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ESPN: Giants finalizing deal to hire Joe Judge from the Pats

Discuss any and all NFL-related topics. Ex-Seahawks fall into NFL topics. LANGUAGE: PG-13
  • Per ESPN First Take, which is on now.

    Judge is the Pats' WR coach.

    This surprises me more than the Rhule hire. Hiring position-line coaches as HC usually doesn't work out (see Tomsula).

    It also makes me wonder how strong the market for Josh McDaniels really was with all the openings now filled, two with people with less experience than McDaniels had.

    Methinks this reflects on Belichick, too. It's not being widely said, yet, but his authoritarian style is exponentially falling out of favor. Vrabel just played under Belichick. All those that Belichick actually coached under have gone on to lose--Mangini, McDaniels, Patricia, Flores. And in Flores' case, he's getting a break only because he and Ross conditioned the fans during preseason to accept TankforTua for 2019.

    Belichick himself is on his way to becoming a Coughlin or a Parcells, neither of which grew any sort of coaching tree. Going forward, he appears to be headed into NFL parity mode where his militaristic drill sergeant approach is being more and more a liability.

    ETA: The Browns vacancy is not yet filled, so McDaniels going there is still a poss. Yeah, it worked out GREAT under Mangini.
    Last edited by SantaClaraHawk on Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Giants Coaching Moves
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:35 am

Re: Giants Coaching Moves
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:50 am
  • Bilicheat's coaching tree is finally looking like it's producing results so time to jump on the bandwagon?

    Suppose Pats coaches are putting themselves out there more aggressively given the perceived downward trend of the franchise as well.
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Re: Giants Coaching Moves
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:26 pm
  • Don't forget they are also eyeing Garrett for OC. This is all kinds of stupid.
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Re: Giants Coaching Moves
Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:30 pm


  • Who??
    Cyrus12
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  • OK, now ESPN is saying these interviews are racist b/c Bienemy didn't make the finalists and Rivera did. And again Florio joins in: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... t-working/

    First, Rivera is Hispanic and thus falls under the Rooney Rule.

    Second, you could use this argument to say why does 14.5 percent of the US population have 70 percent of the NFL player jobs, all lucrative? You say blacks have a physical edge, that becomes racist. explain how a group of 95 percent old white billionaires gets all progressive then.
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  • Raise your hand if you knew who Joe Judge was before today..........and if you did, go outside and spend more time with humans.

    My guess is the Giants asked Josh McDaniels to come interview, and he laughed them off the phone. So they were like "hey, who else can we hire off the Patriots? Judge Judy? Joe Fudge? Who? Sure, hire that guy, close enough!"
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  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Belichick himself is on his way to becoming a Coughlin or a Parcells, neither of which grew any sort of coaching tree. Going forward, he appears to be headed into NFL parity mode where his militaristic drill sergeant approach is being more and more a liability.


    Parcell's tree is decent: Belichick, Payton, Zimmer, Lynn.
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  • kobebryant wrote:
    SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    Belichick himself is on his way to becoming a Coughlin or a Parcells, neither of which grew any sort of coaching tree. Going forward, he appears to be headed into NFL parity mode where his militaristic drill sergeant approach is being more and more a liability.


    Parcell's tree is decent: Belichick, Payton, Zimmer, Lynn.


    Currently in the league. Amusingly, Coughlin is also part of the Parcells tree.
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  • My fault, I didn't know Payton and Zimmer were under the Parcells umbrella.

    But still, BB's coaching tree is...a stump. Teams have hired there for over a decade now, and his hires never work out. Not at the HC coach level, anyway.

    Compare this to the Bill Walsh tree: His branches include PC, Mike Shanahan, and the elder Shan yields KS, Lefleur, McVay. Even McCarthy has Walshian roots.
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  • This whole thing stinks of wanting Garrett, almost everything I read has said they want Garrett as OC and "if that don't work out" we will have Garrett.

    There was also the statement made in one article about Jerry purposely holding back on letting Garrett go as not to be available to interview for the Giants job also.

    Will be interested to see how this plays out.
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  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:My fault, I didn't know Payton and Zimmer were under the Parcells umbrella.

    But still, BB's coaching tree is...a stump. Teams have hired there for over a decade now, and his hires never work out. Not at the HC coach level, anyway.

    Compare this to the Bill Walsh tree: His branches include PC, Mike Shanahan, and the elder Shan yields KS, Lefleur, McVay. Even McCarthy has Walshian roots.


    Carroll did work under Walsh but he is a Bud Grant guy more then anything.
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    12AngryHawks
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  • I just don't see how hiring a WR coach to be your head coach makes sense? Because he was with the Patriots and he will bring the Patriots way? Wouldn't you want at least a coordinator? Really a position coach up to head coach? Wow is all I can say.

    :shock:
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  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:Per ESPN First Take, which is on now.

    Judge is the Pats' WR coach.

    This surprises me more than the Rhule hire. Hiring position-line coaches as HC usually doesn't work out (see Tomsula).

    It also makes me wonder how strong the market for Josh McDaniels really was with all the openings now filled, two with people with less experience than McDaniels had.

    Methinks this reflects on Belichick, too. It's not being widely said, yet, but his authoritarian style is exponentially falling out of favor. Vrabel just played under Belichick. All those that Belichick actually coached under have gone on to lose--Mangini, McDaniels, Patricia, Flores. And in Flores' case, he's getting a break only because he and Ross conditioned the fans during preseason to accept TankforTua for 2019.

    Belichick himself is on his way to becoming a Coughlin or a Parcells, neither of which grew any sort of coaching tree. Going forward, he appears to be headed into NFL parity mode where his militaristic drill sergeant approach is being more and more a liability.

    ETA: The Browns vacancy is not yet filled, so McDaniels going there is still a poss. Yeah, it worked out GREAT under Mangini.


    Tomsula was hired because the York family was lazy and inexperienced as owners. They just wanted to get it done and were famous for these internal hires and yes men. They just wanted to fill the slot after they fired Harbaugh. They went through many different coaches just tying to fill it out so they don't have to be bothered by the search. They just didn't want to pay Harbaugh more money on a new contract. Eventually after many failed coaches and GM's they finally brought in Shanahan and John Lynch. Now things have turned around.

    But really they are not great owners. They just got lucky here with 2 good hires. Mostly they just fill the slots out and don't want to be bothered by extensive and long term searches for a GM or coach.
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  • SanDiego49er wrote:Tomsula was hired because the York family was lazy and inexperienced as owners. They just wanted to get it done and were famous for these internal hires and yes men. They just wanted to fill the slot after they fired Harbaugh. They went through many different coaches just tying to fill it out so they don't have to be bothered by the search. They just didn't want to pay Harbaugh more money on a new contract. Eventually after many failed coaches and GM's they finally brought in Shanahan and John Lynch. Now things have turned around.

    But really they are not great owners. They just got lucky here with 2 good hires. Mostly they just fill the slots out and don't want to be bothered by extensive and long term searches for a GM or coach.


    From what I've read, a big factor in Judge's hiring was his ST experience. ST coaches' job description is working with both offensive and defensive players without getting to choose either, which would theoretically translate into less power struggles with their GM.

    Tomsula's hire was more about being a "players' coach" but even more comforting Baalke and Jed, a "fix" for what they'd identified as their immediate-need problems. Harbaugh had been dissing Jed by failing to show up for the "red-carpet" promotions for then-new Levi's, he was increasingly publicly fighting with Baalke through the media, and being fairly disliked by the press as well as the FO.

    I am not surprised they fired him, more surprised that they didn't promote Fangio or hire Adam Gase or really look at other candidates with coordinator/HC experience. That was all Jed/Baalke , fans were furious, and Jed's reputation rapidly plummeted to near Snyder depths. Like Snyder with Allen, things only got better when he jettisoned Baalke and took a step back from meddling, thus attracting Shan/Lynch.

    Speaking of the Redskins, that's where Tomsula went after a year off, to be their DL coach. He and most other coaches were fired as part of the Rivera housecleaning, with Tomsula now set to work at the Cowboys in that same position under McCarthy.
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  • SantaClaraHawk wrote:
    SanDiego49er wrote:Tomsula was hired because the York family was lazy and inexperienced as owners. They just wanted to get it done and were famous for these internal hires and yes men. They just wanted to fill the slot after they fired Harbaugh. They went through many different coaches just tying to fill it out so they don't have to be bothered by the search. They just didn't want to pay Harbaugh more money on a new contract. Eventually after many failed coaches and GM's they finally brought in Shanahan and John Lynch. Now things have turned around.

    But really they are not great owners. They just got lucky here with 2 good hires. Mostly they just fill the slots out and don't want to be bothered by extensive and long term searches for a GM or coach.


    From what I've read, a big factor in Judge's hiring was his ST experience. ST coaches' job description is working with both offensive and defensive players without getting to choose either, which would theoretically translate into less power struggles with their GM.

    Tomsula's hire was more about being a "players' coach" but even more comforting Baalke and Jed, a "fix" for what they'd identified as their immediate-need problems. Harbaugh had been dissing Jed by failing to show up for the "red-carpet" promotions for then-new Levi's, he was increasingly publicly fighting with Baalke through the media, and being fairly disliked by the press as well as the FO.

    I am not surprised they fired him, more surprised that they didn't promote Fangio or hire Adam Gase or really look at other candidates with coordinator/HC experience. That was all Jed/Baalke , fans were furious, and Jed's reputation rapidly plummeted to near Snyder depths. Like Snyder with Allen, things only got better when he jettisoned Baalke and took a step back from meddling, thus attracting Shan/Lynch.

    Speaking of the Redskins, that's where Tomsula went after a year off, to be their DL coach. He and most other coaches were fired as part of the Rivera housecleaning, with Tomsula now set to work at the Cowboys in that same position under McCarthy.


    I think Tomsula can be a good position coach. Just keep him far away from the head coaching job for all time. They say the same thing pretty much on the 49ersWebzone. LOL.
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