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What should happen to these high school football players?

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  • Heard about this on the radio. Apparently the play before two of their teammates were ejected from the game (they didnt make it clear if it was for beef with officials or for fighting with the other team or what the issue was).

    I dont know if i'd go as far as charging them with assault or a crime, but they definitely should not play high school sports again. And if the official suffered any injuries I have no problem with him suiing the families, or the school, for medical costs. Its a bummer the 2nd kid who came in and speared the official didnt injure himself.

    JSeahawks
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  • It's a crime but id hate to see cops involved. They won't play football again this season fairly certain. If the instructions came from the sideline then I imagine you're looking at shutting the program down for a year.

    Someone alleging to be the boys teammates posted on Deadspin the ref said something racist to the player ejected which led to the targeting. Story could be big
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  • should get charged with assault of some sort. They are juveniles so I don't imagine anything of consequence will happen.

    I'd like to see them get beat to within an inch of their lives but that's old school.
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  • They should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, and if it came from the coach he needs to be fired and prosecuted as well. It was clearly premeditated. That is aggravated assault.
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  • Tech Worlds wrote:should get charged with assault of some sort. They are juveniles so I don't imagine anything of consequence will happen.

    I'd like to see them get beat to within an inch of their lives but that's old school.


    It would be battery not assault...
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Tech Worlds wrote:should get charged with assault of some sort. They are juveniles so I don't imagine anything of consequence will happen.

    I'd like to see them get beat to within an inch of their lives but that's old school.


    It would be battery not assault...

    Whatever. I don't know the difference. All I know is those kids are lucky that guy didn't get up and beat them down. What they did was wrong and they need to be held accountable. That's the problem with this country. We don't hold people accountable for their actions.
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  • Charge them criminally. What they did was a crime, so why shouldn't the police be involved?
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  • I don't know, but I wish we had these players for Super Bowl XL.

    All kidding aside, these 2 players need to be heavily punished...but not so heavily punished that it really screws up their lives. So far, they've shown they can't contain themselves while playing a football game. That happens in sports, and more so at the high school level than college or pro. I say, don't let them play football anymore and make them be that referee's butler for 2 months.
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  • Definitely suspended from football, and school for me.

    I'd like to know if any coaches were involved with this.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Definitely suspended from football, and school for me.

    I'd like to know if any coaches were involved with this.


    Update from today: kids have been suspended from both indefinitely. Charges very real possibility. Doest sound like the coaches were involved
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  • If these kids attacked someone on the street like this they would probably still be in some kind of jail, it shouldn't matter that it was on the field because they attacked a guy who wasn't even playing and wasn't expecting to be hit.

    Ban them from playing high school football forever and charge them for attacking the guy.
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  • Uncalled for. Zebras are a big part of all sports, you can't let it be open season on them. There really has to be some sort of legal punishment.
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  • They should be charged to the full extent of the law. There are exceptions when playing sport that means you're allowed to hit hard but what they did is not a part of the sport, it's criminal and they deserve everything that can be thrown at them should the referee want to press charges.
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  • Lots of outrage in this thread.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:Lots of outrage in this thread.

    We live in an outrage culture now. It's the new "reality TV".

    These kids will never play football again. Any scholarship they might have earned is now history, so there's a chance they have cost themselves a college education.

    I think that is plenty of punishment for a teenager. Asking for more is disproportionate to the severity of the crime.

    This umpire wasn't seriously injured. But people seriously think the kids should be physically beaten to "within an inch" of death? WTF? What, did we suddenly become Syria?
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  • HansGruber wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Lots of outrage in this thread.

    We live in an outrage culture now. It's the new "reality TV".

    These kids will never play football again. Any scholarship they might have earned is now history, so there's a chance they have cost themselves a college education.

    I think that is plenty of punishment for a teenager. Asking for more is disproportionate to the severity of the crime.

    This umpire wasn't seriously injured. But people seriously think the kids should be physically beaten to "within an inch" of death? WTF? What, did we suddenly become Syria?


    I mostly agree. Coaching as much HS sports as I do I think suspension from the game for the season is plenty. Seen plenty of fights and aggressive behavior in games at this level and never thought the justice system needed to be brought in

    Edit: apparently one of the players managed to stay in the game after the initial hit of the ref due to mistaken identity (a teammate was egljected who wasn't involved). He subsequently was given a 15 yard late hit penalty on the next play. Jesus...
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  • They should really punish these kids. I mean really drop the hammer on them.

    So the best way to do that is force them to play at Washington/Washington State.

    But seriously I think they should be charged for assault. If you did this in public to someone, you'd be charged for assault. This was a premeditated attack on an innocent person. That's assault.
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  • Assault is the verbal threat of harm. Battery is the physical harm.

    What if the hit was against another player? It would be cowardly and absurd...but not battery.

    It's a fine line but I just think the emotional outrage in this is a bit over the top. Suspension from football and school seems like a very big punishment

    I can see the other side though.
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  • The boys committed an assault. They should be charged with battery. If the circumstances are appropriate, they could be charged with both assault and battery. I trust this will satisfy Si's legal sensibilities. :thirishdrinkers:
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  • Refs are not players and do not expect to be purposely blindsided. This is malicious and should be punishable by public caining.
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  • Tech Worlds wrote:Refs are not players and do not expect to be purposely blindsided. This is malicious and should be punishable by public caining.


    Agreed. They're also not padded or helmeted, and there are stories of unprotected individuals being seriously, seriously hurt in incidents like this. Fortunately, usually not in high school football.
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  • jkitsune wrote:The boys committed an assault. They should be charged with battery. If the circumstances are appropriate, they could be charged with both assault and battery. I trust this will satisfy Si's legal sensibilities. :thirishdrinkers:


    Youd only charge them with assault if the jurisdiction doesn't separate the two (common...but then youd charge them with assault even thoughtl they committed battert) or if they threatened him beforehand. Or if you don't actually know the difference...

    And Tech..I'm not suggesting refs are like players. But the act is similarly played out in many instances against the opposition without calls for criminal charges. So...if that's some qb standing there 10 seconds after a thrown and he's charged from behind, do we file criminal charges?

    The kids don't deserve to play HS sports again. Do we want legal jurisdiction to start involving itself when these kids act like idiots? I'd hesitate to agree to that.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    jkitsune wrote:The boys committed an assault. They should be charged with battery. If the circumstances are appropriate, they could be charged with both assault and battery. I trust this will satisfy Si's legal sensibilities. :thirishdrinkers:


    Youd only charge them with assault if the jurisdiction doesn't separate the two or if they threatened him beforehand. Or if you don't actually know the difference...

    And Tech..I'm not suggesting refs are like players. But the act is similarly played out in many instances against the opposition without calls for criminal charges. So...if that's some qb standing there 10 seconds after a thrown and he's charged from behind, do we file criminal charges?

    The kids don't deserve to play HS sports again. Do we want legal jurisdiction to start involving itself when these kids act like idiots? I'd hesitate to agree to that.

    Yes we do.

    Consequences stop stupid behavior.

    They are under 18 so it's not like they will have a criminal record forever. Kick their ass hard so that they have a chance at life. This situation calls for tough love.
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  • They should be given community service. Make them clean up the Oakland Coliseum for about a 6 month period. Raw sewage and all.
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  • Tech Worlds wrote:
    Consequences stop stupid behavior.


    No they don't.

    We have prisons filled to overflowing with petty criminals, and people still continue to commit petty crimes every day.

    Everyone in America knows you'll go to jail for DUI, beating your wife, stealing stuff, whatever. Hasn't stopped a single one of the people in jail for those things.
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  • HansGruber wrote:
    Tech Worlds wrote:
    Consequences stop stupid behavior.


    No they don't.

    We have prisons filled to overflowing with petty criminals, and people still continue to commit petty crimes every day.

    Everyone in America knows you'll go to jail for DUI, beating your wife, stealing stuff, whatever. Hasn't stopped a single one of the people in jail for those things.

    Then maybe the penalties should be stiffer.?

    If consequences are severe you will curb behavior.

    Steal something? Lose a hand.
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  • Tech Worlds wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    jkitsune wrote:The boys committed an assault. They should be charged with battery. If the circumstances are appropriate, they could be charged with both assault and battery. I trust this will satisfy Si's legal sensibilities. :thirishdrinkers:


    Youd only charge them with assault if the jurisdiction doesn't separate the two or if they threatened him beforehand. Or if you don't actually know the difference...

    And Tech..I'm not suggesting refs are like players. But the act is similarly played out in many instances against the opposition without calls for criminal charges. So...if that's some qb standing there 10 seconds after a thrown and he's charged from behind, do we file criminal charges?

    The kids don't deserve to play HS sports again. Do we want legal jurisdiction to start involving itself when these kids act like idiots? I'd hesitate to agree to that.

    Yes we do.

    Consequences stop stupid behavior.

    They are under 18 so it's not like they will have a criminal record forever. Kick their ass hard so that they have a chance at life. This situation calls for tough love.


    I dont disagree. I think losing football and being suspended from school is pretty massive.
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  • Tech Worlds wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:
    Tech Worlds wrote:
    Consequences stop stupid behavior.


    No they don't.

    We have prisons filled to overflowing with petty criminals, and people still continue to commit petty crimes every day.

    Everyone in America knows you'll go to jail for DUI, beating your wife, stealing stuff, whatever. Hasn't stopped a single one of the people in jail for those things.

    Then maybe the penalties should be stiffer.?

    If consequences are severe you will curb behavior.

    Steal something? Lose a hand.


    At what point then are we ruining more people's lives with harsh penalties than we are saving?

    I value the life of everyone. People are resources and all have the potential to contribute something positive for others....but the way we treat criminals is taking away that potential.
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  • fenderbender123 wrote:
    Tech Worlds wrote:
    HansGruber wrote:
    Tech Worlds wrote:
    Consequences stop stupid behavior.


    No they don't.

    We have prisons filled to overflowing with petty criminals, and people still continue to commit petty crimes every day.

    Everyone in America knows you'll go to jail for DUI, beating your wife, stealing stuff, whatever. Hasn't stopped a single one of the people in jail for those things.

    Then maybe the penalties should be stiffer.?

    If consequences are severe you will curb behavior.

    Steal something? Lose a hand.


    At what point then are we ruining more people's lives with harsh penalties than we are saving?

    I value the life of everyone. People are resources and all have the potential to contribute something positive for others....but the way we treat criminals is taking away that potential.

    I think if you cut off people's hands for stealing then there will a drastic reduction in stealing. You won't be ruining anyone else's lives. You'd be deterring the crime in the first place.
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  • Ok boys, we have our marching orders. Any offense, no matter how minor, is now punishable by death. Let's see how low we can get the crime rate!
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  • CodeWarrior wrote:Ok boys, we have our marching orders. Any offense, no matter how minor, is now punishable by death. Let's see how low we can get the crime rate!


    Hell, let's just lock everyone up in prison. That way, nobody can hurt each other. Crime rate reduced to 0%. Utopia.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Tech Worlds wrote:should get charged with assault of some sort. They are juveniles so I don't imagine anything of consequence will happen.

    I'd like to see them get beat to within an inch of their lives but that's old school.


    It would be battery not assault...


    "Texas
    Assault charges in Texas can range from a simple threat or argument, a fistfight or brawl, or a violent attack with a dangerous weapon.


    Under Texas law, you can be charged with assault resulting from an incident with no physical contact.

    Acts of Assault

    An act of assault can be one of three things:

    Intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causing bodily injury to another person.
    Intentionally or knowingly threatening someone with bodily injury.
    Intentionally or knowingly causing physical contact in a manner considered offensive or provocative."
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  • Uncle Si wrote:Assault is the verbal threat of harm. Battery is the physical harm.

    What if the hit was against another player? It would be cowardly and absurd...but not battery.

    It's a fine line but I just think the emotional outrage in this is a bit over the top. Suspension from football and school seems like a very big punishment

    I can see the other side though.


    I think that one of the things that makes civilized parts of the world, like most of Europe, US, Canada, etc is that we come down hard on this sort of thing...............so things don't go unchecked for decades eventually leading to refs being assaulted or killed in parking lots like other areas of the world.

    So while I agree, some people are overreacting, I'm fine with making an example out of these kids to the fullest extent so that we can try to restore some sanity to high school sports, and sports in general.
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  • DTexHawk wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Tech Worlds wrote:should get charged with assault of some sort. They are juveniles so I don't imagine anything of consequence will happen.

    I'd like to see them get beat to within an inch of their lives but that's old school.


    It would be battery not assault...


    "Texas
    Assault charges in Texas can range from a simple threat or argument, a fistfight or brawl, or a violent attack with a dangerous weapon.


    Under Texas law, you can be charged with assault resulting from an incident with no physical contact.

    Acts of Assault

    An act of assault can be one of three things:

    Intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly causing bodily injury to another person.
    Intentionally or knowingly threatening someone with bodily injury.
    Intentionally or knowingly causing physical contact in a manner considered offensive or provocative."



    As I said in an above post... some states don't separate the two any longer. But... battery is still the physical force of assault.

    That said.. what kind of press is this getting in Texas?
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  • I heard this morning on the radio............. that the kids are now saying it was retaliation because the ref used racial slurs against them.
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  • ZorntoLargent wrote:I heard this morning on the radio............. that the kids are now saying it was retaliation because the ref used racial slurs against them.



    I had read that the day after the incident went public as well. When the initial player was ejected (the play before the "attack") they players said the ref used a racial slur. Seems a bit too easy, but I guess we will see. I imagine more than just those two heard it, if it was said.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:

    As I said in an above post... some states don't separate the two any longer. But... battery is still the physical force of assault.

    That said.. what kind of press is this getting in Texas?



    I put a link in the Smack Shack that had some info.

    An asst. coach (who has been put on leave) supposedly said something to the effect; "we need to get back at him for cheating us". This would be a complete different reason than the "racist" claims.

    Kids are Hispanic but some are quick to judge saying the ref probably used the n word.

    Ref in a statement said he is considering pressing charges for assault as well as slander and libel.

    It's really amazing how an incident like this gets reported nationally with a 30-45 second commentary which includes only bits and pieces which causes a jump to conclusions that may or may not be correct. All the pieces need to be reviewed before a true judgement can be made.
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  • DTexHawk wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:

    As I said in an above post... some states don't separate the two any longer. But... battery is still the physical force of assault.

    That said.. what kind of press is this getting in Texas?



    I put a link in the Smack Shack that had some info.

    An asst. coach (who has been put on leave) supposedly said something to the effect; "we need to get back at him for cheating us". This would be a complete different reason than the "racist" claims.

    Kids are Hispanic but some are quick to judge saying the ref probably used the n word.

    Ref in a statement said he is considering pressing charges for assault as well as slander and libel.

    It's really amazing how an incident like this gets reported nationally with a 30-45 second commentary which includes only bits and pieces which causes a jump to conclusions that may or may not be correct. All the pieces need to be reviewed before a true judgement can be made.


    Not to be funny... but do you all have the internet in Texas?

    It looks as though the story will play out as most assumed when it first occurred. Players lost their heads. The involvement of the coach is another matter, and a sad one.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:Not to be funny... but do you all have the internet in Texas?

    It looks as though the story will play out as most assumed when it first occurred. Players lost their heads. The involvement of the coach is another matter, and a sad one.


    The internet is one of the worst about this. Sites want to be quick to post, but provide limited info and leave out much.

    Pmedic started the thread in the shack based on listening to ESPN, and they didn't give all the details, then he posts to the internet, makes assumptions, people run with those, and nobody has seen all the facts yet.

    Even the school district's statement was lacking because they didn't know all the details.

    Regardless, the coach should cut both players, the first one for the cheap shot, and the second player should be cut for being so slow in getting there and then for the cheap shot.
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  • DTexHawk wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Not to be funny... but do you all have the internet in Texas?

    It looks as though the story will play out as most assumed when it first occurred. Players lost their heads. The involvement of the coach is another matter, and a sad one.


    The internet is one of the worst about this. Sites want to be quick to post, but provide limited info and leave out much.

    Pmedic started the thread in the shack based on listening to ESPN, and they didn't give all the details, then he posts to the internet, makes assumptions, people run with those, and nobody has seen all the facts yet.

    Even the school district's statement was lacking because they didn't know all the details.

    Regardless, the coach should cut both players, the first one for the cheap shot, and the second player should be cut for being so slow in getting there and then for the cheap shot.



    The players are done, I imagine. Suspension from team and school regardless of racial slurs or not. The rest of the story will just be interesting to follow
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    DTexHawk wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Not to be funny... but do you all have the internet in Texas?

    It looks as though the story will play out as most assumed when it first occurred. Players lost their heads. The involvement of the coach is another matter, and a sad one.


    The internet is one of the worst about this. Sites want to be quick to post, but provide limited info and leave out much.

    Pmedic started the thread in the shack based on listening to ESPN, and they didn't give all the details, then he posts to the internet, makes assumptions, people run with those, and nobody has seen all the facts yet.

    Even the school district's statement was lacking because they didn't know all the details.

    Regardless, the coach should cut both players, the first one for the cheap shot, and the second player should be cut for being so slow in getting there and then for the cheap shot.



    The players are done, I imagine. Suspension from team and school regardless of racial slurs or not. The rest of the story will just be interesting to follow


    These guys surely won't be allowed to play again. Even if the umpire was a being racist, you have to be better than that. However, if your report has any semblance of truth there needs to be a proper investigation into the referee's character and conduct and decisions made about his future in the game as that is ultimately as big a concern, in my opinion. Unfortunately it would be near impossible to prove anything the umpire may have said so, in the event that he had said something offensive, he'll be able to carry on in a role he's not fit for. I'm obviously not saying that that is definitely what happened, it may well just be the best excuse the kids could come up with.
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  • http://www.wfaa.com/story/sports/dale-hansen/2015/09/08/hansen-unplugged-tackling-ref/71916866/

    "Now there have been reports that official had used some racial slurs, although I find that incredibly hard to believe. He's going to give up a part-time job he obviously likes because he doesn't like Hispanic kids? Maybe, but i doubt it.

    Another report says an assistant coach told them to do it. I find that a little hard to believe, too (but then a little more possible).


    It's part of the American culture in sports now; we have been teaching our kids for a long time that the men and women who referee our games aren't worthy of our respect. It's bad enough we yell at the ones who are among the very best at what they do... but then we scream at the ones who give up their free time to work a Little League game, too.

    And our kids have been watching."
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  • The racial excuse seems a little fishy considering the coach said we need to get this guy for screwing us all game. So on top of the actual attack they lied attempting to paint the ref as a racist which currently because of the tensions all over the country is a very dangerous thing to do. I hate saying it but if they did lie on top of the actual physical attack I don't feel all that bad for these guys for whatever punishment comes there way. If that was my son it would of been worse at home from my end. I would of been on the field immediately.

    IF a racial slur was used then I obviously change my stance, it just seems an unlikely coincidence with the coaches comments also on the table.
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  • Next time I do something stupid, which happens quite often, I'll just say that a racial slur was used.

    That way I not only will I nit be held accountable by the law, but I'll have the populous on my side as well.
    Tech Worlds
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  • austinslater25 wrote:The racial excuse seems a little fishy considering the coach said we need to get this guy for screwing us all game. So on top of the actual attack they lied attempting to paint the ref as a racist which currently because of the tensions all over the country is a very dangerous thing to do. I hate saying it but if they did lie on top of the actual physical attack I don't feel all that bad for these guys for whatever punishment comes there way. If that was my son it would of been worse at home from my end. I would of been on the field immediately.

    IF a racial slur was used then I obviously change my stance, it just seems an unlikely coincidence with the coaches comments also on the table.


    The racial comment should not excuse them from their actions. It would only make the referee culpable as well.
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  • This should absolutely be given to the authorities. This is an assault well outside the realm of the game.

    Racist remarks are no excuse for violence.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    austinslater25 wrote:The racial excuse seems a little fishy considering the coach said we need to get this guy for screwing us all game. So on top of the actual attack they lied attempting to paint the ref as a racist which currently because of the tensions all over the country is a very dangerous thing to do. I hate saying it but if they did lie on top of the actual physical attack I don't feel all that bad for these guys for whatever punishment comes there way. If that was my son it would of been worse at home from my end. I would of been on the field immediately.

    IF a racial slur was used then I obviously change my stance, it just seems an unlikely coincidence with the coaches comments also on the table.


    The racial comment should not excuse them from their actions. It would only make the referee culpable as well.



    I agree 100% IF he actually said what they claim he said, I'm just skeptical about it. It seems like an attempt to cover up what the assistant coach said when he told the players we need to get this guy for screwing us all game. So which one was it? That's what I'm struggling with.
    austinslater25
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  • Ref could've said a litany of racial slurs for all we know. You still can't go at him without expecting ramifications. If he did make the comments it just adds a layer to be investigated.
    Uncle Si
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  • Curious if this one will become major news. And just like Pacman Jones, he wasn't even ejected.

    253hawk
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  • 253hawk wrote:Curious if this one will become major news. And just like Pacman Jones, he wasn't even ejected.




    I don't see the issue here. He obviously felt remorseful about his hand accidentally getting caught in the opponents face mask which cause the helmet to come off of his head. The player then attempted to return the helmet to his opponent who was clearly not paying attention and missed the kind gesture. I think think this is obvious in that he put his hands up to say, "my bad for missing get that."
    CurryStopstheRuns
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