Montana vs Elway

The whole Luck vs Wilson debate reminds me of this from when I was a lot younger.

Montana. Rings. Which is how the debate goes in retrospect. Unlike Luck and Wilson, the two entered the league a few years apart, but by 87 the question of which was better burned in NFL circles. Montana's time as a KC Chief only made the debate burn more.

But if you polled every GM in the late 80's, Montana had a far better team around him and damn near every GM would take Elway over Montana. And every DC would tell you Elway is the one who keeps you awake at nights. The prototype. But joe just kept putting up better numbers and winning more.
The similarites don't end there. The AFC was weak as dishwater in that time, just like now. The NFC was brutal, and just beginning a stretch of dominance that would last most of the 90's. Often lost in the talk of the 5 rings is just how awesome that defense of the Niners was.

Montana: 3rd rounder. His first ring, in 81, had as much to do with the Niners brand spanking new and awesome secondary as with Walsh's offensive short pass game. Keena Turner, Ronnie Lott, Eric Wright...The Niners only gave up more than 20 points 3 times the year the Niners won their first ring. Sound familiar?

A cursory look at the stats is also reminiscent of Luck Vs Wilson. Elway threw more interceptions. Even in that era of DBs allowed to do stuff they can't now, Montana took care of the ball. He almost always had better numbers, a WAY higher completion percentage, and for most of his career, he had far better running backs than Elway did. Elway defenders, or apologists if you prefer, had the same answer. Elway is asked to do more. Montana plays in that gimmick offense, his completion percentage is misleading, the Niners have better talent around him, etc etc etc. Size was part of the debate, Joe just wasn't durable compared to Elway. Both kicked ass at coming from behind to win.

For those of you that remember that far back, what was your choice of the two guys?

In our offense I would take Montana, Elway like Luck was a big strong armed guy that could run, but he also thought he could win it by himself and took risks that sometimes paid off (especially against the Seahawks for some reason) or it was a turnover. The Drive in Cleveland is his most celebrated success. In asking Elway to do so much they also asked him to take a beating, took years for him to get smarter and finally put a team around him and balance an attack with a legit run game. Late in his career is when he had the wins, and Super Bowl when he was asked to actually do less.

Joe just won games, took what was given and when behind found a way to elevate his and the teams play, games like against Dallas and the catch or the Bengals Super Bowl come from behind victory attest to his leadership and competitive fire.

I wonder if people called Montana a "system QB" back in the day because he was operating under the WCO when it was still a new thing.

Smelly McUgly":1511a1p9 said:

I wonder if people called Montana a "system QB" back in the day because he was operating under the WCO when it was still a new thing.

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Yes.

I think Montana is better, the best QB ever other than Unitas (who I think really was the first true QB that could really sling it if he had to at a very high level).

I prefer him because he was so smart with the football and with how to distribute it to the right guy at the right time.

I think part of my bias toward him is that I see a lot of Russell Wilson in him (third-round picks that were dismissed because of their less-than-optimal physical gifts that made up for it with the ability to mentally master the game).

Marvin49":16yc51e2 said:

Smelly McUgly":16yc51e2 said:

I wonder if people called Montana a "system QB" back in the day because he was operating under the WCO when it was still a new thing.

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Yes.

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I remember folks talking about Joe like that, specifically in 82-83. It was all such a crock. Montana was more than just a smart pocket passer, the guy was steady as they come, unphased by any defense. He would make the play knowing he was going to get killed and he missed some games for it, but I watched Montana survive some brutal defensive efforts to pull out big games.

Man that guy could ball. He just made it look easy sometimes and he did have the talent around him, including the best OLine in the league, but the guy still took some wicked hits in big games. It wasn't like he had a noodle arm, he just had a terrific touch. The accuracy was nothing short of amazing.

Elway was a true pain in the ass, I mean that guy really made me angry because he somehow cheaped his way to making a game winning play, especially against the Hawks. Montana did it in a way that one could only admire.

For me it's Montana by a wide margin. And like Smelly, he's my number 2 QB all-time behind Johnny U.



Speaking of Whiner QBs, I like Steve Young better than Horseface too. He was just as good an athlete and a smarter QB in my opinion.

I saw plenty of Joe "Cool" he was a gamer till the end..From Notre Dame into the pros he had many comebacks in big games like the "Catch" or the Chicken soup game for the national title..He never lost Super Bowls and was tough ..Elway had comebacks but lost 3 super bowls before he won and he wasn't nearly as smart as Montana..Joe was a master of the roll out..Wilson reminds me of Montana in a lot of ways..Peyton is a lot like Elway minus the speed he had when young...

Elway was a bitch who pulled an Eli after he was drafted by the Colts. 'Waaaah they suck I don't wanna play for them.'

Montana was the reason I started watching and following football.

Also,

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chris98251":vl4unxat said:

In our offense I would take Montana, Elway like Luck was a big strong armed guy that could run, but he also thought he could win it by himself and took risks that sometimes paid off (especially against the Seahawks for some reason) or it was a turnover. The Drive in Cleveland is his most celebrated success. In asking Elway to do so much they also asked him to take a beating, took years for him to get smarter and finally put a team around him and balance an attack with a legit run game. Late in his career is when he had the wins, and Super Bowl when he was asked to actually do less.

Joe just won games, took what was given and when behind found a way to elevate his and the teams play, games like against Dallas and the catch or the Bengals Super Bowl come from behind victory attest to his leadership and competitive fire.

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That I recall, I think elway was more like Brett Favre in the fact that he tried too hard to win it all by taking those risks when they were not necessary. I agree that Joe was a much better qb and showed the class and qualities of a great one. I dont recall him embellishing his own qualities too over the other players on his TEAM. :mrgreen:

I have to change the Elway/Manning view I posted..They are alike in choking with happy feet when you get to them but playing styles are different..Elway is like a Manning when it comes to crying about who drafts them...I disliked Elway from the start when he cried his way off Baltimore to Denver...

I feel fortunate that I was able to see Montana play for his entire career. I literally enjoyed watching that Niners team play with him. That was true of Young also, but Joe was a flipping surgeon.

Yeah, he had talent around him but Jerry Rice owes a lot of his success to Montana. The Walsh slant... my God, did you ever once see Rice have to break his stride when getting those passes? It was BOOM and then GONE. Then Joe took the show to KC and made them an immediate SB threat. I just didn't get that from Elway. I know he was dangerous in his own way, but Montana was the Jedi Master of QBs.

Joe Montana every single day.

But I am a lifelong seahawks fan who grew up hating the Broncos and Elway so I'm bias.

I think most fans say Montana.

Getting his ticket out of Baltimore was not the last of Elway's bitch moves, he got Reeves sent packing because Reeves would not give him more on field control.

Tech Worlds":257gdfdb said:

Joe Montana every single day.

But I am a lifelong seahawks fan who grew up hating the Broncos and Elway so I'm bias.

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My sentiments exactly. Elway was superior in terms of durability, longevity, and "measurables" (which don't mean much to me).

Montana was the best I've ever seen at taking what a defense gave him, with well-timed, explosive plays. He's actually a great model of what RW is developing into.