M's Off season, 2017-2018

massari

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Crizilla":1fr25kmg said:
Manny Machado PLEASE
It'd take a pretty big package to get Machado and they need to be spending what's left in their budget on a couple Starting Pitchers.

Paxton
Darvish
Lynn/Cobb
Felix
Leake

Iwakuma
Gonzales
Miranda
Ramirez
Moore

If they can add legit #2 and #3 starters, they'll be legit contenders.
 

Uncle Si

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M's add relief pitcher Juan Nicasio after Dee Gordon trade.

These are good moves
 

SmokinHawk

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massari

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SmokinHawk":20upop3s said:
therealjohncarlson":20upop3s said:
Thepeelsessions":20upop3s said:
Bobblehead":20upop3s said:
Looks like the M's dodged a big bullet here.

not really...

UCL sprains have a way of becoming tears, which then necessitates Tommy John surgery. We definitely lucked out a bit here.
Ohtani's only making about $2M. Hardly a risk.
 
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Bobblehead

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There's been some talk about a 6 man rotation, what do you all think of that?

I"m just concerned that if that happens, and you don't have good starters, won't your bullpen be shy since, you need another starter?
 
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Bobblehead

Bobblehead

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massari":1zbxxo5l said:
SmokinHawk":1zbxxo5l said:
therealjohncarlson":1zbxxo5l said:
Thepeelsessions":1zbxxo5l said:
Looks like the M's dodged a big bullet here.

not really...

UCL sprains have a way of becoming tears, which then necessitates Tommy John surgery. We definitely lucked out a bit here.
Ohtani's only making about $2M. Hardly a risk.

They were talking about that, and from vaguely what I understand is, he's at that price since, he's coming in as a rookie or something, but the club holds his contract and in a couple of years, he will be in the big bucks area that the team will be responsible for.

Sorry, not sure of the baseball technical jargon for it.
 

sutz

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Bobblehead":qs8ia4qc said:
massari":qs8ia4qc said:
SmokinHawk":qs8ia4qc said:
therealjohncarlson":qs8ia4qc said:
not really...

UCL sprains have a way of becoming tears, which then necessitates Tommy John surgery. We definitely lucked out a bit here.
Ohtani's only making about $2M. Hardly a risk.

They were talking about that, and from vaguely what I understand is, he's at that price since, he's coming in as a rookie or something, but the club holds his contract and in a couple of years, he will be in the big bucks area that the team will be responsible for.

Sorry, not sure of the baseball technical jargon for it.
I'm pretty sure there is a limit on how much can be paid foreign players.
 

sutz

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Bobblehead":p71sdoyo said:
There's been some talk about a 6 man rotation, what do you all think of that?

I"m just concerned that if that happens, and you don't have good starters, won't your bullpen be shy since, you need another starter?
I was thinking last year that we should limit the number of starts Felix gets as a protection. The rest of the rotation probably wouldn't need it, though. This year, without the international games creating additional stress on his arm, perhaps he can last longer.
 

Uncle Si

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The bullpen is bulking up it seems. I think the team wants to limit starter innings and turn to a bigger bullpen to close out situationally.
 

Msfann

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The guy would rather play in Japan than be a Mariner heh.
 

Hawkscanner

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Bobblehead":1znbeusu said:
There's been some talk about a 6 man rotation, what do you all think of that?

I"m just concerned that if that happens, and you don't have good starters, won't your bullpen be shy since, you need another starter?

Honestly, I'd say that baseball (as a whole) has been moving in that direction for some time now. It's just that it's taken a long time for a lot of baseball purists (I would lump myself in that category) to get on board with that idea.

Seriously though, take a look at the pitching landscape in baseball. How many guys threw complete games last year? How about the last few years? How many guys are honestly even going 7 or 8 innings consistently anymore? Even the ones who DO get up into the 7th and 8th inning -- just how effective are they (in general) at that point?

We are seeing pitchers throwing harder than ever ... and they are basically done after 90-100 pitches (at best) anymore. For me as a long time MLB fan (and a fan of the Mariners), there's a part of me that just flat out makes me sick. Seriously, I remember well the days of Nolan Ryan ... and Randy Johnson (when he was with the M's) regularly being up in that 120-130 pitch range ... and going into the 8th and 9 innings with regularity. You just expected that.

That's not the case anymore in baseball at all. You are seeing a lot of move towards specialization in pitching. MLB clubs are looking for that hard throwing middle relief guy you can bring in in the 6th or 7th inning that can get you to the 8th or your closer in the 9th. Many clubs are really beefing up their bullpen (ergo, which is why you're seeing JeDi do the exact same thing over the course of these last few days).

Things are changing ... and I guess I'd just say that the Mariners are pioneering (leading the charge) towards what we are going to eventually be seeing throughout baseball. I expect 6 man rotations to become fairly commonplace in the next 5 years or so.

And it makes sense -- especially from what we saw from this M's team last year, it makes definite sense. Some day, if someone ever asks you, "What does it look like when a club has great offense, but no pitching?" -- you can honestly say -- "See the 2017 Seattle Mariners." They are the quintessential textbook example of what happens when your pitching goes awry. We'll see if it works. If the powers that be honestly think it might help, I'm game for virtually any kind of innovative idea at this point. With the status of the division and how it looks to be shaping up once again, it certainly can't hurt. Yeah, sure. Why not?
 

sutz

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Hawkscanner":3ts9gz6i said:
Bobblehead":3ts9gz6i said:
There's been some talk about a 6 man rotation, what do you all think of that?

I"m just concerned that if that happens, and you don't have good starters, won't your bullpen be shy since, you need another starter?

Honestly, I'd say that baseball (as a whole) has been moving in that direction for some time now. It's just that it's taken a long time for a lot of baseball purists (I would lump myself in that category) to get on board with that idea.

Seriously though, take a look at the pitching landscape in baseball. How many guys threw complete games last year? How about the last few years? How many guys are honestly even going 7 or 8 innings consistently anymore? Even the ones who DO get up into the 7th and 8th inning -- just how effective are they (in general) at that point?

We are seeing pitchers throwing harder than ever ... and they are basically done after 90-100 pitches (at best) anymore. For me as a long time MLB fan (and a fan of the Mariners), there's a part of me that just flat out makes me sick. Seriously, I remember well the days of Nolan Ryan ... and Randy Johnson (when he was with the M's) regularly being up in that 120-130 pitch range ... and going into the 8th and 9 innings with regularity. You just expected that.

That's not the case anymore in baseball at all. You are seeing a lot of move towards specialization in pitching. MLB clubs are looking for that hard throwing middle relief guy you can bring in in the 6th or 7th inning that can get you to the 8th or your closer in the 9th. Many clubs are really beefing up their bullpen (ergo, which is why you're seeing JeDi do the exact same thing over the course of these last few days).

Things are changing ... and I guess I'd just say that the Mariners are pioneering (leading the charge) towards what we are going to eventually be seeing throughout baseball. I expect 6 man rotations to become fairly commonplace in the next 5 years or so.

And it makes sense -- especially from what we saw from this M's team last year, it makes definite sense. Some day, if someone ever asks you, "What does it look like when a club has great offense, but no pitching?" -- you can honestly say -- "See the 2017 Seattle Mariners." They are the quintessential textbook example of what happens when your pitching goes awry. We'll see if it works. If the powers that be honestly think it might help, I'm game for virtually any kind of innovative idea at this point. With the status of the division and how it looks to be shaping up once again, it certainly can't hurt. Yeah, sure. Why not?
I mentioned this last year, specifically with Felix. I was thinking I would be fine if he took every 3rd or 4th start off to rest, especially since he basically wasted about a month of his MLB season pitching in the WBC. Don't have to worry about that this year, I guess, but last season he ended up not pitching enough to worry if he was in a 4, 5, or 6 man rotation. It looks very much like he won't be available for much more than 20 starts anyway this year. Problem, of course, is if you expand to 6 starters, you have the risk of having 4 or 5 "back end" starters that could barely give you 6 innings of competitive play.
 

Uncle Si

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The addition of so many relievers seems to indicate they want to use the pen to supplement starter innings. Ask the back end to go 4-6 innings and let the pen do the rest.
 

IndyHawk

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Hawkscanner":2rn4t5oa said:
Bobblehead":2rn4t5oa said:
There's been some talk about a 6 man rotation, what do you all think of that?

I"m just concerned that if that happens, and you don't have good starters, won't your bullpen be shy since, you need another starter?

Honestly, I'd say that baseball (as a whole) has been moving in that direction for some time now. It's just that it's taken a long time for a lot of baseball purists (I would lump myself in that category) to get on board with that idea.

Seriously though, take a look at the pitching landscape in baseball. How many guys threw complete games last year? How about the last few years? How many guys are honestly even going 7 or 8 innings consistently anymore? Even the ones who DO get up into the 7th and 8th inning -- just how effective are they (in general) at that point?

We are seeing pitchers throwing harder than ever ... and they are basically done after 90-100 pitches (at best) anymore. For me as a long time MLB fan (and a fan of the Mariners), there's a part of me that just flat out makes me sick. Seriously, I remember well the days of Nolan Ryan ... and Randy Johnson (when he was with the M's) regularly being up in that 120-130 pitch range ... and going into the 8th and 9 innings with regularity. You just expected that.

That's not the case anymore in baseball at all. You are seeing a lot of move towards specialization in pitching. MLB clubs are looking for that hard throwing middle relief guy you can bring in in the 6th or 7th inning that can get you to the 8th or your closer in the 9th. Many clubs are really beefing up their bullpen (ergo, which is why you're seeing JeDi do the exact same thing over the course of these last few days).

Things are changing ... and I guess I'd just say that the Mariners are pioneering (leading the charge) towards what we are going to eventually be seeing throughout baseball. I expect 6 man rotations to become fairly commonplace in the next 5 years or so.

And it makes sense -- especially from what we saw from this M's team last year, it makes definite sense. Some day, if someone ever asks you, "What does it look like when a club has great offense, but no pitching?" -- you can honestly say -- "See the 2017 Seattle Mariners." They are the quintessential textbook example of what happens when your pitching goes awry. We'll see if it works. If the powers that be honestly think it might help, I'm game for virtually any kind of innovative idea at this point. With the status of the division and how it looks to be shaping up once again, it certainly can't hurt. Yeah, sure. Why not?
Good stuff ..I grew up watching Nolan and he was my favorite pitcher.
He threw so many innings and never got hurt all the way till he did at almost 47 years old!
I think theres a big mental aspect to pitching a lot of innings that a lot of young pitchers never develop
or have because there is this "afraid of getting hurt" "be safe" culture.
Some people are simply not made to pitch body wise but you see at kids games parents want them there
for some special status reason(s).
To me a 6 man rotation just doesn't work.
You are not getting out what you are paying into for one.
Most pitchers suck after having extended time off and still get hurt.
A arm needs a balance beween too little and too much time between starts to stay conditioned.
There is the mental part as well for most never have been in a 6 man rotation.
Why even use it when a guy is going 6 innings max?You barely sweat doing that.
All these changes in sports to make everything easier and todays players are better?
 

Shanegotyou11

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Yes I believe David cone in game 5 vs our M's, cone was at 148 pitches.

The M's need another solid starting pitcher IMO.
 

Sports Hernia

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Shanegotyou11":3vic4ksh said:
Yes I believe David cone in game 5 vs our M's, cone was at 148 pitches.

The M's need another solid starting pitcher IMO.
Cone pretty much blew his arm out in that game too.
 
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