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Richard Sherman won

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Richard Sherman won
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:58 pm
  • Negotiated his own contract and it paid off handsomely.

    Is also on one of the best teams in the league.

    Smart guy.
    SixSeahawk
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:36 pm
  • Richard's extremely smart.

    Everyone here is saying he'll get another contract. Possibly though 2023, when he'd be 35.

    After that, it's hoped that he'll join the coaching staff. He could go far.

    It's sad that the latter can't happen in Seattle.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:38 pm
  • He did really well. People made fun of his contract. But he met most of the incentives. Now he has the salary permanently increased, bonus met, and contract guaranteed for among other things making the Pro Bowl, being healthy enough to start X games and so on. He basically met most or all of them. So he gets a lot more money and guaranteed money.

    But was there any doubt really? As long as he could stay healthy he would meet the conditions. He's a great player. Always has been.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:43 pm
  • SanDiego49er wrote:He did really well. People made fun of his contract. But he met most of the incentives. Now he has the salary permanently increased, bonus met, and contract guaranteed for among other things making the Pro Bowl, being healthy enough to start X games and so on. He basically met most or all of them. So he gets a lot more money and guaranteed money.

    But was there any doubt really? As long as he could stay healthy he would meet the conditions. He's a great player. Always has been.


    There was plenty of doubt....especially from Seahawk fans. Or maybe it was more hoping he wouldn't, who knows.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sat Jan 04, 2020 2:16 am
  • His age and the Achilles injury were risks by most standards, Sherman has some of the most focused drive you can imagine in a player of his generation for himself and to prove others wrong, something we sorely miss from his days here.

    Additionally we had just been through a few second injuries here in Seattle so the rolling the dice again on a high salary with Wilson coming up and Wagner was just outside the window of options.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:43 am
  • chris98251 wrote:His age and the Achilles injury were risks by most standards, Sherman has some of the most focused drive you can imagine in a player of his generation for himself and to prove others wrong, something we sorely miss from his days here.

    Additionally we had just been through a few second injuries here in Seattle so the rolling the dice again on a high salary with Wilson coming up and Wagner was just outside the window of options.

    Exactly..
    We get screwed enough with injuries big time like with Kam for example.
    Sherm was and is past his prime..Why take more risks?It was smart not
    to..He proved he can still play but with our DL he'd have been worn out.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:22 am
  • chris98251 wrote:His age and the Achilles injury were risks by most standards, Sherman has some of the most focused drive you can imagine in a player of his generation for himself and to prove others wrong, something we sorely miss from his days here.

    Additionally we had just been through a few second injuries here in Seattle so the rolling the dice again on a high salary with Wilson coming up and Wagner was just outside the window of options.

    You can’t ignore the attitude factor either. Sherm had reached the point that he was a net negative to team morale. (Not dumping that solely on him, a variety of factors contributed)

    Given his personality type I’m sure being in SF provided him a channel to funnel the energy that never would have happened in Seattle. Glad it worked out for him even if it’s with a rival.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:26 am
  • One cool thing that made his contract possible was his wife. I guess the negotiations were stalled and it was his wife that had the idea of the pay increase if he makes the pro bowl. Smart woman also. This was according to an interview I read
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:48 pm
  • I'm happy for him. But his arrogance got him run out of Seattle. He put himself above the team and caused "dissension in the ranks.". Ignored his Head Coach, refused too apologize to the media (even privately) for calling them out, and his attitude wasn't improving. So Pete did what he had to do to "Protect the Team."

    Having said that, I wish he was still here, but he made that impossible. Glad to see him succeed, and appreciative of everything he did for this team, and this fan base.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:32 pm
  • Never doubted he’d get there. Wish we kept him.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:38 am
  • He's sorely missed. Loved his attitude.
    SixSeahawk
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:16 am
  • He's lucky he's been able to bounce back because, IMO, it's still a bad contract for anyone that considers themself a top CB in the league. 49ers are still the winners on that deal. Meeting all of his incentives this year netted him somewhere around $13MM this season which definitely helps, but that barely cracks top 10 CB salary in 2019.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:15 pm
  • JGfromtheNW wrote:He's lucky he's been able to bounce back because, IMO, it's still a bad contract for anyone that considers themself a top CB in the league. 49ers are still the winners on that deal. Meeting all of his incentives this year netted him somewhere around $13MM this season which definitely helps, but that barely cracks top 10 CB salary in 2019.


    It netted him 14 million and the top ten paid CBs this year had an average salary of....14 million.

    It doesn't barely crack the top 10 at all.

    Tenth this year is Chris Harris at 11.9 million.

    Sherman's deal this year puts him at #6.

    So at the end of the day for this year at least the 9ers got a Top 3 CB or so at a Top 6 CB price.

    I think you're gonna be really hard pressed to find a deal that's more fair for both sides than that, TBH (particularly for a 30+ QB coming off of a major injury).
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:40 pm
  • Do you mind sharing where you're getting your numbers? Almost everything I've seen has him at $13MM this year.

    Anyway, I still think it was a bad contract. $3MM originally guaranteed, heavily bonus/incentive laden. He missed out on $3MM last year (should have been $4MM, but it appears the 9ers are throwing him a bone for not hitting 90% of defensive snaps both last year and this year), and it required him to meet all incentives to hit $13MM this year. Luckily for him, his base salary will raise next year, but he's still going to be out of the top 5 paid CBs (and likely further down after this offseason's signings).

    Sherm will claim that he bet on himself and he "won" that bet, and while he did hit his incentives to make good money, I'm not sure that he "won." An agent could have (a BIG COULD HAVE, cause we'll never know) got him more guaranteed money, could have been structured differently, etc. He campaigns against using agents when an agent gets at most 3% of a salary... he lost more money last year than an agent would have made off his entire contract. Then you look forward and see the contract will only escalate by $1-2MM... Just my opinion, but I think it was a bad contract.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:46 pm
  • Ahhh I think I see where you're getting $14MM now. I assume it's the Per Game Roster Bonus up to $2MM.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:01 pm
  • ^^^ Yeah. Sorry.

    Running out the door but CB pay for this year was from Over The Cap or Spotrac (I don't remember which one I went to -- the one where it was easier to convert from APY to 2019 pay).

    14 million was from all the reporting. I'm guessing the discrepancy of 1 million is the snap % bonus. He needed 90% of snaps to get that bonus and had 87.5% and they gave it to him anyway because that was obviously the right thing to do.

    I think the deal worked out for both sides, which rarely happens, but fully agree to disagree on that (totally a matter of opinion, of course) :2thumbs:
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:35 pm
  • Popeyejones wrote:^^^ Yeah. Sorry.

    Running out the door but CB pay for this year was from Over The Cap or Spotrac (I don't remember which one I went to -- the one where it was easier to convert from APY to 2019 pay).

    14 million was from all the reporting. I'm guessing the discrepancy of 1 million is the snap % bonus. He needed 90% of snaps to get that bonus and had 87.5% and they gave it to him anyway because that was obviously the right thing to do.

    I think the deal worked out for both sides, which rarely happens, but fully agree to disagree on that (totally a matter of opinion, of course) :2thumbs:


    Popeye,

    Do you think the 9ers pay him next year?

    If I were them, I'd lock him in with a bonus-laden contract through 2023, especially as you guys took on the risk in getting him healthy. Even if he gets hurt again, he's now a major--and effective--PR voice for you guys. He's coaching young players. He more than anyone else could transition seamlessly to a staff role.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:23 pm
  • SixSeahawk wrote:Negotiated his own contract and it paid off handsomely.

    Is also on one of the best teams in the league.

    Smart guy.


    How is accepting an incentive laden deal smart?

    Richard's acting like it was HIS choice that he accepted a lowball guarantee contract with a bunch of incentives. He didn't have a choice.

    He was coming off a major injury and no one was willing to give him a big guarantee contract, if someone did, he would have taken it.

    So I guess congrats on being your own agent and accepting a run of the mill lowball guaranteed money contract with a bunch of incentives you met? But dude's acting like this was his plan, and how everyone should praise him.

    You took the ONLY deal you could get, and met most of your incentives. Which btw after meeting all of them still made you the 20th highest paid CB in the league or whatever. So why again did Richard win?
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:38 pm
  • I guess he won because people still want to continue to dwell on a guy who hasn't played here in 2 years.

    Go Hawks
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:28 am
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:^^^ Yeah. Sorry.

    Running out the door but CB pay for this year was from Over The Cap or Spotrac (I don't remember which one I went to -- the one where it was easier to convert from APY to 2019 pay).

    14 million was from all the reporting. I'm guessing the discrepancy of 1 million is the snap % bonus. He needed 90% of snaps to get that bonus and had 87.5% and they gave it to him anyway because that was obviously the right thing to do.

    I think the deal worked out for both sides, which rarely happens, but fully agree to disagree on that (totally a matter of opinion, of course) :2thumbs:


    Popeye,

    Do you think the 9ers pay him next year?

    If I were them, I'd lock him in with a bonus-laden contract through 2023, especially as you guys took on the risk in getting him healthy. Even if he gets hurt again, he's now a major--and effective--PR voice for you guys. He's coaching young players. He more than anyone else could transition seamlessly to a staff role.



    Oooh, no idea.

    They'll be cash strapped but they LOVE him.

    The hangup is that he's in line behind Kittle and Buckner (they're not going to start allocating beyond next year until they know how these two slot in long term) so what happens with him this summer kind of depends on what happens with them this summer.

    I'd guess it gets done though? They'll certainly offer I think but maybe not what Sherman wants (see Staley's extension which IIRC was pretty below market)
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:37 am
  • Popeyejones wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:^^^ Yeah. Sorry.

    Running out the door but CB pay for this year was from Over The Cap or Spotrac (I don't remember which one I went to -- the one where it was easier to convert from APY to 2019 pay).

    14 million was from all the reporting. I'm guessing the discrepancy of 1 million is the snap % bonus. He needed 90% of snaps to get that bonus and had 87.5% and they gave it to him anyway because that was obviously the right thing to do.

    I think the deal worked out for both sides, which rarely happens, but fully agree to disagree on that (totally a matter of opinion, of course) :2thumbs:


    Popeye,

    Do you think the 9ers pay him next year?

    If I were them, I'd lock him in with a bonus-laden contract through 2023, especially as you guys took on the risk in getting him healthy. Even if he gets hurt again, he's now a major--and effective--PR voice for you guys. He's coaching young players. He more than anyone else could transition seamlessly to a staff role.



    Oooh, no idea.

    They'll be cash strapped but they LOVE him.

    The hangup is that he's in line behind Kittle and Buckner (they're not going to start allocating beyond next year until they know how these two slot in long term) so what happens with him this summer kind of depends on what happens with them this summer.

    I'd guess it gets done though? They'll certainly offer I think but maybe not what Sherman wants (see Staley's extension which IIRC was pretty below market)


    Probably depends on what happens in the new collective bargaining agreement too???
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:07 am
  • I think if Richard gets a similar team-friendly deal akin to what he got before, he's going to stay.

    Sherm's incented to stay in SF, too, because it's the closest team to Seattle, where he still maintains his residence and at least one business. The cultural fit is very similar, and I think that's one reason why our fanbases are so enraptured with each other even if either never admits this.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:38 am
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:I think if Richard gets a similar team-friendly deal akin to what he got before, he's going to stay.

    Sherm's incented to stay in SF, too, because it's the closest team to Seattle, where he still maintains his residence and at least one business. The cultural fit is very similar, and I think that's one reason why our fanbases are so enraptured with each other even if either never admits this.


    While I do think Sherman likes SF, he'd be stupid to take another team friendly incentive laden deal. Not when he's now healthy and still can play well for another 3-4 years.

    He's got the leverage, and that's what new contract negotiations is all about. He can get a big deal with a ton of guaranteed money elsewhere, so I'd be shocked if he takes another deal like he had to before.

    One thing we can be sure of, whatever deal he takes will be the most amazing deal negotiated ever.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:50 pm
  • Sherman has sure come a long way since this...I wish he would of stayed. Good on him for making his own deal. Probably saved a ton of money!
    https://youtu.be/p9-Ui27ZI0k
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:12 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:I think if Richard gets a similar team-friendly deal akin to what he got before, he's going to stay.

    Sherm's incented to stay in SF, too, because it's the closest team to Seattle, where he still maintains his residence and at least one business. The cultural fit is very similar, and I think that's one reason why our fanbases are so enraptured with each other even if either never admits this.


    While I do think Sherman likes SF, he'd be stupid to take another team friendly incentive laden deal. Not when he's now healthy and still can play well for another 3-4 years.

    He's got the leverage, and that's what new contract negotiations is all about. He can get a big deal with a ton of guaranteed money elsewhere, so I'd be shocked if he takes another deal like he had to before.

    One thing we can be sure of, whatever deal he takes will be the most amazing deal negotiated ever.


    Not arguing that he'll take a small team friendly deal, but even now healthy, He's still 31. He still knows he's only got a few years left.

    Will be interesting to see what he does.

    If SF offers him a deal THIS offseason guaranteeing money into the future, I can see him taking a bit less, but other than to the players, he has no tie to the 49ers.

    If he moves on though there are only so many teams that might be interested. They'd have to run the same D and be interested in big money for 32 year old player. That means they'd need to see themselves as a contender.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:13 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:I think if Richard gets a similar team-friendly deal akin to what he got before, he's going to stay.

    Sherm's incented to stay in SF, too, because it's the closest team to Seattle, where he still maintains his residence and at least one business. The cultural fit is very similar, and I think that's one reason why our fanbases are so enraptured with each other even if either never admits this.


    While I do think Sherman likes SF, he'd be stupid to take another team friendly incentive laden deal. Not when he's now healthy and still can play well for another 3-4 years.

    He's got the leverage, and that's what new contract negotiations is all about. He can get a big deal with a ton of guaranteed money elsewhere, so I'd be shocked if he takes another deal like he had to before.

    One thing we can be sure of, whatever deal he takes will be the most amazing deal negotiated ever.


    Not arguing that he'll take a small team friendly deal, but even now healthy, He's still 31. He still knows he's only got a few years left.

    Will be interesting to see what he does.

    If SF offers him a deal THIS offseason guaranteeing money into the future, I can see him taking a bit less, but other than to the players, he has no tie to the 49ers.

    If he moves on though there are only so many teams that might be interested. They'd have to run the same D and be interested in big money for 32 year old player. That means they'd need to see themselves as a contender.


    You can spin it however you want but statistically Sherman is again a top 10 CB, and isn't even in the top 20 for salary WITH meeting all his incentives this year.

    https://overthecap.com/position/cornerback/

    So while again he may love playing in SF, I can guarantee you he's going to want one more big guaranteed contract to put him back in the top 10 highest paid CB's in the league............and for as important as the current state of the NFL defense for having as many good CB's as you can, and a shutdown CB like Richard who's now healthy?

    Someone's going to give it to him, and it might not be the Niners who only have 23M of cap space next year, and no cap space in 2021.

    Welcome to the Hawk's problem of 2013 and 2014. Lots of rookie contracts for important players coming up for negotiation and extensions.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:17 pm
  • He made the Pro Bowl again, so his market will be good, however he isn't the right body type to play a Safety so that transition probably won't happen, he is also at the point where even quick twitch bursty guys start dropping off as far as speed goes if your not named Darrell Green.

    I think he has one contract left and he may end next season as a back up / Mentor type guy.

    He proves people wrong all the time, but Father time is hard to get by.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:30 pm
  • Richard's a consummate businessman, but remember, when the Hawks released him, he got calls from other teams (Lions) as well. He didn't give them a sniff. He went straight to SF, negotiated a deal w/them, presented it back to Hawks and when they didn't match, he stayed with the 9ers.

    And that was Richard around the same time he formally married his GF, around the same time he had his second kid. Those milestones lead a man to settle down. But more than that, Richard solidified o pportunities in the Bay he never could have had otherwise. He wants to coach here, that'd be available. He wants to become even richer than he is, the door to Joe Montana's hedge fund is most likely open. He literally gets to be where the cultures are very similar, where his children are growing up, and where he's very comfortable.

    The Niners' cap space is tight, but it's Paarag Marathe (the pres) moveable. Paarag restructures deals all the time to get more cap space. He can do a lot with a little wiggle room.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:58 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:I think if Richard gets a similar team-friendly deal akin to what he got before, he's going to stay.

    Sherm's incented to stay in SF, too, because it's the closest team to Seattle, where he still maintains his residence and at least one business. The cultural fit is very similar, and I think that's one reason why our fanbases are so enraptured with each other even if either never admits this.


    While I do think Sherman likes SF, he'd be stupid to take another team friendly incentive laden deal. Not when he's now healthy and still can play well for another 3-4 years.

    He's got the leverage, and that's what new contract negotiations is all about. He can get a big deal with a ton of guaranteed money elsewhere, so I'd be shocked if he takes another deal like he had to before.

    One thing we can be sure of, whatever deal he takes will be the most amazing deal negotiated ever.


    Not arguing that he'll take a small team friendly deal, but even now healthy, He's still 31. He still knows he's only got a few years left.

    Will be interesting to see what he does.

    If SF offers him a deal THIS offseason guaranteeing money into the future, I can see him taking a bit less, but other than to the players, he has no tie to the 49ers.

    If he moves on though there are only so many teams that might be interested. They'd have to run the same D and be interested in big money for 32 year old player. That means they'd need to see themselves as a contender.


    You can spin it however you want but statistically Sherman is again a top 10 CB, and isn't even in the top 20 for salary WITH meeting all his incentives this year.

    https://overthecap.com/position/cornerback/

    So while again he may love playing in SF, I can guarantee you he's going to want one more big guaranteed contract to put him back in the top 10 highest paid CB's in the league............and for as important as the current state of the NFL defense for having as many good CB's as you can, and a shutdown CB like Richard who's now healthy?

    Someone's going to give it to him, and it might not be the Niners who only have 23M of cap space next year, and no cap space in 2021.

    Welcome to the Hawk's problem of 2013 and 2014. Lots of rookie contracts for important players coming up for negotiation and extensions.


    Sooooooo.....couple things there.....

    1) I'm not spinning anything. I am not making any prediction RE Sherman, so what is there to spin? All I'm sayin is he's not gonna get a huge contract at 32. Now maybe market value for 2-3 years, but not a blockbuster. Teams don't know how long he'll perform at this level. The guarantees were a BIG thing to him in the last contract negotiation (it was incentive heavy, but included guarantee for the next year and the ability to guarantee a year with perfromance...which he didn't have on his last Seattle deal). I agree he won't be looking for and incentive laden contract. I think he'll be looking for guarantees this time.

    2) The Niners aren't nearly as strapped as you make out. In 2020 they may be 23 mil under, but they are under now and will roll that space over. Also likely McKinnon is gone and Richburg has already restructured his contract and I don't think that's reflected. Goodwin likely gone as well. As for 2021 I think you need to read better. Unless you think the cap will DROP about 40 million, the only reason the Niners are listed with $0 in cap space is that there is no set cap yet...IE the site doesn't yet know what the salary cap will be. They have $0 in cap space for EVERY year after this one.

    If Dee Ford has another year like this one next year, they have an out after year 2 and that's 13 mil in savings. The Niners could even extend Sherman, restructuring next years $$$ and end up with MORE space.

    This isn't to say that the 49ers won't eventually have cap issues, but you are GREATLY overstating them in the near future.

    Should also be noted that the CBA expires after 2020 (and thats a big reason they don't know what the cap will be) but it is very likely the players will demand a bigger share of revenue and the cap will go up. Dramatically.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:00 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:He made the Pro Bowl again, so his market will be good, however he isn't the right body type to play a Safety so that transition probably won't happen, he is also at the point where even quick twitch bursty guys start dropping off as far as speed goes if your not named Darrell Green.

    I think he has one contract left and he may end next season as a back up / Mentor type guy.

    He proves people wrong all the time, but Father time is hard to get by.


    Father Time is undefeated.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:03 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    While I do think Sherman likes SF, he'd be stupid to take another team friendly incentive laden deal. Not when he's now healthy and still can play well for another 3-4 years.

    He's got the leverage, and that's what new contract negotiations is all about. He can get a big deal with a ton of guaranteed money elsewhere, so I'd be shocked if he takes another deal like he had to before.

    One thing we can be sure of, whatever deal he takes will be the most amazing deal negotiated ever.


    Not arguing that he'll take a small team friendly deal, but even now healthy, He's still 31. He still knows he's only got a few years left.

    Will be interesting to see what he does.

    If SF offers him a deal THIS offseason guaranteeing money into the future, I can see him taking a bit less, but other than to the players, he has no tie to the 49ers.

    If he moves on though there are only so many teams that might be interested. They'd have to run the same D and be interested in big money for 32 year old player. That means they'd need to see themselves as a contender.


    You can spin it however you want but statistically Sherman is again a top 10 CB, and isn't even in the top 20 for salary WITH meeting all his incentives this year.

    https://overthecap.com/position/cornerback/

    So while again he may love playing in SF, I can guarantee you he's going to want one more big guaranteed contract to put him back in the top 10 highest paid CB's in the league............and for as important as the current state of the NFL defense for having as many good CB's as you can, and a shutdown CB like Richard who's now healthy?

    Someone's going to give it to him, and it might not be the Niners who only have 23M of cap space next year, and no cap space in 2021.

    Welcome to the Hawk's problem of 2013 and 2014. Lots of rookie contracts for important players coming up for negotiation and extensions.


    Sooooooo.....couple things there.....

    1) I'm not spinning anything. I am not making any prediction RE Sherman, so what is there to spin? All I'm sayin is he's not gonna get a huge contract at 32. Now maybe market value for 2-3 years, but not a blockbuster. Teams don't know how long he'll perform at this level. The guarantees were a BIG thing to him in the last contract negotiation. I agree he won't be looking for and incentive laden contract. I think he'll be looking for guarantees this time.

    2) The Niners aren't nearly as strapped as you make out. In 2020 they may be 23 mil under, but they are under now and will roll that space over. Also likely McKinnon is gone and Richburg has already restructured his contract and I don't think that's reflected. Goodwin likely gone as well. As for 2021 I think you need to read better. Unless you think the cap will DROP about 40 million, the only reason the Niners are listed with $0 in cap space is that there is no set cap yet...IE the site doesn't yet know what the salary cap will be. They have $0 in cap space for EVERY year after this one.

    If Dee Ford has another year like this one next year, they have an out after year 2 and that's 13 mil in savings. The Niners could even extend Sherman, restructuring next years $$$ and end up with MORE space.

    This isn't to say that the 49ers won't eventually have cap issues, but you are GREATLY overstating them in the near future.

    Should also be noted that the CBA expires after 2020 (and thats a big reason they don't know what the cap will be) but it is very likely the players will demand a bigger share of revenue and the cap will go up. Dramatically.


    I only said spin because you're spinning a way for Sherman to stay with the Niners because;

    1. He loves it there
    2. He's not going to be in as demand as I think

    So while I think you are correct on #1, I do not think you are correct on #2. Sherman's a top 10 CB, maybe even top 5, regardless of scheme or age..........and I disagree with you completely that the market is going to be cold for him.

    CB's are too important for a CB like Richard not to break the bank with someone. That's what we were saying about Earl, too old, too hurt, too dependent on system, and Baltimore made him the highest paid safety.

    Richard might not become the highest paid CB, but believe me he's going to get paid. Either by SF, or someone else. So if you think you're going to get another team friendly deal out of him? Good luck.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:46 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Not arguing that he'll take a small team friendly deal, but even now healthy, He's still 31. He still knows he's only got a few years left.

    Will be interesting to see what he does.

    If SF offers him a deal THIS offseason guaranteeing money into the future, I can see him taking a bit less, but other than to the players, he has no tie to the 49ers.

    If he moves on though there are only so many teams that might be interested. They'd have to run the same D and be interested in big money for 32 year old player. That means they'd need to see themselves as a contender.


    You can spin it however you want but statistically Sherman is again a top 10 CB, and isn't even in the top 20 for salary WITH meeting all his incentives this year.

    https://overthecap.com/position/cornerback/

    So while again he may love playing in SF, I can guarantee you he's going to want one more big guaranteed contract to put him back in the top 10 highest paid CB's in the league............and for as important as the current state of the NFL defense for having as many good CB's as you can, and a shutdown CB like Richard who's now healthy?

    Someone's going to give it to him, and it might not be the Niners who only have 23M of cap space next year, and no cap space in 2021.

    Welcome to the Hawk's problem of 2013 and 2014. Lots of rookie contracts for important players coming up for negotiation and extensions.


    Sooooooo.....couple things there.....

    1) I'm not spinning anything. I am not making any prediction RE Sherman, so what is there to spin? All I'm sayin is he's not gonna get a huge contract at 32. Now maybe market value for 2-3 years, but not a blockbuster. Teams don't know how long he'll perform at this level. The guarantees were a BIG thing to him in the last contract negotiation. I agree he won't be looking for and incentive laden contract. I think he'll be looking for guarantees this time.

    2) The Niners aren't nearly as strapped as you make out. In 2020 they may be 23 mil under, but they are under now and will roll that space over. Also likely McKinnon is gone and Richburg has already restructured his contract and I don't think that's reflected. Goodwin likely gone as well. As for 2021 I think you need to read better. Unless you think the cap will DROP about 40 million, the only reason the Niners are listed with $0 in cap space is that there is no set cap yet...IE the site doesn't yet know what the salary cap will be. They have $0 in cap space for EVERY year after this one.

    If Dee Ford has another year like this one next year, they have an out after year 2 and that's 13 mil in savings. The Niners could even extend Sherman, restructuring next years $$$ and end up with MORE space.

    This isn't to say that the 49ers won't eventually have cap issues, but you are GREATLY overstating them in the near future.

    Should also be noted that the CBA expires after 2020 (and thats a big reason they don't know what the cap will be) but it is very likely the players will demand a bigger share of revenue and the cap will go up. Dramatically.


    I only said spin because you're spinning a way for Sherman to stay with the Niners because;

    1. He loves it there
    2. He's not going to be in as demand as I think

    So while I think you are correct on #1, I do not think you are correct on #2. Sherman's a top 10 CB, maybe even top 5, regardless of scheme or age..........and I disagree with you completely that the market is going to be cold for him.

    CB's are too important for a CB like Richard not to break the bank with someone. That's what we were saying about Earl, too old, too hurt, too dependent on system, and Baltimore made him the highest paid safety.

    Richard might not become the highest paid CB, but believe me he's going to get paid. Either by SF, or someone else. So if you think you're going to get another team friendly deal out of him? Good luck.


    1) I didn't say he loves it here. I said he has no ties here. I don't think he'd be loyal to the Niners after only a few years. He see's writing on the wall and is looking for $$$ to finish his career.

    2) I think there will be a demand for him. I think the issue is that he only really fits a specific style of D and that limits the number of teams who would see him as an option. Among those teams, you'd be looking for a team that feels they can pay top dollar for a 32 year old CB...IE it would have to be a team that thinks they can compete for a title. Otherwise, makes no sense to make huge investment for aging player.

    I am not saying that there aren't multiple teams that would fit that criteria. In all honesty, we have no idea who might fit that bill until NEXT offseason.

    As for the comparison to Earl....there is a big difference between safety and corner. Safeties don't become corners late in their careers.

    BTW, I never said he WOULD take a discount to stay in SF. I think he'll be looking for the best deal to finish his career. In that case, I think he'll be looking for guarantees. I think the only way he MIGHT take a discount is if...

    1) They guarantee a few years for him at a slightly discounted rate...thus enabling him to be sure he gets good $$$ and isn't cut after 1 year...

    or

    2) He regresses next year and the offers aren't what he wants.

    To be clear, this isn't what I am EXPECTING. I have no expectations right now other than he is likely to be a Niner next year.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Marvin49
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:06 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    To be clear, this isn't what I am EXPECTING. I have no expectations right now other than he is likely to be a Niner next year.


    I can't imagine any scenario where Richard goes to training camp next summer without a new long term deal. No way in hell he's fine with finishing out his contract with the Niners for 10M in 2020.

    So either the Niners have to pony up and give him a new deal, or they trade him to a team that will.

    But no Niner fan should be thinking Richard's cool with finishing out his Niner deal in 2020. Why would he do that? He's got the leverage hammer now, and since this is going to be his last chance at a big deal with bigtime guaranteed money, he's going to swing that leverage hammer.

    So the question now is do you think the Niners give him a big deal, or do you think they're OK with trading him for a middle round pick and let him walk to a team that will?
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:52 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    To be clear, this isn't what I am EXPECTING. I have no expectations right now other than he is likely to be a Niner next year.


    I can't imagine any scenario where Richard goes to training camp next summer without a new long term deal. No way in hell he's fine with finishing out his contract with the Niners for 10M in 2020.

    So either the Niners have to pony up and give him a new deal, or they trade him to a team that will.

    But no Niner fan should be thinking Richard's cool with finishing out his Niner deal in 2020. Why would he do that? He's got the leverage hammer now, and since this is going to be his last chance at a big deal with bigtime guaranteed money, he's going to swing that leverage hammer.

    So the question now is do you think the Niners give him a big deal, or do you think they're OK with trading him for a middle round pick and let him walk to a team that will?


    um...he'd be under contract bro. LOL.

    He may not be cool with it, but they have him under contract at that number. I don't see him walking away from a guaranteed 10 mil contract after betting on himself to earn it.

    Will the Niners pony up big $$$ for him? No idea. Certainly not on a long term deal.

    I think there is a misconception though. You guys are looking at this through the lens of prime Richard Sherman before getting cut. You are looking at the Sherman who was in Seattle.

    Now maybe you are 100% correct and he's in it for every dollar he can squeeze. Dunno. The feeling I got tho in reading his reactions to the contract he signed and why he accepted what he did was that he was interested in the guarantees and the ability to pick up what he lost in Seattle with incentives. I totally agree that a healthy Sherman won't take those incentives this time around, but the reality is that its now 2 years later and he's seen that ANYONE can be cut and the contract means nothing to teams if the $$$ aren't guaranteed.

    What does that mean? It means I have no idea how this is gonna go. Nobody does. I am not and will not assert that he will for sure accept less.

    Do I think the Niners would pay him huge? Probably not, but who knows.

    I will tell you one thing RE loyalty tho and I have no idea if it matters or not....

    ....one of the incentives in his contract was that he play 90% of the defensive snaps this year.

    Sherman injured his hamstring and missed a game which would make it impossible to hit that 90%.

    The 49ers told him they'd let hi hit that incentive anyway so that he didn't feel the need to push himself back and get re injured.

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/49ers/article/49ers-took-a-chance-on-Richard-Sherman-it-s-14922638.php

    Sherman said Wednesday that Lynch agreed to give him a $1 million playing-time incentive he wouldn’t otherwise have earned this season. Sherman needed to play 90% of the snaps to earn the incentive. He’s played 85.5% of the snaps with two regular-season games remaining.

    Sherman revealed he’d receive his playing-time incentive when asked if that $1 million bonus provided more motivation to not miss games due to injury.

    “John and I had a conversation early in the year about that,” Sherman said. “And they … had already given me that incentive. So there’s no incentive for me, in terms of financial, for me to be like, ‘I’ve got to come back to get this amount of money.’ It’s always what’s best for the team.”

    That good-faith gesture could have been inspired by Sherman’s performance both on and off the field.
    Last edited by Marvin49 on Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Marvin49
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:58 pm
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    To be clear, this isn't what I am EXPECTING. I have no expectations right now other than he is likely to be a Niner next year.


    I can't imagine any scenario where Richard goes to training camp next summer without a new long term deal. No way in hell he's fine with finishing out his contract with the Niners for 10M in 2020.

    So either the Niners have to pony up and give him a new deal, or they trade him to a team that will.

    But no Niner fan should be thinking Richard's cool with finishing out his Niner deal in 2020. Why would he do that? He's got the leverage hammer now, and since this is going to be his last chance at a big deal with bigtime guaranteed money, he's going to swing that leverage hammer.

    So the question now is do you think the Niners give him a big deal, or do you think they're OK with trading him for a middle round pick and let him walk to a team that will?


    um...he'd be under contract bro. LOL..


    C'mon, what player coming off a Pro Bowl caliber year going into the last year of a low-ball contract didn't demand a new deal?

    I'd be shocked if Richard's cool with playing out his deal at 10M.

    We'll see.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:59 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:So the question now is do you think the Niners give him a big deal, or do you think they're OK with trading him for a middle round pick and let him walk to a team that will?


    I think the 9ers offer him more on a 2 year for some more money, guaranteed, and I think he takes that over a Detroit or Carolina or Indy or Dallas who offer a bit more. I mean, if they offer him 30M, he's gonna go. But I doubt anyone will.

    Sherm's one of the smartest men in the league. He has seen all his teammates except BWags and KJ retire. He's always been looking beyond to the next thing. His being here, his humint skills, makes that happen. He could invest in any number of SV ventures here that'd take off b/c of him and become even more infinitesimally more wealthy than he already is without harming his body more. If they win the ring this year, it might even be the year he hangs it up.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:04 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    To be clear, this isn't what I am EXPECTING. I have no expectations right now other than he is likely to be a Niner next year.


    I can't imagine any scenario where Richard goes to training camp next summer without a new long term deal. No way in hell he's fine with finishing out his contract with the Niners for 10M in 2020.

    So either the Niners have to pony up and give him a new deal, or they trade him to a team that will.

    But no Niner fan should be thinking Richard's cool with finishing out his Niner deal in 2020. Why would he do that? He's got the leverage hammer now, and since this is going to be his last chance at a big deal with bigtime guaranteed money, he's going to swing that leverage hammer.

    So the question now is do you think the Niners give him a big deal, or do you think they're OK with trading him for a middle round pick and let him walk to a team that will?


    um...he'd be under contract bro. LOL..


    C'mon, what player coming off a Pro Bowl caliber year going into the last year of a low-ball contract didn't demand a new deal?

    I'd be shocked if Richard's cool with playing out his deal at 10M.

    We'll see.


    As I've said...I have no idea what's going to happen. I just find it hard to believe he'd work out his contract specifically to include a guaranteed year if he hits specific escalators, hit them guaranteeing the next year under contract....and then hold out. Doesn't make sense to me. Otherwise he could have just made it a 2 year deal and be a free agent. He didn't do that. He wanted the guarantees.

    However, I don't put anything outside the realm of possibility. We'll see.
    Marvin49
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:06 pm
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:So the question now is do you think the Niners give him a big deal, or do you think they're OK with trading him for a middle round pick and let him walk to a team that will?


    I think the 9ers offer him more on a 2 year for some more money, guaranteed, and I think he takes that over a Detroit or Carolina or Indy or Dallas who offer a bit more. I mean, if they offer him 30M, he's gonna go. But I doubt anyone will.

    Sherm's one of the smartest men in the league. He has seen all his teammates except BWags and KJ retire. He's always been looking beyond to the next thing. His being here, his humint skills, makes that happen. He could invest in any number of SV ventures here that'd take off b/c of him and become even more infinitesimally more wealthy than he already is without harming his body more. If they win the ring this year, it might even be the year he hangs it up.


    Could be, but I doubt it.

    If they win it this year, my guess is he takes that last year of guaranteed $$$ and tries to do it again.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:29 pm
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:Richard's a consummate businessman, but remember, when the Hawks released him, he got calls from other teams (Lions) as well. He didn't give them a sniff. He went straight to SF, negotiated a deal w/them, presented it back to Hawks and when they didn't match, he stayed with the 9ers.

    And that was Richard around the same time he formally married his GF, around the same time he had his second kid. Those milestones lead a man to settle down. But more than that, Richard solidified o pportunities in the Bay he never could have had otherwise. He wants to coach here, that'd be available. He wants to become even richer than he is, the door to Joe Montana's hedge fund is most likely open. He literally gets to be where the cultures are very similar, where his children are growing up, and where he's very comfortable.

    The Niners' cap space is tight, but it's Paarag Marathe (the pres) moveable. Paarag restructures deals all the time to get more cap space. He can do a lot with a little wiggle room.


    Fast Eddie is needed again me thinks :)
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:35 pm
  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:So the question now is do you think the Niners give him a big deal, or do you think they're OK with trading him for a middle round pick and let him walk to a team that will?


    I think the 9ers offer him more on a 2 year for some more money, guaranteed, and I think he takes that over a Detroit or Carolina or Indy or Dallas who offer a bit more. I mean, if they offer him 30M, he's gonna go. But I doubt anyone will.

    Sherm's one of the smartest men in the league. He has seen all his teammates except BWags and KJ retire. He's always been looking beyond to the next thing. His being here, his humint skills, makes that happen. He could invest in any number of SV ventures here that'd take off b/c of him and become even more infinitesimally more wealthy than he already is without harming his body more. If they win the ring this year, it might even be the year he hangs it up.


    He's good Friends with Marshawn Lynch, Lynch has helped set up multiple team mates with investments for retirement, remember he has never touched any of his NFL salary money and does pretty damn well, I would not be surprised if he didn't have things already matured having played with Lynch so many years.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:34 am
  • Marvin49 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    I can't imagine any scenario where Richard goes to training camp next summer without a new long term deal. No way in hell he's fine with finishing out his contract with the Niners for 10M in 2020.

    So either the Niners have to pony up and give him a new deal, or they trade him to a team that will.

    But no Niner fan should be thinking Richard's cool with finishing out his Niner deal in 2020. Why would he do that? He's got the leverage hammer now, and since this is going to be his last chance at a big deal with bigtime guaranteed money, he's going to swing that leverage hammer.

    So the question now is do you think the Niners give him a big deal, or do you think they're OK with trading him for a middle round pick and let him walk to a team that will?


    um...he'd be under contract bro. LOL..


    C'mon, what player coming off a Pro Bowl caliber year going into the last year of a low-ball contract didn't demand a new deal?

    I'd be shocked if Richard's cool with playing out his deal at 10M.

    We'll see.


    As I've said...I have no idea what's going to happen. I just find it hard to believe he'd work out his contract specifically to include a guaranteed year if he hits specific escalators, hit them guaranteeing the next year under contract....and then hold out. Doesn't make sense to me. Otherwise he could have just made it a 2 year deal and be a free agent. He didn't do that. He wanted the guarantees.

    However, I don't put anything outside the realm of possibility. We'll see.


    It makes perfect sense if you'd like to make 15M a year for 3-4 years with 40-50M guaranteed instead of one year guaranteed at 10M.
    Sgt. Largent
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:33 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    um...he'd be under contract bro. LOL..


    C'mon, what player coming off a Pro Bowl caliber year going into the last year of a low-ball contract didn't demand a new deal?

    I'd be shocked if Richard's cool with playing out his deal at 10M.

    We'll see.


    As I've said...I have no idea what's going to happen. I just find it hard to believe he'd work out his contract specifically to include a guaranteed year if he hits specific escalators, hit them guaranteeing the next year under contract....and then hold out. Doesn't make sense to me. Otherwise he could have just made it a 2 year deal and be a free agent. He didn't do that. He wanted the guarantees.

    However, I don't put anything outside the realm of possibility. We'll see.


    It makes perfect sense if you'd like to make 15M a year for 3-4 years with 40-50M guaranteed instead of one year guaranteed at 10M.


    You could very well be right. I don't think that contract will be out there for him....well unless the new CBA like doubles the cap or something.

    I'm not saying its impossible though. I just doubt it.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:46 pm
  • If I'm SF I plan to get the last year out of him then let him walk. Just like we did with Earl. Giving a 32 year old corner a big guaranteed deal for 2-3 years beyond 2020 is foolhardy and there is no reason to do it when you've got cap considerations for Armstead, Buckner, Warner, Kittle, etc coming up. I'd be drafting young corners and squeezing a last year from Sherman.

    If I'm Sherman I might ask for a new deal, and maybe threaten a hold out. But no one is going to seriously believe a player is going to leave 10 million on the table at age 32. Especially at corner. Earl Thomas was in that same spot and played the season and became a FA. And he was only 29.

    You only hold out when you are young and have years to make it up. If you are a 32 year old football player, you take the money and run.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:29 pm
  • JGfromtheNW wrote:He's lucky he's been able to bounce back because, IMO, it's still a bad contract for anyone that considers themself a top CB in the league. 49ers are still the winners on that deal. Meeting all of his incentives this year netted him somewhere around $13MM this season which definitely helps, but that barely cracks top 10 CB salary in 2019.

    What do agents make, though? 10%? Bump his salary up by that much and where does it compare?
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:04 am
  • Many jeered him in here and beyond ; and he had the last laugh . He is looked up to by the team and has been very instrumental in bringing swagger back to their defense . He has tons of playoff experience ; and I wouldn't be surprised if he has a game changing play in these playoffs . He will get his $$ going forward . IMO
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:24 pm
  • xray wrote:Many jeered him in here and beyond ; and he had the last laugh . He is looked up to by the team and has been very instrumental in bringing swagger back to their defense . He has tons of playoff experience ; and I wouldn't be surprised if he has a game changing play in these playoffs . He will get his $$ going forward . IMO

    And he gets the interception ...just like that. :D
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:53 pm
  • People that said it was a bad contract simply didn't get it. He had just been injured. Any guaranteed contracts would have been for minimal money due to the injury

    So you write one with big incentives if you recover which hits automatically. If you don't recover you actually don't lose anything and if you recover you aren't stuck with a low paying contract

    I said it at the time and it turned out good because he recovered, but it was actually never going to not work out. If he never recovers he would not made much but there was no option paying a ton of money...
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:38 pm
  • Sherman won. He is playing for a superbowl appearance. Hawks haven't been back yet depending on tomorrow.
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:42 pm
  • Sherm won his contract and he is smart but he let his ego get the better of him.

    Kam will go down as everyone’s all-time favorite LOB member.
    TheLegendOfBoom
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Re: Richard Sherman won
Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:08 pm
  • Dude is awesome. We are glad to have him. He makes a big difference on our team.

    :229031_thewave: :229031_thewave:
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