think a lot of people aren't realizing how little McVay actually asked of him. There probably wasn't a more protected QB (in terms of scheming and not asking a lot) than Goff last year.

    I mean, he's only in year 2 and is ostensibly still developing but I still think it's VERY possible that his ceiling might be Alex Smith.

    And as we found out from Washington, if his ceiling is Alex Smith, come year four or five there's gonna be some team who will pay for the nose for a 28 year old Alex Smith just as Washington just did for a 33 year old Alex Smith.

    I'd *love it* if the Rams really trusted that their talent on that side of the ball is McVay much more than the QB, and rolled the dice on another QB while extracting value from Goff to do so.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:40 am
  • adeltaY wrote: That's why a Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Brees type QB is so valuable. They can save the team.


    I don't disagree, entirely. I do think that the Tier 1 QB salaries (except Brady) are crippling their teams, but then again, these QBs do tend to make those magical plays that save their teams. What about the next tier down? What about the Goff, Wentz, Cousins, Smith type QBs. (For now lets ignore exactly who belongs in which tier) Why break the bank for a good QB if you can build a solid system that supports pretty much any good QB, and feed good rookie QBs into that system?

    If I were Philly and LA Rams, I would be looking to draft replacement QBs this year then look to trade Wentz/ Goff next year. There is always some team that is willing to overpay for QB talent (cough, Osweiler, cough, Bradford, cough).

    Maybe it fails, maybe it doesn't. I'm hoping one of these teams tries it.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:41 pm
  • bigskydoc wrote:
    adeltaY wrote: That's why a Wilson, Rodgers, Brady, Brees type QB is so valuable. They can save the team.


    I don't disagree, entirely. I do think that the Tier 1 QB salaries (except Brady) are crippling their teams, but then again, these QBs do tend to make those magical plays that save their teams. What about the next tier down? What about the Goff, Wentz, Cousins, Smith type QBs. (For now lets ignore exactly who belongs in which tier) Why break the bank for a good QB if you can build a solid system that supports pretty much any good QB, and feed good rookie QBs into that system?

    If I were Philly and LA Rams, I would be looking to draft replacement QBs this year then look to trade Wentz/ Goff next year. There is always some team that is willing to overpay for QB talent (cough, Osweiler, cough, Bradford, cough).

    Maybe it fails, maybe it doesn't. I'm hoping one of these teams tries it.


    It would be interesting to see doc. I just think that with the randomness of the playoffs given each game is single elimination, having a QB that can bail out the team is very important, but it must be on top of a good system. Can't do whatever the seahawks were trying to do last year where we relied too heavily on Russ. Pats, Saints, Steelers all have good to great systems and QBs that can step up if something goes wrong. Packers are decent but rely too heavily on Rodgers IMO.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:43 pm
  • Popeyejones wrote:People acting like the Rams aren’t #2 in the NFL in cap room for 2019 (projected 90 million under, and only 1 million less than the Jets at #1) and #1 in cap room for 2020.

    They can pay everyone who balls out in their system, collect comp picks on the guys who don’t, and a lot of these guys are just transitionary players and aren’t even supposed to be long term pieces anyway (Whitworth, Talib, and Suh).

    The other neat thing about what they’re doing is these are all trades, so they’ve added a ton of talent at a low salary cost for 2018 and are still projected to nab two 3rd round comp picks in next year’s draft.


    Per overthecap:


    https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

    2019 what they'd have to pay these guys:

    Donald: (calculated market value: ~19.5 million)
    Cooks: ~14.8 million
    Suh: ~14.2 million
    Joyner: ~10.6 million
    Peters: ~10 million
    Talib: ~8 million
    Gurley: ~10 million
    Three starting offensive linemen tallying: ~10 million minimum
    Sam Shields: whatever his market value will be it will be higher than they'll be willing to pay

    However many role players, such as Tavon Austin, they want to keep. Ignoring them, they're already looking at, based on the above: Roughly 100 million dollars for 11 players.


    They are not going to be able to keep this team together. One to two seasons maximum. and then they'll have to pray that Goff can take a step up and be the reason the team wins rather than merely a contributor.

    Of course, they know that. They know that when they have to pay Goff, all bets are off. The team will collapse if Goff doesn't earn on the field what the market is going to demand they pay for him. We've seen it over and over again. If you are a contender with expensive pieces and a cheap QB, as soon as you pay the QB, half the time the team falls a part, because half the time the team was bringing up the QB rather than the other way around. That is why they are throwing everything in the pot now: they know the window may possibly be only two or three years.

    That's also why I'm so stoked as a 49er fan. The 49ers talent around Garoppolo is garbage. HE brought THEM up, which means when the 49ers finally run out of room to add new guys, the team isn't going to be spiraling down, because it's the QB that has made them winner the last half of the season, not the guys around him bringing him up.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:00 am
  • It is immensely entertaining that this off-season other teams fans are examining the Rams cap space for NEXT YEAR to criticize them.

    Was only last year's off-season that other teams fans were just repeating over and over how much the Rams sucked even though I kept saying - McVay. Watch McVay.

    Fun off-season. Oh how the times have changed.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:02 am
  • And yes, Niner fans - you should feel that way.

    The rest of your team around JGQ is garbage (well, you do have a few good pieces). I agree with you on that, and on what your team's future plans will be.

    As we all say about each other, let's see how it goes.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:00 am
  • RedAlice wrote:It is immensely entertaining that this off-season other teams fans are examining the Rams cap space for NEXT YEAR to criticize them.

    Was only last year's off-season that other teams fans were just repeating over and over how much the Rams sucked even though I kept saying - McVay. Watch McVay.

    Fun off-season. Oh how the times have changed.


    Well the thing is, even if McVay sucked (and how could he, being the one Shanahan pupil he thought highest of), the simple fact of Jeff Fiscccccchhher being fired bought the team at least three wins.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:21 am
  • I’m still shocked that Fisher couldn’t do better with the talent they gave him. Before the 2016 season started, I had the Rams pencilled in as competing for the NFCW crown. That prediction looked silly at the end of the season, but all the pieces were there, Fisher just couldn’t coach them.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:50 am
  • Rambitious wrote:
    Passepartout wrote:Hope he can make Goff go from dud to stud in LA.Good luck!


    Wow....
    A Pro Bowl QB is a dud... ??
    You do know Goff played in the Pro Bowl last year, ya?

    Jeff Saturday, the long-time former center of the Colts, was voted to the Pro Bowl in his final season (with the Packers) during which he sucked and was benched that season and replaced by Evan Dietrich-Smith. He even publicly told fans they got it wrong and shouldn't have voted for him: https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/12/27 ... f-saturday

    What's your point? Oh, I get it - that making the Pro Bowl means you're good. Sorry to disappoint, but you're confusing the Pro Bowl with making the AP's All-Pro team, which is the one that actually matters.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:46 pm
  • Vince Young played in the pro bowl once
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:35 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Rambitious wrote:
    Passepartout wrote:Hope he can make Goff go from dud to stud in LA.Good luck!


    Wow....
    A Pro Bowl QB is a dud... ??
    You do know Goff played in the Pro Bowl last year, ya?

    Jeff Saturday, the long-time former center of the Colts, was voted to the Pro Bowl in his final season (with the Packers) during which he sucked and was benched that season and replaced by Evan Dietrich-Smith. He even publicly told fans they got it wrong and shouldn't have voted for him: https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/12/27 ... f-saturday

    What's your point? Oh, I get it - that making the Pro Bowl means you're good. Sorry to disappoint, but you're confusing the Pro Bowl with making the AP's All-Pro team, which is the one that actually matters.


    Well to be fair Goff executed the offense well and had a 4 TD/INT ratio, 8.0 YPA, and a rating over 100 and he was the QB for the #1 ppg offense. Using one extreme example to debunk this specific case is a stretch. Also, making the All-Pro team is pretty hard as a QB, you have to be the best or second best that season.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:19 pm
  • adeltaY wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    Rambitious wrote:
    Passepartout wrote:Hope he can make Goff go from dud to stud in LA.Good luck!


    Wow....
    A Pro Bowl QB is a dud... ??
    You do know Goff played in the Pro Bowl last year, ya?

    Jeff Saturday, the long-time former center of the Colts, was voted to the Pro Bowl in his final season (with the Packers) during which he sucked and was benched that season and replaced by Evan Dietrich-Smith. He even publicly told fans they got it wrong and shouldn't have voted for him: https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/12/27 ... f-saturday

    What's your point? Oh, I get it - that making the Pro Bowl means you're good. Sorry to disappoint, but you're confusing the Pro Bowl with making the AP's All-Pro team, which is the one that actually matters.


    Well to be fair Goff executed the offense well and had a 4 TD/INT ratio, 8.0 YPA, and a rating over 100 and he was the QB for the #1 ppg offense. Using one extreme example to debunk this specific case is a stretch. Also, making the All-Pro team is pretty hard as a QB, you have to be the best or second best that season.



    Goff was not an all-pro in 2017
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:41 am
  • I know and didn't say he was. Just saying he wasn't necessarily undeserving of the pro bowl nod.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:12 am
  • Haven't seen anything out of Goff to suggest he will be worth the 30 plus million APY it will likely take to sign him to a long-term contract. At the same time, haven't seen anything to suggest he won't be, at least, the equivalent of Smith/Cousins/Carr/Flacco.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:19 am
  • I don't envision Goff ever being a top 5 QB however that's not exactly a bad thing.

    I can absolutely see him hovering around the 6th-10th best though. There's a lot of teams that would give their left leg for that, especially given his age.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:19 am
  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:2019 what they'd have to pay these guys:

    Donald: (calculated market value: ~19.5 million)
    Cooks: ~14.8 million
    Suh: ~14.2 million
    Joyner: ~10.6 million
    Peters: ~10 million
    Talib: ~8 million
    Gurley: ~10 million
    Three starting offensive linemen tallying: ~10 million minimum
    Sam Shields: whatever his market value will be it will be higher than they'll be willing to pay

    However many role players, such as Tavon Austin, they want to keep. Ignoring them, they're already looking at, based on the above: Roughly 100 million dollars for 11 players.


    They are not going to be able to keep this team together. One to two seasons maximum. and then they'll have to pray that Goff can take a step up and be the reason the team wins rather than merely a contributor.


    Two things:

    (1) Ignoring Tavon Austin isn't some kind of caveat. You're ignoring Austin because not even his mother believes he's going to get to see that contract through.

    (2) Roughly 100 million for 11 players sounds crazy, but next year they already have roughly 100 million in free cap room, so you're basically saying that they can keep their team together if they want to.

    And once you start factoring in that the dollar value on contracts often gets backloaded and that that the cap is going up by 10 million per year or so (if that continues, by the time these guys are really breaking the bank on their next deals the cap will be WELL north of 200 million) it's totally possible.

    It's like how 9ers fans constantly insisted that the Seahawks couldn't keep their team together because 9ers fans didn't really understand how operating during a rising cap era is really different than during a flat cap era.

    TBF the Seahawks are currently breaking up their team, but that's not because they HAVE TO, they're doing it because they want to, and for reasons that don't really have much to do with the salary cap.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:21 am
  • Re: Goff

    I know I'm one of many who has drawn questions to Goff's ability and argued that McVay put him on a low difficulty setting, but we also shouldn't take that TOO far.

    So, here's something that's true that will also be unpopular to admit:

    As of right now I don't think Goff has shown the ability to be a top QB in the NFL, but at the same time, last year he put up a season as a passer that's functionally equivalent to or better than five of Russell Wilson's six seasons in the NFL.

    That's not even remotely a knock on Wilson. It's an acknowledgement that Goff isn't entirely chopped meat either.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:22 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:That's not even remotely a knock on Wilson. It's an acknowledgement that Goff isn't entirely chopped meat either.

    Yeah, I'm with you, Popeye. I'm just tired of people equating Pro Bowl appearances to elite skill, lol. Have been for years...
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:24 am
  • Certainly an interesting trade as an 'all in' move. He's an excellent stretch the defense type of player and Goff wasn't asked to take many chances. Sorta surprised the Pats moved him on so quickly... very young, great resume so far, everything I read says he's an awesome locker room guy. Maybe they just didn't want to pay him and hope Hogan can do what he did + a first round pick?

    I just don't see this as a solid fit for what they traded away but we'll see.
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Re: Rams trade for Brandon Cooks
Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:51 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:2019 what they'd have to pay these guys:

    Donald: (calculated market value: ~19.5 million)
    Cooks: ~14.8 million
    Suh: ~14.2 million
    Joyner: ~10.6 million
    Peters: ~10 million
    Talib: ~8 million
    Gurley: ~10 million
    Three starting offensive linemen tallying: ~10 million minimum
    Sam Shields: whatever his market value will be it will be higher than they'll be willing to pay

    However many role players, such as Tavon Austin, they want to keep. Ignoring them, they're already looking at, based on the above: Roughly 100 million dollars for 11 players.


    They are not going to be able to keep this team together. One to two seasons maximum. and then they'll have to pray that Goff can take a step up and be the reason the team wins rather than merely a contributor.


    Two things:

    (1) Ignoring Tavon Austin isn't some kind of caveat. You're ignoring Austin because not even his mother believes he's going to get to see that contract through.

    (2) Roughly 100 million for 11 players sounds crazy, but next year they already have roughly 100 million in free cap room, so you're basically saying that they can keep their team together if they want to.

    And once you start factoring in that the dollar value on contracts often gets backloaded and that that the cap is going up by 10 million per year or so (if that continues, by the time these guys are really breaking the bank on their next deals the cap will be WELL north of 200 million) it's totally possible.

    It's like how 9ers fans constantly insisted that the Seahawks couldn't keep their team together because 9ers fans didn't really understand how operating during a rising cap era is really different than during a flat cap era.

    TBF the Seahawks are currently breaking up their team, but that's not because they HAVE TO, they're doing it because they want to, and for reasons that don't really have much to do with the salary cap.


    The golden rule for GM's is to get as close to 60% of the salary cap with your top 10 contracts. If you go over that 60%, the chances of a successful season are minimal at best. Too below 60% and the same applies.

    If the salary cap reaches $190M in 2019, 60% of that is $114,000,000.
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