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New roughing the passer rule worse than helmet rule?

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  • Going off the GB game and the fact that a ton of these calls happened last week, I find the roughing rule modification more worrisome. Some of the hits on the QB look perfectly clean. Meanwhile, the new helmet to helmet rule seems to get called very rarely.
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  • Refs can easily control the games even more now.
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  • rcaido wrote:Refs can easily control the games even more now.


    It is known.
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  • It's absolutely horrific some of these calls. If Ditka and Butkas were dead surely they would be rolling over in their graves.
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  • I still think the helmet rule is worse.
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  • We're a season away from QB's wearing the red practice jerseys and can only be tackled by 2 hand touch or else it's an automatic touchdown and that player is kicked out of the NFL.
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  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:I still think the helmet rule is worse.


    IMHO, both are equally bad rules.

    Actually the rules as written aren’t all that bad, what’s bad is, how subjective they are.

    It’s 100% up to the striped shirt dudes, if they call it or not.

    It isn’t being/not being called in uniform fashion across the board.

    Both rules make it very easy to effectively alter a drive that easily could alter the outcome of a game.

    Many would argue that the NFL has no interest in effecting the outcome of games.
    I won’t argue that, I simply say “horse shit”, end of argument for me.

    The new rules are too subjective IMHO.
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  • The Erin Rodgers rule is brutal...even Clay Matthew's is complaining about it.
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  • Funny how when Erin gets injured, a new rule comes out. If Wilson was to get injured, they'd probably give the player who hurt him some type of courage award or medal of honor.
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Funny how when Erin gets injured, a new rule comes out. If Wilson was to get injured, they'd probably give the player who hurt him some type of courage award or medal of honor.


    I doubt it... Cam is the one who gets the crap beat out of him and no flags because he's "big enough to handle it"
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  • SoulfishHawk wrote:Funny how when Erin gets injured, a new rule comes out. If Wilson was to get injured, they'd probably give the player who hurt him some type of courage award or medal of honor.



    Wilson did get injured and they changed the rule to be if he is outside the pocket and running he can be hit, I think someone got flagged for roughing or something that year, They stated that a Read Option guy handcuffs the defense from tackling until it is too late.
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  • Its gotten soft. I understand the cte fears but pretty soon it wont be tackle footbal and no one will tune in.
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  • On a side note it's great to see Rodgers get screwed out of a win by his own rule :lol:
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  • Here's a possible solution: Stop throwing flags on personal fouls. Why negate a play because of a foul that may or may not have affected the result of the play? If Clay didn't "slam" Cousins to the ground, does that pass not get picked off?

    Not only would this restore some integrity back in the game, but it would speed it up. Review all the illegal hits AFTER the game when officials can make better decisions about them rather than relying on a ref making a split second decision in real time about something he saw from his particular vantage point.
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  • You wouldn't want depth players sent in to target starters "Karate Kid" style with no immediate repercussions.

    I do agree the Aaron Rodgers rule was poorly conceived and has been very poorly implemented this season.
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  • AgentDib wrote:You wouldn't want depth players sent in to target starters "Karate Kid" style with no immediate repercussions.


    If they wanted to do that, I don't think a 15 yard penalty would deter them. Right?
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  • What they really need to do is eliminate these protect everyone from everything rules and let the guys play, sure there will be injuries but putting a do not touch sign on WR's trying to catch, and QB's doing anything just makes them bigger targets for when you can hit them clean, but that falls under unsportsmanlike now it seems. They have given Officials to much control of how games can be played and the outcomes, they were suppose to be there to manage the flow and rules of the game, not interpret situational circumstances that can be looked at multiple ways without consistency.


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  • I have no idea where the NFL goes after this nonsense.

    Clay hits the QB:

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    Here is what the ref said on why he threw the flag:

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    If the ref looked at the replay and still made this statement, then the ref is outright lying. He made a bad call and he would have been better off just admitting it. Regardless of who or what team this is for/against, it is ruining football.
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  • When did he pick him up? The QB didn't move up one inch!
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  • A very simple solution would be to make penalties reviewable. True, it might slow down the game some, but some of these calls are complete crap and can have a HUGE impact on the game, such as that Clay Matthews "penalty" last week that extended the game when it was essentially over.
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  • I agree the quarterback did not get picked up. But what the ref saw was his feet leaving the playing surface and automatically assumed that he was picked up and thrown. What he failed to see was the throwing motion put his momentum on his forward/left foot and that raised his foot up when he was arm tackled to the ground. There was less than half a second to determine whether he/packer could change his movement and avoid the penalty/false call. Yup. Football/american style, is becoming more a lack of entertainment value for what us peons are paying for. I dont know the answer.....
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  • nategreat wrote:A very simple solution would be to make penalties reviewable. True, it might slow down the game some, but some of these calls are complete crap and can have a HUGE impact on the game, such as that Clay Matthews "penalty" last week that extended the game when it was essentially over.



    This. If they really want to clean up this part of the game, then I would rather they turn it into the targeting rule in college - call it and then review it - although instead of ejections just make it a hefty fine.
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  • Ramfan128 wrote:
    nategreat wrote:A very simple solution would be to make penalties reviewable. True, it might slow down the game some, but some of these calls are complete crap and can have a HUGE impact on the game, such as that Clay Matthews "penalty" last week that extended the game when it was essentially over.



    This. If they really want to clean up this part of the game, then I would rather they turn it into the targeting rule in college - call it and then review it - although instead of ejections just make it a hefty fine.


    I like my idea better. You get the benefits of the above + not slowing down the game.
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  • It’s a stupid rule, as are a lot of the NFL’s “new rules”.

    They will change or eliminate this rule as more of the legacy teams get screwed by it.
    GB has gotten bit by it twice already. If it starts costing the Cheatriots, Stealers, Cowgirls games they may look into modifying it this year.
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  • Matthews flagged again for sacking the QB.

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  • PackerNation wrote:Matthews flagged again for sacking the QB.

    You guys have benefited from that for YEARS from having Erin Rodgers BEFORE it was an official rule change; so pardon me if I don't feel bad for you.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    PackerNation wrote:Matthews flagged again for sacking the QB.

    You guys have benefited from that for YEARS from having Erin Rodgers BEFORE it was an official rule change; so pardon me if I don't feel bad for you.


    Remember that bull$#!+ facemask call against the Lions a couple years ago? Rodgers threw a game-winning Hail Mary on an untimed down. The Packers can rot in hell with their pity party for all I care.
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  • Loving how the Erin rule is hurting Matthew's and the Packers.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    PackerNation wrote:Matthews flagged again for sacking the QB.

    You guys have benefited from that for YEARS from having Erin Rodgers BEFORE it was an official rule change; so pardon me if I don't feel bad for you.


    Feel sorry for the NFL and how it is being ruined with these horrible rules/calls.
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  • How come Clay Matthews cant figure it out. Nearly cost his team in game 1. cost them game 2. and another today?

    Maybe the rules are just ruining Clay Matthews career.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:How come Clay Matthews cant figure it out. Nearly cost his team in game 1. cost them game 2. and another today?

    Maybe the rules are just ruining Clay Matthews career.


    Or maybe they aren't really penalties.... ?
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  • PackerNation wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:How come Clay Matthews cant figure it out. Nearly cost his team in game 1. cost them game 2. and another today?

    Maybe the rules are just ruining Clay Matthews career.


    Or maybe they aren't really penalties.... ?


    they clearly are.

    Someone just needs to teach it to Clay
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    PackerNation wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:How come Clay Matthews cant figure it out. Nearly cost his team in game 1. cost them game 2. and another today?

    Maybe the rules are just ruining Clay Matthews career.


    Or maybe they aren't really penalties.... ?


    they clearly are.

    Someone just needs to teach it to Clay


    Today, he could easily have swung his weight to pull Alex Smith down. Instead, he drove him, knowing full well what the ref would do. Bad rules don't mean you can't play within them. It's on Clay Matthews to adapt. Remember, Roy Williams went from All-Pro to liability when they banned the horse collar.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    PackerNation wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:How come Clay Matthews cant figure it out. Nearly cost his team in game 1. cost them game 2. and another today?

    Maybe the rules are just ruining Clay Matthews career.


    Or maybe they aren't really penalties.... ?


    they clearly are.

    Someone just needs to teach it to Clay


    I don't think so, but we can just disagree.
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  • you think its a coincidence the same player has been called for it 3 games in a row?

    It's not a question of whether you think the rule is a good one, but whether the new rule is being enforced correctly.

    Tacklers cannot throw their weight on a QB. Clay did that at the end of the Bears game. Thought the Vikings one was close (i hate the vikings so wanted was upset about that one). Didn't see this last one.

    I have no issue with the rule. Tacklers will adjust over time. It's better to have healthy QBs in the league to be honest.
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  • Mindsink wrote:
    AgentDib wrote:You wouldn't want depth players sent in to target starters "Karate Kid" style with no immediate repercussions.


    If they wanted to do that, I don't think a 15 yard penalty would deter them. Right?

    Uhm.... what? Actually, yes, a 15-yard penalty that leads to an automatic first down and has an impact on the game is a huge deterrent.

    Imagine it's the Super Bowl and your "personal fouls aren't called until after the game" change is implemented. There would be massive cheap shots after every pass attempt if there weren't any consequences until after the game.
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  • I have a lot of problems with them making form tackling a roughing the passer rule when it's only on the QB, if form tackling is so bad then every tackle should be a unsportsmanlike penalty then.


    NFL has went way to far to the extreme. Body slamming ok, momentum from form tackling bullshit.
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  • Both rules are equally subjective.
    Both rules are not enforced/enforced equally.

    Both rules are equally stupid in my “old school” opinion.

    Two fans, as well as two refs can watch the same exact play, and have totally opposite views.

    I don’t necessarily hate the rules, I hate how they are so subjective, and won’t be called, or not called equally.

    Worse even than PI, or catch/no catch.
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  • PackerNation wrote:Feel sorry for the NFL and how it is being ruined with these horrible rules/calls.

    You don't get it. Most of the rest of the NFL's fans are laughing at you guys, because now Erin Rodgers doesn't have as big of an officiating advantage as he used to.
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  • PackerNation wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    PackerNation wrote:Matthews flagged again for sacking the QB.

    You guys have benefited from that for YEARS from having Erin Rodgers BEFORE it was an official rule change; so pardon me if I don't feel bad for you.


    Feel sorry for the NFL and how it is being ruined with these horrible rules/calls.


    It's partly smug prima donna Erin's fault that the stupid rule is in place in the first place.

    At least now you know how the "rest of the NFL" feels whenever they play the Packers and Erin gets flags thrown at his feet whenever a defender has the audacity to look his direction.

    Karma.
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  • Maulbert wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    PackerNation wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:How come Clay Matthews cant figure it out. Nearly cost his team in game 1. cost them game 2. and another today?

    Maybe the rules are just ruining Clay Matthews career.


    Or maybe they aren't really penalties.... ?


    they clearly are.

    Someone just needs to teach it to Clay


    Today, he could easily have swung his weight to pull Alex Smith down. Instead, he drove him, knowing full well what the ref would do. Bad rules don't mean you can't play within them. It's on Clay Matthews to adapt. Remember, Roy Williams went from All-Pro to liability when they banned the horse collar.


    That's what I saw on the replay.
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  • The rule sucks. It can get anyone at any time. Being happy that it's got Clay Matthews twice seems like we're missing the bigger picture. What if it costs us a game?
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    PackerNation wrote:Feel sorry for the NFL and how it is being ruined with these horrible rules/calls.

    You don't get it. Most of the rest of the NFL's fans are laughing at you guys, because now Erin Rodgers doesn't have as big of an officiating advantage as he used to.


    No, you don't get it. Your childish insults and hammering of the Packers because you don't like them is blinding you to the fact that this can be a very big problem in the NFL when it comes to these types of calls. It may have cost Green Bay a critical divisional game against the Vikings but it could very well be another team next week. Or a critical call in the playoffs that sends a team home for such a foolishly called penalty.

    It's wrecking football. There is little to no chance that Clay Matthews can ease up after he blows through the lineman to make a hit on the QB and not keep from landing on him. It's a lousy rule and while QB's should be afforded some protection, they cannot be expected to ever take some hits.

    If you knew anything about football, you would also know that they are throwing flags on players exactly how they are taught to tackle and wrap up ball carriers.
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  • PackerNation wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    PackerNation wrote:Feel sorry for the NFL and how it is being ruined with these horrible rules/calls.

    You don't get it. Most of the rest of the NFL's fans are laughing at you guys, because now Erin Rodgers doesn't have as big of an officiating advantage as he used to.


    No, you don't get it. Your childish insults and hammering of the Packers because you don't like them is blinding you to the fact that this can be a very big problem in the NFL when it comes to these types of calls. It may have cost Green Bay a critical divisional game against the Vikings but it could very well be another team next week. Or a critical call in the playoffs that sends a team home for such a foolishly called penalty.

    It's wrecking football. There is little to no chance that Clay Matthews can ease up after he blows through the lineman to make a hit on the QB and not keep from landing on him. It's a lousy rule and while QB's should be afforded some protection, they cannot be expected to ever take some hits.

    If you knew anything about football, you would also know that they are throwing flags on players exactly how they are taught to tackle and wrap up ball carriers.


    As the rules change, players have to adapt or they become irrelevant whiners. Based on the rule, this was a good officiating call. However, I do agree that the rule provides too much leeway for the zebras to control the game. Maybe Clay should learn some rugby tackling techniques. He can hit just as hard, roll his way through the tackle and not get penalized.
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  • PackerNation wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    PackerNation wrote:Feel sorry for the NFL and how it is being ruined with these horrible rules/calls.

    You don't get it. Most of the rest of the NFL's fans are laughing at you guys, because now Erin Rodgers doesn't have as big of an officiating advantage as he used to.


    No, you don't get it. Your childish insults and hammering of the Packers because you don't like them is blinding you to the fact that this can be a very big problem in the NFL when it comes to these types of calls. It may have cost Green Bay a critical divisional game against the Vikings but it could very well be another team next week. Or a critical call in the playoffs that sends a team home for such a foolishly called penalty.

    It's wrecking football. There is little to no chance that Clay Matthews can ease up after he blows through the lineman to make a hit on the QB and not keep from landing on him. It's a lousy rule and while QB's should be afforded some protection, they cannot be expected to ever take some hits.

    If you knew anything about football, you would also know that they are throwing flags on players exactly how they are taught to tackle and wrap up ball carriers.


    Referee Craig Wrolstad on Matthews penalty in pool report: "So, that's not a new rule. I had judged that the defender landed on the quarterback when he was tackling him, with most or all of his body weight, and that's not allowed. If you do that, it's roughing the passer."


    Clay Matthews doesn't know how to tackle. If he knew anything about tackling he wouldn't have got the flag. You clearly don't understand the rule as well.

    Also, why would a change in tackling to protect the NFL's best asset be "ruining" the game. As it is, the age range of those that watch the game is getting younger. They are not old men with antiquated beliefs about sport. Younger fans want their stars on the field, not crippled, concussed or worse.

    So... the fantasy football crowd will care less in the long run about tackling rules if their favorite players aren't being carted off the field.

    It's unnerving people can't see that. The inherent dangers of playing football are difficult enough. Making changes to the game to try and mitigate these issues is the only way this game survives.

    It's understandable you can't grasp that. Packers fans still want it to be the 1960s
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  • PackerNation,

    My .NET brethren have said all that needs to be said in response to your reply to me, so I'll let that stand. :)

    You're blind to the irony of this and you don't even realize it after it has been pointed out to you. A common trait I noticed in many of the natives from my time in Wisconsin, I fear.
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  • So he tries to alter his tackling technique as not to injure the qb, and ends up with a season ending injury himself? Damn.
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  • I still don't know how you are supposed to not land on the QB when you tackle him like RW was tackled yesterday. I hate the Cowboys, but man that call was an absolute joke. That should have been a sack, and we should have been punting.
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