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Jack Z fired from the Mariners!

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Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:52 am

Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:55 am

Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:18 am
  • Great news, now if we can just fire Chuck, Howard and find an owner that actually cares we'd be in business.
    Sgt. Largent
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:19 am
  • About damn time!
    Hawk-Lock
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:19 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Great news, now if we can just fire Chuck, Howard and find an owner that actually cares we'd be in business.



    Owners have spent a lot of money to be fair to them.

    Manager is next, don't we think?
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:25 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Great news, now if we can just fire Chuck, Howard and find an owner that actually cares we'd be in business.


    Chuck actually resigned a year ago or so. Kevin Mather is the new President of baseball operations. Howard is still there.

    And yes, I agree that having a single owner rather than a board at Nintendo would be helpful for accountability (the M's as a whole are often tentative and slow to change, and seem stuck in their approach), at least they're spending money.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:30 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Great news, now if we can just fire Chuck, Howard and find an owner that actually cares we'd be in business.



    Owners have spent a lot of money to be fair to them.

    Manager is next, don't we think?


    Yeah usually GM and manager go hand in hand when you're cleaning house.

    As far as our ownership, who owns the M's now anyway? Yamauchi died in 2013, now it's some nebulous corporate conglomerate run by the same idiots Ellis and Lincoln that have been failures for 30 years.

    I don't think we'll ever be good until we have an owner that's passionate about baseball and winning, not a bunch of bafoons collecting paychecks sitting around a conference table.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:10 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Great news, now if we can just fire Chuck, Howard and find an owner that actually cares we'd be in business.

    This, sadly.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:00 am
  • I would like to see the M's hire a GM or manager (assuming Lloyd goes as well) who can bring a winning culture. Similar to what Madden brought the Cubs this year, or what Buck Showalter brought to the Orioles. There is a culture of losing and disappointment that grows each year inside the M's organization and fanbase. The last thing we need is another small time hire like Lloyd. Hire someone who has won before, even if it means throwing some extra money at him.

    The last thing we need is another Bavasi/JackZ/Lloyd/BobMelvin/Wedge/etc. Make a hire like what the Seahawks did in 2010 with Pete Carroll.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:02 am
  • The higher ups get a lot of blame, but it is pretty easy to see that 90% of this team's issues are on the field. They haven't been finding the right talent and/or grooming it. If they had just hit on like one or two of Montero/Smoak/Zunino/Ackley/Hultzen, this whole thing could look entirely different. Instead, each of them is basically a monumental type bust. When Kyle Seager is the only halfway decent offensive player your system has produced in over ten years, you've got major problems with your baseball people. I guess you can blame the people that hire these baseball people, and that's fair. I guess if we had better upper management, maybe they would've hired somebody better than Jack Z.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:05 am
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:I would like to see the M's hire a GM or manager (assuming Lloyd goes as well) who can bring a winning culture. Similar to what Madden brought the Cubs this year, or what Buck Showalter brought to the Orioles. There is a culture of losing and disappointment that grows each year inside the M's organization and fanbase. The last thing we need is another small time hire like Lloyd. Hire someone who has won before, even if it means throwing some extra money at him.

    The last thing we need is another Bavasi/JackZ/Lloyd/BobMelvin/Wedge/etc. Make a hire like what the Seahawks did in 2010 with Pete Carroll.

    The problem, is that guys that are winning don't get fired. We don't have the cache of a Chicago Cubs. We're not going to woo a hugely successful manager from his current job. Our choices are to take an assistant from a winning club, take a fired manager that we believe would do a good job in a different situation than his old one, or take a chance on somebody that hasn't done it before.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:08 am
  • Honestly doesn't matter. If you think Z had full autonomy you aren't paying attention.

    Until ownership lets baseball people make baseball decisions, the GM is a meaningless position with little say in Seattle
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:11 am
  • Tical21 wrote:The higher ups get a lot of blame, but it is pretty easy to see that 90% of this team's issues are on the field. They haven't been finding the right talent and/or grooming it. If they had just hit on like one or two of Montero/Smoak/Zunino/Ackley/Hultzen, this whole thing could look entirely different. Instead, each of them is basically a monumental type bust. When Kyle Seager is the only halfway decent offensive player your system has produced in over ten years, you've got major problems with your baseball people. I guess you can blame the people that hire these baseball people, and that's fair. I guess if we had better upper management, maybe they would've hired somebody better than Jack Z.


    I don't blame the Jack Z hiring, he was an up and coming scout type GM that was SUPPOSE to have an immense knowledge of how to build a successful farm system.........he just failed miserably at it.

    I do blame our ownership for sticking with Jack 2-3 years longer than they should have. Once Jack's first wave of prospects started hitting the majors and sucking. Ackley, Franklin, Fields, Hultzen, and even Zunino has been a bust.

    But this is what happens when you piece meal together an ownership group with too many cooks in the kitchen all getting in each other's way. Consensus is impossible, especially if they're having to clear everything through some foreign entity in the far east. Just dysfunctional all the way around.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:40 am
  • Not at all surprised by the firing - but the timing seems rather odd. Why not wait until the end of the season? Maybe they already have someone in mind, and realized that if they waited until after the season ends, that they would lose the opportunity?
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:44 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:The higher ups get a lot of blame, but it is pretty easy to see that 90% of this team's issues are on the field. They haven't been finding the right talent and/or grooming it. If they had just hit on like one or two of Montero/Smoak/Zunino/Ackley/Hultzen, this whole thing could look entirely different. Instead, each of them is basically a monumental type bust. When Kyle Seager is the only halfway decent offensive player your system has produced in over ten years, you've got major problems with your baseball people. I guess you can blame the people that hire these baseball people, and that's fair. I guess if we had better upper management, maybe they would've hired somebody better than Jack Z.


    I don't blame the Jack Z hiring, he was an up and coming scout type GM that was SUPPOSE to have an immense knowledge of how to build a successful farm system.........he just failed miserably at it.

    I do blame our ownership for sticking with Jack 2-3 years longer than they should have. Once Jack's first wave of prospects started hitting the majors and sucking. Ackley, Franklin, Fields, Hultzen, and even Zunino has been a bust.

    But this is what happens when you piece meal together an ownership group with too many cooks in the kitchen all getting in each other's way. Consensus is impossible, especially if they're having to clear everything through some foreign entity in the far east. Just dysfunctional all the way around.


    I agree that Z was fired a few years too late - was surprised he lasted through last season. His end of the year push toward respectability clearly saved his job.

    I was worried that Z would mortgage the "farm" (what farm), to try and save the season.....trading away the little remaining talent left in the farm system to try and save his job. I am now thinking that he probably tried to make moves - but was vetoed by management - thus creating the current situation.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:31 pm
  • Yeah I didn't mind the Z hiring at the time either, they just gave him entirely too much time.

    As for saying that we can't bring in a big name manager, I disagree with that. The Orioles aren't a big name franchise, they got Showter. The Indians were able to lure in Francona. Yes we are a smaller market, but we still have big names like Cano and Felix that a lot of managers would love to coach.

    As for the GM, I don't even know who is available, but let's hope the front office makes the right choice.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 1:43 pm
  • Seattle is 59-69 and seven games out of the second American League wild-card spot. Mather said the reason for the mid-season firing was that he believes there will be a lot of changes in baseball operation departments around MLB. He said commissioner Rob Manfred told him Seattle is a "plumb market." Mather said he wants to get an early start and that it was critical that any potential GM could watch the team in September.

    "It's tough when it's November and free agents are already signed, trades are already made," Mather said. "I want to hit the ground running. I'd like to get this position filled as quickly as possible so this offseason isn't lost.

    "I think the Mariners have the nucleus of a very good baseball team and October baseball is, if not in (2015), then '16, '17 and beyond. And I can't afford to lose an offseason right now."

    Mather said he talked to the chairman and other key owners about his decision on Wednesday and Thursday.

    "I've learned along the way it's best not to surprise your ownership," he said.


    Mather said he told Lloyd McClendon on Friday morning that the manager still has complete support from the organization, but that he and all staff members will report to the new general manager, who will ultimately make the decisions. Mather plans to address the team on Friday afternoon.

    Mather said he views the Mariners' roster as "really close."

    "This year is hard to explain because I thought we were close in March of this year," he said.

    Mather said he has a list of potential candidates, which he plans to eventually narrow down to three or four. The next general manager won't necessarily be centrally focused on analytics or sabermetrics, Mather said, but he'll be able to use all of his resources. Mather added that the organization will be looking for someone who "understands all parts and is smart enough to delegate smart people to help him."

    Mather said it's too soon to tell whether the team needs to consider a complete roster tear-down, a route that the Houston Astros took a few seasons ago. He hopes that's not the proposals by potential Mariners general managers, but understands it might be.

    "Hear it from one person


    http://mynorthwest.com/258/2802171/Mari ... witterfeed
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:16 pm
  • Spleenhawk2.0 wrote:Not at all surprised by the firing - but the timing seems rather odd.


    It seems weird to me, too. Mike Salk posted an article yesterday calling for the firing, and then Jack was fired the next morning. I don't follow the Ms too closely, but is ownership really that manipulable or does Salk generally act as their mouthpiece? Timing seems awfully coincidental.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:14 pm
  • Time to rebuild certain parts of this team.Hire Jed Hoyer off the Cubs and get this thing started.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:29 pm
  • The organization makes it so hard to root for them based on ownership and management, not the losses. I can handle the losing. It's the not caring that truly sucks.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:38 pm
  • Lather, Rinse, repeat.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:11 pm
  • Tech Worlds wrote:Lather, Rinse, repeat.

    Yup, anyone excited about this news get ready for more of the same
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:41 pm
  • DavidSeven wrote:
    Spleenhawk2.0 wrote:Not at all surprised by the firing - but the timing seems rather odd.


    It seems weird to me, too. Mike Salk posted an article yesterday calling for the firing, and then Jack was fired the next morning. I don't follow the Ms too closely, but is ownership really that manipulable or does Salk generally act as their mouthpiece? Timing seems awfully coincidental.


    My guess is Salk has an insider and decided to write that piece when he knew it was all but a matter of time until Z was fired. As for the timing, I'm fine with it. It allows them to start officially looking around right now so that they can (hopefully) get a head start on some of the other teams that may end up going thru the same thing at the end of the season.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:20 pm
  • mbtitleist wrote:My guess is Salk has an insider and decided to write that piece when he knew it was all but a matter of time until Z was fired.


    Makes sense, though it sort of makes Salk look like an opportunist to me.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:43 pm
  • The problem is they need a baseball guy running a baseball team and Lincoln and Armstrong are not that. They hire guys and don't let them be GM's, it's why Gillick left and Lou left.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:57 pm
  • Until Howie goes expect more of the same. The things I've heard from folks that used to work for the M's is that nothing gets done without Darth Howard's approval.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:50 pm
  • I'd bet 1000/1 that nobody involved with this decision has ever heard the name Mike Salk before. You guys didn't expect it to happen before the season ended? I might be wrong, but I think this is about when it generally happens. When you're on the hot seat, and it becomes clearly evident you're not going to be able to keep your job, any day could be the day. I see nothing odd about the timing of this.

    Are they going to be able to make a splash hire? How fun would Steve Philiips be?

    It's going to be really hard for the GM they bring in to keep his job. DJ Peterson still looks terrible this year. Alex Jackson can't hit in A ball. This is going to take YEARS. I hate to say it. I HATE to say it. I will have tears rolling down my face if they do it, but if they ever want to win while Felix is still in the majors, they need to trade him to another team. Blow it all up. Cano, gone. Cruz, gone. Seager's young enough to keep. It's time to go Houston Astros and get all the young talent we can. It is the one and only chance we have to be any good in 5-7 years. Not doing so only prolongs the misery. Can a new GM get the go-ahead to blow it up? Probably not while our boy Howie is still here.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:50 am
  • Good. I like the touch of sending Mike Zunino down as well. That was a nice touch on showing the ineptness of Jack in rushing a youngster that had a damn promising career ahead of him.

    The fact that he got seven years here is so Mariners.

    Maybe one day this organization can be worth a damn.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:56 am
  • Tical21 wrote:The higher ups get a lot of blame, but it is pretty easy to see that 90% of this team's issues are on the field. They haven't been finding the right talent and/or grooming it. If they had just hit on like one or two of Montero/Smoak/Zunino/Ackley/Hultzen, this whole thing could look entirely different. Instead, each of them is basically a monumental type bust. When Kyle Seager is the only halfway decent offensive player your system has produced in over ten years, you've got major problems with your baseball people. I guess you can blame the people that hire these baseball people, and that's fair. I guess if we had better upper management, maybe they would've hired somebody better than Jack Z.


    Gosh, that "prospect list" is depressing.

    Montero: Development problem coupled with his own lack of self-control.
    Smoak: Rushed, another development problem.
    Zunino: Criminally rushed, and hopefully not ruined.
    Ackley: Development problem, rushed, shuffled between positions.
    Hultzen: "Safest" pick in the draft, much like Aaron Curry. Cross body motion screamed future injury nightmare.

    The minor league system as a whole this year has been a complete exercise in futility. The people in place that develop these "prospects" have failed miserably.

    It's not just an ownership or GM problem. That's a lot of it -- however, the people in place in the development department need to be given their walking papers as well.

    This organization is in a terrible, terrible place with some albatross contracts readying themselves to taking up much of the resources with little benefit.

    It's amazing that this organization has found a way to piss away the career of one of the greatest right handed pitchers ever.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:33 am
  • Right now it is a team without a identity. The Seahawks we known who they are strong D and run the ball down your throat

    The Mariners ?

    Speed ?
    Defense ?
    pitching ?
    Power ?

    I see no true out fielders. We have slow plodders playing R and L and center who knows ?

    We tried converting Ackerley to and out field and we seem to be doing the same with miller.

    This stuff should have been done in the minors along with teaching... Things like how to bunt.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:12 pm
  • I agreed with Tical's post until the trading of Felix, that would be dumb unless it's for Trout or Stanton, and neither team would make that trade. That would set the M's back even farther with a bigger hole to fill as guys like Felix don't grow on trees.
    Plus you expect a Howard Lincoln hired GM to get great value in a trade like that???

    The farm system sucks, and the fundamentals of this team are horrible which is a product of a poorly ran farm system.
    They need to start drafting better and not calling up players until they are fundementally sound.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:05 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:
    It's going to be really hard for the GM they bring in to keep his job. DJ Peterson still looks terrible this year. Alex Jackson can't hit in A ball. This is going to take YEARS. I hate to say it. I HATE to say it. I will have tears rolling down my face if they do it, but if they ever want to win while Felix is still in the majors, they need to trade him to another team. Blow it all up. Cano, gone. Cruz, gone. Seager's young enough to keep. It's time to go Houston Astros and get all the young talent we can. It is the one and only chance we have to be any good in 5-7 years. Not doing so only prolongs the misery. Can a new GM get the go-ahead to blow it up? Probably not while our boy Howie is still here.

    Hahaha this team will not be blown up and there will be no rebuild. Will not happen.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:46 pm
  • Mather said it was not out of the question that the new GM could be hired before the end of the season but I would expect more realistically we will see the new GM in place in the first or second week of October. He expects whoever that person is has already been watching the team closely and doing a thorough evaluation of the organization. In other words, this person will hit the ground running.

    This will be Mather's hire. Chairman and CEO Howard Lincoln will be a part of the process, and Chairman Emeritus John Ellis will most likely be consulted. Final candidates will meet with ownership but when all is said and done, it will be his candidate they go with. He is ready to find that person, but he will practice what he preaches when it comes to asking for help. He will use his resources.

    "I've been in baseball since '89," he said. "I know a lot of baseball executives. I have people I can call, I have people I can jump on an airplane and go see and vet candidates. There's a lot of close, longtime steady baseball people that I am going to lean on. I also have a great ownership group. Their opinions matter and I am gong to make sure that they are heard as well."

    According to a number of national reports, the job in Seattle is very desirable. Two former GMs I talked with today indicated as much, saying the talent in place and resources seemingly available make winning quickly very much a possibility. Mather has a list of candidates that he expects will grow in the coming days. The expectation for the new hire will be great.

    http://mynorthwest.com/374/2802461/What ... r-a-new-GM
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:32 pm
  • KitsapGuy wrote:Mather said it was not out of the question that the new GM could be hired before the end of the season but I would expect more realistically we will see the new GM in place in the first or second week of October. He expects whoever that person is has already been watching the team closely and doing a thorough evaluation of the organization. In other words, this person will hit the ground running.

    This will be Mather's hire. Chairman and CEO Howard Lincoln will be a part of the process, and Chairman Emeritus John Ellis will most likely be consulted. Final candidates will meet with ownership but when all is said and done, it will be his candidate they go with. He is ready to find that person, but he will practice what he preaches when it comes to asking for help. He will use his resources.

    "I've been in baseball since '89," he said. "I know a lot of baseball executives. I have people I can call, I have people I can jump on an airplane and go see and vet candidates. There's a lot of close, longtime steady baseball people that I am going to lean on. I also have a great ownership group. Their opinions matter and I am gong to make sure that they are heard as well."

    According to a number of national reports, the job in Seattle is very desirable. Two former GMs I talked with today indicated as much, saying the talent in place and resources seemingly available make winning quickly very much a possibility. Mather has a list of candidates that he expects will grow in the coming days. The expectation for the new hire will be great.

    http://mynorthwest.com/374/2802461/What ... r-a-new-GM

    The problem is Howard Lincoln is still PART of the process. He is Mather's boss, his fingerprints will be all over this hire as they've been for every FO hire since he's had the position he currently holds. Nothing is different other swaping Mather for Armstrong. As long as Howard has a job with the Mariners, I will expect the same results.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:25 am
  • Yep the whole blessing of everyone and the owners is about making sure the next GM is a yes man and won't make waves. So business as usual.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:45 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Great news, now if we can just fire Chuck, Howard and find an owner that actually cares we'd be in business.



    Owners have spent a lot of money to be fair to them.

    Manager is next, don't we think?


    Yeah, millions on a scoreboard so we can watch the M's fail larger.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:05 pm
  • They said that decision is up to the Next GM. More than likely he'd want his own guy unless they hire the typical "yes man" that Howard Lincoln so desires.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:10 pm
  • About time.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:09 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:They said that decision is up to the Next GM. More than likely he'd want his own guy unless they hire the typical "yes man" that Howard Lincoln so desires.


    New GM : Mr. Lincoln Sir what do you want in a Manager

    Howard : Cheap, Unknown, Just like you are, nobody upstages me around here, oh and he has to be a fall guy as well. I can't afford to take responsibility for anything, it would ruin my reputation.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:07 am
  • They have replaced the GM more than once with the current higher up and the result is?

    Continued sucking. It's time to clean the cupboard and NOT blame players/managers.
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:44 am
  • Largent80 wrote:They have replaced the GM more than once with the current higher up and the result is?

    Continued sucking. It's time to clean the cupboard and NOT blame players/managers.



    116 win season? 4 straight 90+ win seasons. From 96 to 2003 one could argue they were the most successful baseball franchise outside the Yankees. The franchise hasn't always been crap. And it managed to lose its core players in that era and replace them with a whole new line up and bounce to a record setting season. That's the GM and players.

    GMs have a very big input on the direction of the team. Jack Z had a specific philosophy, based on some sort of combination of analytics and old school roster creation that altered the roster significantly over a 5 year period. He wanted young players to mix with a certain veteran presence. It didn't work. That's on him, and the players.
    Uncle Si
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:13 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:They have replaced the GM more than once with the current higher up and the result is?

    Continued sucking. It's time to clean the cupboard and NOT blame players/managers.



    116 win season? 4 straight 90+ win seasons. From 96 to 2003 one could argue they were the most successful baseball franchise outside the Yankees. The franchise hasn't always been crap. And it managed to lose its core players in that era and replace them with a whole new line up and bounce to a record setting season. That's the GM and players.

    GMs have a very big input on the direction of the team. Jack Z had a specific philosophy, based on some sort of combination of analytics and old school roster creation that altered the roster significantly over a 5 year period. He wanted young players to mix with a certain veteran presence. It didn't work. That's on him, and the players.


    Can't blame all of it on him, no matter how scandalous he became. He had an incredible amount of bad luck.
    dumbrabbit
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Thu Sep 03, 2015 9:27 am
  • dumbrabbit wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:They have replaced the GM more than once with the current higher up and the result is?

    Continued sucking. It's time to clean the cupboard and NOT blame players/managers.



    116 win season? 4 straight 90+ win seasons. From 96 to 2003 one could argue they were the most successful baseball franchise outside the Yankees. The franchise hasn't always been crap. And it managed to lose its core players in that era and replace them with a whole new line up and bounce to a record setting season. That's the GM and players.

    GMs have a very big input on the direction of the team. Jack Z had a specific philosophy, based on some sort of combination of analytics and old school roster creation that altered the roster significantly over a 5 year period. He wanted young players to mix with a certain veteran presence. It didn't work. That's on him, and the players.


    Can't blame all of it on him, no matter how scandalous he became. He had an incredible amount of bad luck.


    Definitely wasn't. The players he picked played a massive part.
    Uncle Si
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Thu Sep 03, 2015 10:39 am
  • It was both bad luck and poor construction of the team. Yes he had bad luck on guys like Ackley, Montero, Smoak, etc. but he also made some horrible decisions. For one, he rushed almost every high end prospect. Zunino got called up way too early, you can probably say the same about Ackley. It was just a case of Jack trying to save his ass rather than looking out for the player. He also had a bad habit of signing over the hill veterans: Fernando Rodney, Rickie Weeks, Corrie Hart, etc. He made moves that the Seahawks wouldn't make in a million years.

    And he didn't build around the strength of the team: pitching and the ballpark. He signed slow guys who play poor in the field. The 2015 M's team was putrid on the base paths and not much better in the field. Go watch the KC Royals or Pirates and you'll see two great young teams built on speed and defense.
    Hawk-Lock
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:53 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:It was both bad luck and poor construction of the team. Yes he had bad luck on guys like Ackley, Montero, Smoak, etc. but he also made some horrible decisions. For one, he rushed almost every high end prospect. Zunino got called up way too early, you can probably say the same about Ackley. It was just a case of Jack trying to save his ass rather than looking out for the player. He also had a bad habit of signing over the hill veterans: Fernando Rodney, Rickie Weeks, Corrie Hart, etc. He made moves that the Seahawks wouldn't make in a million years.

    And he didn't build around the strength of the team: pitching and the ballpark. He signed slow guys who play poor in the field. The 2015 M's team was putrid on the base paths and not much better in the field. Go watch the KC Royals or Pirates and you'll see two great young teams built on speed and defense.


    The thing is he came from KC, the fact he went to slow and non athletic players is baffling.
    chris98251
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:00 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:It was both bad luck and poor construction of the team. Yes he had bad luck on guys like Ackley, Montero, Smoak, etc. but he also made some horrible decisions. For one, he rushed almost every high end prospect. Zunino got called up way too early, you can probably say the same about Ackley. It was just a case of Jack trying to save his ass rather than looking out for the player. He also had a bad habit of signing over the hill veterans: Fernando Rodney, Rickie Weeks, Corrie Hart, etc. He made moves that the Seahawks wouldn't make in a million years.

    And he didn't build around the strength of the team: pitching and the ballpark. He signed slow guys who play poor in the field. The 2015 M's team was putrid on the base paths and not much better in the field. Go watch the KC Royals or Pirates and you'll see two great young teams built on speed and defense.


    The thing is he came from KC, the fact he went to slow and non athletic players is baffling.


    I don't think he's ever had ties to KC, he was with the Brewers before he came to Seattle.
    Hawk-Lock
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Re: Jack Z fired from the Mariners!
Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:08 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:It was both bad luck and poor construction of the team. Yes he had bad luck on guys like Ackley, Montero, Smoak, etc. but he also made some horrible decisions. For one, he rushed almost every high end prospect. Zunino got called up way too early, you can probably say the same about Ackley. It was just a case of Jack trying to save his ass rather than looking out for the player. He also had a bad habit of signing over the hill veterans: Fernando Rodney, Rickie Weeks, Corrie Hart, etc. He made moves that the Seahawks wouldn't make in a million years.

    And he didn't build around the strength of the team: pitching and the ballpark. He signed slow guys who play poor in the field. The 2015 M's team was putrid on the base paths and not much better in the field. Go watch the KC Royals or Pirates and you'll see two great young teams built on speed and defense.

    You're giving him way too much credit. He didn't have that much power and never had final say
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