US Mens Soccer

USMNT has poor development and management. That is why they lag behind in soccer. Germany and France have both strong men’s and women’s national team. There’s absolutely no excuse the USMNT is this poor competitively in the sport. Poor meaning they aren’t in the top 10. Where they should be on a consistent basis. They are losing to countries they have no business losing to....Jamaica, Trinidad, and Venezuela. We’ll see how they fare against Trinidad tonight but I don’t see the team heading in a positive direction.

hawkfan68":192p91mv said:

USMNT has poor development and management. That is why they lag behind in soccer. Germany and France have both strong men’s and women’s national team. There’s absolutely no excuse the USMNT is this poor competitively in the sport. Poor meaning they aren’t in the top 10. Where they should be on a consistent basis. They are losing to countries they have no business losing to....Jamaica, Trinidad, and Venezuela. We’ll see how they fare against Trinidad tonight but I don’t see the team heading in a positive direction.

Click to expand...

France didn't even qualify for the World Cup in the 90's and got bounced twice in the group stage in the 2000's.

So disappointment and underachieving is a thing even with the major soccer powers......of which the US isn't one.

And to expect us to be is naive and not a realistic expectation. Our expectations should be solely based in growth and development......only then will the results on the world stage follow.

Sgt. Largent":wi658a06 said:

hawkfan68":wi658a06 said:

USMNT has poor development and management. That is why they lag behind in soccer. Germany and France have both strong men’s and women’s national team. There’s absolutely no excuse the USMNT is this poor competitively in the sport. Poor meaning they aren’t in the top 10. Where they should be on a consistent basis. They are losing to countries they have no business losing to....Jamaica, Trinidad, and Venezuela. We’ll see how they fare against Trinidad tonight but I don’t see the team heading in a positive direction.

Click to expand...

France didn't even qualify for the World Cup in the 90's and got bounced twice in the group stage in the 2000's.

So disappointment and underachieving is a thing even with the major soccer powers......of which the US isn't one.

And to expect us to be is naive and not a realistic expectation. Our expectations should be solely based in growth and development......only then will the results on the world stage follow.

Click to expand...

Guess what the US finished 3rd in World Cup in 1930. I’m not talking about something 20+ years ago. Where does France rank currently? They are in the top 5. US ranked #5 in 2006. Since that time they have gone backwards. Getting back to that level is realistic. What makes it seem unrealistic is having passive attitude about it. Which is what has created this problem in the first place.

USMNT is playing much better in the second half against Trinidad and Tobago. Hopefully this type of play continues.

hawkfan68":3c3gm8u6 said:

Sgt. Largent":3c3gm8u6 said:

hawkfan68":3c3gm8u6 said:

USMNT has poor development and management. That is why they lag behind in soccer. Germany and France have both strong men’s and women’s national team. There’s absolutely no excuse the USMNT is this poor competitively in the sport. Poor meaning they aren’t in the top 10. Where they should be on a consistent basis. They are losing to countries they have no business losing to....Jamaica, Trinidad, and Venezuela. We’ll see how they fare against Trinidad tonight but I don’t see the team heading in a positive direction.

Click to expand...

France didn't even qualify for the World Cup in the 90's and got bounced twice in the group stage in the 2000's.

So disappointment and underachieving is a thing even with the major soccer powers......of which the US isn't one.

And to expect us to be is naive and not a realistic expectation. Our expectations should be solely based in growth and development......only then will the results on the world stage follow.

Click to expand...

Guess what the US finished 3rd in World Cup in 1930. I’m not talking about something 20+ years ago. Where does France rank currently? They are in the top 5. US ranked #5 in 2006. Since that time they have gone backwards. Getting back to that level is realistic. What makes it seem unrealistic is having passive attitude about it. Which is what has created this problem in the first place.

Click to expand...

There is no passive attitude. However, discontent doesn't ring as loud here in the US. Results from a tournament 80 years ago, set in an entirely different era (as well as tournament structure) is ignoring so many other factors.

Looking at 2006, things gave gone backwards, but only recently. They also went backwards for Italy, Chile, Netherlands. Cycles are quite common and the usmnt took the first steps in addressing it before the fall off in the top team. Now they've taken the 2nd step with the new coach. Will the new coach and all these young players merge into a strong unit?

There are not easy fixes to these things. England underachieving massively for 20 years and there are still doubts their purple patch is real. France just got shredded by Turkey with the best team in the world.

Lot to be said how things shake out but the differences between us soccer in 2006 and 2019 are about the same as 1930 to 2006. The organization from the lowest level is far more structured and deep then ever before. The playing and development opportunities for a US soccer player are far more expansive than ever before.

The difficulty on top of it is that the US is also transitioning from many vets to many young players.

Some positives from the TT game though

hawkfan68":2ncet80h said:

USMNT is playing much better in the second half against Trinidad and Tobago. Hopefully this type of play continues.

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Was a heavy attacking lineup with high wing backs. Required solid cb play and lots of pressing from the cms. Early in the cms could not close out TTs counter and they found the gaps where the backs had left.

2nd half Bradley pressed higher and CBs split to win longer outlets instead of chasing. Kept TT hemmed in and then it was a matter of being creative in breaking down the two banks.

It's an interesting, complicated and aggressive system predicated on pace, possession in the middle and attacking third, and pressing high. Very difficult for younger players to adopt as it requires a lot of interaction. Liverpool run it for example.

hawkfan68":25zh1qoq said:

Sgt. Largent":25zh1qoq said:

hawkfan68":25zh1qoq said:

USMNT has poor development and management. That is why they lag behind in soccer. Germany and France have both strong men’s and women’s national team. There’s absolutely no excuse the USMNT is this poor competitively in the sport. Poor meaning they aren’t in the top 10. Where they should be on a consistent basis. They are losing to countries they have no business losing to....Jamaica, Trinidad, and Venezuela. We’ll see how they fare against Trinidad tonight but I don’t see the team heading in a positive direction.

Click to expand...

France didn't even qualify for the World Cup in the 90's and got bounced twice in the group stage in the 2000's.

So disappointment and underachieving is a thing even with the major soccer powers......of which the US isn't one.

And to expect us to be is naive and not a realistic expectation. Our expectations should be solely based in growth and development......only then will the results on the world stage follow.

Click to expand...

Guess what the US finished 3rd in World Cup in 1930. I’m not talking about something 20+ years ago. Where does France rank currently? They are in the top 5. US ranked #5 in 2006. Since that time they have gone backwards. Getting back to that level is realistic. What makes it seem unrealistic is having passive attitude about it. Which is what has created this problem in the first place.

Click to expand...

Passive is not doing a complete upheaval of the US Soccer program from the top down. Gulati is gone, Klinsmann is gone, and we're right at the beginning stages of ushering in not only a new hierarchy internally with management and coaches, but a new approach to development.

So sure, you can expect anything you want, but IMO it's not a realistic expectation to expect the US to be a top 5 program at this point in time.

I like what I've seen so far with what Berhalter, and I do think we're finally going in the right direction on development, academies and getting everyone on the same page in how to develop the next generations of great young soccer players to hopefully compete with the top 10 countries on a more consistent basis.

The bottom line is that there is no history of greatness on the men's team. We had that 50s team which upset England, the afore-mentioned 1930 team, and a few teams that went deep. Meanwhile, the women's team came out of the gate as a great team.

I look forward to the future of the men's team, with developed players who are at least capable of playing for gold.

Threedee":3484nl48 said:

The bottom line is that there is no history of greatness on the men's team. We had that 50s team which upset England, the afore-mentioned 1930 team, and a few teams that went deep. Meanwhile, the women's team came out of the gate as a great team.

I look forward to the future of the men's team, with developed players who are at least capable of playing for gold.

Click to expand...

What happened in 1930 has no bearing on the landscape of modern soccer in any country.

The women "came out of the gate" fast because the nation had been committed to the women's game for decades before there was a Women's World Cup.

The rest of the world is just catching up to the US and you can see that in their development structure.

Uncle Si":28jm0q1t said:

Threedee":28jm0q1t said:

The bottom line is that there is no history of greatness on the men's team. We had that 50s team which upset England, the afore-mentioned 1930 team, and a few teams that went deep. Meanwhile, the women's team came out of the gate as a great team.

I look forward to the future of the men's team, with developed players who are at least capable of playing for gold.

Click to expand...

What happened in 1930 has no bearing on the landscape of modern soccer in any country.

The women "came out of the gate" fast because the nation had been committed to the women's game for decades before there was a Women's World Cup.

The rest of the world is just catching up to the US and you can see that in their development structure.

Click to expand...

I always figured it was because:

American Women > Foreign Women

Threedee":m8sbful6 said:

The bottom line is that there is no history of greatness on the men's team. We had that 50s team which upset England, the afore-mentioned 1930 team, and a few teams that went deep. Meanwhile, the women's team came out of the gate as a great team.

I look forward to the future of the men's team, with developed players who are at least capable of playing for gold.

Click to expand...

First of all there wasn't even a Women's World Cup until 1991, and the reason our women "came out of the gate a great team" is because they had a 20 year head start on the rest of the planet in developing their sport, and in another 20 years we won't be the same powerhouse we are now. It used to 2-3 other countries challenging us, now it's 10, and in 20 years it'll be 30.

So you're expecting the men to do the same even though they're competing with world soccer powers that have FAR superior leagues, infrastructure, academies and development programs in place for literally decades and decades longer than our men's program........and still continue to run laps around us in all those areas.

Stop comparing the two just because we're 'Merica, and everyone thinks we should just automatically win at everything cause it's us.

Threedee":1v8rjl1s said:

Uncle Si":1v8rjl1s said:

Threedee":1v8rjl1s said:

The bottom line is that there is no history of greatness on the men's team. We had that 50s team which upset England, the afore-mentioned 1930 team, and a few teams that went deep. Meanwhile, the women's team came out of the gate as a great team.

I look forward to the future of the men's team, with developed players who are at least capable of playing for gold.

Click to expand...

What happened in 1930 has no bearing on the landscape of modern soccer in any country.

The women "came out of the gate" fast because the nation had been committed to the women's game for decades before there was a Women's World Cup.

The rest of the world is just catching up to the US and you can see that in their development structure.

Click to expand...

I always figured it was because:

American Women > Foreign Women

Click to expand...

Well... yeah. But for reasons.

Frances academy and league structure is now more advanced and stable than ours. So is England's.Most major clubs now have a Women's component and academy for example. Most MLS teams do neither.

These nations are working hard to catch up after ignoring the women's game for years.

This is not to excuse the failures on the men's side. Only perspective for the women's. They have issues that may become apparent vey soon as well.

I was just being cheeky about the > remark. That was intended to be a jingoistic "Murricah" type plug about the superiority of the American woman, and not a comment on the state of women's soccer. Your quote above about how our women were better prepared in 1991 stands.

Threedee":m4d3477h said:

I was just being cheeky about the > remark. That was intended to be a jingoistic "Murricah" type plug about the superiority of the American woman, and not a comment on the state of women's soccer. Your quote above about how our women were better prepared in 1991 stands.

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I knew what you meant. All good.

Nice win for USMNT tonight.

USMNT dominated possession last night. They just couldn't finish...seemed like they should have had 3-4 goals instead of 1 but they did win. It would be nice to see a Pulisic, Morris, Altidore front line. Probably won't happen though.

hawkfan68":3vagmods said:

USMNT dominated possession last night. They just couldn't finish...seemed like they should have had 3-4 goals instead of 1 but they did win. It would be nice to see a Pulisic, Morris, Altidore front line. Probably won't happen though.

Click to expand...

I think you will see more of this as we move towards WC qualifying.

Now is the time you want to experiment if you're Berhalter with players, lineups and formations, especially against some of these weaker Gold Cup teams.

Sgt. Largent":1y8ubj4v said:

hawkfan68":1y8ubj4v said:

USMNT dominated possession last night. They just couldn't finish...seemed like they should have had 3-4 goals instead of 1 but they did win. It would be nice to see a Pulisic, Morris, Altidore front line. Probably won't happen though.

Click to expand...

I think you will see more of this as we move towards WC qualifying.

Now is the time you want to experiment if you're Berhalter with players, lineups and formations, especially against some of these weaker Gold Cup teams.

Click to expand...

That lineup wouldn't make much sense though. Those are not 3 types of players that could play well together.

Morris and Pulisic maybe... but then you need an agile and creative 9 that will run off him. Zardes maybe but better. Sargent will be that player. The team wants to tuck wingers in and use the backs to overlap. Antidote just screws it all up because he's not technical enough for the incisive passing in the center and not quick enough to run into spaces created by the condensed spacing of the front 3.

Also need a very active 10 or 8 to run off and over Pulisic.


But yes, certainly more exploration to come.

Uncle Si":27l9msnj said:

Sgt. Largent":27l9msnj said:

hawkfan68":27l9msnj said:

USMNT dominated possession last night. They just couldn't finish...seemed like they should have had 3-4 goals instead of 1 but they did win. It would be nice to see a Pulisic, Morris, Altidore front line. Probably won't happen though.

Click to expand...

I think you will see more of this as we move towards WC qualifying.

Now is the time you want to experiment if you're Berhalter with players, lineups and formations, especially against some of these weaker Gold Cup teams.

Click to expand...

That lineup wouldn't make much sense though. Those are not 3 types of players that could play well together.

Morris and Pulisic maybe... but then you need an agile and creative 9 that will run off him. Zardes maybe but better. Sargent will be that player. The team wants to tuck singers in and use the backs to overlap. Antidote just screws it all up because he's not technical enough for the incisive passing in the center and not quick enough to run into spaces created by the condensed spacing of the front 3.

Also need a very active 10 or 8 to run off and over Pulisic.


But yes, certainly more exploration to come.

Click to expand...

I've never been a big fan of Altidore, he's not a consistent enough target forward, too streaky. Yes he can get hot and score a bunch of goals, but then he can disappear for months at a time...........and IMO he's an antiquated style of forward. Stationary hold up forward that uses his size to create space, but needs to be perfectly serviced to be effective.

Also not in love with Zardes, but at least he's got more quickness and speed to give a more dynamic and dangerous look to our attack.

That was the most uninspiring 1-0 win I've seen. Curacao looked like the better team for much of the second half.

Last night was what I hope this team can be on a consistent basis going forward. That was probably their best performance of the last 2 years.