Player Conduct Confusion ------ What's it all about ?

A point of order perspective .........

The collection of recent player conduct news and accompanying noise suggests we are witnessing a NFL purge and transition. The back and forth arguments are but a report from that social quake.

This is occurring because what the public thinks ...... matters ...... irrespective of arguments from any legal community. Specific team actions range from those ahead of the learning curve to those behind the curve to those lost in the confusion.

The effect of this ongoing purge should be similar to examples of learning and conditioning purges triggered by the introduction of time restrictions for team workout and practice secessions. The character make up and selection of NFL players continues to change with the times.

Ignore the noise ..... be the student ..... embrace these times and learn from them,

The Times They Are A-Changin - Bob Dylan

interesting take.

I will say that NFL players actually commit crimes at a rate much lower than general population. You would't know it from the hysteria going on now though.

Duke University Study: https://stat.duke.edu/~dalene/chance/chanceweb/123.nflviol.pdf

And:



So not sure this "purge" is all that needed. People like to throw around the word "thugs" and "gangsters" around when it comes to NFL players, but the reality of the situation is that I should be more concerned about my neighbor who has aluminum foil on his windows with a bunch of beware of dog signs (he doesn't have a dog lol), then being concerned that NFL player misconduct is out of control.

Sorry I'm on my phone and can't copy/paste from Acrobat but on page 4 in the second column it says that the data they used was from general population statistics and not from a group with the same income levels of an average NFL player. I could only imagine that if they had. Then the percentage of crime rate would show substantially higher.

Same thought I had lots of crime is poverty driven. If you have disposable income you will most likely not be out shoplifting groceries to feed your family. It's not apples to apples. Law enforcement has been known to cut a break to big time athletes time to time. When you figure there is about 1600 players in the NFL and you are comparing it to a base of 100,000 one or two breaks would make a large difference when extrapolated out. Most of your Petty crime isn't committed by a college educated male between 25-29 who is largely affluent and has a bunch of people attending to keeping them out of trouble.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the- ... l-players/

Apparently the rate NFL players commit DV is "extraordinarily" relative to others in their income bracket. Also, the article notes that high income bracket people (including nfl players) are far less likely to be arrested or be charged over any given incident of any type. (They also used a number of nfl players of 80 per team which is pretty inflated given many of those players only spend a month or so on a team)

But in the end, the issue the NFL is having at the moment isn't that some of its players commit crimes, every profession has criminals, it's that the NFL has a history of being extraordinarily lenient when punishing players. This incident didn't explode in the NFL's face because Ray Rice punched a woman, it exploded because the NFL only suspended him for two games. The NFL has taken a stance for whatever reason that it is going to discipline players for their off field conduct and its punishments for these matters over the years have been ridiculous. They do things things like hold up Ray Lewis as an icon while pushing Blackmon out of the league, an extraordinary player who was really good at one thing in his life but won't ever get to participate because of an addiction to a petty substance. They almost did the same thing to Gordon and numerous other players.

The problem the NFL has is that it has set itself up as a judge of the morality of its players and as a result people are going to call it out when they believe it has judged poorly.

Indeed, the Duke University study doesn't consider income, but also keep in mind that the NFL is predominantly African American and many of the players come from poor and rough circumstances with no father present. So if you want to compare NFL players to similar "peer groups" (e.g., African American males), NFL players are undoubtedly much more behaved (as African American males have the highest crime rate in the U.S.).

At the end of the day, NFL players are not a bunch of thugs and criminals that are rampantly committing crimes more than the "average Joe." Yes, one would expect that due to their income levels, but when you add race and background into it, the NFL does not have a "crime problem".

And people aren't at home saying, "wow, NFL players commit crimes much more than other rich people!" They are thinking that the NFL is out of control with respect to "everyone else" in the country (which is fiction)..

There's confusion because this is not a black and white issue, it's a huge gray area filled with complicated emotional and personal issues.

It's easy to discipline players/employees for drug violations. Sorry you failed the test, so you're suspended in accordance to our CBA.

Can't do that with complicated issues like personal conduct because every case is different. Some cases are crystal clear with empirical evidence (Ray Rice), and then there are some cases where there is very little to no evidence (Ray McDonald).

BUT, What the league can do is have a plan in place to deal with conduct problems, so they don't have to wait until six months later and the unwashed masses are crying for justice. They can say "if you're arrested for domestic violence and the judge or department investigating has deemed that there's enough evidence to arrest/try you, then you're suspended until the matter is resolved."

Edited out long winded post that went off track.

YES - lets all draw conclusions from a 1999 study......

I am not saying it is incorrect today but I normally don't rely on data 15 years old to draw these conclusions.

15 years ago a star athlete was far more likely to not hit the news if a cop let him go. Today there will be 15 people with cell phone camera tweeting out the video of his arrest....

mikeak":3gbkdvj0 said:

YES - lets all draw conclusions from a 1999 study......

I am not saying it is incorrect today but I normally don't rely on data 15 years old to draw these conclusions.

15 years ago a star athlete was far more likely to not hit the news if a cop let him go. Today there will be 15 people with cell phone camera tweeting out the video of his arrest....

Click to expand...

Criminal activity is down across the board, so I highly doubt the rates of NFL crime ratio comparisons as compared to general population has changed much, and the "phone camera" issues applies to not only NFL players, but also the regular population. Also, the NFL study mentions that arrest rates in the general population are probably lower than they should be when compared to NFL players, because such arrests are more likely to go unreported (whereas NFL player arrest will more likely be reported).

At the end of the day, people have this notion that NFL players are more apt to commit a crime than the average joe, which is entirely incorrect. We can slice and dice by distinguishing (well, let's compare to other rich people!), but again, you are much safet living with or next to a NFL player than some random dude off the street.

Which people think that NFL players are more likely to commit a crime?

bmorepunk":1k0lz83i said:

Which people think that NFL players are more likely to commit a crime?

Click to expand...

The people who say there is a "crime problem" in the NFL.

mikeak":1b3s5c3h said:

YES - lets all draw conclusions from a 1999 study......

I am not saying it is incorrect today but I normally don't rely on data 15 years old to draw these conclusions.

15 years ago a star athlete was far more likely to not hit the news if a cop let him go. Today there will be 15 people with cell phone camera tweeting out the video of his arrest....

Click to expand...

As a point of order, that referenced study is a departure from the subject. The confusion and noise generated by a barrage of player conduct stories was the intended subject.

Dealing with noise is a tricky challenge ........

The public: (everybody else) has not formed a consensuses or agreed to a unified and consolidated position. There is, instead, an huge diversity of opinion and perspective. Included among all that noise are considerations that are much more expansive than the limits of any specialty field of study with its unique limitations. All that diversity ... talking simultaneously ... feeds the noise.

Purges: Organizations build lists of people. People on those lists are described, profiled and graded. Filling a need from a list of candidates can be described as exercises in risk assessment and return on investment for the purpose of enhancing the changing goals of organizations. Purging opens up room for more promising and/or productive team members. Forces beyond the direct control of an organization change profiling and grading regiments. Purging is a process that embraces changing times. In a always compete environment, the purge mechanism drives roster churn. And, changing social forces redefine purge criteria.

The trickiest obstacle to overcome are the blinders of our own professional and personal interests. This world is much broader and bigger than any one of us can get our arms around. Each of us has a voice and accompanying limitations. Dealing with the noise and the noise of change is a daily challenge.

Better to embrace that challenge than ignore it.

Jville":2mi6hxba said:

Dealing with noise is a tricky challenge ........

The public: (everybody else) has not formed a consensuses or agreed to a unified and consolidated position. There is, instead, an huge diversity of opinion and perspective. Included among all that noise are considerations that are much more expansive than the limits of any specialty field of study with its unique limitations. All that diversity ... talking simultaneously ... feeds the noise.

Purges: Organizations build lists of people. People on those lists are described, profiled and graded. Filling a need from a list of candidates can be described as exercises in risk assessment and return on investment for the purpose of enhancing the changing goals of organizations. Purging opens room for more promising and/or productive team members. Forces beyond the direct control of an organization change profiling and grading regiments. Purging is a process that embraces changing times. In a always compete environment, the purge mechanism drives roster churn. And, changing social forces redefine purge criteria.

The trickiest obstacle to overcome are the blinders of our own professional and personal interests. This world is much broader and bigger than any one of us can get our arms around. Each of us has a voice and accompanying limitations. Dealing with the noise and the noise of change is a daily challenge.

Better to embrace it than ignore it.

Click to expand...

This reads like a Harvard Business Journal study on hiring and discipline in a corporate setting. I need to break out the dictionary and thesaurus he he. :177692:

bmorepunk":2f10zpnq said:

Which people think that NFL players are more likely to commit a crime?

Click to expand...

I guess a case could be made that NFL players are violent by nature and many of them come from broken dysfunctional homes? Also throw in entitlement and everyone around them since the age of 15 telling them they're gods............but not sure that's not far off from the rest of the population.

Sgt. Largent":3jeuyrgg said:

bmorepunk":3jeuyrgg said:

Which people think that NFL players are more likely to commit a crime?

Click to expand...

I guess a case could be made that NFL players are violent by nature and many of them come from broken dysfunctional homes? Also throw in entitlement and everyone around them since the age of 15 telling them they're gods............but not sure that's not far off from the rest of the population.

Click to expand...

I see plenty of diversity among NFL players. I read of different backgrounds and goals. Russell Wilson certainly stands out.

Edit: As I recall, Steve Largent stood out as well.

Jville":1oft39l5 said:

Sgt. Largent":1oft39l5 said:

bmorepunk":1oft39l5 said:

Which people think that NFL players are more likely to commit a crime?

Click to expand...

I guess a case could be made that NFL players are violent by nature and many of them come from broken dysfunctional homes? Also throw in entitlement and everyone around them since the age of 15 telling them they're gods............but not sure that's not far off from the rest of the population.

Click to expand...

I see plenty of diversity among NFL players. I read of different backgrounds and goals. Russell Wilson certainly stands out.

Click to expand...

For sure, and of course the media rarely reports about the good stories and men doing good things in the NFL.

IMO the NFL is just a microcosm of the general population, but I do think the sense of entitlement plays into some of these issues. When you're told you walk on water since the age of 12 it makes it very difficult to develop a well rounded sense of right and wrong.

The good news is as we're finding out, in 2014 it's now virtually impossible for these players to get away with something, even in high school, college, and on into the NFL. My guess is this stuff's has ALWAYS been going on, it was just easier to cover up.

Sgt. Largent":2lea1el1 said:

Jville":2lea1el1 said:

Sgt. Largent":2lea1el1 said:

bmorepunk":2lea1el1 said:

Which people think that NFL players are more likely to commit a crime?

Click to expand...

I guess a case could be made that NFL players are violent by nature and many of them come from broken dysfunctional homes? Also throw in entitlement and everyone around them since the age of 15 telling them they're gods............but not sure that's not far off from the rest of the population.

Click to expand...

I see plenty of diversity among NFL players. I read of different backgrounds and goals. Russell Wilson certainly stands out.

Click to expand...

For sure, and of course the media rarely reports about the good stories and men doing good things in the NFL.

IMO the NFL is just a microcosm of the general population, but I do think the sense of entitlement plays into some of these issues. When you're told you walk on water since the age of 12 it makes it very difficult to develop a well rounded sense of right and wrong.

The good news is as we're finding out, in 2014 it's now virtually impossible for these players to get away with something, even in high school, college, and on into the NFL. My guess is this stuff's has ALWAYS been going on, it was just easier to cover up.

Click to expand...

Entitlement plays into the introduction of confusion and noise as well. Competing in a field of open competition presents a very different environment and experience than tenured employment or entitlement programs. Those differences are often reflected throughout society as well as here ........ in the expressed opinions and posts of .net members.

The Times They Are A-Changin - Bob Dylan

Jville":4vq9coqz said:

Entitlement plays into the introduction of confusion and noise as well. Competing in a field of open competition presents a very different environment and experience than tenured employment or entitlement programs. Those differences are often reflected throughout society as well as here ........ in the expressed opinions and posts of .net members.

Click to expand...

Has anyone ever told you your posts read like a textbook? It's almost like talking to an auto generated responder.

To understand risk we have to first know what risk is...............