Drew Bree’s is the secret GOAT

Put him and his five 5,000 yard seasons on that Patriots team instead of Brady and he has seven rings. Fight me.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... -td-passes

Maybe even eight or nine rings. I've been saying it for years; Brady is not the GOAT. Belichick is.

Brees has never been great in cold weather games, he wouldn't win as many as Brady.

The real GOAT is Peyton Manning. If he was on the Patriots, they'd have won just about every Super Bowl until Manning retired.

It's crazy. There have been eleven 5,000 yard passing seasons in NFL history. 7 people have done it. Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Patrick Mahomes, and Matt Stafford have each done it ONCE. Drew Brees is the only person who has repeated the feat, and he's done it FIVE TIMES. Seriously.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_single_season.htm

knownone":1h4sdagy said:

Brees has never been great in cold weather games, he wouldn't win as many as Brady.

The real GOAT is Peyton Manning. If he was on the Patriots, they'd have won just about every Super Bowl until Manning retired.

Click to expand...

Manning was a choke artist. No question he was a better overall QB than his brother, but Eli clearly got all the clutch genes.

knownone":1duczmyf said:

Brees has never been great in cold weather games, he wouldn't win as many as Brady.

The real GOAT is Peyton Manning. If he was on the Patriots, they'd have won just about every Super Bowl until Manning retired.

Click to expand...

Nope, he got real average in big games

Dave Kreig would have 18 rings under Belichick. Fact. Even at his current age.

Most overrated stat for a QB.

hawksfansinceday1":14px6b2k said:

knownone":14px6b2k said:

Brees has never been great in cold weather games, he wouldn't win as many as Brady.

The real GOAT is Peyton Manning. If he was on the Patriots, they'd have won just about every Super Bowl until Manning retired.

Click to expand...

Nope, he got real average in big games

Click to expand...

And in cold weather games. It was no coincidence that the one Superb Owl he won with the Colts was the one year Bob Sanders stayed healthy.

Saints are my pick for the Superbowl NFC contender. Their offense is playing really well right now. If they get home field in the playoffs, look out.

Maulbert":xhk8l6r9 said:

knownone":xhk8l6r9 said:

Brees has never been great in cold weather games, he wouldn't win as many as Brady.

The real GOAT is Peyton Manning. If he was on the Patriots, they'd have won just about every Super Bowl until Manning retired.

Click to expand...

Manning was a choke artist. No question he was a better overall QB than his brother, but Eli clearly got all the clutch genes.

Click to expand...

So, the QB with the second most wins in playoff history and the only QB with a winning record against Brady in the playoffs, is a choke artist? Why? Because he threw one bad interception in the Superbowl?

That narrative against Manning is silly. He still leads the league by far in 4th quarter come backs while playing in less games than Brady and Brees.

Eli is not clutch. If he was clutch he wouldn't have one of the highest interception rates in NFL history, and he would have made the playoffs more than 6 times in his 14 years as a starter.

knownone":2ejvxgbe said:

Maulbert":2ejvxgbe said:

knownone":2ejvxgbe said:

Brees has never been great in cold weather games, he wouldn't win as many as Brady.

The real GOAT is Peyton Manning. If he was on the Patriots, they'd have won just about every Super Bowl until Manning retired.

Click to expand...

Manning was a choke artist. No question he was a better overall QB than his brother, but Eli clearly got all the clutch genes.

Click to expand...

So, the QB with the second most wins in playoff history and the only QB with a winning record against Brady in the playoffs, is a choke artist? Why? Because he threw one bad interception in the Superbowl?

That narrative against Manning is silly. He still leads the league by far in 4th quarter come backs while playing in less games than Brady and Brees.

Eli is not clutch. If he was clutch he wouldn't have one of the highest interception rates in NFL history, and he would have made the playoffs more than 6 times in his 14 years as a starter.

Click to expand...

Peyton Manning's career Super Bowl line:

155/103/1,001/3/5/77.4

He had a passer rating of 81.8 with 1 TD and 1 Int in the game he won Super Bowl MVP. They won that game because Rex Grossman started for the Bears, not because of Peyton Manning. He was carried to Super Bowl titles by Bob Sanders and Von Miller.

As for his winning record vs. Brady in the playoffs? He was 3-2, including 2015, when the Broncos D was what carried that team. He was hardly Brady's kryptonite. Brady had more trouble with the Ravens.

Brady is definitely the best consistent executor. Dude has done what he's supposed to do a high percentage of the time. Brees is a magic man.

I am a PM fan..
I got to go see a few Colts games over the years and it was
fun to watch him but he is not GOAT.
He could be if you went by regular season but come the big
games he would choke..All you have to do is look at his three
SB's..He did win MVP but really was not.That was the Colts D.
As for DB if he didn't have a offensive HC and a dome?
You would not be seeing the stats as high.I will do even better
You could put RW in NO for last 10 yrs and I bet RW would
have put five 5k seasons..It is an overrated stat.
Had Dan Marino been playing instead of DB Dan would have
put up 6k ..I'm not kidding

IndyHawk":unvrj72i said:

I am a PM fan..
I got to go see a few Colts games over the years and it was
fun to watch him but he is not GOAT.
He could be if you went by regular season but come the big
games he would choke..All you have to do is look at his three
SB's..He did win MVP but really was not.That was the Colts D.
As for DB if he didn't have a offensive HC and a dome?
You would not be seeing the stats as high.I will do even better
You could put RW in NO for last 10 yrs and I bet RW would
have put five 5k seasons..It is an overrated stat.
Had Dan Marino been playing instead of DB Dan would have
put up 6k ..I'm not kidding

Click to expand...

I doubt Wilson would do what Brees did in New Orleans. Brees puts up 5000 not just because he has a good deep ball, like Wilson does, but because for the last 12 years Brees has hit the quick timing routes, the short routes, and the intermediate routes all ON TIME and IN RHYTHM (which is why he keeps breaking the completion percentage record), something Wilson WAS NOT able to do consistently until just the last three years or so. That was Wilson's one weakness for quite a while, until he started really developing as a pocket passer the last few years.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Saints/status/1206772869793013762[/tweet]

5_Golden_Rings":2lcaonys said:

I doubt Wilson would do what Brees did in New Orleans. Brees puts up 5000 not just because he has a good deep ball, like Wilson does, but because for the last 12 years Brees has hit the quick timing routes, the short routes, and the intermediate routes all ON TIME and IN RHYTHM (which is why he keeps breaking the completion percentage record), something Wilson WAS NOT able to do consistently until just the last three years or so. That was Wilson's one weakness for quite a while, until he started really developing as a pocket passer the last few years.

Click to expand...

I think half the reason why for that is lack of action in the Seahawks offense, though. I've been desperate for more quick-strike passing in our regular repertoire ever since we drafted Wilson. Drew Brees probably had more quick release routes run by his receivers in his first two years in New Orleans than Seattle has had in the entire Wilson era.

It'll never happen with Pete as our coach, though.

Maulbert":3v3jo7qg said:

knownone":3v3jo7qg said:

Maulbert":3v3jo7qg said:

knownone":3v3jo7qg said:

Brees has never been great in cold weather games, he wouldn't win as many as Brady.

The real GOAT is Peyton Manning. If he was on the Patriots, they'd have won just about every Super Bowl until Manning retired.

Click to expand...

Manning was a choke artist. No question he was a better overall QB than his brother, but Eli clearly got all the clutch genes.

Click to expand...

So, the QB with the second most wins in playoff history and the only QB with a winning record against Brady in the playoffs, is a choke artist? Why? Because he threw one bad interception in the Superbowl?

That narrative against Manning is silly. He still leads the league by far in 4th quarter come backs while playing in less games than Brady and Brees.

Eli is not clutch. If he was clutch he wouldn't have one of the highest interception rates in NFL history, and he would have made the playoffs more than 6 times in his 14 years as a starter.

Click to expand...

Peyton Manning's career Super Bowl line:

155/103/1,001/3/5/77.4

He had a passer rating of 81.8 with 1 TD and 1 Int in the game he won Super Bowl MVP. They won that game because Rex Grossman started for the Bears, not because of Peyton Manning. He was carried to Super Bowl titles by Bob Sanders and Von Miller.

As for his winning record vs. Brady in the playoffs? He was 3-2, including 2015, when the Broncos D was what carried that team. He was hardly Brady's kryptonite. Brady had more trouble with the Ravens.

Click to expand...

Hmm. The 2006 Colts had the 25th ranked defense. Bob Sanders certainly played a part in helping them make it through the playoffs and win the Super Bowl but he didn't carry that team, Manning did. Also, sample size and the circumstances surrounding Manning's SB performances are important. For instance, the Bears had a historically great defense that was #2 in the league in points allowed and #1 in pass defense. So half of Manning's 4 Superbowls were against 2 of the top 5 defenses of the last 20 years, and 2 of those 4 are post 3 neck fusion surgeries.

It's also important to remember that Manning played for 4 different coaches and he played with defenses that were really made to compliment him rather than stand on their own. For most of his career, the defense was small and built to play with a lead, so when Manning couldn't get it going they typically lost games. In many ways, his situation was similar to Wilson's last couple of years. The big difference being that Manning played with coaches that allowed him to carry the load which is why he put up crazy numbers and turned teams with very little talent into 12+ win teams. This is the reason he has the most gaming winning drives in NFL history (54) where as someone like Brady whose played in more games and been on stacked teams most of his career only has 44. This translates to Wilson as well, his game winning drives have sky rocketed since 2016 as the nucleus of the Superbowl team dissipated.

So yeah, give Manning Belichick and they win as many or more Superbowl's than w/Brady. Brees is great, but the man has only made the playoffs 9 times in 19 years, and if you're gonna knock Manning for his performance in big games, you should at least knock guys for not making it to those big games.

Brady is 2-2 vs the Ravens in the playoffs.

knownone":2hsddz9o said:

He still leads the league by far in 4th quarter come backs while playing in less games than Brady and Brees.

Click to expand...

He only has 8 more 4th quarter comebacks and 4 more game winning drives than Brees does.

Manning: 43 4th quarter comebacks and 54 game winning drives (45 and 56 including playoffs)
Brees: 35 4th quarter comebacks and 50 game winning drives (37 and 53 including playoffs)

Brees has also had ~20 potential 4th quarter comeback/game winning drives he piloted the Saints offense to, only to watch the defense (or special teams) squander it away. For example...

• - 2019 vs. 49ers (4QC/GWD)
  - 2018 NFC Championship vs. Rams (GWD)
  - 2017 NFC Divisional @ Vikings(4QC/GWD)
  - 2017 @ Buccaneers (4QC)
  - 2016 vs. Broncos (4QC/GWD)
  - 2016 vs. Raiders (GWD)
  - 2015 vs. Panthers (4QC/GWD)
  - 2014 vs. 49ers (4QC/GWD)
  - 2014 @ Browns (4QC/GWD)
  - 2014 @ Falcons (4QC/GWD)
  - 2013 @ Panthers (4QC/GWD)
  - 2013 @ Patriots (4QC)
  - 2011 Divisional @ 49ers (4QC/GWD)
  - 2010 @ Ravens (4QC)
  - 2010 vs. Falcons (4QC/GWD)
  - 2008 vs. Panthers (4QC/GWD)
  - 2008 @ Bears (4QC/GWD)
  - 2008 @ Buccaneers (4QC)
  - 2008 vs. Vikings (4QC)
  - 2008 @ Broncos (4QC/GWD)

That's 18 4th quarter comebacks and 15 game winning drives that were foiled by the defense or special team in the last minutes of the game after Brees and the offense did their job. That's without even needing to go through his 5 years in San Diego. Manning, and especially Brady, were afforded the luxury of playing with far better defenses that were able to hold onto those leads than the defenses Brees has carried the length of his career.

5_Golden_Rings":k76ouftg said:

IndyHawk":k76ouftg said:

I am a PM fan..
I got to go see a few Colts games over the years and it was
fun to watch him but he is not GOAT.
He could be if you went by regular season but come the big
games he would choke..All you have to do is look at his three
SB's..He did win MVP but really was not.That was the Colts D.
As for DB if he didn't have a offensive HC and a dome?
You would not be seeing the stats as high.I will do even better
You could put RW in NO for last 10 yrs and I bet RW would
have put five 5k seasons..It is an overrated stat.
Had Dan Marino been playing instead of DB Dan would have
put up 6k ..I'm not kidding

Click to expand...

I doubt Wilson would do what Brees did in New Orleans. Brees puts up 5000 not just because he has a good deep ball, like Wilson does, but because for the last 12 years Brees has hit the quick timing routes, the short routes, and the intermediate routes all ON TIME and IN RHYTHM (which is why he keeps breaking the completion percentage record), something Wilson WAS NOT able to do consistently until just the last three years or so. That was Wilson's one weakness for quite a while, until he started really developing as a pocket passer the last few years.

Click to expand...

You certainly have a good take and I respect your opinion..
Maybe the RW of the last 3-4 yrs does it?The only thing is
the deep ball..RW with those Saints WR's over the years
with a prime JG..Hard for me not to see huge numbers.
Sean is not PC on offense and that also leads me to think
he would have had RW learn things much more rapidly.