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Mariners OFF-season thread

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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:04 am
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:No one thinks 10 year contracts are a good idea, but when you're the Seattle Mariners and you've stunk the past 10-12 years, it's the only way a player of Cano's skill is going to sign with you.

    So I get it, and I was OK with the signing, still am. Cano just needs a manager that knows how to motivate him.......cause Lloyd obviously wasn't doing it.


    I agree that a team like the Mariners has to overpay for talent, but a past your prime 2B that feasted in a hitter friendly park? To lock him up until age 42?

    Honestly trading him back to NY wouldn't be a bad thing.. they're the one team that could eat that contract. Only problem is they would want you to take back an equally s**t contract in Ellsbury.

    Look at the contenders right now though in MLB.. KC was largely built from within with a few key players acquired via FA and trade. Houston is entirely from prospects and a dusting of FA/trade acquired talent. The Mets are primarily prospects. The Cubs. And on and on. Then the flip side you have the Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees, Angels .. all the teams that have depleted farms and high payrolls. None of them have really won anything lately, save for a fluky title run by the Red Sox.. ironically fueled in large part due to a massive salary dump.

    The M's continue to be in baseball no mans land with some really horrendous contracts to aging vets and a very very iffy farm. They are almost better off bottoming out for a few years just to rack up high draft picks and sell off whatever decent veteran talent they have for prospects. It's kind of a terrible way to present it to your fans though.. the notion that "hey we're probably going to lose 100 games for the next couple of years, but keep on coming out!" .. but over the long haul I think it's the only way the M's ever become relevant.


    There's not a team in baseball that would trade for Robinson Cano.

    Not a one.

    The one and only way is if the Mariners would be willing to pay at least half his remaining salary, which is $96M. That's a lot of cash to pay for a team that is a middle of the pack on player payroll. A team would have to be pretty desperate to take on nearly $100M in salary for a very good, but probably no longer elite player who is getting older, has saw his power drop, and by most defensive metrics is now a below average second baseman defensively. Cano is not a very good asset to have right now, unless the injuries were real last season. I wouldn't put a bounce back season past him at all, to the tune of 4-5 WAR. Last season's 118 OPS+ was solid considering how he started out. All we can hope is that he ages extremely gracefully while probably being moved to 1B in the next couple of years. But that contract, man. That contract is looking worse by the day.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:06 am
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:No one thinks 10 year contracts are a good idea, but when you're the Seattle Mariners and you've stunk the past 10-12 years, it's the only way a player of Cano's skill is going to sign with you.

    So I get it, and I was OK with the signing, still am. Cano just needs a manager that knows how to motivate him.......cause Lloyd obviously wasn't doing it.


    I agree that a team like the Mariners has to overpay for talent, but a past your prime 2B that feasted in a hitter friendly park? To lock him up until age 42?

    Honestly trading him back to NY wouldn't be a bad thing.. they're the one team that could eat that contract. Only problem is they would want you to take back an equally s**t contract in Ellsbury.

    Look at the contenders right now though in MLB.. KC was largely built from within with a few key players acquired via FA and trade. Houston is entirely from prospects and a dusting of FA/trade acquired talent. The Mets are primarily prospects. The Cubs. And on and on. Then the flip side you have the Dodgers, Red Sox, Yankees, Angels .. all the teams that have depleted farms and high payrolls. None of them have really won anything lately, save for a fluky title run by the Red Sox.. ironically fueled in large part due to a massive salary dump.

    The M's continue to be in baseball no mans land with some really horrendous contracts to aging vets and a very very iffy farm. They are almost better off bottoming out for a few years just to rack up high draft picks and sell off whatever decent veteran talent they have for prospects. It's kind of a terrible way to present it to your fans though.. the notion that "hey we're probably going to lose 100 games for the next couple of years, but keep on coming out!" .. but over the long haul I think it's the only way the M's ever become relevant.


    Great post, though. Hopefully Dipoto cleans up in the draft in the coming years because that is what it's going to take. My biggest fear is that it's likely this window of Felix/Cano/Cruz/Seager window is likely going to be fruitless, and that's such a damn shame.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:08 am
  • CurryStopstheRuns wrote:
    CPHawk wrote:Should have traded him last summer, when we could have gotten something for him. Another stupid forced non move, by our ownership.


    Not necessarily. We should get an extra first round pick for him.


    Sandwich pick. 30 to 45, like where we grabbed Walker four years ago.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:12 am
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:Paxton is a legit MLB pitcher. When healthy, he can be a legit #3 SP with potential to be a #2. Elias IMO is more of a project, I think at best he is a #4/5 SP. Losing Smith hurts, I liked him but he did struggle in the second half. Either way I don't like the trade. Wade Miley has been a gas can for the last two seasons. Not sure what the M's see in him. Seems like another JA Happ to me. You know what you are getting with him with little to no upside. Bringing in Miley has the same feeling as when the Hawks brought in Cary Williams.

    This rotation could be one of the worst we've had in years....i hope I'm wrong though.


    Problem is he's never healthy. He's 27. He has looked amazing at times and pedestrian at others. Until he can stay healthy, he's not an asset and can't be counted on. Sucks, because he has the stuff to be a No. 2, like you said. The command issues will always pose some problems. When he's on, he's unhittable.

    Smith is tough to lose I guess, but relievers... I think you build your bullpen year to year unless you just have some absolutely amazing, proven arms. Looking at our current bullpen, Dipoto feels the same way.

    And, Miley... He pitched half his games in hitter friendly Fenway. It will likely be a different story in Safeco.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:08 pm
  • Having a good starting rotation impacts the bullpen. You can get by with a average bullpen if your starting pitching is performing well (meaning they are pushing into 6-8 innings). Wiley, although not a great pitcher, seems to eat up innings. That can help with the lack of relief pitching.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:02 am
  • Mariners now have a closer combo in Benoit and Cisek. They have added several arms to the farm system.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:14 am
  • Atradees wrote:Mariners now have a closer combo in Benoit and Cisek. They have added several arms to the farm system.


    No-ones mentioned the kid from Oakland...decent arm?
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:06 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Atradees wrote:Mariners now have a closer combo in Benoit and Cisek. They have added several arms to the farm system.


    No-ones mentioned the kid from Oakland...decent arm?
    Scribner had the highest strikeout to walk ratio in the bigs at one point.
    He is coming off a down year?
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:51 pm
  • Atradees wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Atradees wrote:Mariners now have a closer combo in Benoit and Cisek. They have added several arms to the farm system.


    No-ones mentioned the kid from Oakland...decent arm?
    Scribner had the highest strikeout to walk ratio in the bigs at one point.
    He is coming off a down year?


    64/4 K/BB ratio last year. He just gives up a lot of dingers. Should be good for us though.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:51 pm
  • Rob12 wrote:
    Atradees wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Atradees wrote:Mariners now have a closer combo in Benoit and Cisek. They have added several arms to the farm system.


    No-ones mentioned the kid from Oakland...decent arm?
    Scribner had the highest strikeout to walk ratio in the bigs at one point.
    He is coming off a down year?


    64/4 K/BB ratio last year. He just gives up a lot of dingers. Should be good for us though.

    Dipoto had mentioned because of our park he won't shy away from fly ball pitchers. I wonder if he saw Rodney in our park last year?
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Dec 12, 2015 5:04 pm
  • Subzero717 wrote:Dipoto had mentioned because of our park he won't shy away from fly ball pitchers. I wonder if he saw Rodney in our park last year?

    He said "pitchers" not "gas cans".
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:22 pm
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:Dipoto had mentioned because of our park he won't shy away from fly ball pitchers. I wonder if he saw Rodney in our park last year?

    He said "pitchers" not "gas cans".


    Rodney had 51 saves in 2014 and even though he was volatile last season still had 22 saves while with the M's. More than any other reliever the M's trotted out there last season.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:00 pm
  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:Dipoto had mentioned because of our park he won't shy away from fly ball pitchers. I wonder if he saw Rodney in our park last year?

    He said "pitchers" not "gas cans".


    Rodney had 51 saves in 2014 and even though he was volatile last season still had 22 saves while with the M's. More than any other reliever the M's trotted out there last season.

    Rodney was horrible last year.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:52 am
  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:Dipoto had mentioned because of our park he won't shy away from fly ball pitchers. I wonder if he saw Rodney in our park last year?

    He said "pitchers" not "gas cans".


    Rodney had 51 saves in 2014 and even though he was volatile last season still had 22 saves while with the M's. More than any other reliever the M's trotted out there last season.


    The save stat might very well be the most worthless stat in all of sports. Teams pitch their best relievers in 7th and 8th innings.

    Rodney was terrible last season.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:20 am
  • Rob12 wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:
    hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
    Subzero717 wrote:Dipoto had mentioned because of our park he won't shy away from fly ball pitchers. I wonder if he saw Rodney in our park last year?

    He said "pitchers" not "gas cans".


    Rodney had 51 saves in 2014 and even though he was volatile last season still had 22 saves while with the M's. More than any other reliever the M's trotted out there last season.


    The save stat might very well be the most worthless stat in all of sports. Teams pitch their best relievers in 7th and 8th innings.

    Rodney was terrible last season.


    I never said he wasn't terrible...he definitely was but the bullpen as a whole was abysmal last season. It wasn't just Rodney. Rodney still had more saves than anyone else on the team. Nobody stepped up to be the consistent closer to replace Rodney.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:47 pm
  • Sounds like Iwakuma is back on the market after a failed physical with the Dodgers.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:25 am
  • 1 yr. Deal with iwakuma
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:49 am
  • Felix/Iwakuma/Walker/Miley/Karns/Paxton/Nuno/Montgomery

    That's pretty solid for depth.

    Kuma coming back is HUGE for this team. Just praying he stays healthy. If he does, that has the makings of a way above average rotation - especially if Walker takes a big step forward and Paxton can not be made of glass. Karns is solid as well.

    It's really a three-year deal (one year, with vesting options in 2017 and 2018). Great deal for the M's.

    Vesting/Club Options

    A common variation on the club option contains vesting provisions that allow the option year to become guaranteed upon the fulfillment of certain milestones. Given the MLB’s constraints on permissible metrics for conditioning contracts, vesting provisions (like incentive clauses) generally rely upon accumulation of innings, games finished, or plate appearances rather than tying directly to performance.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:45 am
  • It's awesome that we got Iwakuma back.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:07 am
  • Rob12 wrote:Felix/Iwakuma/Walker/Miley/Karns/Paxton/Nuno/Montgomery

    That's pretty solid for depth.

    Kuma coming back is HUGE for this team. Just praying he stays healthy. If he does, that has the makings of a way above average rotation - especially if Walker takes a big step forward and Paxton can not be made of glass. Karns is solid as well.

    It's really a three-year deal (one year, with vesting options in 2017 and 2018). Great deal for the M's.

    Vesting/Club Options

    A common variation on the club option contains vesting provisions that allow the option year to become guaranteed upon the fulfillment of certain milestones. Given the MLB’s constraints on permissible metrics for conditioning contracts, vesting provisions (like incentive clauses) generally rely upon accumulation of innings, games finished, or plate appearances rather than tying directly to performance.


    Thats a playoff team rotation...

    Need an outfielder but the team is much better (on paper) than last year
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:33 am
  • Sounds good, but, isn't the only reason 'Kuma is available that he failed a physical?

    Hope it works out, but that sounds a bit ominous.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:30 am
  • sutz wrote:Sounds good, but, isn't the only reason 'Kuma is available that he failed a physical?

    Hope it works out, but that sounds a bit ominous.



    No word on that he failed. It may be that the Dodgers reviewed his health and felt he wasn't up to the contract they were offering. Surely Seattle knew his health condition when they offered him the initial contract that he passed on for the Dodgers.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:54 am
  • Getting Kuma back is a huge stroke of luck for the M's, particularly since we almost certainly will get him for cheaper than we initially offered him. As Si said, I'm sure the M's were aware of his health issues when they offered the initial contract. Different teams have different levels of comfort with different ailments, and we know Kuma isn't the most durable starter. The Dodgers offered 3 years guaranteed and probably didn't like that anymore - the Mariners basically have Kuma year-to-year for 3 years, based on durability, and are off the hook for him if he gets hurt again (although the details aren't fully out).

    As Si said, outfield is still relying really, really heavily on players having bounceback years, which doesn't make me terribly comfortable, and we're relying on the same for the bullpen, but otherwise the team has improved (I think). After last year, I'm not going to get too excited until it translates to wins, but there's reason to be hopeful if you're into it.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:24 pm
  • Getting Iwakuma back is a nice stroke of luck, though it picks at the scab of the Elias / Smith trade, a bad trade that was necessitated by the apparent loss of Iwakuma. Now Seattle is missing their best reliever and has one starter too many. The M's can move Paxton to the pen but that seems like a huge waste of his potential.

    But I guess not every GM can be perfect, and one bad panic induced trade aside, Dipoto has done enough to make the M's a legit darkhorse AL team in 2016. The Starting rotation is probably top 5 in baseball, the defense has a chance to be above average, and the lineup has just the right mix of OBP and power... that is if Nelson Cruz can keep hitting like an MVP-candidate for another year.

    The bad news is that other than the two closers Seattle brought in, I think our bullpen is going to be pretty bad. Also, a huge part of the team is well over 30 or playing on 1 year deals. So even if Seattle is good this year, the good times may be short lived.

    Jack failed as a GM but one thing I did like about him was that he was always keeping an eye on the future and relied on young players a great deal. Dipoto gives me more of a Pat Gillick vibe. Which in the short term is great. But in the long term, might lead to some lean years.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:30 pm
  • kearly wrote:Getting Iwakuma back is a nice stroke of luck, though it picks at the scab of the Elias / Smith trade, a bad trade that was necessitated by the apparent loss of Iwakuma. Now Seattle is missing their best reliever and has one starter too many. The M's can move Paxton to the pen but that seems like a huge waste of his potential.

    But I guess not every GM can be perfect, and one bad panic induced trade aside, Dipoto has done enough to make the M's a legit darkhorse AL team in 2016. The Starting rotation is probably top 5 in baseball, the defense has a chance to be above average, and the lineup has just the right mix of OBP and power... that is if Nelson Cruz can keep hitting like an MVP-candidate for another year.

    The bad news is that other than the two closers Seattle brought in, I think our bullpen is going to be pretty bad. Also, a huge part of the team is well over 30 or playing on 1 year deals. So even if Seattle is good this year, the good times may be short lived.

    Jack failed as a GM but one thing I did like about him was that he was always keeping an eye on the future and relied on young players a great deal. Dipoto gives me more of a Pat Gillick vibe. Which in the short term is great. But in the long term, might lead to some lean years.


    Where I can agree with you in you post, if we get any leaner we will be one of those Skeletons you see hanging in a doctors office as far as baseball is Seattle goes.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:23 pm
  • kearly wrote:Getting Iwakuma back is a nice stroke of luck, though it picks at the scab of the Elias / Smith trade, a bad trade that was necessitated by the apparent loss of Iwakuma. Now Seattle is missing their best reliever and has one starter too many. The M's can move Paxton to the pen but that seems like a huge waste of his potential.

    But I guess not every GM can be perfect, and one bad panic induced trade aside, Dipoto has done enough to make the M's a legit darkhorse AL team in 2016. The Starting rotation is probably top 5 in baseball, the defense has a chance to be above average, and the lineup has just the right mix of OBP and power... that is if Nelson Cruz can keep hitting like an MVP-candidate for another year.

    The bad news is that other than the two closers Seattle brought in, I think our bullpen is going to be pretty bad. Also, a huge part of the team is well over 30 or playing on 1 year deals. So even if Seattle is good this year, the good times may be short lived.

    Jack failed as a GM but one thing I did like about him was that he was always keeping an eye on the future and relied on young players a great deal. Dipoto gives me more of a Pat Gillick vibe. Which in the short term is great. But in the long term, might lead to some lean years.


    Respectfully disagree, Kip.

    You can never have too much starting pitching - especially when guys like Iwakuma and Paxton have missed significant chunks of time due to injury. We've seen teams across baseball that have lost one or two starters, and all the sudden, their rotation is razor thin and they're scrambling to find someone to plug the gap. I see starting pitching like offensive line depth in football - you can never have too much, because of the injury risks.

    The Miley trade wasn't my favorite, but it still makes sense. I think it's very wise to trade relievers at the height of their value. They are so volatile, and change so much from year to year. Farquhar was nails for us a couple seasons ago, but last year he got hit hard all season and bounced around between Tacoma and Seattle.

    I like the idea of Jack relying on young players, but when your organization can't develop them, you're only spinning your wheels and eating away at a young player's confidence (Zunino) when you don't properly have the organizational pieces in place to properly develop them. Then, they get rushed to the Show and fail miserably. Zunino is a very clear cautionary tale on Jack's flaw with young players. With Dipoto in place and some new blood in the managing ranks throughout the system, I am hoping that we can actually see some progress with our prospects. Last year was just about as bad as you'll ever see when looking at the numbers our hitting prospects put up. Peterson and Jackson, two high picks, struggled badly.

    The M's haven't produced an above average big league outfielder in 20+ years, and that's not an exaggeration. Aside from Kyle Seager and Brad Miller (somewhat), you'd be hard pressed to find another offensive prospect who has panned out for the M's. There's a laundry list of failed prospects, like Dustin Ackley, Mike Zunino (for now - I still have some hope), Jesus Montero, and plenty more. Hopefully Dipoto's regime can change that.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:06 pm
  • Rob12 wrote:
    kearly wrote:Getting Iwakuma back is a nice stroke of luck, though it picks at the scab of the Elias / Smith trade, a bad trade that was necessitated by the apparent loss of Iwakuma. Now Seattle is missing their best reliever and has one starter too many. The M's can move Paxton to the pen but that seems like a huge waste of his potential.

    But I guess not every GM can be perfect, and one bad panic induced trade aside, Dipoto has done enough to make the M's a legit darkhorse AL team in 2016. The Starting rotation is probably top 5 in baseball, the defense has a chance to be above average, and the lineup has just the right mix of OBP and power... that is if Nelson Cruz can keep hitting like an MVP-candidate for another year.

    The bad news is that other than the two closers Seattle brought in, I think our bullpen is going to be pretty bad. Also, a huge part of the team is well over 30 or playing on 1 year deals. So even if Seattle is good this year, the good times may be short lived.

    Jack failed as a GM but one thing I did like about him was that he was always keeping an eye on the future and relied on young players a great deal. Dipoto gives me more of a Pat Gillick vibe. Which in the short term is great. But in the long term, might lead to some lean years.


    Respectfully disagree, Kip.

    You can never have too much starting pitching - especially when guys like Iwakuma and Paxton have missed significant chunks of time due to injury. We've seen teams across baseball that have lost one or two starters, and all the sudden, their rotation is razor thin and they're scrambling to find someone to plug the gap. I see starting pitching like offensive line depth in football - you can never have too much, because of the injury risks.

    The Miley trade wasn't my favorite, but it still makes sense. I think it's very wise to trade relievers at the height of their value. They are so volatile, and change so much from year to year. Farquhar was nails for us a couple seasons ago, but last year he got hit hard all season and bounced around between Tacoma and Seattle.

    I like the idea of Jack relying on young players, but when your organization can't develop them, you're only spinning your wheels and eating away at a young player's confidence (Zunino) when you don't properly have the organizational pieces in place to properly develop them. Then, they get rushed to the Show and fail miserably. Zunino is a very clear cautionary tale on Jack's flaw with young players. With Dipoto in place and some new blood in the managing ranks throughout the system, I am hoping that we can actually see some progress with our prospects. Last year was just about as bad as you'll ever see when looking at the numbers our hitting prospects put up. Peterson and Jackson, two high picks, struggled badly.

    The M's haven't produced an above average big league outfielder in 20+ years, and that's not an exaggeration. Aside from Kyle Seager and Brad Miller (somewhat), you'd be hard pressed to find another offensive prospect who has panned out for the M's. There's a laundry list of failed prospects, like Dustin Ackley, Mike Zunino (for now - I still have some hope), Jesus Montero, and plenty more. Hopefully Dipoto's regime can change that.


    Adam Jones was a Mariner outfielder that is above average. Bavasi traded him away though.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:52 pm
  • Adam Jones was a Mariner outfielder that is above average. Bavasi traded him away though.


    True, though Jones was actually a shortstop when he was drafted, and didn't move to the outfield immediately.

    And even then, the team finally produced a legitimate top prospect, and traded him away.

    So, I guess it would be one outfielder in 20 years. And he got sent packing before he ever got the chance to make a legitimate impact for the Mariners.

    This franchise is infuriating.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sun Dec 20, 2015 2:53 am
  • So basically the M's got

    Miley
    Benoit
    Aro

    For

    Carson Smith
    Roenis Elias
    Nelson Ward
    Enyel De Los Santos
    13.2M to spend on a free agent(s) from Miley+Benoits salary


    Image


    Image
    Last edited by massari on Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:00 pm
  • I'm glad we were able to get Kuma back and help stabilize the rotation. We had a few nice additions and shed some pieces such as Trumbo to help restructure the roster. I hope that by sending Zunion down he can improve his offense. He was great at the plate in college, but his pro career has been stunted due to be rushed through the minors.
    babyblues
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:19 am
  • My thing about hitting...You either can or you can't when you get to the top level.It may take a year or two but after that you pretty much are who you are.I don't think MZ is going to be that much better hitting wise and it has nothing to do with being rushed.I wish all levels used wood bats,then we can get a better idea of ML hitters.That is if they can hit the breaking ball.
    IndyHawk
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:58 am
  • What I do like about the new GM is at least seems to have a plan. During the Z years it was speed then pitching and defense followed by power.

    This team seems to have real hitters that can hit at the top of the order , better speed and the outfield should be much improved. I think we will be at least competitive. The west has some good teams in it and it will be hard to get even to 3rd.
    Happypuppy
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Dec 26, 2015 1:08 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:My thing about hitting...You either can or you can't when you get to the top level.It may take a year or two but after that you pretty much are who you are.I don't think MZ is going to be that much better hitting wise and it has nothing to do with being rushed.I wish all levels used wood bats,then we can get a better idea of ML hitters.That is if they can hit the breaking ball.


    Studies have been done on this, and your more successful hitters in the bigs typically get 1,000 to 1,500 at bats in the minors. That's where pitch recognition is learned. Zunino got something like 300 at bats in the minors. His bat was plus when he was drafted. He was rushed. To see him come up and hit .180 and have a K rate of 35 percent is a direct indictment on how the former M's regime handled him.
    Rob12
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:14 pm
  • While I respect the principle that you either have or you don't when it comes to hitting in the bigs, there must be consideration given to have minor league at bats. MZ only saw 229 AAA plate appearances. In contrast, Buster Posey amassed 359 plate appearances at the AAA level. I'm optimistic about MZ and believe that with more AB's and instruction he as the potential to develop into a solid field general for the M's both offensively and defensively.
    babyblues
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sun Dec 27, 2015 11:48 am
  • How many MLB ab's has he had?I mean I understand what you 2 are pointing out but ab's in any level counts right?I hope I'm wrong but I've been watching baseball for a real long time and the list of lousy hitters goes way beyond those years.
    IndyHawk
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Sun Dec 27, 2015 12:11 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:How many MLB ab's has he had?I mean I understand what you 2 are pointing out but ab's in any level counts right?I hope I'm wrong but I've been watching baseball for a real long time and the list of lousy hitters goes way beyond those years.

    He's had a total of 548 plate appearances in the minors & fall league and 1055 in the majors.
    SeatownJay
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Control the Zone
Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:48 am
  • FWIW,
    The PR machine is cranking up.
    http://mynorthwest.com/374/2880439/Video-Mariners-aim-to-Control-the-Zone-in-2016
    While the week between Christmas and New Years is usually off time for Major League Baseball front offices, the Mariners put out a video tidbit, giving a little more insight into a message that has been promised since Jerry Dipoto's first day on the job. Development throughout the organization would be a top priority. Check it out above.

    Go M's,

    Go Hawks,
    BillA
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:08 pm
  • SeatownJay wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:How many MLB ab's has he had?I mean I understand what you 2 are pointing out but ab's in any level counts right?I hope I'm wrong but I've been watching baseball for a real long time and the list of lousy hitters goes way beyond those years.

    He's had a total of 548 plate appearances in the minors & fall league and 1055 in the majors.

    Thanks for the imfo,it was a lot more than I thought.I'm rooting for the guy but dang
    IndyHawk
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:46 am
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    SeatownJay wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:How many MLB ab's has he had?I mean I understand what you 2 are pointing out but ab's in any level counts right?I hope I'm wrong but I've been watching baseball for a real long time and the list of lousy hitters goes way beyond those years.

    He's had a total of 548 plate appearances in the minors & fall league and 1055 in the majors.

    Thanks for the imfo,it was a lot more than I thought.I'm rooting for the guy but dang


    "Dang" is right. Jack Z ruined Zunino. His ceiling at this point is a .225 or .250 hitter that can hit 20 bombs a season and play great defense. That's the ceiling, and that's valuable from the catcher position, but he could have been more. At the time of his promotion to Seattle, he had less than 400 MiLB at bats. That just doesn't cut it. He was rushed to appease a fan base that was tired of losing and losing without marquee players.

    You can't rush prospects. Baseball is a different beast. I believe it's something like 75 percent of first round picks will never sniff the Show. In a good organization, Zunino would be primed to be our catcher for the next seven to eight years. At this point, he's a wildcard, and Jerry has put the pressure on Edgar to fix him.

    Just a damn shame to waste another first round pick. He had the talent to be very good. He still does. But a lot of damage has been done. When you come up to Show and consistently get dominated, it's going to mess with your psyche as a ballplayer.
    Rob12
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Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Fri Jan 01, 2016 11:41 am
  • Rob12 wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:
    SeatownJay wrote:
    IndyHawk wrote:How many MLB ab's has he had?I mean I understand what you 2 are pointing out but ab's in any level counts right?I hope I'm wrong but I've been watching baseball for a real long time and the list of lousy hitters goes way beyond those years.

    He's had a total of 548 plate appearances in the minors & fall league and 1055 in the majors.

    Thanks for the imfo,it was a lot more than I thought.I'm rooting for the guy but dang


    "Dang" is right. Jack Z ruined Zunino. His ceiling at this point is a .225 or .250 hitter that can hit 20 bombs a season and play great defense. That's the ceiling, and that's valuable from the catcher position, but he could have been more. At the time of his promotion to Seattle, he had less than 400 MiLB at bats. That just doesn't cut it. He was rushed to appease a fan base that was tired of losing and losing without marquee players.

    You can't rush prospects. Baseball is a different beast. I believe it's something like 75 percent of first round picks will never sniff the Show. In a good organization, Zunino would be primed to be our catcher for the next seven to eight years. At this point, he's a wildcard, and Jerry has put the pressure on Edgar to fix him.

    Just a damn shame to waste another first round pick. He had the talent to be very good. He still does. But a lot of damage has been done. When you come up to Show and consistently get dominated, it's going to mess with your psyche as a ballplayer.


    I completely agree with your sentiments. Zunino was rushed into big league service without adequate MiLB time. While the issue of at bats is touched on, the position of catcher is one of the most difficult positions on the field. Its on thing to hit and play a position, but having to call a game is unique to every pitcher and each game. I'm hoping with the Mariner's off season signings that it will allow MZ to focus on his development.
    babyblues
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Mariners’ musings
Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:04 pm

Re: Mariners OFF-season thread
Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:43 pm
  • I'd encourage all to check out Divish's Notebook on the Times, and also check out Dutton's stuff on the Tribune.

    Divish posted a short video of Zunino in BP this morning on Twitter. Looks decent, the leg kick is a bit more pronounced and higher now, so we'll see. He's the one M that I really want to see bounce back. Show consistent contact in Tacoma, and maybe get a call in August/September to begin resurrecting an otherwise promising career. He's not super young anymore, so he still has time, but the clock on the reclamation project is ticking away.
    Rob12
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