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Mariners OFF-season thread

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Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:33 pm
  • Which moves do you want seen made and other Seattle Mariners related stuff.
    Sports Hernia
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:08 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:Which moves do you want seen made and other Seattle Mariners related stuff.


    Raul Ibanez or Joey Cora as manager. No more retreads, and I think either one would energize the fanbase, and gladly keep Edgar on staff.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:13 pm
  • Maulbert wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:Which moves do you want seen made and other Seattle Mariners related stuff.


    Raul Ibanez or Joey Cora as manager. No more retreads, and I think either one would energize the fanbase, and gladly keep Edgar on staff.

    I don't want Cora, but I'd take Raul you are going by the "no retreads" route.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:05 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:Which moves do you want seen made and other Seattle Mariners related stuff.

    A change in ownership and Howard Lincoln dead. Hopefully burning in Hell. I'm done with the Mariners until then. Especially given I have a front row seat to seeing a team in the Mariners current position for 20+ years show EVERYONE how it's done if you actually care about winning over pure money and profit.

    Step one..get decent scouts....step two actually keep your good players like Adam Jones and Choo...step three rinse and repeat while letting your baseball people do their jobs like that team across the street....
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:52 am
  • get rid of every sub .250 hitter, bring in Bogar for manager, get more athletic all around, find good contact hitters, etc

    modern day baseball is about base hits and speed. Steroid era is over. The game has changed.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:00 am
  • Crizilla wrote:get rid of every sub .250 hitter, bring in Bogar for manager, get more athletic all around, find good contact hitters, etc

    modern day baseball is about base hits and speed. Steroid era is over. The game has changed.



    Like 70% of MLB players hit under .250, who do you suggest we sign after cutting these players?
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:59 am
  • MizzouHawkGal wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:Which moves do you want seen made and other Seattle Mariners related stuff.

    A change in ownership and Howard Lincoln dead. Hopefully burning in Hell. I'm done with the Mariners until then. Especially given I have a front row seat to seeing a team in the Mariners current position for 20+ years show EVERYONE how it's done if you actually care about winning over pure money and profit.

    Step one..get decent scouts....step two actually keep your good players like Adam Jones and Choo...step three rinse and repeat while letting your baseball people do their jobs like that team across the street....

    I share and understand your frustration. Lincoln is clearly the turd in the M's punchbowl.
    My problem is I'm a huge baseball fan.......... I like your solutions.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:03 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    MizzouHawkGal wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:Which moves do you want seen made and other Seattle Mariners related stuff.

    A change in ownership and Howard Lincoln dead. Hopefully burning in Hell. I'm done with the Mariners until then. Especially given I have a front row seat to seeing a team in the Mariners current position for 20+ years show EVERYONE how it's done if you actually care about winning over pure money and profit.

    Step one..get decent scouts....step two actually keep your good players like Adam Jones and Choo...step three rinse and repeat while letting your baseball people do their jobs like that team across the street....

    I share and understand your frustration. Lincoln is clearly the turd in the M's punchbowl.
    My problem is I'm a huge baseball fan.......... I like your solutions.

    In order to sustain that level of mediocrity over such an extended period of time, it has to go higher than manager/players.

    :229031_shrug:

    As a fan, though, it is really hard to give up on the team. :|
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:05 pm
  • They gave (allegedly) Dipoto full control on all baseball decisions. I'm okay with seeing if that holds true and what he can do with it. Let's see what he does and where it takes us.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:00 pm
  • If he is good about 5 years winning will happen, then Lincoln will not be able to stand it and want to take control and he will leave like Gillick.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:22 pm
  • Maulbert wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:Which moves do you want seen made and other Seattle Mariners related stuff.


    Raul Ibanez or Joey Cora as manager. No more retreads, and I think either one would energize the fanbase, and gladly keep Edgar on staff.


    I will never understand why people are so intent on hiring former Mariners, nor any particular reason to expect either would make a good manager except that they were both well-liked as players. Cora, at least, has coaching experience, and has not been a player for some time. You can be a 'retread' by being a familiar name hired almost entirely for nostalgia and feelgoods.

    I don't have a particular favorite managerial candidate, but I hope that the decision will be made based on their baseball philosophy and ability to work with DiPoto, not on whether they were likable players or connected to the M's franchise.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sun Oct 18, 2015 4:54 am
  • jkitsune wrote:
    Maulbert wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:Which moves do you want seen made and other Seattle Mariners related stuff.


    Raul Ibanez or Joey Cora as manager. No more retreads, and I think either one would energize the fanbase, and gladly keep Edgar on staff.


    I will never understand why people are so intent on hiring former Mariners, nor any particular reason to expect either would make a good manager except that they were both well-liked as players. Cora, at least, has coaching experience, and has not been a player for some time. You can be a 'retread' by being a familiar name hired almost entirely for nostalgia and feelgoods.

    I don't have a particular favorite managerial candidate, but I hope that the decision will be made based on their baseball philosophy and ability to work with DiPoto, not on whether they were likable players or connected to the M's franchise.

    I want whomever gives the team the best chance to win a World Series. If that is a former mariner or not doesn't matter to me.

    Winning cures everything.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:04 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:I want whomever gives the team the best chance to win a World Series. If that is a former mariner or not doesn't matter to me.

    Winning cures everything.


    Agreed. Being a former Mariner shouldn't matter one whit when hiring a manager. I haven't ever seen or heard anything to make me believe Raul Ibanez should be hired to manage a Major League team, other than that he was a popular player. The M's, perhaps moreso than nearly any other franchise, really need to bring new points of view into their organization.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:49 am
  • Call me crazy, but I think we need to address the rotation first. With Edgar's help we clearly saw a team-wide improvement at the plate during the 2nd half of the season, but our pitching faltered. Pitching also got worse late in the year in 2014 as well. Felix-Walker are a great 1, 2 punch. If we resign Kuma, great, but hopefully it is for a 1 year deal (I think he's lost a bit of his edge, with age). We cannot keep hoping Mr. Glass Paxton ever makes it out of April unscathed. We will see what Dipoto thinks of Hultzen/Elias. Will he target a free agent? I wouldn't mind acquiring the likes of Kazmir or better yet, Fister to help round out the rotation.

    OF & 1st base are priorities. Would anyone want to pickup Cano's contract? I wish.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:32 am
  • Hawker wrote:Call me crazy, but I think we need to address the rotation first. With Edgar's help we clearly saw a team-wide improvement at the plate during the 2nd half of the season, but our pitching faltered. Pitching also got worse late in the year in 2014 as well. Felix-Walker are a great 1, 2 punch. If we resign Kuma, great, but hopefully it is for a 1 year deal (I think he's lost a bit of his edge, with age). We cannot keep hoping Mr. Glass Paxton ever makes it out of April unscathed. We will see what Dipoto thinks of Hultzen/Elias. Will he target a free agent? I wouldn't mind acquiring the likes of Kazmir or better yet, Fister to help round out the rotation.

    OF & 1st base are priorities. Would anyone want to pickup Cano's contract? I wish.

    Really need bullpen help too. And no, no one's gonna pick up Cano's contract. That's an albatross that will hang over this franchise for what, seven more years?
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:54 pm
  • Crizilla wrote:get rid of every sub .250 hitter


    Could the Mariners even field a team then?

    :stirthepot:
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:20 am

Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:55 am
  • They are interviewing hitters above .250 ?

    He is a name, former Mariner, but I think he is unknown and Cheap to sign also. He has been tutored by the Red Sox which is good, at least a winning environment anyways.

    Thats just one though, I am sure we will see at least 10 potential candidates.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:32 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:They are interviewing hitters above .250 ?

    He is a name, former Mariner, but I think he is unknown and Cheap to sign also. He has been tutored by the Red Sox which is good, at least a winning environment anyways.

    Thats just one though, I am sure we will see at least 10 potential candidates.


    I wouldn't mind seeing Gardenhire get a look...
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:45 pm
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    Crizilla wrote:get rid of every sub .250 hitter


    Could the Mariners even field a team then?

    :stirthepot:


    Nope, and I doubt any other team could either. I highly doubt there is a single team in all of MLB that fielded a team that had every player hit .250 or better over the course of the season.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:56 pm
  • Address the catcher, shortstop and outfield. Sorry, but I can't take another season of watching Zunino hit .170. I'm not going to wait on Taylor and Miller, because last time I waited on our prospects....well you know how that goes. And we need to find a CF. Guti was a nice addition, but no way would I expect him to be an everyday player. I think Guti would serve as a good platoon guy.

    Address the bullpen and solidify the back end of the rotation. After Felix, Iwakuma (assuming we re-sign him) and Walker, what do we really have? This will be the prove it year for Walker.

    As for the managerial position....I'd like to see them hire someone who can get the players and fanbase excited. Please don't sign some no-name bench coach. No one got excited for Lloyd or Wedge. Dusty Baker anyone?
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:13 am
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:As for the managerial position....I'd like to see them hire someone who can get the players and fanbase excited. Please don't sign some no-name bench coach. No one got excited for Lloyd or Wedge. Dusty Baker anyone?

    Don Mattingly is available.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:29 pm
  • Former big-league catcher Scott Servais has emerged as the leading candidate to become the Mariners’ next manager, according to multiple reports.

    There has been no confirmation from the Mariners, but such a move would reunite Servais, 48, with general manager Jerry Dipoto.

    Servais currently works for the Los Angeles Angels as assistant general manager for scouting and player development. It was Dipoto, while serving as the Angels’ general manager, who hired Servais as an assistant in 2011.

    Fox Sports reported Servais as a "strong front-runner" for the Mariners’ managerial position. Shortly thereafter, MLB.com reported it was a "strong chance" that Servais would join the Mariners "probably" as manager.

    Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/ml ... rylink=cpy
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:25 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:They are interviewing hitters above .250 ?

    He is a name, former Mariner, but I think he is unknown and Cheap to sign also. He has been tutored by the Red Sox which is good, at least a winning environment anyways.

    Thats just one though, I am sure we will see at least 10 potential candidates.


    I wouldn't mind seeing Gardenhire get a look...

    The old Minne manager? If so then I agree.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:27 pm
  • KitsapGuy wrote:Former big-league catcher Scott Servais has emerged as the leading candidate to become the Mariners’ next manager, according to multiple reports.

    There has been no confirmation from the Mariners, but such a move would reunite Servais, 48, with general manager Jerry Dipoto.

    Servais currently works for the Los Angeles Angels as assistant general manager for scouting and player development. It was Dipoto, while serving as the Angels’ general manager, who hired Servais as an assistant in 2011.

    Fox Sports reported Servais as a "strong front-runner" for the Mariners’ managerial position. Shortly thereafter, MLB.com reported it was a "strong chance" that Servais would join the Mariners "probably" as manager.

    Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/ml ... rylink=cpy

    We haven't had very good luck with former catchers.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:02 am
  • It is time for Servais to lead us to the series.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:04 am
  • This is sooooo Mariners.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:59 am

Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:39 am
  • Tech Worlds wrote:This is sooooo Mariners.

    Sure feels that way, doesn't it? Hope we're wrong this time.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:55 pm
  • Color me NOT even close to enthused by this.. He has zero experience, besides playing.. #facepalm Ugh I hope im wrong but here's to another season or seasonS of suck. :(
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:07 pm
  • Not really enthused by this at all. It just feels like another new GM bringing in his guy, which we've seen many times. Hope this guy works out for us.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Oct 23, 2015 6:18 pm
  • Time will tell if this a good hire or not. A lot of folks thought Pete Carrol would crash and burn here too, 2 Super Bowls later.......... Maybe this guy and Dipito will be great or maybe they will fail. I am hoping for success, Seattle needs playoff baseball.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sun Oct 25, 2015 12:08 pm
  • Exittium wrote:Color me NOT even close to enthused by this.. He has zero experience, besides playing.. #facepalm Ugh I hope im wrong but here's to another season or seasonS of suck. :(


    Ehhh, I don't think experience is the most important thing when it comes to baseball. What are you gonna do, call a steal? Shift the infield and outfield every now and then? Just set a lineup and make a few calls. You have to be motivating and provide a little energy I think, and that's what the Mariners have been lacking. This isn't like football, where you have do actually do a whole lot. Or at least be the most experienced in order to have any success. I kind of like the move. We'll see what happens though.

    Oh and I think playing experience is worth a lot, actually.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:39 pm
  • nategreat wrote:
    Exittium wrote:Color me NOT even close to enthused by this.. He has zero experience, besides playing.. #facepalm Ugh I hope im wrong but here's to another season or seasonS of suck. :(


    Ehhh, I don't think experience is the most important thing when it comes to baseball. What are you gonna do, call a steal? Shift the infield and outfield every now and then? Just set a lineup and make a few calls. You have to be motivating and provide a little energy I think, and that's what the Mariners have been lacking. This isn't like football, where you have do actually do a whole lot. Or at least be the most experienced in order to have any success. I kind of like the move. We'll see what happens though.

    Oh and I think playing experience is worth a lot, actually.


    I agree wholeheartedly. One problem with baseball is that it's extremely difficult to accurately judge the contribution a manager makes to a team, particularly over only 1-2 years. Look at Lloyd - last year, he was the toast of the town. This year, not so much. It's based so much on simply placing your satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the team on the manager. Bob Melvin went on to be very successful after leaving the Mariners, but seemed like a terrible manager at the time.

    IMO, the most important thing a manager needs to be able to do is manage the personalities in the clubhouse and put the the best players on the field at the right time, and try to maximize everyone's strengths while minimize their weaknesses. I see no reason to believe Servais is unable to do that as compared to other managers. Not having managerial experience is a reason to question whether he will be able to manage personalities, but not knowing anything about Servais as a person, I don't have any real reason to doubt that he can. Having an experienced bench coach like Bogar should help, as well. And we've seen on the Hawks what an impact harmony within an organization can have on rebuilding a damaged culture, so I think that having someone he can work well with, who shares his philosophy, is imperative.

    I also don't see any reason whatsoever to be interested in Ron Gardenhire, and Dusty Baker is a fine manager but is nearing the tail end of his career, and is not necessarily the sort of manager you want to look at for a long-term answer. I'm perfectly fine with the hire - at the end of the day, all that anyone will judge Servais' performance on is the team's record, and it's debatable how much direct impact a manager has on that, unless they let the team devolve into infighting like in Washington.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:31 am
  • I was interested in his thoughts on making the team better.

    The main thing I was excited about hearing from him was hearing the team needed to get on base. His interests in walks to strikeouts ratio was rather intriguing. I am looking forward to seeing how his first year goes.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:09 am
  • Dipoto is a sabermetrics GM, and he needs a manager on board with the new. Somehow I have my doubts that Lloyd was a big "new" guy.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:24 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:Time will tell if this a good hire or not. A lot of folks thought Pete Carrol would crash and burn here too, 2 Super Bowls later.......... Maybe this guy and Dipito will be great or maybe they will fail. I am hoping for success, Seattle needs playoff baseball.


    Small difference between hiring one of the most successful college coaches ever and a guy that's never managed before.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:36 pm
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:Time will tell if this a good hire or not. A lot of folks thought Pete Carrol would crash and burn here too, 2 Super Bowls later.......... Maybe this guy and Dipito will be great or maybe they will fail. I am hoping for success, Seattle needs playoff baseball.


    Small difference between hiring one of the most successful college coaches ever and a guy that's never managed before.

    Maybe, maybe not.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:34 am
  • Dear Jerry Dipoto,
    Did you catch the World Series this year? I'm guessing you did being a baseball man and all. I know you know that the Kansas City Royals won the whole thing and have now won two pennants in a row as well. Are you aware that they play in a large park where home runs are tougher to come by than the average MLB stadium? Are you aware that because of this they built a team based on pitching, speed, defense and gap power rather than home run power? Are you aware the franchise you now run is in the same boat? I ask because your predecessor couldn't seem to grasp this fact. He seemed to think the team was playing in Camden Yards.

    If you do know these things, please act accordingly. If you don't, I'm sorry but you'll be looking for work like your predecessor here in about five years. As a long suffering Mariners fan, I sincerely hope you understand this stuff. All your advanced sabermetrics will be pointless if you don't start with and grasp the basics.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:38 am
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:Dear Jerry Dipoto,
    Did you catch the World Series this year? I'm guessing you did being a baseball man and all. I know you know that the Kansas City Royals won the whole thing and have now won two pennants in a row as well. Are you aware that they play in a large park where home runs are tougher to come by than the average MLB stadium? Are you aware that because of this they built a team based on pitching, speed, defense and gap power rather than home run power? Are you aware the franchise you now run is in the same boat? I ask because your predecessor couldn't seem to grasp this fact. He seemed to think the team was playing in Camden Yards.


    Agreed, but to be fair how many years did the Royals have top 5 draft picks LOADING their roster with talent? Like 10-15 years straight?

    Dipoto has said now a couple times that he wants to get more athletic in the outfield and focus on pitching and defense to cater to Safeco.

    But if we're handing out indictments on the Jack Z regime, it isn't philosophy, it's his failure at drafting and development, two things he was suppose to be a genius at.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:24 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:But if we're handing out indictments on the Jack Z regime, it isn't philosophy, it's his failure at drafting and development, two things he was suppose to be a genius at.


    It's really two fold IMO.. they drafted terribly yes, but they also made some very weird trades and overpaid incredibly in FA. When you greatly miss in those areas, you find yourself in baseball purgatory.. where you're not quite awful enough to reload with prospects like a Houston or KC did .. and you're not good enough to contend. You're consistently in that 75-80 win area and thats a bad place to be in MLB. It's like being the constant 5-8 seed in the Eastern Conference of the NBA.

    To truly fix this they're going to have to start selling off assets in the coming years, something that will be hard to do without ownership willing to bite the bullet on some salary (Felix, Cano, etc)
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:36 pm
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:But if we're handing out indictments on the Jack Z regime, it isn't philosophy, it's his failure at drafting and development, two things he was suppose to be a genius at.


    It's really two fold IMO.. they drafted terribly yes, but they also made some very weird trades and overpaid incredibly in FA. When you greatly miss in those areas, you find yourself in baseball purgatory.. where you're not quite awful enough to reload with prospects like a Houston or KC did .. and you're not good enough to contend. You're consistently in that 75-80 win area and thats a bad place to be in MLB. It's like being the constant 5-8 seed in the Eastern Conference of the NBA.

    To truly fix this they're going to have to start selling off assets in the coming years, something that will be hard to do without ownership willing to bite the bullet on some salary (Felix, Cano, etc)


    I disagree with the overpaid. Our two best offensive players we acquired in FA, and someone would have paid Cano and Cruz what we paid them, or close.

    Yes KC did it the right way, but you have to be patient and wait it out for the 5-10 years it takes for the players you draft and acquire to hit the majors. Jack Z had his 7 years, and produced garbage.

    I'm OK with having a bigger payroll so we can supplement our farm system players with FA's in order to round out the roster.

    But again, the failure of the Jack Z regime was not the FA's, that's money that he was given to spend..........and for the most part it worked with Cano, Cruz, etc. The failure was not drafting and developing around these guys in order to compete. Too many draft busts, too many managerial changes, too many key injuries to key prospects (Hultzen, Paxton can't stay healthy).
    Sgt. Largent
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:25 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:But if we're handing out indictments on the Jack Z regime, it isn't philosophy, it's his failure at drafting and development, two things he was suppose to be a genius at.


    It's really two fold IMO.. they drafted terribly yes, but they also made some very weird trades and overpaid incredibly in FA. When you greatly miss in those areas, you find yourself in baseball purgatory.. where you're not quite awful enough to reload with prospects like a Houston or KC did .. and you're not good enough to contend. You're consistently in that 75-80 win area and thats a bad place to be in MLB. It's like being the constant 5-8 seed in the Eastern Conference of the NBA.

    To truly fix this they're going to have to start selling off assets in the coming years, something that will be hard to do without ownership willing to bite the bullet on some salary (Felix, Cano, etc)


    I disagree with the overpaid. Our two best offensive players we acquired in FA, and someone would have paid Cano and Cruz what we paid them, or close.

    Yes KC did it the right way, but you have to be patient and wait it out for the 5-10 years it takes for the players you draft and acquire to hit the majors. Jack Z had his 7 years, and produced garbage.

    I'm OK with having a bigger payroll so we can supplement our farm system players with FA's in order to round out the roster.

    But again, the failure of the Jack Z regime was not the FA's, that's money that he was given to spend..........and for the most part it worked with Cano, Cruz, etc. The failure was not drafting and developing around these guys in order to compete. Too many draft busts, too many managerial changes, too many key injuries to key prospects (Hultzen, Paxton can't stay healthy).


    I think for the most part we agree.. but disagree about Cruz and Cano. Do you think the Mariners would have been that much worse without Cano?

    Cruz paid off for a year sure.. but there is 3 years left on that deal and he'll be 36 in July.

    Cano's deal is even worse. He's already showing signs of regression and you have him for 8 more years at 24M a year.

    I mean they're the Mariners so they will have to overpay to get these guys away from the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers of the world.. but like I said.. committing this type of salary to aging vets + whiffing on drafting and midseason trades to try and get over that .500 bump is what will perpetually leave the Mariners in the world of mediocrity.
    Hasselbeck
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:00 pm
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hasselbeck wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:But if we're handing out indictments on the Jack Z regime, it isn't philosophy, it's his failure at drafting and development, two things he was suppose to be a genius at.


    It's really two fold IMO.. they drafted terribly yes, but they also made some very weird trades and overpaid incredibly in FA. When you greatly miss in those areas, you find yourself in baseball purgatory.. where you're not quite awful enough to reload with prospects like a Houston or KC did .. and you're not good enough to contend. You're consistently in that 75-80 win area and thats a bad place to be in MLB. It's like being the constant 5-8 seed in the Eastern Conference of the NBA.

    To truly fix this they're going to have to start selling off assets in the coming years, something that will be hard to do without ownership willing to bite the bullet on some salary (Felix, Cano, etc)


    I disagree with the overpaid. Our two best offensive players we acquired in FA, and someone would have paid Cano and Cruz what we paid them, or close.

    Yes KC did it the right way, but you have to be patient and wait it out for the 5-10 years it takes for the players you draft and acquire to hit the majors. Jack Z had his 7 years, and produced garbage.

    I'm OK with having a bigger payroll so we can supplement our farm system players with FA's in order to round out the roster.

    But again, the failure of the Jack Z regime was not the FA's, that's money that he was given to spend..........and for the most part it worked with Cano, Cruz, etc. The failure was not drafting and developing around these guys in order to compete. Too many draft busts, too many managerial changes, too many key injuries to key prospects (Hultzen, Paxton can't stay healthy).


    I think for the most part we agree.. but disagree about Cruz and Cano. Do you think the Mariners would have been that much worse without Cano?

    Cruz paid off for a year sure.. but there is 3 years left on that deal and he'll be 36 in July.

    Cano's deal is even worse. He's already showing signs of regression and you have him for 8 more years at 24M a year.

    I mean they're the Mariners so they will have to overpay to get these guys away from the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers of the world.. but like I said.. committing this type of salary to aging vets + whiffing on drafting and midseason trades to try and get over that .500 bump is what will perpetually leave the Mariners in the world of mediocrity.


    36 years is the end of the peak of a player's career, so I'm cool with his contract. Cruz doesn't have a Cano-type of contract, which is nice. Dipoto's job is made easier with Cano, Cruz, Felix and Kyle locked up. These guys need a young manager with heart and energy to motivate them, and the M's will become a winning team, especially with Edgar returning next season.
    dumbrabbit
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:25 pm
  • nice :)

    2 sub .250 hitters gone

    C ya later NoMo and bad Miller!
    Crizilla
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:43 pm
  • Crizilla wrote:nice :)

    2 sub .250 hitters gone

    C ya later NoMo and bad Miller!


    On top of that we got a pretty solid starting pitcher in return. Starting pitching is something this team had to address. After Felix and Iwakuma we didn't have much.
    Hawk-Lock
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:44 pm
  • Crizilla wrote:nice :)

    2 sub .250 hitters gone

    C ya later NoMo and bad Miller!


    And a relief pitcher who had a 5+ ERA, almost double of what it was the year before.
    mbtitleist
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:40 pm
  • Karns is the main piece. He will solidify the back end of the rotation. We never really found a replacement for Chris Young. Hopefully he is it.
    Hawk-Lock
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:44 pm
  • I don't really care who we got in return for Miller, couldn't stand watching him kill rally after rally.
    bevellisthedevil
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:17 am
  • Boog Powell? Isn't be in the hall of fame already? :D
    m0ng0
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