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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:47 am 
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Could you guys imagine 49ers grabbing DeAndre Hopkins and Ryan Swope both? Eddie Lacy to back up Gore? Tyler Eifert or Zach Ertz as their second TE?

Or trade up and grab a solid DT to eventually replace Justin Smith?

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:50 am 
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Chiefs fans' reaction to this move, with a hat tip to @FauxJohnMadden on Twitter:


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:54 am 
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Got to hand it to the 49ers, this is the kind of move that allows you unlimited flexibility. They are going to be able to stack that roster. Yuck


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:58 am 
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The NFL should investigate to find out whether Andy Reid was roofied by a 49ers employee prior to this. I can totally see Jim Harbaugh keeping a baggy in his pocket with some Rohypnol.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:00 am 
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Horrible news for the Hawks. Can't believe people were trying to spin this as a good thing for us (increasing Flynn's value)


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:03 am 
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wow first pick in the second round, conditional pick next year. We'll probably have to hold Flynn w/ no market. Sweet :49ersmall:

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:05 am 
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I hope Alex flourishes over in KC. The dudes been through hell and back. I am a little jealous of all the picks the niners get this year but I think in the end it will be RW that tilts the scale in our favor. Anyone anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:07 am 
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Now that Alex Smith is out of SF, I am actually going to root for the guy to succeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:07 am 
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SuperHawks wrote:
Horrible news for the Hawks. Can't believe people were trying to spin this as a good thing for us (increasing Flynn's value)


It's not truly horrible until after we see what happens with the draft. Just merely getting the picks, in and of itself, isn't a bad thing for the Hawks.

It also isn't necessarily positive for the Seahawks either. Just because there's one team that overpayed for a starting qb doesn't mean another will overpay for a backup qb.

With that said though, we did get a pick for Jackson, which many didn't believe to be possible, so Flynn should attract SOME attention and given Smith's price tag, we can push the envelope a little and try for a higher pick.

The Niners had 11 picks to our 10. if the stories are true that they get a 2nd round pick, that puts them at 12 to our 10. Still not a horrible difference. They do have (I believe) a thrid and a second round pick now over us, but we have more picks later. Honestly, both teams have a pretty solid core of starters, and the draft is mostly for depth, so I really don't see it as too big of an issue right now.

Of course come draft day we'll know for sure just what they are doing, but honestly, I have faith that even with the extra picks, we can have a relatively close to even draft day with them, and will still go into next season primed to contend for the NFC West crown.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:09 am 
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Kid, while you have a valid point, the fact remains that even a broken clock is right twice per day and the 49ers have so many picks this year, and the draft is widely considered to be one of the deepest ever, that they could randomly throw darts at their draft board to determine who to grab and likely come away with a couple of new starters.

This sucks. I hope we beat their asses black & blue both times this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:14 am 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
Kid, while you have a valid point, the fact remains that even a broken clock is right twice per day and the 49ers have so many picks this year, and the draft is widely considered to be one of the deepest ever, that they could randomly throw darts at their draft board to determine who to grab and likely come away with a couple of new starters.

This sucks. I hope we beat their asses black & blue both times this year.


That possibility is there for sure, I'm not saying it isn't, but they haven't done it yet, and honestly, they have a lot of starters returning this year, so they will be mostly drafting for depth.

I think this draft does more for them in a few years to keep them in contention, than it will do for them this upcoming season.

I still will wait and see what actually happens in the draft before I start to worry...I'd also like to believe that as long as we continue to have Kaepernick's number like we did last year, it won't matter :)

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:23 am 
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The Niners had 14 picks prior to this one if you include compensatory picks, which includes an expected 3rd rounder... This is just insane now.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:26 am 
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QuickLightning wrote:
The Niners had 14 picks prior to this one if you include compensatory picks, which includes an expected 3rd rounder... This is just insane now.


Have they announced compensatory picks or is this just the speculation? I hadn't heard that they announced them yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:33 am 
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kidhawk wrote:
QuickLightning wrote:
The Niners had 14 picks prior to this one if you include compensatory picks, which includes an expected 3rd rounder... This is just insane now.


Have they announced compensatory picks or is this just the speculation? I hadn't heard that they announced them yet.


You can get pretty close to figuring it out looking at players lost minus players gained and the corresponding salary given.

The Seahawks are also likely to get 2 with 4 losses in the offseason and 2 players gained.

http://12thmanrising.com/2013/01/30/sea ... 013-draft/


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:38 am 
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QuickLightning wrote:
kidhawk wrote:
QuickLightning wrote:
The Niners had 14 picks prior to this one if you include compensatory picks, which includes an expected 3rd rounder... This is just insane now.


Have they announced compensatory picks or is this just the speculation? I hadn't heard that they announced them yet.


You can get pretty close to figuring it out looking at players lost minus players gained and the corresponding salary given.

The Seahawks are also likely to get 2 with 4 losses in the offseason and 2 players gained.

http://12thmanrising.com/2013/01/30/sea ... 013-draft/


I'd seen the estimations, it just sounded from your post like they'd already been announced. Was just curious if they had. I thought they were announced closer to the draft.

I still think, even with this trade, that we have the draft capitol to keep up with the Niners draftwise, and have a good shot at the NFC West title this season. Of course we still have a shot to add to ours if we decide to shop Flynn now that Smith is off the market

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:42 am 
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I think all four teams are in prime position to take the division. With all the high end draft picks the Rams got, they would have to be pretty dumb to miss out on some high end talent. The Cardinals are just a QB and a few offensive linemen away from being a SERIOUS threat with the scary defense they have.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:47 am 
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AbsolutNET wrote:
Wow, 9er fans have a reason to celebrate today. KC seems to have gotten fleeced


If the 9ers fans have messageboards like .NET, then there's probably a ridiculous segment of fans who are gnashing their teeth over the loss of their backup QB and saying things like, "Would YOU be comfortable with a rookie backup?!? Well, you're going to have to find out now11!!1!"

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:48 am 
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After comp picks, they will have something like 18 picks. No way they are even thinking about keeping all of those. Too many rookies that wouldn't make a talented roster.

Harvin and or Revis will be in San Fran soon. That or some serious trading up for the exact players they want.

Great position to be in.

Now, I must go laugh at the sole chiefs fan in my office.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:49 am 
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SeahawksFanForever wrote:
Could you guys imagine 49ers grabbing DeAndre Hopkins and Ryan Swope both? Eddie Lacy to back up Gore? Tyler Eifert or Zach Ertz as their second TE?

Or trade up and grab a solid DT to eventually replace Justin Smith?


This won't happen. They're going to package these picks for a player they want.. whether that's an NFL veteran (Revis, Harvin, etc) or a guy in the upper part of the draft is the only thing that remains to be seen.

They simply don't have the roster spots for FIFTEEN rookies.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:54 am 
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kidhawk wrote:
I'd also like to believe that as long as we continue to have Kaepernick's number like we did last year, it won't matter :)


That was Kaepernick's "First NFL 'deer in the headlights'" game. We're not going to see him look that lost again. That pissy, maybe, when we're beating his ass; but not that lost. Also, I was referring more to future seasons when I mentioned drafting starters than this season, though I can almost guarantee at least one of their picks will be a starter of some kind. Unless they keep drafting people like A.J. Jenkins.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:55 am 
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Good move by the 49ers. Not gonna stress about it though. Seahawks need to get better regardless of what their opponents do.

Anybody know who SF's backup QB is now?

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 am 
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JSeahawks wrote:
Good move by the 49ers. Not gonna stress about it though. Seahawks need to get better regardless of what their opponents do.

Anybody know who SF's backup QB is now?


They could trade for Flynn? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:01 am 
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JSeahawks wrote:
Good move by the 49ers. Not gonna stress about it though. Seahawks need to get better regardless of what their opponents do.

Anybody know who SF's backup QB is now?


The only other qb on the roster listed is Scott Tolzien. I'm guessing they'll pick up someone with one of their draft picks, a free agent or both.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:03 am 
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I'm waiting for Ashton Kutcher to jump out of a closet and tell me I just got punk'd. This can't be true. TWO second round picks? Did they see the first 5 years of his career?

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:05 am 
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Did they see the first 5 years of his career?


I imagine they're much more concerned with the most recent 1.5 seasons than they are with anything he did as a rookie.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:11 am 
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Hasselbeck wrote:
SeahawksFanForever wrote:
Could you guys imagine 49ers grabbing DeAndre Hopkins and Ryan Swope both? Eddie Lacy to back up Gore? Tyler Eifert or Zach Ertz as their second TE?

Or trade up and grab a solid DT to eventually replace Justin Smith?


This won't happen. They're going to package these picks for a player they want.. whether that's an NFL veteran (Revis, Harvin, etc) or a guy in the upper part of the draft is the only thing that remains to be seen.

They simply don't have the roster spots for FIFTEEN rookies.



If they are going to package these picks for a player then want then I expect that player to be a rookie in this draft. They can not afford Revis or Harvin because of their cap issues. They're already paying a lot of guys, and Crabtree, Aldon Smith, Iupati, and Kaepernick are up soon.

And, getting a rookie D-linemen to eventually replace Justin Smith makes the most sense to me. Either way, they are going to have a lot of options.

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Last edited by SeahawksFanForever on Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
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LOL! I just uploaded this and posted it on my ONLY Whiner friend's FB wall.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:12 am 
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Scott Tolzien looked good in preseason. Many were expecting him to be above Kaepernick in the draft chart because he was a better pocket passer.

He can't scramble though.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:12 am 
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First thought, Bwhahahaha KC got jobbed. Second Thought, Screw the Whiners, can't believe they received that for Alex Smith.

This is a crazy move, on par with the Ponder reach by Minnesota.

I just don't want Suck Fest picking up any of our targets, b*ttholes.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
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I suspect Harbaugh will bring in a veteran backup for cheap. Suppose they could also be in the market for a EJ Manuel or Matt Scott with their offense

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:16 am 
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volsunghawk wrote:
JesterHawk wrote:
Did they see the first 5 years of his career?


I imagine they're much more concerned with the most recent 1.5 seasons than they are with anything he did as a rookie.


He was a rookie for one of those first five years, and your reply would still only make sense if Smith had success with a decent offense of some kind that didn't depend on tons of great talent on both sides of the ball. In other words, if Smith was capable of running an offense that wasn't really simple and avoided throwing more than 10-15 yards at a time, ever.

:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:17 am 
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RiggoReincarnated wrote:
Why didn't they trade Kaepernick instead? Smith beat Seattle. Kaepernick was lost.


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That was Kaepernick's 6th start. He went 19-36, 244, 1 TD, 1 INT. Russell Wilson's 7th start featured a 26 QBR and an amazing 122 yards on 9 of 23 passing, 0 TDs and an INT. People forget just how green Kaepernick is. Give him a full season as a starter like Russell Wilson and then we'll see.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:20 am 
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Rings, I'm pretty sure he was trolling. Also, he's not THAT green, (compared to a fresh rookie with the same number of starts that started from day one) he sat on a team for a year-and-a-half that reached the NFCCG in his rookie year while he was riding the pine.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:34 am 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
volsunghawk wrote:
JesterHawk wrote:
Did they see the first 5 years of his career?


I imagine they're much more concerned with the most recent 1.5 seasons than they are with anything he did as a rookie.


He was a rookie for one of those first five years, and your reply would still only make sense if Smith had success with a decent offense of some kind that didn't depend on tons of great talent on both sides of the ball. In other words, if Smith was capable of running an offense that wasn't really simple and avoided throwing more than 10-15 yards at a time, ever.

:roll:


Don't get me wrong. I don't think Smith is a world-beater. I think he's a slightly better version of Matt Flynn, frankly.

But a team wanting a solid game manager QB could do worse than Smith, and KC isn't completely void of talent (except at the QB position). And I seriously doubt that Reid is looking at Smith and thinking that KC will automatically replicate what SF did in the last 2 years with him.

What he's seeing, though, is a guy who performed well when surrounded by a good team and given stability in the coaching staff/system. KC may not have the "good team" part yet, but Reid is banking that he'll be able to deliver at least a few years of stability to KC, and he likely thinks that Smith will be able to play solid ball while Reid continues to add pieces to the team. Remember, Smith may have sucked badly his first 5 years, but so did SF coaching, and Smith had 5 different OCs during that time. There's not a hell of a lot of QBs out there who would have looked good in that scenario.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:37 am 
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How the hell are we going to win the division now? Can a trade like that even be done on Madden? The F$#@!


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:46 am 
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Why does everyone on here hate Andy Reid so much? He chiefs now have a good chance at getting the 5 or 6 seed with Alex Smith and the no.1 pick


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:56 am 
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Decimation wrote:
How the hell are we going to win the division now?


Russell Wilson and John Schneider

Kap might actually be a decent to pretty good QB but Wilson appears to be something special. It is also yet to be seen how either of them handle it when defenses catch on to the read option but who are you really more confident in if they both don't have it available anymore?

While the Niners have quite a bit of draft picks, we are in the double digits with picks as well. The draft is never a guarantee, so while either team can still have a lackluster draft(or an amazing one) with all the picks they have but are you really going to bet against Schneider?


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:57 am 
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That's the thing, Volsung. Alex Smith is not a solid game manager. He's a only a solid game manager on an otherwise elite team, which the Chiefs are far from being. A solid game manager only requires a decent team to break above an even record, not a great one.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Here's Pro Football Mock's take on it. (The guys that did all the fake NFL QB Facebook conversations.)

http://profootballmock.com/jim-harbaugh ... dits-mask/

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:18 pm 
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I'm hoping to find out there was collusion on this. That's got to be the only way this really happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
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Sarlacc83 wrote:
I'm hoping to find out there was collusion on this. That's got to be the only way this really happened.


Naw, I'm pretty sure roofies is the other possibility.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:30 pm 
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Wow. Wow! The Chiefs are so stupid it hurts. They traded the farm for Cassell after his one good year, it failed miserably, and now they're correcting the mistake by trading the farm for Smith after one good year? This is astronomically stupid. I'm stunned. I don't know who to feel worse for, Chiefs fans or the rest of the NFC. Harbaugh must be dancing like an old prospector right now. Gold, gold. How appropriate.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:32 pm 
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When Reid had his good years he had a really good down the field QB,(Donovan McNabb wasn't it)?

I don't see Smith being that good a flinger to work in that kind of offense.

just sayin'

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:28 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
That's the thing, Volsung. Alex Smith is not a solid game manager. He's a only a solid game manager on an otherwise elite team, which the Chiefs are far from being. A solid game manager only requires a decent team to break above an even record, not a great one.


Gonna have to disagree with you, then, both on what constitutes a "solid game manager" and whether Alex Smith is one.

A solid game manager will only be as good as the team around him, and his primary job will be to avoid turning the ball over.

The 49ers put him in charge of an otherwise elite team, and he responded by doing what was asked of him for the most part. In 2011, he dinked and dunked a ton, but made sure to avoid turnovers like the plague - and that paid off pretty well for the 49ers. This year, his performances were better, as he had a higher completion percentage and YPA while continuing to limit bad plays and turnovers.

And you have to think that's important to Reid as he's trying to rework the Chiefs. Smith's not going to turn the ball over much. Outside of the Giants game this past season, you have to go back to early in the 2010 season to find the last time Smith had a multi-pick game.

In the end, the evidence on Smith points to a guy who can be quite accurate and will protect the ball. And if you give him good coaching and good support, he can win plenty of games. I imagine that Reid considers himself a good coach, so there's part of that equation already done.

What we can agree on, though, is that the amount of compensation is kind of ridiculous. I wouldn't have been surprised to hear that Smith went to KC for the Chiefs' 2nd round pick. What surprised me is that there was a 2014 pick involved at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:54 pm 
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Just throwing this out there because I haven't seen anyone bring this up yet.

John Clayton was on with Brock and Salk this morning and made it really clear that the details of this are pretty sketchy at this point. What's unknown at this point is whether or not:

A) the 49ers have their own 2nd Round Pick (#61) in addition to having the Chiefs #33 Pick

or

B) the 49ers and Chiefs have merely flip-flopped positions in the 2nd Round (i.e. the Niners send the #61 Pick to the Chiefs as part of this deal).

On the surface though, I'd say it's a good deal for them --- unfortunately. That means, of course, that the Chiefs are going to probably release Matt Cassel. And that would be one more guy out there on the FA market that could potentially mess up the value of what the Seahawks could expect back in a Matt Flynn deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Hawkscanner wrote:
Just throwing this out there because I haven't seen anyone bring this up yet.

John Clayton was on with Brock and Salk this morning and made it really clear that the details of this are pretty sketchy at this point. What's unknown at this point is whether or not:

A) the 49ers have their own 2nd Round Pick (#61) in addition to having the Chiefs #33 Pick

or

B) the 49ers and Chiefs have merely flip-flopped positions in the 2nd Round (i.e. the Niners send the #61 Pick to the Chiefs as part of this deal).

On the surface though, I'd say it's a good deal for them --- unfortunately. That means, of course, that the Chiefs are going to probably release Matt Cassel. And that would be one more guy out there on the FA market that could potentially mess up the value of what the Seahawks could expect back in a Matt Flynn deal.


There's no way the Niners gave their second as well.

They got the Chiefs second and a mid round pick next year. The only sketchy detail is what the condition of the 2014 pick likely will be. If that could reach a 3rd or second as well this trade is absolute thievery.


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:55 pm 
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I am not worried about 49ers having all of these picks as long as they don't draft my favorite prospects or players that I want hawks to draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:26 pm 
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Alex Smith doesn't turn the ball over. That is what killed the Chiefs last year. As far as setting himself up to get fired I don't know of a coached that's tied to a second rounder.

That said I think they overpaid a little. With that roster he could get them in the playoffs easy. Is that worth it?


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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:31 pm 
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If you look at it like this:

2010 - Seattle got a 2nd 1st round pick they used for Earl Thomas due to Denver's stupidity
2011 - Cardinals give up to Philly DRC, picks and decent size contract to Kevin Kolb
2012 - Rams got several 1st round picks from Washington, who wanted RGIII really bad
2013 - 49ers get KC's 2nd for Alex Smith and numerous possible slants on what else comprised the trade

Aside from the Cardinals, the NFC West has gotten fat off other divisions thirst for quick fixes in recent years.

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 Post subject: Re: Oh my God, Chiefs trade for Alex Smith..
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:06 pm 
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5_Golden_Rings wrote:
RiggoReincarnated wrote:
Why didn't they trade Kaepernick instead? Smith beat Seattle. Kaepernick was lost.


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That was Kaepernick's 6th start. He went 19-36, 244, 1 TD, 1 INT. Russell Wilson's 7th start featured a 26 QBR and an amazing 122 yards on 9 of 23 passing, 0 TDs and an INT. People forget just how green Kaepernick is. Give him a full season as a starter like Russell Wilson and then we'll see.


but what about Wilson's 6th start?
surely you compare like for like?


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