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Minn QB Kirk Cousins: Leader of Men or Just Another Stiff?

Discuss any and all NFL-related topics. Ex-Seahawks fall into NFL topics. LANGUAGE: PG-13
  • Is Kirk Cousins an overpaid, unathletic stiff of a QB who the Vikings were idiots to give a rich contract to?
    Or is Cousins a Leader of Men who will lead the Vikings to Infinity... and Beyond! Well, OK, Playoffs Round 1 and Beyond.

    In a Gardner Minshew thread, Minshew was compared to a list of stiff QBs that included Kirk Cousins, and I opined that Cousins is a terrific QB with real leadership qualities, and not a stiff. That opinion met some resistance (Uncle Si), so rather than pollute the Minshew thread, it seemed Cousins deserved his own thread, pro and con. I'll do my best after each Vikings game to stop in here and break down Cousins' day, either gloat or eat crow, and I hope, wind up with some interesting and educational posts over the rest of the season.

    I'm offering this thread as an ongoing place to discuss the merits and weaknesses of Kirk Cousins, particularly his leadership in playing at a high level and inspiring his team to play at a high level, willing his team to victory, in the way we've been watching Russell do for years.

    Why this interest in Kirk Cousins? Many of you already know that Kirk Cousins and Russell Wilson have a somewhat intertwined history, going back to their college days when they played against each other, Cousins at Michigan State, Wilson at Wisconsin. Their head-to-head college record is 1-1, Cousins winning it for MSU on a last-second Hail Mary, and Wilson winning the Big 10 Championship game on a last-minute game-winning drive. They are also 1-1 against each other in the NFL, with Cousins leading an injury-decimated Redskins squad to victory in Seattle a few years ago, with a last-minute deep pass completion and subsequent Vikings TD run.

    Here is a good article from the Vikings' website that covers some of the history between Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins. https://www.vikings.com/news/cousins-wi ... -mary-pass

    First, what this thread is NOT intended to be:
    - It's NOT a comparison of Russell Wilson or Kirk Cousins as players, of "which is the better player". In my mind, Wilson is clearly the overall better athlete and better player. But, it is closer than people might think.

    - It's NOT a comparison of whether Wilson or Cousins is a better "Leader" in terms of elevating the play and focus of the players around them. IMO, both are fantastic leaders, who do precisely that, elevate the play of those around them. I'm pretty certain about Wilson's *amazing* leadership, having seen it a lot, but honestly, I've seen less of Cousins, so maybe I'm blinded by fandom/ignorant of data points/on drugs to believe that Cousins is even above average, much less on the GREAT level of leadership where Wilson lives.

    This week, I get to gloat just a tiny bit. Cousins and the Vikings came from a 20-point deficit at home, to come back and beat the Broncos. Kirk and I text back and forth all the time on game day, so I'll his insights here as well, assuming he doesn't have any days so bad that his phone service gets shut off for QB suckitude. Yes, apparently that's a thing. Check the fine print of your wireless carrier's terms of service . Thankfully, there is no such clause addressing .NET posters.

    Kirk Cousins, Leader of Men? Or just another overpaid stiff, a Brock Osweiler of the NFC North? What say you, .NET? Kindly back up your assertions pro and con, with examples from specific games, whenever possible.
    olyfan63
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  • Since I mentioned the texts that Cousins and I (probably) share on game day, so I'm sharing the ones from last game.

    I texted him before the Broncos game to step it up today. Then at halftime, I texted him, "WTF Kirk, your team is down 20-0 at home, and it looks like you're just another bum! Bro, I believe in you, but you're letting me down!"
    Kirk texted me back, "Dude! Hold my beer! Got this! BCuz.. Diggs! Dalvin! Just told my bros to knock off the freakin retarded fumbles, and maybe keep my ass upright this second half! Do that $h!t, and I GUARANTEE we come back and win this thing. Oops, gotta go, 2nd half about to start, go book your bet on Vikings W now, or YOU LOSE!"

    After the game, Kirk text me this:
    "Dude, hand me back that beer, and then go check this out!" https://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20191117 ... 2019111705
    olyfan63
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  • Leader of men.

    His failing (and success) is that sometimes he's a bit passive but is also open to criticism.

    That's what led Diggs to call him out in September. He got better after that.
    SantaClaraHawk
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  • He's got an above average arm. He's on a bit of a roll.. but the cowboys and Broncos just $h!t the bed on two wins. If those play out like they were headed (both teams 1st and goal with less than a minute to go) we are right back to Cousins being overpaid , average QB..

    Thats about it. He's good.... sometimes a little more than that.

    He's cleaned up his fumbles, and a better run game, which honestly may be why his team has 8 wins. He's not shown he can carry the Vikings in a big game yet.

    I live in Mpls.. by all accounts hes a great guy and was the right choice for the Vikings.

    He's not top tier though.. needs a couple big wins
    Uncle Si
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  • He’s always demonstrated leadership and character; he was the second player in MSU history chosen as a team captain by his teammates for three years running. He made a speech prior to his senior year that got a lot of buzz. https://youtu.be/tp15N9BbYgY I don’t know whether he’s more of a lead by example type or a vocal guy.

    Kirk isn’t the most gifted from an arm talent standpoint, though I think his arm strength has actually improved a bit with NFL coaching.
    sc85sis
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  • Uncle Si wrote:He's got an above average arm. He's on a bit of a roll.. but the cowboys and Broncos just $h!t the bed on two wins. If those play out like they were headed (both teams 1st and goal with less than a minute to go) we are right back to Cousins being overpaid , average QB..

    Thats about it. He's good.... sometimes a little more than that.

    He's cleaned up his fumbles, and a better run game, which honestly may be why his team has 8 wins. He's not shown he can carry the Vikings in a big game yet.

    I live in Mpls.. by all accounts hes a great guy and was the right choice for the Vikings.
    He's not top tier though.. needs a couple big wins


    Enjoyed hearing your take. Living in Minneapolis... you would definitely get to see him and have a few data points.
    This is his second season with the Vikings; I know he had good "stats" last year, but underperformed W/L expectations in "big" games, and no playoffs.

    Hmm, maybe Zimmer and Cousins have taken notes from Carroll and Wilson on winning fugly. Like you said, Vikings squeaked out 2 W's they easily could have lost, thanks to PBUs with the game on the line. 8-3 is playoff material, 6-5 is below the line. I'd characterize the road win at Dallas as a "big" game, and the win over Denver turned into a big game once the score got to 20-0 Denver.

    I don't know that Cousins has ever had a team with a good running game and an excellent defense. OK, so last year then. He's in his 2nd year with the Vikes, knows the offense well by now and seems to take care of the ball and not turn it over much, and throws a pretty good deep ball. You know, the 2013-14 Seahawks formula, and the Pete Carroll formula in general. Definitely this would be the year where big expectations are now appropriate.

    Cousins being in his second year with the Vikings, brings benefits like knowing player capabilities... to do stuff like that jump pass thing he threw to Kyle Rudolph, for the one-handed catch in the back of the end zone. Knowing how far to throw it for Diggs' speed, and getting the timing and placement right. Understanding the offense well enough to totally switch tactics at halftime against Denver, and then execute. (Like the Seahawks at Pittsburgh this year) To my eyes, Russell is clearly better and more comfortable in his second season with Schotty, so maybe that is happening with Cousins too. Sometimes it's a whole bunch of little things that make the difference.

    Of course, Minny could get blown out the next 3 games, and we're back to Cousins the bum.

    The rest of Cousins' season will be interesting to watch.
    olyfan63
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  • OP,

    IMO, Cousins is in between a leader and a
    Stiff and it depends which cousins shows up.

    I'm on a phone so can't elaborate.
    Vesuve
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  • Vesuve wrote:OP,

    IMO, Cousins is in between a leader and a
    Stiff and it depends which cousins shows up.

    I'm on a phone so can't elaborate.


    Yeah.. He's a 2nd tier QB, behind Wilson. Brady, mahomes, rodgers, brees., Jackson. He's better than wentz or Hoff, rivers, Stafford.

    If you're starting a team, how would you rank cousins, JG, Murray?

    If this is just about his character.. the people here love him.
    Uncle Si
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  • Vesuve wrote:OP,

    IMO, Cousins is in between a leader and a
    Stiff and it depends which cousins shows up.

    I'm on a phone so can't elaborate.

    Kind of my take is well..
    He's never going to be RW so no need to compare.
    I think he needs to just learn what he can use from all
    the greats.
    IndyHawk
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Vesuve wrote:OP,

    IMO, Cousins is in between a leader and a
    Stiff and it depends which cousins shows up.

    I'm on a phone so can't elaborate.


    Yeah.. He's a 2nd tier QB, behind Wilson. Brady, mahomes, rodgers, brees., Jackson. He's better than wentz or Hoff, rivers, Stafford.

    If you're starting a team, how would you rank cousins, JG, Murray?

    If this is just about his character.. the people here love him.


    Nah, not about his character, Cousins is a freakin Eagle Scout, Mother Teresa in pads and a helmet. That, and $5, will get you a cup of coffee. If you don't tip, that is. In the NFL, such incorrigible character will get you taken advantage of and cheap-shotted.

    The question I was hoping to chart, over the rest of the season... does Cousins have the qualities as a leader to elevate the play of the teammates around him, and maybe even the defense? It's an intangible thing, and not something a QB has "direct" control of, but some seem to influence.

    The last two weeks have been interesting data points... Both weeks, Minnesota's D holds off a last-possession threat, after Cousins and the O stake the Vikings to a lead. Cousins has nothing to do with that... or does he? Kind of like how Pete Carroll gets unbelievably lucky when teams routinely fail to deliver the killer blow. Closer to home, I believe that Russell also elevates the play of the Seahawk defense, through his leadership and the tone he sets. I think the Hawks D playd that little extra bit harder, makes that extra no-business-making that play, in part because they know that if they get the ball back to Russell, just give him a chance, he will do something good with it. I think it's mutual... in the SF game, Russell got 3 cracks at it between end of regulation and OT, because the D was playing their assess off, in part to give Russell a shot to win it.

    A few years back, I was taken aback by the intensity of how Cousins' MSU college teammates loved him, totally believed in him, had his back 6 ways to Sunday. Cousins time with the Redskins... drafted as a late round afterthought behind the "great" Heisman Trophy Winner, Robert Griffin III. Winds up outplaying Griffin and eventually becoming the starter.

    IMO, Cousins' ceiling is perhaps Kurt Warner or even Tom Brady. Or even Drew Brees. But those would be dependent on Cousins having lots of room to grow by moving from the Redskins to Minnesota, from a bad organization to a much better one.
    olyfan63
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  • Cousin’s ceiling is not in the same stratosphere as Brady, Brees, or Warner. His ceiling is somewhere south of Matt Ryan. He doesn’t have great physical tools and he needs a lot of talent around him to be successful. That’s why he struggles against good teams.
    knownone
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  • Cousins has proven exactly zero in big time games. Therein lies your answer.
    Milehighhawk
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  • Cousins & the Vikes are starting to peak and when they come to Seattle they could be hot . Gr8 games coming up .
    xray
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  • olyfan63 wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Vesuve wrote:OP,

    IMO, Cousins is in between a leader and a
    Stiff and it depends which cousins shows up.

    I'm on a phone so can't elaborate.


    Yeah.. He's a 2nd tier QB, behind Wilson. Brady, mahomes, rodgers, brees., Jackson. He's better than wentz or Hoff, rivers, Stafford.

    If you're starting a team, how would you rank cousins, JG, Murray?

    If this is just about his character.. the people here love him.


    Nah, not about his character, Cousins is a freakin Eagle Scout, Mother Teresa in pads and a helmet. That, and $5, will get you a cup of coffee. If you don't tip, that is. In the NFL, such incorrigible character will get you taken advantage of and cheap-shotted.

    The question I was hoping to chart, over the rest of the season... does Cousins have the qualities as a leader to elevate the play of the teammates around him, and maybe even the defense? It's an intangible thing, and not something a QB has "direct" control of, but some seem to influence.

    The last two weeks have been interesting data points... Both weeks, Minnesota's D holds off a last-possession threat, after Cousins and the O stake the Vikings to a lead. Cousins has nothing to do with that... or does he? Kind of like how Pete Carroll gets unbelievably lucky when teams routinely fail to deliver the killer blow. Closer to home, I believe that Russell also elevates the play of the Seahawk defense, through his leadership and the tone he sets. I think the Hawks D playd that little extra bit harder, makes that extra no-business-making that play, in part because they know that if they get the ball back to Russell, just give him a chance, he will do something good with it. I think it's mutual... in the SF game, Russell got 3 cracks at it between end of regulation and OT, because the D was playing their assess off, in part to give Russell a shot to win it.

    A few years back, I was taken aback by the intensity of how Cousins' MSU college teammates loved him, totally believed in him, had his back 6 ways to Sunday. Cousins time with the Redskins... drafted as a late round afterthought behind the "great" Heisman Trophy Winner, Robert Griffin III. Winds up outplaying Griffin and eventually becoming the starter.

    IMO, Cousins' ceiling is perhaps Kurt Warner or even Tom Brady. Or even Drew Brees. But those would be dependent on Cousins having lots of room to grow by moving from the Redskins to Minnesota, from a bad organization to a much better one.


    Kirk cousins is at his ceiling.. it's not Warner or Brady, it's Cousins (Maybe Stafford at peak)

    He's a good guy. He's a slightly above average QB with a lot of very good offensive talent.

    He was decent the last 2 games, but a coaching mistake and like their at the end of both games saved him the embarrassment of 2 consecutive losses.

    He was poor at the end of the chiefs game.

    This is a huge year for him. They're 8-3.. decent schedule coming up, should be in playoffs.

    Really needs to win a few big games. Primetime. Playoffs. Overcome that doubt that's followed him.
    Uncle Si
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  • Awesome to see all the Cousins doubters come out. Seriously! It's an open question. Does Cousins, finally in a good situation with the pieces around him, have some upside he can still reach, another level he can take it to, to elevate his team and silence his doubters? (Silence them, I mean, for like, maybe, at least 30 seconds or so)

    I'm eager to see how the rest of the season unfolds and how he does. As a fan, I'm rooting for him to take that next step up. Just not against the Hawks in a few weeks. For that one, I hope Cousins plays average-well and Russell plays out of his mind for the win. But, elevate his game and his team for all the other match-ups. Like against the Packers. We shall see...
    olyfan63
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  • Come out?

    You made the thread. It's cool you're buddies with him, but it's not like the criticisms of him are confined to here.

    He's under scrutiny in local and national media, for a reason.

    If Cousins doesn't come through this season I can see the Vikings dumping him.

    While I enjoy watching Vikings fans tortured, if like to see them succeed (beating anyone but us)
    Uncle Si
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  • I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.
    5_Golden_Rings
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  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.


    So did Jeff George.
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  • Maulbert wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.


    So did Jeff George.

    George had a better arm I’d say. But Cousins has one of the best in the league.
    5_Golden_Rings
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  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    Maulbert wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.


    So did Jeff George.

    George had a better arm I’d say. But Cousins has one of the best in the league.


    Well, from what I've heard, George is widely regarded as perhaps the strongest arm in NFL history. Just a complete knucklehead.
    Maulbert
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  • Maulbert wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    Maulbert wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.


    So did Jeff George.

    George had a better arm I’d say. But Cousins has one of the best in the league.


    Well, from what I've heard, George is widely regarded as perhaps the strongest arm in NFL history. Just a complete knucklehead.


    Elway may object to that or Bert Jones and for that matter Warren Moon.
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  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.

    What? Kirk Cousin’s arm is pretty average compared to all of the starters in the NFL. Mahomes, Rodgers, Stafford, and even Kyler Murray blow Cousins out of the water in pure arm talent.
    knownone
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  • Cousins has a underrated arm and the ability to make big throws in rhythm. Like Russ his passing has evolved. While Russ always had touch he is showing improved pocket passing and volume throws. Cousins was a volume thrower who is showing better touch, efficiency and now willingness to just manage games. Both are great play-action qb and have almost identical stats at this point.... Russ is still more consistent and clutch.
    My knock on Cousins is that sometimes he has poor pocket awareness and ball security which dooms his team's comebacks. Russ on the other hand seem to have a spidey sense and has an uncanny feel for pressure or where his receivers will be even in chaos. Unlike Cousins he also knows when to tuck or run.
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  • knownone wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.

    What? Kirk Cousin’s arm is pretty average compared to all of the starters in the NFL. Mahomes, Rodgers, Stafford, and even Kyler Murray blow Cousins out of the water in pure arm talent.

    I disagree. He isn't going to burn a cross-stitch into your arms, but he has a very good deep ball and he can easily make every throw. There are, of course, various graduations in arm talent, but if you're top ten or so in arm talent, and I think Cousins is, that is good enough to call "elite" IMHO. Mahomes, by contrast, isn't just elite. He's all time great. Rodgers used to be. Stafford is just behind that. I haven't seen enough of Murray.
    5_Golden_Rings
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  • Great arms don't make great QB's, it can help but the ability to process information quickly and on the fly sets average apart from great and can also make a great armed QB look all world.
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  • I shall ask a friend to interject here as well as we are playing them. And will ask another old friend what he thinks on Facebook. Personally I don't know.
    Seahawkfan80
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  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    knownone wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.

    What? Kirk Cousin’s arm is pretty average compared to all of the starters in the NFL. Mahomes, Rodgers, Stafford, and even Kyler Murray blow Cousins out of the water in pure arm talent.

    I disagree. He isn't going to burn a cross-stitch into your arms, but he has a very good deep ball and he can easily make every throw. There are, of course, various graduations in arm talent, but if you're top ten or so in arm talent, and I think Cousins is, that is good enough to call "elite" IMHO. Mahomes, by contrast, isn't just elite. He's all time great. Rodgers used to be. Stafford is just behind that. I haven't seen enough of Murray.

    Ah, elite for me is top 5ish. He does throw a good deep ball and he’s a significantly better QB than a lot of players with better arms. He’s just not a guy whose going to wow you with a 70 yard bomb while he’s falling down like Josh Allen or Mahomes. He’s more in that Jared Goff category of guys who can zip it in when they have time to plant their feet and windup. Not really a knock, just never thought I’d see ‘elite arm’ next to Cousins.
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  • When the game is on the line? I could think of a LOT of QB's I would rather have than Cousins. Especially a prime time game
    SoulfishHawk
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  • Quick take:

    If Cousins was seen as a leader of men, he'd still be in DC. I know plenty of Skin fans who hate him, despite pretty decent production. Alex Smith was seen as significantly better in the leadership department.

    If Cousins was seen as a leader of men, he might be an elite QB. As a pure thrower of the football, he's very good. What limits him are the intangibles.

    He's not prime time proven just yet, or ever.

    That's something I don't think even Shanahan could fix.
    NINEster
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  • He can definitely sling it. However, his prime time record is a flat out joke. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't win under the big lights, you're not a big time QB.
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  • Cousins is a lot better than a stiff. But he is not the best guy either. He really looks the part. His height, weight, throwing arm, and mechanics are kind of ideal. It's what you would look for in an "NFL QB." But when it's a big game or going deep in the playoffs against very tough opponents I'm not sure he has it. He will help you win some games and look good doing it throwing with ideal mechanics and pretty spirals. But can he win the really big games on the road? Can he go deep in the playoffs? Can he win huge games? The record seems mixed on this. I'm not sure personally if he can.
    SanDiego49er
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  • knownone wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:
    knownone wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:I don’t know what he is but I know he has an elite arm. That may be all he has though.

    What? Kirk Cousin’s arm is pretty average compared to all of the starters in the NFL. Mahomes, Rodgers, Stafford, and even Kyler Murray blow Cousins out of the water in pure arm talent.

    I disagree. He isn't going to burn a cross-stitch into your arms, but he has a very good deep ball and he can easily make every throw. There are, of course, various graduations in arm talent, but if you're top ten or so in arm talent, and I think Cousins is, that is good enough to call "elite" IMHO. Mahomes, by contrast, isn't just elite. He's all time great. Rodgers used to be. Stafford is just behind that. I haven't seen enough of Murray.

    Ah, elite for me is top 5ish. He does throw a good deep ball and he’s a significantly better QB than a lot of players with better arms. He’s just not a guy whose going to wow you with a 70 yard bomb while he’s falling down like Josh Allen or Mahomes. He’s more in that Jared Goff category of guys who can zip it in when they have time to plant their feet and windup. Not really a knock, just never thought I’d see ‘elite arm’ next to Cousins.

    I am referring to the fact that he can make every single necessary throw with accuracy and touch appropriate to the situation. If he wasn't a choke artist and was better between the helmet holes he'd be a regular MVP candidate.
    5_Golden_Rings
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  • Kirk is just good enough to be a highly sought-after commodity in the NFL. You gotta give him credit for making bank off of that.

    Also: "You like that? You like that!"
    Threedee
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  • He certainly isn't the worst QB in the league.
    Sox-n-Hawks
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  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:He certainly isn't the worst QB in the league.


    He's top 10. Just not top 5. He's certainly worthy of this discussion.

    The leader of men idea though... I don't know. People speak very well of him here and he's raised his hand to every mistake he's made as a Viking. I think that says something.
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  • 0 and forever in primetime games.
    Uncle Si
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  • Cousins played well enough to win. Brought his team back from 17 points down in the 4th quarter on the road to within a field goal. Oops. Then Cousins missed that extra point. Wait. You mean Cousins isn't even the kicker, or the holder, or the long snapper? Cousins isn't even on the FG/PAT team personnel? So it was his lack of leadership from the sidelines then?

    KIRK COUSINS SUCKS RANTS FOLLOW...
    =======================================================
    https://twitter.com/murphmedia_/status/ ... 9868040193
    Kirk Cousins simply cannot allow 400-plus yards on defense and expect to be considered an elite quarterback. #Vikings

    Kirk Cousins simply cannot allow 210+ rushing yards to an opponent, including nearly every crucial 3rd and 1, and be considered a good big-game quarterback. The worst of Cousins' performance was when he allowed a 29-yard trick play run out of 4th and 2 punt formation. Cousins also simply cannot allow Dalvin Cook to fumble and turn the ball over on a routine running play. To add injury to insult, Cousins' poor decision on the Dalvin Cook fumble play also led to Cook injuring his arm on that play and having Cook, his elite #1 running threat, be unavailable the rest of the game. Cousins has to understand he can't be a truly elite downfield passing threat without a homerun running threat like Cook. Cousins simply has step up his leadership to prevent disastrous plays like this!

    Correction: Cousins' worst moment of the night was when he surrendered that long TD pass to the Seahawks David Moore. Where was the safety help Cousins should have provided and that the cornerback was obviously expecting? Simply poor decisionmaking on Cousins' part. For 60 or 80 Kazillion or whatever they're paying Cousins, Vikings fans deserve better!
    :sarcasm_off:

    ANALYSIS: COUSINS LEADERSHIP IN DIFFICULT CONDITIONS
    ============================================================
    OK, getting serious for a minute. Kirk Freakin' Cousins brought his team back from 17 down in the 4th quarter to within a field goal against a red-hot Seahawks team, in a very hostile environment, and missing his #1 offensive weapon, Dalvin Cook. The Vikings, and Cousins, never gave up, never got their heads down, even trailing by 17. I am going to give Cousins some positive leadership points for his role in this. Cousins' leadership and big-game QB status went up in my eyes on this game.

    I'm on the fence on this one; Cousins performance in this game swayed me slightly to the Leader-of-Men and emerging potential superstar side of the fence. But, it's not enough. It was still an L for his team. (Happily, as a Seahawks fan) It was, however, encouraging progress.

    That stat on Cousins being 0-8 on Monday night? 6 or 7 of those were when he was with the *Redskins*. As we saw in 2017 at CenturyLink in our loss to the Redskins, sometimes Cousins was the reason that Washington won ANY games at all.

    I say the real test of Cousins is the upcoming GB game. I think Cousins beats the Packers and Erin in that game; if he does, we can start talking about Cousins shaking the curse.
    olyfan63
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  • Youre making me argue against cousins, who I like. Seems a good dude.

    But this a long list of distractions. He threw the ball in the air over 10 yards just 7 times Monday night. One of those was a broken play. Another was a Pi. The others?

    He's an above average QB.. but a leader of men or superstar? Those types win big games.

    They certainly don't duck behind the inundation of excuses listed above..

    Tell me, as his autobiograoher and full on swim fan.. which of these qbs does cousins replace in a lineup. 5? 6? Less?

    Wilson
    Machines
    Jackson
    Murray
    Brady
    Rodgers
    Dax
    JG
    Watson
    Brees

    Cousins has emerged above Goff, Rivers, Stafford, Wentz. Does that make him a superstar? A leader of men? (Seriously?)

    The Vikings, Zimmer, Cousins are on a precipice. Close to stepping out from.the shadow of disappointment that has defined them the last couple years, or secure themselves as perennial underachievers.
    Uncle Si
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  • Let's check in after the Packers game, OK? That is a BIG GAME for the Vikings and their playoff prospects. Bigger for them than the Hawks game. Beating Russell Wilson and the Seahawks at the CLink on Monday Night was always going to be a very, very tall order for ANY QB. Many have tried, nearly all have failed.

    Cousins is in his 2nd year now in the Vikes offense, has seen the GB defense a couple times now. Dalvin Cook is supposedly healthy enough to play already, and he should have top receiver Adam Thielen back for that one. If Cousins can beat Aaron Rodgers and the Packers in a big game like that, it's a starting point to prove he can win them.

    From your list, I would choose Cousins over Dak and JG. I'd take him over Machines too, because the last Robo-QB, Todd Marinovich, was a bust. But I would clearly choose Mahomes, Watson, and Wilson over Cousins. All the others, it's pretty close, with style differences that make it as much about the fit with the offense. Right now, he's better than an apparently declining Brady.

    I think your definition, your expectations, might be loftier than mine. I'm not expecting Cousins to take over a game with athletic or arm talent, like a DeShaun Watson, or Patrick Mahomes. He's a guy who needs a full team and a defense around him, and some good receivers, and can't single-handedly make up for team limitations in that area. His ceiling might be Matt Ryan in the 28-3 SB lead season. Matty Ice also had Julio in his prime to throw to, a nice security blanket. If Cousins can beat GB and lead the Vikes to a division title, AND a home playoff win, that would be a good showing, justifying the money Minny spent to get him. My standard is more, can Cousins do for Minny what Matty Ice did for the Falcons, what Nick Foles did for the Eagles, what Eli did in some past seasons for the Giants. I'm not expecting Joe Montana, Steve Young, or peak Brady.
    olyfan63
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  • Foles, Ryan, Eli have all played in Super Bowls. That goal is about the only justification for the 80 million fully guaranteed contract he signed.

    He was brought in to balance an excellent defense with a skilled offense, pushing them over the top. Those aren't my lofty goals, those are the teams.

    He's not doing it... and it's not just on Monday night.

    I live in MN so I hear this every day... majority of people are happy with him. He's cleaned up his fumbles, bad INTs and isn't sewing passes knocked down as much. But hes got a much better running game and short passing compliment now do he doesn't HAVE to make big throws, where he was getting in trouble last year.
    Uncle Si
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  • I had forgotten you live in MN... clearly you'd be getting a media earful about Kirk Cousins' every bowel movement, never mind his QB play. Whatever else can be said, there certainly seems to be no lack of effort and preparation on Cousins' part to earn that $80M guaranteed contract. Can we agree on that aspect, as say, compared to a JaMarcus Russell? (I know that's setting the bar very, very low) And I don't care if he's a good dude, good character, and that rubbish. I hear Andy Dalton is a high-character guy. Win or the rest of that package means squat.

    I would say Cousins "did IT" in the Denver game, played up to his contract. Bringing his team back from 0-20 deficit or whatever it was, not a bad day's work. Agreed, just one data point, but a positive one. OK, Cousins, if you want any hope of ever winning Uncle Si over, then dammit win Sunday, and then win the week after over Rogers and the Packers, or you're stuck in stiff-land.

    I'll text Kirk some motivational crap to help fire him up and see what he says. I've been out of touch so I'll ask him about the Hawks game too and why the freak didn't he pull off the comeback when he had the ball and the chance. ;) And no, Kirk, being intimidated by the greatness that is Akeem King covering your target receiver on 4th down is not a valid excuse.
    olyfan63
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  • I think cousins is a good QB...

    I just don't think he's taken the next step to be considered great.
    Uncle Si
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  • I see I'm a week off. It's not this week, but the week after for the Vikings-Packers game, ON MONDAY NIGHT, in the Homer Dome. Now THIS is a big game, PROVIDED that the Vikings beat the Chargers in LA, not at all a guaranteed thing. After all, the Chargers beat up the Packers a few weeks back.

    So it looks like Cousins has 2 big games in the next 2 weeks:
    1) Beat the Chargers in LA this week
    2) Beat the Packers at home the week after

    But, even if Vikings win both, if Minnesota then loses the season finale to Chicago, the other games won't matter, and he won't get credit for them, and might even miss the playoffs, depending on Rams record. So 3 big games for Cousins and the Vikings. OK, Kirk, gotta win all 3 to move out of stiff-land. Division title or (you're a) bust.
    olyfan63
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  • Cousins and the Vikes beat up on the Chargers, on the road. Setting up the GB game nicely.
    Cousins seemed to play well and lead his team to a road victory.
    As a Hawk fan, I'd love to see Cousins show some leadership and beat the Pack, to knock them down a bit in the seeding and out of a #1 seed possibility. Can we agree this is a "big game" for him to show his progress in?
    olyfan63
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  • olyfan63 wrote:Cousins and the Vikes beat up on the Chargers, on the road. Setting up the GB game nicely.
    Cousins seemed to play well and lead his team to a road victory.
    As a Hawk fan, I'd love to see Cousins show some leadership and beat the Pack, to knock them down a bit in the seeding and out of a #1 seed possibility. Can we agree this is a "big game" for him to show his progress in?


    The Seahawks benefit more from a Packers win, as a 3-way tie between us, GB, and NO would give Seattle the #1 seed, whereas a tie with just the Saints puts us at #2.
    Maulbert
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  • olyfan63 wrote:I see I'm a week off. It's not this week, but the week after for the Vikings-Packers game, ON MONDAY NIGHT, in the Homer Dome. Now THIS is a big game, PROVIDED that the Vikings beat the Chargers in LA, not at all a guaranteed thing. After all, the Chargers beat up the Packers a few weeks back.

    So it looks like Cousins has 2 big games in the next 2 weeks:
    1) Beat the Chargers in LA this week
    2) Beat the Packers at home the week after

    But, even if Vikings win both, if Minnesota then loses the season finale to Chicago, the other games won't matter, and he won't get credit for them, and might even miss the playoffs, depending on Rams record. So 3 big games for Cousins and the Vikings. OK, Kirk, gotta win all 3 to move out of stiff-land. Division title or (you're a) bust.



    I don't think Kirk reads these boards... unless you are actually him, which would make sense for this thread to even exist
    Uncle Si
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  • He is a Leader of Stiffs.
    Largent80
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  • Maulbert wrote:
    olyfan63 wrote:Cousins and the Vikes beat up on the Chargers, on the road. Setting up the GB game nicely.
    Cousins seemed to play well and lead his team to a road victory.
    As a Hawk fan, I'd love to see Cousins show some leadership and beat the Pack, to knock them down a bit in the seeding and out of a #1 seed possibility. Can we agree this is a "big game" for him to show his progress in?


    The Seahawks benefit more from a Packers win, as a 3-way tie between us, GB, and NO would give Seattle the #1 seed, whereas a tie with just the Saints puts us at #2.

    The Vikings beating the Packers is pretty much the only way we can lose to the 49ers and still win the division. So it’s hard to say one outcome is more beneficial than the other at this point.
    knownone
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  • You didn't really think Cousins was going to win that game vs Green Bay did you? I knew he wouldn't. I have never seen him win a big game in my life. NEVER. I mean he may have some out there that I didn't see but they are few and far between. 0 - 9 on MNF is incredible. It's stunning to be that bad. You would think you would win one by just getting lucky. He is like 0 - 100 in big games, prime time games, SNF, MNF, playoff atmosphere, really important match ups. I mean I NEVER see him win anything big. I can't believe people think this is a "good QB" based on stats. If you can't win big games EVER you are NOT GOOD period.

    :34853_doh:
    SanDiego49er
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  • SanDiego49er wrote:You didn't really think Cousins was going to win that game vs Green Bay did you? I knew he wouldn't. I have never seen him win a big game in my life. NEVER. I mean he may have some out there that I didn't see but they are few and far between. 0 - 9 on MNF is incredible. It's stunning to be that bad. You would think you would win one by just getting lucky. He is like 0 - 100 in big games, prime time games, SNF, MNF, playoff atmosphere, really important match ups. I mean I NEVER see him win anything big. I can't believe people think this is a "good QB" based on stats. If you can't win big games EVER you are NOT GOOD period.

    :34853_doh:
    I was cautiously optimistic, especially if Dalvin Cook was playing . Kirk, give us some kind of sign that things are different now! So, without Cook, Kirk buddy, it's all you! This is your chance! Elite QBs can win games anyway even when their team is missing a weapon or two.

    Even the early game returns were positive. Minny gets a turnover giving them the ball 10 yards from paydirt. Then they settle for a FG??!!! WTF is this schit?? Another turnover, and Cousins gets a TD pass and now it's 10-3. Then another GB turnover. No points from that, Vikings offense fails to cash in. OK, so 3 gift wrapped turnovers, for a total of 10 Minnesota points?

    Minny's leading rusher had 28 yards on 10 carries. So clearly Minnesota is *screwed* without their Dalvin Cook running game. Cousins is not able to carry the team without a running game.

    Minnesota's O-Line had trouble with the Packers' D-Line, 5 sacks on Cousins. Cousins repeatedly took drive-killing sacks, while looking deep downfield, including some dumb sacks he ran himself into. Marginal pocket awareness. What we Seahawks fans call "Hero Ball" when Russell Wilson does this.

    MY Verdict: Kirk Cousins is a better than average STIFF. He could not elevate his team to a W at home, even when spotted 3 turnovers.

    Alternate view: With Dalvin Cook and a running game, Cousins and the Vikes score at least 24 points in this game, and the Vikings probably win. The Vikings held Cook out for the playoffs, to try to get him healthy. Cousins and the Vikings could be dangerous in the playoffs with a healthy Dalvin Cook.

    Looking forward: Next week's game is pretty much meaningless for the Vikes. Playoffs. If Cousins can lead his team to a playoff win, it will be time to revisit this.
    olyfan63
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