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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:03 am 
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FriscosFinest wrote:
frase32 wrote:
I think all four teams had above average drafts and you can make the argument that the Seahawks, 49ers and Rams killed it. This division is going to be a slugfest. I cannot wait for the season to start. I will be happy with a split for the 49ers against the Hawks this year again cause your team was a nightmare last year and you guys looked to be improved. Here's to two, maybe even three, absolutely amazing games next season. :thirishdrinkers:


Not being a hater, but I think the seahawks actually drafted very average, and possibly the lowest grade in the NFC-W. I mean yeah your team used their 1st pick on harvin, so I dont hold that against them. But the first player taken was a runningback??



I actually sort of agree with this. I think the Seahawks had the worst draft out of the NFC West if you exclude the Harvin deal, and even with him I don't think our place is cemented at the top as far as the draft is concerned. IMO though, this has more to do with how well the other 3 teams in the division drafted. I was really surprised that I didn't see a thread specifically about the 9ers in the NFL forum.

I don't go to 9ers websites, so, 9ers fans, if you're out there, good on ya. That was a great draft. Same for the Cardinals, actually.

However, I disagree that the Michael pick was a reach at all. I think he'll be outstanding. Yes, there were other "holes" to fill, but if you concentrate too hard on need you really handicap yourself. I think when you "spend" your 1st rounder in other ways it's EVEN more important to make sure you get good players in the draft and concentrate less on need - which is exactly what the Hawks did.

2013 is going to be brutal year for the NFC West. Good luck to everybody, hope we all stay injury free, and I hope the Seahawks kick all your asses.
:49ersmall:

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:33 am 
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FriscosFinest wrote:

Not being a hater, but I think the seahawks actually drafted very average, and possibly the lowest grade in the NFC-W. I mean yeah your team used their 1st pick on harvin, so I dont hold that against them. But the first player taken was a runningback??



uhh the Niners just used a second round pick on Lamicheal James when they had Gore and Hunter on the roster...


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:54 am 
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As far as the drafts for each team, it needs a bit of context.

The Hawks had literally zero holes to fill. I can't think of another team in the league that had no holes to fill via draft. Can we really fault the Hawks for killing the draft the past 3 years so they've built an incredible roster?

I honestly don't even know how to grade the Hawks this year. It's almost like the entire draft was a luxury for us, just icing on the cake.

The Cards had the furthest to go and therefore will likely have the most impact players out of this draft. They are just starting a new regime there and their draft reflects that, it's a solid foundation building type of draft.

The Rams will probably rank "second best" almost entirely off of Austin alone. They seem to like taking risky players and you have to wonder if that's gonna bite them one day.

The Niners had holes to fill. They filled the hole of their incredibly thin d-line depth but Idk if they really improved at safety. I think at the very best, they might stay the same as they were. Remember though that safety is rumored to have arthritic shoulders. They did not solve their CB issues. While Nnamdi may be a decent/good stop gap, they got nothing for the future there.


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:00 am 
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amill87 wrote:
The Hawks had literally zero holes to fill. I can't think of another team in the league that had no holes to fill via draft. Can we really fault the Hawks for killing the draft the past 3 years so they've built an incredible roster?


Crazy that they have gone from one of the worst Seahawks offense you have ever seen, to have zero holes to fill. I wonder what has changed?

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:00 am 
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Just remember: having zero holes to fill is not a reason for crappy picks. It's a reason for picking great players that won't see the field as early as they should.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:06 am 
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HawksFTW wrote:
amill87 wrote:
The Hawks had literally zero holes to fill. I can't think of another team in the league that had no holes to fill via draft. Can we really fault the Hawks for killing the draft the past 3 years so they've built an incredible roster?


Crazy that they have gone from one of the worst Seahawks offense you have ever seen, to have zero holes to fill. I wonder what has changed?


I was wrong. I was an emotional fan watching his team lose games they should've won. If you have a problem with me, take it to the shack and stop derailing all the threads I post in.


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:15 am 
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amill87 wrote:
The Hawks had literally zero holes to fill.


So many people say this and it is so incredibly wrong. After we cut Leon Washington, we had a huge hole at the third running back spot. We filled it with our first pick in the draft and a lot of people kind of freaked out. It was really the only choice we could have made that is pretty much guaranteed to make the team.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:16 am 
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Seahawk Sailor wrote:
Just remember: having zero holes to fill is not a reason for crappy picks. It's a reason for picking great players that won't see the field as early as they should.


It makes it difficult to know how good the players really are though.

BASF wrote:
amill87 wrote:
The Hawks had literally zero holes to fill.


So many people say this and it is so incredibly wrong. After we cut Leon Washington, we had a huge hole at the third running back spot. We filled it with our first pick in the draft and a lot of people kind of freaked out. It was really the only choice we could have made that is pretty much guaranteed to make the team.


Turbin fills the role of 3rd down/change of pace back. Tate/Harvin fill the hole of return man. Saying 3rd running back is a hole is like saying kicker is a hole. Sure you need the player on the team but is it really a hole?


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:27 am 
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amill87 wrote:
HawksFTW wrote:
amill87 wrote:
The Hawks had literally zero holes to fill. I can't think of another team in the league that had no holes to fill via draft. Can we really fault the Hawks for killing the draft the past 3 years so they've built an incredible roster?


Crazy that they have gone from one of the worst Seahawks offense you have ever seen, to have zero holes to fill. I wonder what has changed?


I was wrong. I was an emotional fan watching his team lose games they should've won. If you have a problem with me, take it to the shack and stop derailing all the threads I post in.


How was that derailing the thread? I was asking you an honest question. I don't think I have even replied to you since the middle of last season, nor have I derailed ever thread you post in.

It is odd to me that someone would do such an about face, I was wondering what changed your perspective, that is all.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:06 am 
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amill87 wrote:
Seahawk Sailor wrote:
Just remember: having zero holes to fill is not a reason for crappy picks. It's a reason for picking great players that won't see the field as early as they should.


It makes it difficult to know how good the players really are though.

BASF wrote:
amill87 wrote:
The Hawks had literally zero holes to fill.


So many people say this and it is so incredibly wrong. After we cut Leon Washington, we had a huge hole at the third running back spot. We filled it with our first pick in the draft and a lot of people kind of freaked out. It was really the only choice we could have made that is pretty much guaranteed to make the team.


Turbin fills the role of 3rd down/change of pace back. Tate/Harvin fill the hole of return man. Saying 3rd running back is a hole is like saying kicker is a hole. Sure you need the player on the team but is it really a hole?


Interesting that you mention kicker alluding that it wouldn't be a hole to fill, and yet every team carries one of them. Third running back on a roster is an incredibly important hole. First and foremost they almost always are kick and punt coverage. Second, if one of the top two backs are hurt for more than a game, you need to have that running back who is familiar with your system who can step in and get 5 or 6 carries a game as well as be able to pickup blitzes or run one of your routes (as opposed to bringing in a guy off the street who doesn't know your playbook).

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:18 am 
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BASF wrote:
Interesting that you mention kicker alluding that it wouldn't be a hole to fill, and yet every team carries one of them. Third running back on a roster is an incredibly important hole. First and foremost they almost always are kick and punt coverage. Second, if one of the top two backs are hurt for more than a game, you need to have that running back who is familiar with your system who can step in and get 5 or 6 carries a game as well as be able to pickup blitzes or run one of your routes (as opposed to bringing in a guy off the street who doesn't know your playbook).


I get what you're saying and I'm not saying the third running back isn't important but it's not a high priority type of need. Compare it to the needs our division rivals had and it's not that big of a deal. Not many teams have talent three deep at running back, in fact I can only think of one other team that has a similar situation and it's the Niners.

Without looking, can you tell me who the third RB is on the Ravens? And how much did he help with their Super Bowl run?


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:09 pm 
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amill87 wrote:
BASF wrote:
Interesting that you mention kicker alluding that it wouldn't be a hole to fill, and yet every team carries one of them. Third running back on a roster is an incredibly important hole. First and foremost they almost always are kick and punt coverage. Second, if one of the top two backs are hurt for more than a game, you need to have that running back who is familiar with your system who can step in and get 5 or 6 carries a game as well as be able to pickup blitzes or run one of your routes (as opposed to bringing in a guy off the street who doesn't know your playbook).


I get what you're saying and I'm not saying the third running back isn't important but it's not a high priority type of need. Compare it to the needs our division rivals had and it's not that big of a deal. Not many teams have talent three deep at running back, in fact I can only think of one other team that has a similar situation and it's the Niners.

Without looking, can you tell me who the third RB is on the Ravens? And how much did he help with their Super Bowl run?


To the Ravens question, no I can't. Both Rice and Pierce were healthy all season. In regards to the rest, I agree it wasn't a high priority need, but we did have an open roster spot there and we got a very good prospect for it. He was on the top of our board and fit the bill. Watching his 2011 highlights when he was healthy, he jumps off the screen. There wasn't really any other players there that you could say he would definitely make the roster.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:37 pm 
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BASF wrote:

To the Ravens question, no I can't. Both Rice and Pierce were healthy all season. In regards to the rest, I agree it wasn't a high priority need, but we did have an open roster spot there and we got a very good prospect for it. He was on the top of our board and fit the bill. Watching his 2011 highlights when he was healthy, he jumps off the screen. There wasn't really any other players there that you could say he would definitely make the roster.


Oh I love the Micheal pick. I like most of the draft. All the picks make somewhat sense when you look at a purely depth/future insurance type of angle. But that makes it really hard to compare to the rest of the division who needed actual impact players from this draft and for the most part, got some potential impact guys.


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Hello, I am a Niner fan, and therefore most of you can disregard everything I say :D. But I am a football fan too and I recognize that the Seahawks are definitely a top 5 team.

Regarding the NFC-W drafts...

Cardinals: They had a solid, but overly impressive draft. They needed to replace Adam Snyder, the sieve, at G. Cooper will obviously be a solid, if not boarder-line Pro-Bowler, but at #7 it's a steep price for a Guard. Minter and Okafor should be solid starters. Mathieu is the headliner of their draft, and makes a good impact with the new additions of Harvin and Austin into the division. Taylor represents good backup RB value and Swope is a late round burner at WR, which can be similar to Denarius Moore for Carson Palmer. Overall, I see 3-4 starters, and some situational players.

Rams: Had a great draft, but had a lot of draft capital to work with. Finally addressed the playmaker issue. Olgetree has the potential to be a very solid ILB, and McDonald, Bailey, and Jones represent good value and potential starters. Overall, I see 3 starters, with one of them being a dynamic playmaker.

Seahawks: Harvin was a great pickup, I'll be the first to admit I was very disappointed he ended up going to SEA. I don't put much credence into the past injury situation. His contract is steep, but not as burdensome as Wallace's, and he's better than Wallace. Also, until Wilson get's a new contract, the Seahawks can afford to pay him. Chistine Michael was an interesting pick, but he has elite athleticism and represents good value for the post-Lynch future. Not very high on the Hill pick, but I think the Williams pick was one of the best picks in the draft. Some Niner fans were mocking him in the first round. I like the Harper pick, and I also think Simon fits the CB mold that Seattle has created. Overall, I see 1 starter in year one (Harvin), with the potential for 3-4 starters down the road. A lot will depend on who they end up paying in their secondary.

49ers: I thought the Reid pick was a slight reach, but given the draft capital, I will forgive. Would have liked to trade up and get Star Lotulelei, but alas, Reid should be a plug-and-play FS. The Tank Carradine pick was who I thought we'd draft in the first round. Huge pickup, given he heals (which isn't a small issue), can become the heir apparent to Justin Smith. The McDonald trade-up was curious, and I was slightly disappointed we didn't take Travis Kelce, but McDonald played all over the field and should fill in well for Walker. Lemonier and Patton offer good depth and provide some insurance against high-priced FAs. Lattimore (like Carradine) has the potential to be a game-changer at RB in a year or two. Overall, I see 2 starters (Reid and McDonald, as we run 2 TE sets a lot).

How will these drafts affect the NFC-W next year...

Even with the new additions of Austin and Ogletree, I still don't think the Rams will fair any better than they did last year. I think they over-achieved last year. They beat both the Hawks and Niners in STL, which will be tougher to do with Wilson and Kaep getting more experience. Until futher notice, the Cardinals are a dumpster fire. The addition of Carson Palmer will improve the fantasy stats, but I see only 5 or 6 wins.

Now, between the Niners and Hawks...

The Hawks have a distinct homefield advantage. It would be surprising if they lost a game in SEA. But, they don't travel as well as 49ers. They also have a harder schedule than the 49ers with 5 10am games vs. 1. I think they split the series and both teams end up 12-4. It'll come down to tie-breakers. Obviously, the 49ers would like to win the tie-breaker and play at Candlestick as opposed to the CenturyLink.

49ers: 12-4
Seahawks: 12-4
Rams: 8-8
Cardinals: 5-11

... Fire away, Seahawk fans


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:54 pm 
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frase32 wrote:
No one said this was a weak draft class. It has been said that it was lacking at the top of the draft. All I see in this thread is a lot of "We had no needs, therefore our draft was better because we weren't picking need in a weak class." Everyone turns into such a damned douchebag when discussing rival teams. As I originally said, on paper, all teams in the NFC WEST seemed to pick up quality players in this draft.


I was responding to a direct quote regarding the Rams and Niners. And I gave my opinion in response.

I agree with regard to all NFC W teams doing great for exactly what each needed. Love it.

I'm so excited for this season! I hate Dallas and the Steelers. Tired of those teams getting all the attention...as I looked at the calendar for this year to plan out when I can attend some games, the highest percentage of games that are exciting include an NFC W team. And not only because I'm a fan, but because they are going to be great games!

This season would not be so exciting if all NFC W teams did not look so competent right now. All. I think that was the point of this thread.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:54 pm 
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They are too much of a mess to solve everything. But, Palmer is an upgrade immediately over last year, and improving an already strong D will help them this year.

I think it was a matter of most improvement from point A to point B. And they had the lowest point A, so the most amount of room for improvement.

I don't think anyone is saying they are at Niner or Hawk level, just that they did well to make themselves better than they were last year. They are good enough now to steal wins. In my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:15 pm 
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NinerBuff wrote:
Hello, I am a Niner fan, and therefore most of you can disregard everything I say :D. But I am a football fan too and I recognize that the Seahawks are definitely a top 5 team.

Regarding the NFC-W drafts...

How will these drafts affect the NFC-W next year...

Even with the new additions of Austin and Ogletree, I still don't think the Rams will fair any better than they did last year. I think they over-achieved last year. They beat both the Hawks and Niners in STL, which will be tougher to do with Wilson and Kaep getting more experience.

49ers: 12-4
Seahawks: 12-4
Rams: 8-8
Cardinals: 5-11


... Fire away, Seahawk fans



Good analysis.

I will add though that the two games the Rams played at C-Link and Candlestick were not easy games for either opponent. So, it's way too simple to just say, Rams won in St. Louis.

I expected a major blow-out in Seattle (especially after that brutal Niner loss) and watched the game with Hawk fans. That was a tense, feisty game - even in the C-Link. It was the end of the season, so I don't think experience was the issue.

The Candlestick game was just bizarre all around, with Jenkins and Givens being benched and then Smith injured out. I would never like to see a game like that again, ever.

I was at the Ed for the Niner game, and I'm not convinced there was a home field advantage. Rams don't have that yet, maybe St. Louis will figure that out later. Kaep had experience by that point.

I think 8-8 is fair. But I expect a win at either Candlestick or C-Link this year. And from what I saw in St. Louis, I see no home field advantage unless they amp it up this year.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:16 pm 
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Yeah the Cards can get the most impact from their drafted players because they need the most impact.

Which is why I don't like grading drafts. With a team like the Cards, it's pretty easy to grade their draft, we will see most of their draftees right away and get a pretty quick feel for how they drafted.

On the other end of that spectrum is the Hawks and Niners. Drafts that will be very difficult to determine if they are good or not.

So if we are grading drafts, what can we base the grading scale on? Can't really compare the Niners and Cards because their drafts have completely different purposes.


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:19 pm 
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RedAlice wrote:

I think 8-8 is fair. But I expect a win at either Candlestick or C-Link this year. And from what I saw in St. Louis, I see no home field advantage unless they amp it up this year.


If the Rams pull a W from either Candlestick or C-link, that would be pretty damn impressive. That's some pretty lofty expectations.


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:25 am 
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RedAlice wrote:
Bobblehead wrote:

So 49er fans.. Ram fans.. Good luck on your elite players taken out of this mediocre class of recruits, they surely are the stars of mediocrity and will be the mother of your disappointments when all is said and done.


It was a weak draft.

I believe this was made very clear by almost every team being unwilling to deal 2014 draft picks for anything. I think only 3 teams did.

Good thing the Rams still have two picks in the first round next year in what is supposed to be a strong draft. Rams are still young.

As to this year, I think you will find when you struggle against the Rams again, that even the elite out of mediocre as you call it is an improvement over what Fisher inherited and now coaches.

I'm not a Niner fan, so you can't call up your 30 point win for last year as a rebuttle. You lost once and struggled to get 7 the second time, against a team wtihout these new "mediocre" players, at the end of the year when you were your best.

We both improved. Excited for this coming year!

And, don't discount the Cards. They improved as well. No such thing as an easy win in the NFC West now.


We will destroy the Rams this year.
Yes we had a "tough" game in the last game of the season with nothing to play for and no reason to give playoff teams an idea of our playbook, and yes you beat us at the start of the year with that same vanilla playcalling, a fake FG TD and two 60 yard field goals. But that won't happen again this year.


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:26 am 
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thought it was two fake fieldgoals.. and those 60 yrd bombs were ridiculous... Rams have a chance to beat us, but i think we're just simply a level above them talent wise accross the board.. but any given sunday... ask the whiners, heh heh heh...

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:24 am 
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yeah we have the best division in the league...that's why our super bowl run is so probable...we will be thoroughly battle-tested..


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:47 am 
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I think the Rams will suprise everyone and go 10-6 and we will ave three teams in the playoffs from the NFCW. Its a reach, but I'm making that bold prediction.


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:56 am 
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themunn wrote:
RedAlice wrote:
Bobblehead wrote:

So 49er fans.. Ram fans.. Good luck on your elite players taken out of this mediocre class of recruits, they surely are the stars of mediocrity and will be the mother of your disappointments when all is said and done.


It was a weak draft.

I believe this was made very clear by almost every team being unwilling to deal 2014 draft picks for anything. I think only 3 teams did.

Good thing the Rams still have two picks in the first round next year in what is supposed to be a strong draft. Rams are still young.

As to this year, I think you will find when you struggle against the Rams again, that even the elite out of mediocre as you call it is an improvement over what Fisher inherited and now coaches.

I'm not a Niner fan, so you can't call up your 30 point win for last year as a rebuttle. You lost once and struggled to get 7 the second time, against a team wtihout these new "mediocre" players, at the end of the year when you were your best.

We both improved. Excited for this coming year!

And, don't discount the Cards. They improved as well. No such thing as an easy win in the NFC West now.


We will destroy the Rams this year.
Yes we had a "tough" game in the last game of the season with nothing to play for and no reason to give playoff teams an idea of our playbook, and yes you beat us at the start of the year with that same vanilla playcalling, a fake FG TD and two 60 yard field goals. But that won't happen again this year.


No offense, but I saw a lot of these types of posts going into the last game of the year against the Rams, especially coming off the 49ers blowout, and the Rams came very close to beating the Seahawks at C-Link. I have seen a lot of posts here and other sites stating that the Rams overachieved, but I will strongly disagree. I believe Fisher is that good of a coach, especially taking a team that was 2-14 the year before and then close to .500. If you think the Rams are going to be a cakewalk this year, I believe you will be proven incorrect.


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 10:14 am 
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candyman4881 wrote:

No offense, but I saw a lot of these types of posts going into the last game of the year against the Rams, especially coming off the 49ers blowout, and the Rams came very close to beating the Seahawks at C-Link. I have seen a lot of posts here and other sites stating that the Rams overachieved, but I will strongly disagree. I believe Fisher is that good of a coach, especially taking a team that was 2-14 the year before and then close to .500. If you think the Rams are going to be a cakewalk this year, I believe you will be proven incorrect.


Seahawk fans believe our team is the best team in the league right now. I think the confidence about the Rams is due to the feeling we can/will beat anyone. With that said...

The Rams are going to be really good. I don't know if it'll be this year or need one more really good draft but I feel the Rams will take over second place in the division, push the Hawks hard for the division title and be a perennial wild card team. I don't think the Niner's FO can maintain the talent level that Schneider and Snead can. I think Snead is a top 5 GM and Fisher is a top 5 coach.


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:06 pm 
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amill87 wrote:
candyman4881 wrote:

No offense, but I saw a lot of these types of posts going into the last game of the year against the Rams, especially coming off the 49ers blowout, and the Rams came very close to beating the Seahawks at C-Link. I have seen a lot of posts here and other sites stating that the Rams overachieved, but I will strongly disagree. I believe Fisher is that good of a coach, especially taking a team that was 2-14 the year before and then close to .500. If you think the Rams are going to be a cakewalk this year, I believe you will be proven incorrect.


Seahawk fans believe our team is the best team in the league right now. I think the confidence about the Rams is due to the feeling we can/will beat anyone. With that said...

The Rams are going to be really good. I don't know if it'll be this year or need one more really good draft but I feel the Rams will take over second place in the division, push the Hawks hard for the division title and be a perennial wild card team. I don't think the Niner's FO can maintain the talent level that Schneider and Snead can. I think Snead is a top 5 GM and Fisher is a top 5 coach.


I agree that Schneider and Snead are good GMs, but it's fairly accepted around the NFL that Baalke is a top5 if not one of the best executives in the league. After all, in 3 years of being or GM, he's taken a 5-11 team, added Jim Harbaugh, added a franchise QB, an elite pass rusher, built the best O-line in the league, and some very good talent without overspending on the FA market. Now, he inherited some good good talent from McCcloughan, but the team had 8 consecutive losing seasons, so it wasn't a great team by any measure. The 2011 Niners team over-achieved, and last year the team was markedly better, until Justin Smith's injury. So to compensate, he drafts Tank Carradine, who projects perfectly as a penetrating 3-4 DE.

So overall, there are 3 very good GMs in our divisions, each with very good defenses. The Rams have the best D-line, the Niners have the best LB-corp, and the Seahawks have the best secondary. The difference between the three teams will come down to QB play. After his rookie year, I though Bradford was going to be a really good qb, but since then, he looks more like a Matt Schaub, Andy Dalton, Alex Smith middle of the road type. Kaep and Wilson are on a different level. They offer elite skills and look to be franchise QBs, and will lead their respective teams to the playoffs for the foreseeable future. This is the make-or-break year of Bradford, and now the division is the toughest it's ever been (at least as long as the Seahawks have been in the NFCW).


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:08 pm 
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amill87 wrote:
RedAlice wrote:

I think 8-8 is fair. But I expect a win at either Candlestick or C-Link this year. And from what I saw in St. Louis, I see no home field advantage unless they amp it up this year.


If the Rams pull a W from either Candlestick or C-link, that would be pretty damn impressive. That's some pretty lofty expectations.


Hey, I've been a Rams' fan through a win/loss of 15-85 or something like that. All my expectations are "lofty." Smile.

Too many to quote - but, nice posts above. I will say thank you to the fans of Hawks and Niners who recognize the growing strength of the Rams. As also noted, no, they are not at your level yet.

Rams are now a talented soup of youth. I expect many surprises.

I also look forward to watching both the Hawks and Niners be great. I live in San Diego, so I can go watch both of your pre-season games again Mani Teo.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 6:51 am 
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NinerBuff wrote:
Kaep and Wilson are on a different level. They offer elite skills and look to be franchise QBs, and will lead their respective teams to the playoffs for the foreseeable future.


Kaeperschmuck is definitely a gifted athlete, no argument there... I'm just not buying in to all the elite QB hype... yet. Half a season of starts surrounded by arguably one of the best teams in the NFL in 2012 does not an elite QB make. Let's remember Smith, of all people, was having a career year in that position until he got injured and I'd venture a guess that any number of mid-level QBs would have won enough games with that team to make the playoffs. I'm not convinced he's got it between the ears. He may very well become the franchise... but it's just all hype and hope right now.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:59 pm 
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amill87 wrote:
Seahawk fans believe our team is the best team in the league right now. I think the confidence about the Rams is due to the feeling we can/will beat anyone. With that said...

The Rams are going to be really good. I don't know if it'll be this year or need one more really good draft but I feel the Rams will take over second place in the division, push the Hawks hard for the division title and be a perennial wild card team. I don't think the Niner's FO can maintain the talent level that Schneider and Snead can. I think Snead is a top 5 GM and Fisher is a top 5 coach.

Really not sure where you're coming up with these things.

First, you're assuming that the Seahawks will be the division champs until the end of time... There's just as much reason (if not more: time since last loosing season) to suggest that the 49ers are and will remain atop the NFCW. What is your argument to suggest that the Seahawks can/should/will be the division champs for the foreseeable future?

Second; what argument do you have to suggest that Baalke (who's already been named NFL Executive of the Year) and Harbaugh (who's already been named NFL Coach of the Year) cannot maintain a certain level of talent - as if to suggest that they are simply incapable of doing what Seattle and St Louis' general managers are capable of??

Baalke and Harbaugh are WIDELY regarded as top-5 in their respective positions; a quick google will reveal that for you.

Now I'm not saying that the Rams can't/won't be good, or that the Seahawks will not win a division title ever again... But what you said, and your reasoning behind it leave a lot to be desired.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:06 am 
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60niners wrote:
amill87 wrote:
Seahawk fans believe our team is the best team in the league right now. I think the confidence about the Rams is due to the feeling we can/will beat anyone. With that said...

The Rams are going to be really good. I don't know if it'll be this year or need one more really good draft but I feel the Rams will take over second place in the division, push the Hawks hard for the division title and be a perennial wild card team. I don't think the Niner's FO can maintain the talent level that Schneider and Snead can. I think Snead is a top 5 GM and Fisher is a top 5 coach.

Really not sure where you're coming up with these things.

First, you're assuming that the Seahawks will be the division champs until the end of time... There's just as much reason (if not more: time since last loosing season) to suggest that the 49ers are and will remain atop the NFCW. What is your argument to suggest that the Seahawks can/should/will be the division champs for the foreseeable future?

Second; what argument do you have to suggest that Baalke (who's already been named NFL Executive of the Year) and Harbaugh (who's already been named NFL Coach of the Year) cannot maintain a certain level of talent - as if to suggest that they are simply incapable of doing what Seattle and St Louis' general managers are capable of??

Baalke and Harbaugh are WIDELY regarded as top-5 in their respective positions; a quick google will reveal that for you.

Now I'm not saying that the Rams can't/won't be good, or that the Seahawks will not win a division title ever again... But what you said, and your reasoning behind it leave a lot to be desired.


The Baalke 2011 award was a joke-all he did was ride the coattails of the guy before him.

Look at this paragraph from the 49ers bio here: http://www.49ers.com/team/staff/trent-baalke/8551a07d-d52e-4bb6-8e3e-c5c1244cad74

Between a draft class and a collection of free agents, Baalke signed 24 players beginning in July that would remain on the team’s 53-man roster at the completion of the season. Three of those signees – K David Akers, FS Dashon Goldson and CB Carlos Rogers – earned Pro Bowl selections, while five others were named Pro Bowl alternates – special teamer Blake Costanzo, C Jonathan Goodwin, DT Ray McDonald, FB Bruce Miller and SS Donte Whitner. In all, 12 of those 24 players logged starts for the 49ers in 2011.

He made some nice signings (Whitner, Rogers, Goodwin), but it's been a long time since I've seen something where they try to give a GM so much credit for just resigning his own players (Goldson, McDonald). Does Schneider deserve it this year because he re-signed Kam Chancellor?

Baalke inherited Gore, Crabtree, Vernon, Walker, A. Davis, Iupati, Staley, Cowboy, McDonald, Sopoaga, Bowman, Brooks, Willis, Haralson, Goldson, Brown, and Lee. He deserves an award for this? Schneider didn't inherit anything close to this group of players.

The one move that might've earned him the 2011 award was to draft Aldon Smith. When he got the award, Kaepernick was not a contributor yet.

That 2011 draft was great. You got those two guys, made a smart positional switch with Bruce Miller.....and Culliver and Hunter are okay. Baalke's 2012 draft, however, looks terrible at the moment.

Harbaugh deserves all the credit in the world for what he did in 2011. He got you guys to play much better as a team, and they could bounce back from their few setbacks in a way the Singletary teams never could. (Did they ever recover from the 2010 opening day loss?) Baalke? One great draft, and he gets to ride the coattails of Jim and the guy who was the GM before him.

If we're assuming we'll be division champs this year, perhaps it's because no one has improved as much as we have? Either over the last half of last season, or in this offseason? Look at our last several games against each other. 2011 opener...we're kinda fortunate to get the score to 19-17 before the collapse. The next two games, you guys were pretty fortunate to walk away with the win. Seahawk mistakes blow opportunities to put the game away (Tarvaris not diving for the pylon in the corner....all those dropped passes), before you guys come back in the 2nd half. Big difference between those games, and the last one, when we kicked your teeth in.


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 5:45 am 
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amill87 wrote:
FriscosFinest wrote:

Not being a hater, but I think the seahawks actually drafted very average, and possibly the lowest grade in the NFC-W. I mean yeah your team used their 1st pick on harvin, so I dont hold that against them. But the first player taken was a runningback??



uhh the Niners just used a second round pick on Lamicheal James when they had Gore and Hunter on the roster...


Which made perfect sense as we rotate Gore out constantly. He is a capable every down back, but playing him that way every year usually caused him injury and we would lose him for a few weeks or more each year.

Rotating him like we do now, keeps his legs fresh which is paying off dividends.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 8:39 am 
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I don't think much is going to actually change within the division. After the Hawks had a very strong showing in FA, most opposing fans were quick to point out how they were paper champions and that it means nothing, but a team drafts a slew of players that haven't played a down of NFL football and they are better for it?

I am not counting the Niners out, there are really only a few teams built to compete with them, just like the Hawks, but I like the Hawks chances. The rest of the NFCW is still not on the level of SF or SEA IMHO. They all improved, but the Cards and Rams have to gain in order to get anywhere. It is going to come down to how they fair against other teams.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 9:29 pm 
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loafoftatupu wrote:
I don't think much is going to actually change within the division. After the Hawks had a very strong showing in FA, most opposing fans were quick to point out how they were paper champions and that it means nothing, but a team drafts a slew of players that haven't played a down of NFL football and they are better for it?

I am not counting the Niners out, there are really only a few teams built to compete with them, just like the Hawks, but I like the Hawks chances. The rest of the NFCW is still not on the level of SF or SEA IMHO. They all improved, but the Cards and Rams have to gain in order to get anywhere. It is going to come down to how they fair against other teams.


Agreed

And IMHO I think that we are overrating the Rams a bit based in their strong defense against our two teams last season. However the loss of arguably their best wideout and THEIR BEST back in Jax, their offense won't be as scary as it was as you can't just replace a RB like him easily.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 9:34 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 11:37 pm 
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NinerLifer wrote:
loafoftatupu wrote:
I don't think much is going to actually change within the division. After the Hawks had a very strong showing in FA, most opposing fans were quick to point out how they were paper champions and that it means nothing, but a team drafts a slew of players that haven't played a down of NFL football and they are better for it?

I am not counting the Niners out, there are really only a few teams built to compete with them, just like the Hawks, but I like the Hawks chances. The rest of the NFCW is still not on the level of SF or SEA IMHO. They all improved, but the Cards and Rams have to gain in order to get anywhere. It is going to come down to how they fair against other teams.


Agreed

And IMHO I think that we are overrating the Rams a bit based in their strong defense against our two teams last season. However the loss of arguably their best wideout and THEIR BEST back in Jax, their offense won't be as scary as it was as you can't just replace a RB like him easily.


IMHO, I look forward to watching this season with those expectations. There is nothing else I need to say. The games will talk. Though you lost me on your statement about how losing SJAX affects the Rams' D? Curious.

Just had a conversation with a Pats fan. Wow. I'm so involved in following the NFC W that he seemed like he was from Mars. He still thinks no west team can match them. That hubris is just slightly matched by here.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 9:34 am 
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Did not the Niners and Hawks beat the pats. and the Niners went to the Super Bowl. What a douche.


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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Sat May 04, 2013 6:42 pm 
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rlkats wrote:
Did not the Niners and Hawks beat the pats. and the Niners went to the Super Bowl. What a douche.

I do believe they lost to the Cards last year as well....

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
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RedAlice wrote:
NinerLifer wrote:
loafoftatupu wrote:
I don't think much is going to actually change within the division. After the Hawks had a very strong showing in FA, most opposing fans were quick to point out how they were paper champions and that it means nothing, but a team drafts a slew of players that haven't played a down of NFL football and they are better for it?

I am not counting the Niners out, there are really only a few teams built to compete with them, just like the Hawks, but I like the Hawks chances. The rest of the NFCW is still not on the level of SF or SEA IMHO. They all improved, but the Cards and Rams have to gain in order to get anywhere. It is going to come down to how they fair against other teams.


Agreed

And IMHO I think that we are overrating the Rams a bit based in their strong defense against our two teams last season. However the loss of arguably their best wideout and THEIR BEST back in Jax, their offense won't be as scary as it was as you can't just replace a RB like him easily.


IMHO, I look forward to watching this season with those expectations. There is nothing else I need to say. The games will talk. Though you lost me on your statement about how losing SJAX affects the Rams' D? Curious.

Just had a conversation with a Pats fan. Wow. I'm so involved in following the NFC W that he seemed like he was from Mars. He still thinks no west team can match them. That hubris is just slightly matched by here.


You lost me as well. You might want to re-read my post you quoted that I included above, as I didn't say anything about the loss of Jax effecting their defense LOL.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:47 pm 
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I re-read your post. I apologize for the mis-read.

I have not been this excited for the Rams' Offense since they took Bradford at #1. The more I read, the more excited I am about this Austin and his buddy. Bradford is still an unknown, IMHO. Hot mess of young talent.

SJAX is not replaceable for what he does. Atlanta will benefit this year. Rams didn't use him correctly last year, and this year the baby backs will compete with each other, or form a unit. I don't see this being a deciding factor in the O. Bradford will perform or not.

The biggest question to me on the entire Offense outside of QB is Shotty. Can he be creative enough to take advantage of his new toys? Don't know.

I do know that I don't expect a SB win this year. And I cannot wait to see what my young team does. They are not at Hawk or Niner level yet.

But, so excited for this season....it has been years.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 9:52 pm 
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rlkats wrote:
Did not the Niners and Hawks beat the pats. and the Niners went to the Super Bowl. What a douche.


Yes! And the Cards.

Kind of my point. East coast arrogance about to be taken down.

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 Post subject: Re: HOLY hell, the NFC West, looks so scary right now.
 Post Posted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:34 pm 
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onanygivensunday wrote:
The NFL is such copycat league.

Pete comes into the league in 2010 with the "Always compete" mantra and he backs it up in training camp and basically lives by it.

Prior to 2010, how often did you here any NFL HC mention competition?

And how often did you hear it during the three days of the draft? I heard it over and over again.

Other teams are starting to draft long, rangy CBs. High end speed isn't as valued now provided the CB can swivel his hips smoothly during the transition.

Oh... another one... how often have you recently heard "GO _______" at the end of an interview... fill in the blank with almost any team's name.

They're stealing Russell's signature sign-off.

As they say... Imitation is the highest form of flattery. :th2thumbs:

Back on topic.... Yes, the NFCW is THE best division in the NFL. It will be interesting how each of the four teams fares outside our division.

Good post, but.... You literally could've posted this in any thread and it would've held as much relevance to the OP as it did here. Just sayin'.


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