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Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?

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Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Mon May 14, 2018 11:46 am
  • Career arcs are very similar.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Mon May 14, 2018 3:50 pm
  • Did nnamdi ever suffer a season ender?
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Mon May 14, 2018 7:57 pm
  • Sherman was elite for a lot longer than Nnamdi was (who I love as he went to my HS), but I think their absolute peaks are similar.

    Nnamdi got exposed moving to a different system, we'll see what happens with Sherman.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Mon May 14, 2018 8:49 pm
  • drrew wrote:Sherman was elite for a lot longer than Nnamdi was (who I love as he went to my HS), but I think their absolute peaks are similar.

    Nnamdi got exposed moving to a different system, we'll see what happens with Sherman.


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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Tue May 15, 2018 11:27 pm
  • I think Sherman was a lot better when healthy. Who knows what he will be now that he is older and has had some injuries?
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Thu May 17, 2018 5:37 am
  • Achilles is a tough injury to overcome. These days ACLs are actually easier.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Thu May 17, 2018 6:04 am
  • Seafan wrote:Achilles is a tough injury to overcome. These days ACLs are actually easier.



    Add on the fact that his home games will be played on grass.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Thu May 17, 2018 6:33 am
  • The issue with Sherman is that he was never an exceptional athlete, so he might not have much wiggle room as his athleticism naturally declines with age.

    FWIW I think it was last offseason in which I suggested that I thought his agility and change-of-direction might be starting to decline, and that I thought it could be showing up on tape a little bit as teams started attacking him more on the types of short routes that already tend to be open in a cover 3 scheme (they just weren't ever open with Sherman before because he's so good).

    The achilles is key in change of direction (and quick change of direction is often what causes an achilles tear to begin with), which means even if some people we're seeing ghosts in noting his declining in change of direction, it's definitely something to watch out for now.

    To be clear I still think it's kinda nutty that the Seahawks cut him and given the contract and where the 9ers are in their cap development I'm ecstatic he's on the 9ers now, but there's ABSOLUTELY a risk here which can't be ignored.

    The measuring stick here, however, is that he's getting paid as the 18th best non-rookie contract CB in the NFL right now.
    He doesn't need to come out and be a Top 3 CB in the NFL this year. He's not getting paid that way. The 9ers are rolling the dice that he'll be better than the 19h best non-rookie cornerback in the NFL, so a fair amount of decline for him is already built into the projection.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Thu May 17, 2018 7:18 am
  • I’ve always wondered about Sherman’s abilities minus Kam and Earl behind him, I guess we’ll see how he performs without 2 outstanding Safeties behind him.


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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Thu May 17, 2018 7:54 am
  • Not trying to sound like Sour Grapes, but I think he's going to awful in Santa Clara, at least compared to what we have seen from him. Never was a fast guy, and I see him getting beat a lot this year, especially coming off the injury.
    But, he'll tell everyone it isn't his fault :lol:
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Thu May 17, 2018 7:58 am
  • I really hope he does well down there and makes a full recovery. This way the Niner fans cant say anything about being injured when ADB torches him.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Thu May 17, 2018 8:00 am
  • Against the Rams and Cards, absolutely.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Thu May 17, 2018 12:43 pm
  • I sincerely hope Sherman recovers from the injuries/surgeries, but I have a hard time seeing him get back to the level of play he was known for in Seattle. He was never a plus or even average athlete, so it's going to be an uphill battle getting right and having the same presence on the field.

    I'll be honest, I didn't have hard feelings or find Sherm THAT annoying until he left. Yes, the situation with him making embarrassing comments towards a journalist was a bad look, among other things, but now him and Bennett can kick rocks for all I care. They've got the vibrato and they'll talk out their neck when they think they're in the right or they're impervious, but they're mentally soft and their butthurt comments after being shown the door have displayed that.

    Not to tie this back to the corpse of a horse, but it's pretty clear that the guys we all thought the team was leaning on for leadership could never truly let 49 go.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Thu May 17, 2018 3:14 pm
  • Nnamdi was the best man to man cover guy in the game when he signed with the Eagles. The Eagles brought him over into their defensive dysfunction and asked him to play in a zone scheme (primarily) and he just couldn't and for whatever reason, the Eagles refused to adapt to him despite giving him the contract they did after seeing what he excelled at.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Thu May 17, 2018 9:54 pm
  • I guess I look at this a bit differently.

    Since he never relied on A+ athleticism and a lot of his game was smarts, I tend to think he might be less in danger of physical decline. He's a physical, zone coverage defender and that's EXACTLY what he'll be asked to be again.

    I'm not expecting Sherman in his prime, but my guess is he'll be a solid corner.

    As for what another poster said about not having great safeties in SF now...

    ...I'm not going to say they are anything close to Thomas and Chancellor, but don't sleep on Adrian Colbert and Jaquiski Tartt. :D
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Fri May 18, 2018 1:01 am
  • Yeah Tartt and Colbert actually played very well last season, Colbert surprisingly since he was a 7th round pick corner converted to free safety. Has the range to play single high safety and hes a ball hawk similar skills to Earl Thomas, obviously not the same player though but he fits that single high free safety perfectly. Even if Sherman never sees the field, hes still good to have around to mentor the players around him who are similar skill set and playing in the exact same scheme.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Fri May 18, 2018 5:00 am
  • chris98251 wrote:
    drrew wrote:Sherman was elite for a lot longer than Nnamdi was (who I love as he went to my HS), but I think their absolute peaks are similar.

    Nnamdi got exposed moving to a different system, we'll see what happens with Sherman.


    They use our system.


    They don't have Earl Thomas. They can use the system, they don't have the type of players the Seahawks do to execute it. It'll be interesting to see how not having Thomas back there anymore impacts Sherman. If you look it his work objectively, Sherman does get beat quite a bit. He's successful with the "bigger" type of receivers like Bryant, etc but it's the small TY Hilton types that burn him.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Fri May 18, 2018 5:13 am
  • hawkfan68 wrote: If you look it his work objectively, Sherman does get beat quite a bit.


    :?: :?:

    All of the objective looks at his work say the exact opposite.

    Other stuff:

    1) Worth considering is that Sherman was *perfect* for the Seahawks scheme circa 2012-13. Even the Seahawks have radically departed from that scheme, both because teams have gotten better at attacking it over time (which means more man coverage), and because the NFL nerfed it by starting to enforce the 5 yard contact rule (which means playing off instead of bump when in cover 3). Long story short, the scheme that Sherman MOST excelled in isn't as viable as it was even when he was at his peak.

    2) I think Thomas is overall a better player than Sherman, but people are over-attributing Sherman's talent to Thomas. For years Thomas could shade to the other side in his deep 3rd and make a very mediocre cast of CBs on the other side look better than they are because Sherman could be left to his island on his 3rd (we know all these guys aren't nearly as good as we thought they were b/c (1) the Hawks kept on letting them walk and (2) they kept on flaming out the instant they did walk). In that scheme the true challenge of of Thomas' job is not getting split between the two seams, and he's exceptional because not only can he do that, but he's also fast and reactive enough to help out over the top on the other two-thirds. Sherman didn't need this help, though, which is what allowed Thomas to shade a couple steps, and really only be responsible from the left seam through the right sideline.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Fri May 18, 2018 5:32 am
  • Can't wait to see Baldwin torch him :lol:
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Fri May 18, 2018 5:39 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Can't wait to see Baldwin torch him :lol:


    9ers fans are all into "Can't wait til he picks off Wilson and tell's him 'you suck!' again." :lol:

    It will be fun to see what happens, but even more fun IMO will be the week leading up to it, and the chance of this re-instituting that brief rivalry b/n the 9ers and Hawks a little bit again. :2thumbs:
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Fri May 18, 2018 7:01 am
  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    drrew wrote:Sherman was elite for a lot longer than Nnamdi was (who I love as he went to my HS), but I think their absolute peaks are similar.

    Nnamdi got exposed moving to a different system, we'll see what happens with Sherman.


    They use our system.


    They don't have Earl Thomas. They can use the system, they don't have the type of players the Seahawks do to execute it. It'll be interesting to see how not having Thomas back there anymore impacts Sherman. If you look it his work objectively, Sherman does get beat quite a bit. He's successful with the "bigger" type of receivers like Bryant, etc but it's the small TY Hilton types that burn him.


    I don't think anyone in SF is expecting the same D in SF that was in Seattle during that run.

    I don't think anyone in SF is expecting Adrian Colbert (who was a really nice find last year) to be Earl Thomas.

    However, not being one of the best players ever at the position doesn't mean they can't be effective with different personnel.

    The Jags run the same system and had one of the best Ds in the NFL without Earl Thomas. Now they have 2 great CBs, lightning fast LBs and a great pass rush, but my point is that the system works with different personnel.

    I'm not expecting the Seahawks circa 2012 or the Jags circa 2017...but I do think Sherman can be very effective.

    All the Niners are really missing on D right now is another LB (although not sure on that one...might see Foster, Smith, Warner or Foster, Smith, Harold...this of course assumes Foster is cleared) and a true Leo (Its hard for me to call it that. I always want to call it an Elephant).
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Fri May 18, 2018 7:34 am
  • You're right Popeye, the rivalry will come back a little now.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Fri May 18, 2018 1:02 pm
  • Our system if anyone has forgotten is also about using a players strengths to enhance what the system tries to do and adapt accordingly, this is what makes Pete so damn good and dangerous, remember the Bandit package in Chicago when we had only one LB available for that game if I remember correctly.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Sat May 19, 2018 4:31 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    The Jags run the same system and had one of the best Ds in the NFL without Earl Thomas. Now they have 2 great CBs, lightning fast LBs and a great pass rush, but my point is that the system works with different personnel.



    Not super-closely related to the Sherm talk, but even with the shutdown CBs, elite pass rush and LBs, the Jags were still susceptible to the deep pass when facing good QBs because their safeties weren't that great. Also, I noticed that many of the big runs they gave up were because their safeties were out of position at the second/third level to make the tackle. As badly as they did smother us most of the game, Wilson was able to throw three deep TD passes against them and Ben and the Steelers had great success with the deep ball against them in the playoff game, despite taking the L ultimately. Brady was also able to exploit them, but not to the same extent. Also, the Jags run a lot more Cover 4 than we did/do. Regardless, their D was more than good enough to win the SB, so I get your point overall.

    To hawkfan2018, Sherman didn't objectively get beat quite often. I'm not sure where you're getting that. He did get beat, but at a much lower rate than most CBs. This is a long read, but I haven't seen anyone else chart every single snap Sherman had in coverage.

    http://presnapreads.com/2014/02/19/rich ... dict-2014/
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Sat May 19, 2018 4:32 pm
  • drrew wrote:Sherman was elite for a lot longer than Nnamdi was (who I love as he went to my HS), but I think their absolute peaks are similar.

    Nnamdi got exposed moving to a different system, we'll see what happens with Sherman.

    As chris pointed out, the 49ers have completely copied the Seahawks system. They have a former Seahawks coaching staff member as their DC (I believe he was Defensive Quality Control, before following the Seahawks D-coordinator to Jacksonville, who also copied the Seahawks system).
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Sat May 19, 2018 4:35 pm
  • AKNFidel wrote:I’ve always wondered about Sherman’s abilities minus Kam and Earl behind him, I guess we’ll see how he performs without 2 outstanding Safeties behind him.


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    For a Seahawks fan I'm surprised you don't know that Kam usually plays in the box, not behind Sherman. In Pete Caroll's system, the cornerbacks roles are often almost a blend between CB and safety. They don't usually have anyone "behind" them, just someone covering the deep middle for them (Earl Thomas, who is probably the best in the league at it).
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Sat May 19, 2018 4:39 pm
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Can't wait to see Baldwin torch him :lol:

    IMHO it's less about Baldwin and more about Wilson. I'm not saying Baldwin isn't good. I'm saying he's not as good as people think, because NO ONE can continually lock someone down for 5 seconds or more, like you have to do when you're playing against Russell Wilson.

    As a side note, I'm continually surprised at how underrated he is on this board among Seahawk fans. Yeah, it's true he's not the best at running a progression offense and keeping everything on time, but his scrambling ability is Hall of Fame worthy. It puts so much pressure on a defense that any weakness his height brings (which sometimes causes problems in the pocket for him) is absolutely mitigated and then some.

    Not to mention he has a golden arm.



    So yeah, Baldwin is good. But he wouldn't be what he is without Wilson's ability to extend the play and his tremendous accuracy and touch, particularly on deep balls.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Sat May 19, 2018 9:30 pm
  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Can't wait to see Baldwin torch him :lol:

    IMHO it's less about Baldwin and more about Wilson. I'm not saying Baldwin isn't good. I'm saying he's not as good as people think, because NO ONE can continually lock someone down for 5 seconds or more, like you have to do when you're playing against Russell Wilson.

    As a side note, I'm continually surprised at how underrated he is on this board among Seahawk fans. Yeah, it's true he's not the best at running a progression offense and keeping everything on time, but his scrambling ability is Hall of Fame worthy. It puts so much pressure on a defense that any weakness his height brings (which sometimes causes problems in the pocket for him) is absolutely mitigated and then some.

    Not to mention he has a golden arm.



    So yeah, Baldwin is good. But he wouldn't be what he is without Wilson's ability to extend the play and his tremendous accuracy and touch, particularly on deep balls.

    You really need to watch Baldwin get off the line, he is really good, if Wilson could throw on time it would be almost Largent like, whom by the way was teaching him the technique for a while.

    Baldwins ability to follow the scramble drill and find holes is a whole different type of talent.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Sat May 19, 2018 11:26 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    SoulfishHawk wrote:Can't wait to see Baldwin torch him :lol:

    IMHO it's less about Baldwin and more about Wilson. I'm not saying Baldwin isn't good. I'm saying he's not as good as people think, because NO ONE can continually lock someone down for 5 seconds or more, like you have to do when you're playing against Russell Wilson.

    As a side note, I'm continually surprised at how underrated he is on this board among Seahawk fans. Yeah, it's true he's not the best at running a progression offense and keeping everything on time, but his scrambling ability is Hall of Fame worthy. It puts so much pressure on a defense that any weakness his height brings (which sometimes causes problems in the pocket for him) is absolutely mitigated and then some.

    Not to mention he has a golden arm.



    So yeah, Baldwin is good. But he wouldn't be what he is without Wilson's ability to extend the play and his tremendous accuracy and touch, particularly on deep balls.

    You really need to watch Baldwin get off the line, he is really good, if Wilson could throw on time it would be almost Largent like, whom by the way was teaching him the technique for a while.

    Baldwins ability to follow the scramble drill and find holes is a whole different type of talent.


    Yeah, Baldwin would be even better in a timing based system, his release and route running are top tier even if his athleticism isn't.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Sun May 20, 2018 12:20 am
  • Baldwin would be insane in Shanahan's offense
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Sun May 20, 2018 8:59 pm
  • Maybe you guys are right, but Wilson's abilities behind the line of scrimmage are jaw dropping, and his arc and touch are top notch, and I can't see how that doesn't help every WR he has, especially his primary one.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Mon May 21, 2018 4:08 am
  • You'd be surprised how many Hawks fans on here think Russ doesn't throw a good deep ball :roll:
    Though he pretty much can do nothing right as far as they see it. He's only the best QB in team history.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Mon May 21, 2018 12:13 pm
  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:Maybe you guys are right, but Wilson's abilities behind the line of scrimmage are jaw dropping, and his arc and touch are top notch, and I can't see how that doesn't help every WR he has, especially his primary one.


    It does help in some ways, but the way the offense is designed and the fact that Wilson does miss some quick reads probably hurts Baldwin more than it helps him. If he was in the type of system Brees, Brady, Stafford, or Rivers play in, he would be a monster.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Tue May 22, 2018 12:33 am
  • SoulfishHawk wrote:You'd be surprised how many Hawks fans on here think Russ doesn't throw a good deep ball :roll:
    Though he pretty much can do nothing right as far as they see it. He's only the best QB in team history.


    Wilson's deep ball has single handedly kept him a good QB all by itself. Nothing makes me more nervous than Wilson cranking one deep when safety coverage is not nearby.

    If those Hawk fans claiming Wilson is top 5 but no good deep ball, they don't know their QB that well.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Tue May 22, 2018 12:39 am
  • Here's the deal with Sherman:

    I always thought he was a good corner, but a lot of that "best in the league" narrative I felt was being on the Seahawks (with Earl backing him up and Cliff & Michael hurrying the QB) and of course what some of us felt was questionable hand play in coverage.

    It will be some time before Sherman gets that level of support again and I will be very curious how he uses his hands in coverage this year.

    My expectations from him are good but not sky high. I think his overall package with his leadership will count quite a bit in improving the pass defense.

    If however he plays like a stud this season, there will be no way to deny his greatness.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Thu May 24, 2018 4:10 am
  • Baldwin’s primary assets are his route running and consistency. He’s a really good player.

    Over the years I’ve waxed poetic on the few areas in Wilson’s game in which I think he still has room for improvement, but the deep ball just isn’t one of them. Anyone who watches football and criticizes Wilson’s deep ball just doesn’t know what they’re watching.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Thu May 24, 2018 10:17 am
  • Nnamdi didn’t have Earl Thomas, but then at his prime Nnamdi didn’t need help. He was an excellent man on man shut down cover.


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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:31 am
  • NINEster wrote:Here's the deal with Sherman:

    I always thought he was a good corner, but a lot of that "best in the league" narrative I felt was being on the Seahawks (with Earl backing him up and Cliff & Michael hurrying the QB) and of course what some of us felt was questionable hand play in coverage.

    It will be some time before Sherman gets that level of support again and I will be very curious how he uses his hands in coverage this year.

    My expectations from him are good but not sky high. I think his overall package with his leadership will count quite a bit in improving the pass defense.

    If however he plays like a stud this season, there will be no way to deny his greatness.

    Good to see Sherm running full speed and taking on the leadership. It appears he has bought into the niners so he seems less of a malcontent. Young guys will obviously appreciate his knowledge and confidence.
    IMO, besides his size his best attributes has always been a willingness to anticipate/challenge a pass and his speed to recover after being out of position as he does get turned around and will jump routes. Whether he can get back to form depends on his achilles tendon and any potential complications following surgery.
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Re: Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?
Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:21 pm
  • Popeyejones wrote:Baldwin’s primary assets are his route running and consistency. He’s a really good player.

    Over the years I’ve waxed poetic on the few areas in Wilson’s game in which I think he still has room for improvement, but the deep ball just isn’t one of them. Anyone who watches football and criticizes Wilson’s deep ball just doesn’t know what they’re watching.


    Yet I've seen our own fans here complain Wilson's deep ball is just "chuck and pray" :pukeface:

    On topic... Saw a vid of Sherm at OTAs talking to Witherspoon and the other corners. Felt WRONG
    adeltaY
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