Jack Z fired from the Mariners!

Sgt. Largent

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Great news, now if we can just fire Chuck, Howard and find an owner that actually cares we'd be in business.
 

Uncle Si

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Sgt. Largent":15sln3n7 said:
Great news, now if we can just fire Chuck, Howard and find an owner that actually cares we'd be in business.


Owners have spent a lot of money to be fair to them.

Manager is next, don't we think?
 

jkitsune

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Sgt. Largent":kaajzj5y said:
Great news, now if we can just fire Chuck, Howard and find an owner that actually cares we'd be in business.

Chuck actually resigned a year ago or so. Kevin Mather is the new President of baseball operations. Howard is still there.

And yes, I agree that having a single owner rather than a board at Nintendo would be helpful for accountability (the M's as a whole are often tentative and slow to change, and seem stuck in their approach), at least they're spending money.
 

Sgt. Largent

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Uncle Si":1cjl0ohh said:
Sgt. Largent":1cjl0ohh said:
Great news, now if we can just fire Chuck, Howard and find an owner that actually cares we'd be in business.


Owners have spent a lot of money to be fair to them.

Manager is next, don't we think?

Yeah usually GM and manager go hand in hand when you're cleaning house.

As far as our ownership, who owns the M's now anyway? Yamauchi died in 2013, now it's some nebulous corporate conglomerate run by the same idiots Ellis and Lincoln that have been failures for 30 years.

I don't think we'll ever be good until we have an owner that's passionate about baseball and winning, not a bunch of bafoons collecting paychecks sitting around a conference table.
 

Hawk-Lock

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I would like to see the M's hire a GM or manager (assuming Lloyd goes as well) who can bring a winning culture. Similar to what Madden brought the Cubs this year, or what Buck Showalter brought to the Orioles. There is a culture of losing and disappointment that grows each year inside the M's organization and fanbase. The last thing we need is another small time hire like Lloyd. Hire someone who has won before, even if it means throwing some extra money at him.

The last thing we need is another Bavasi/JackZ/Lloyd/BobMelvin/Wedge/etc. Make a hire like what the Seahawks did in 2010 with Pete Carroll.
 

Tical21

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The higher ups get a lot of blame, but it is pretty easy to see that 90% of this team's issues are on the field. They haven't been finding the right talent and/or grooming it. If they had just hit on like one or two of Montero/Smoak/Zunino/Ackley/Hultzen, this whole thing could look entirely different. Instead, each of them is basically a monumental type bust. When Kyle Seager is the only halfway decent offensive player your system has produced in over ten years, you've got major problems with your baseball people. I guess you can blame the people that hire these baseball people, and that's fair. I guess if we had better upper management, maybe they would've hired somebody better than Jack Z.
 

Tical21

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Hawk-Lock":7w2unrbo said:
I would like to see the M's hire a GM or manager (assuming Lloyd goes as well) who can bring a winning culture. Similar to what Madden brought the Cubs this year, or what Buck Showalter brought to the Orioles. There is a culture of losing and disappointment that grows each year inside the M's organization and fanbase. The last thing we need is another small time hire like Lloyd. Hire someone who has won before, even if it means throwing some extra money at him.

The last thing we need is another Bavasi/JackZ/Lloyd/BobMelvin/Wedge/etc. Make a hire like what the Seahawks did in 2010 with Pete Carroll.
The problem, is that guys that are winning don't get fired. We don't have the cache of a Chicago Cubs. We're not going to woo a hugely successful manager from his current job. Our choices are to take an assistant from a winning club, take a fired manager that we believe would do a good job in a different situation than his old one, or take a chance on somebody that hasn't done it before.
 

Hawkfan77

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Honestly doesn't matter. If you think Z had full autonomy you aren't paying attention.

Until ownership lets baseball people make baseball decisions, the GM is a meaningless position with little say in Seattle
 

Sgt. Largent

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Tical21":25xik9cq said:
The higher ups get a lot of blame, but it is pretty easy to see that 90% of this team's issues are on the field. They haven't been finding the right talent and/or grooming it. If they had just hit on like one or two of Montero/Smoak/Zunino/Ackley/Hultzen, this whole thing could look entirely different. Instead, each of them is basically a monumental type bust. When Kyle Seager is the only halfway decent offensive player your system has produced in over ten years, you've got major problems with your baseball people. I guess you can blame the people that hire these baseball people, and that's fair. I guess if we had better upper management, maybe they would've hired somebody better than Jack Z.

I don't blame the Jack Z hiring, he was an up and coming scout type GM that was SUPPOSE to have an immense knowledge of how to build a successful farm system.........he just failed miserably at it.

I do blame our ownership for sticking with Jack 2-3 years longer than they should have. Once Jack's first wave of prospects started hitting the majors and sucking. Ackley, Franklin, Fields, Hultzen, and even Zunino has been a bust.

But this is what happens when you piece meal together an ownership group with too many cooks in the kitchen all getting in each other's way. Consensus is impossible, especially if they're having to clear everything through some foreign entity in the far east. Just dysfunctional all the way around.
 

Spleenhawk2.0

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Not at all surprised by the firing - but the timing seems rather odd. Why not wait until the end of the season? Maybe they already have someone in mind, and realized that if they waited until after the season ends, that they would lose the opportunity?
 

Spleenhawk2.0

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Sgt. Largent":li5d9pu0 said:
Tical21":li5d9pu0 said:
The higher ups get a lot of blame, but it is pretty easy to see that 90% of this team's issues are on the field. They haven't been finding the right talent and/or grooming it. If they had just hit on like one or two of Montero/Smoak/Zunino/Ackley/Hultzen, this whole thing could look entirely different. Instead, each of them is basically a monumental type bust. When Kyle Seager is the only halfway decent offensive player your system has produced in over ten years, you've got major problems with your baseball people. I guess you can blame the people that hire these baseball people, and that's fair. I guess if we had better upper management, maybe they would've hired somebody better than Jack Z.

I don't blame the Jack Z hiring, he was an up and coming scout type GM that was SUPPOSE to have an immense knowledge of how to build a successful farm system.........he just failed miserably at it.

I do blame our ownership for sticking with Jack 2-3 years longer than they should have. Once Jack's first wave of prospects started hitting the majors and sucking. Ackley, Franklin, Fields, Hultzen, and even Zunino has been a bust.

But this is what happens when you piece meal together an ownership group with too many cooks in the kitchen all getting in each other's way. Consensus is impossible, especially if they're having to clear everything through some foreign entity in the far east. Just dysfunctional all the way around.

I agree that Z was fired a few years too late - was surprised he lasted through last season. His end of the year push toward respectability clearly saved his job.

I was worried that Z would mortgage the "farm" (what farm), to try and save the season.....trading away the little remaining talent left in the farm system to try and save his job. I am now thinking that he probably tried to make moves - but was vetoed by management - thus creating the current situation.
 

Hawk-Lock

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Yeah I didn't mind the Z hiring at the time either, they just gave him entirely too much time.

As for saying that we can't bring in a big name manager, I disagree with that. The Orioles aren't a big name franchise, they got Showter. The Indians were able to lure in Francona. Yes we are a smaller market, but we still have big names like Cano and Felix that a lot of managers would love to coach.

As for the GM, I don't even know who is available, but let's hope the front office makes the right choice.
 

KitsapGuy

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Seattle is 59-69 and seven games out of the second American League wild-card spot. Mather said the reason for the mid-season firing was that he believes there will be a lot of changes in baseball operation departments around MLB. He said commissioner Rob Manfred told him Seattle is a "plumb market." Mather said he wants to get an early start and that it was critical that any potential GM could watch the team in September.

"It's tough when it's November and free agents are already signed, trades are already made," Mather said. "I want to hit the ground running. I'd like to get this position filled as quickly as possible so this offseason isn't lost.

"I think the Mariners have the nucleus of a very good baseball team and October baseball is, if not in (2015), then '16, '17 and beyond. And I can't afford to lose an offseason right now."

Mather said he talked to the chairman and other key owners about his decision on Wednesday and Thursday.

"I've learned along the way it's best not to surprise your ownership," he said.

Mather said he told Lloyd McClendon on Friday morning that the manager still has complete support from the organization, but that he and all staff members will report to the new general manager, who will ultimately make the decisions. Mather plans to address the team on Friday afternoon.

Mather said he views the Mariners' roster as "really close."

"This year is hard to explain because I thought we were close in March of this year," he said.

Mather said he has a list of potential candidates, which he plans to eventually narrow down to three or four. The next general manager won't necessarily be centrally focused on analytics or sabermetrics, Mather said, but he'll be able to use all of his resources. Mather added that the organization will be looking for someone who "understands all parts and is smart enough to delegate smart people to help him."

Mather said it's too soon to tell whether the team needs to consider a complete roster tear-down, a route that the Houston Astros took a few seasons ago. He hopes that's not the proposals by potential Mariners general managers, but understands it might be.

"Hear it from one person

http://mynorthwest.com/258/2802171/Mari ... witterfeed
 

DavidSeven

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Spleenhawk2.0":15h87zp6 said:
Not at all surprised by the firing - but the timing seems rather odd.

It seems weird to me, too. Mike Salk posted an article yesterday calling for the firing, and then Jack was fired the next morning. I don't follow the Ms too closely, but is ownership really that manipulable or does Salk generally act as their mouthpiece? Timing seems awfully coincidental.
 

IndyHawk

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Time to rebuild certain parts of this team.Hire Jed Hoyer off the Cubs and get this thing started.
 

Laloosh

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The organization makes it so hard to root for them based on ownership and management, not the losses. I can handle the losing. It's the not caring that truly sucks.
 
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