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Golden State Warriors

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Re: Golden State Warriors
Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:52 am
  • hawkfan68 wrote:Here are some players off the top of my head from the 2007 Cavs team that went to the finals - IIgaukas, Gibson, Damon Jones, Drew Gooden, Shannon Brown but really that's not my point. Kobe took the Lakers to the finals...how did he help make those around him better? That's the point. I don't deny LBJ's star ability - He's the best player in the NBA. IMO, he just doesn't make those around him better.


    For his career - even with playing a bulk of his pre-Heat days with bums.. LeBron averages 7 assists per game. That roster you named that he took to the Finals wins 20 games without LeBron. That is the epitome of elevating your teammates.

    Kobe was a great player, but entirely different from LeBron in style. Kobe wanted to get his first, then have his role guys hit shots on the few opportunities they had. If you recall, those Laker teams after the Shaq trade and before the Gasol trade were not good.. and Kobe certainly didn't help elevate their game.

    crizilla wrote:Lebron is an insecure baby. At least Muhammed Ali backed up most of his "im the greatest talk" and handled himself more professionally. I hope Lebron and his fake hairline get swept by GS (just shave your head dude). I agree he doesn't make players around him better. I've been saying the same thing about Carmelo Anything too. Keep in mind Miami bailed him out pretty much (especially Ray Allen). He could easily have only 1 ring. That was a real team he played on in Miami. Lebron is a dominant force to the rim but he's just not a very good shooter. Both Kobe and Jordan > Lebron.

    This is the fist time in awhile i've actually talked about the snooze fest NBA. It's completely pointless up until the conference finals. Such an imbalanced league. There's only 2-3 teams with a legit shot to win the title each year. The decision to put advertisements on the jerseys just goes to show you how much the NBA has fallen.


    This take is all sorts of bad. For one, the Ali/LeBron thing is just ... weird. Ali played in an individual sport and talked far more trash than LeBron ever has. So that's a major reach there.

    And I'm cracking up at you comparing LeBron to Carmelo Anthony. They are literally nothing alike as players. This is a truly awful comparison.. and if you truly believe LeBron doesn't make his teammates better you're either 1) a blind hater of the guy 2) do not know basketball .. I'm sorry, but in the modern era of basketball, no one has done more with less than LeBron James. The Ray Allen bailing him out thing is a joke too, as Miami was down double digits in Game 6 and it was LeBron that brought the team all the way back. Even the great players need their teammates to knock down a big shot sometimes.



    The only time I truly believe LeBron "choked" was against the Mavericks. That Heat team had no business losing the title that year, and blew a couple of games in that series - in large part because LeBron just checked out.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:19 pm
  • Hasselbeck/Hawklock enjoy reading all the posts in here.I can't add much more but good job.I hope the Cavs can find a way to win it but as Throw said they need to attack.I feel that heart can go a long ways but you have to fight every minute and thats everyone on the Cavs not just Lebron..Defense Defense and more Defense!
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:03 pm
  • Love is probable for game 4. Big time decision for Lue. If Pete Carroll were coaching the Cavs I'd know what his decision would be. Most coaches won't bench a superstar though.

    On a side note, I'm kind of rooting for Cleveland too. Did anyone watch the 30 for 30, Believeland? As a sports fan from Seattle, I really feel for the fans of Cleveland. So much heartbreak.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:55 pm
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:Here are some players off the top of my head from the 2007 Cavs team that went to the finals - IIgaukas, Gibson, Damon Jones, Drew Gooden, Shannon Brown but really that's not my point. Kobe took the Lakers to the finals...how did he help make those around him better? That's the point. I don't deny LBJ's star ability - He's the best player in the NBA. IMO, he just doesn't make those around him better.


    For his career - even with playing a bulk of his pre-Heat days with bums.. LeBron averages 7 assists per game. That roster you named that he took to the Finals wins 20 games without LeBron. That is the epitome of elevating your teammates.

    Kobe was a great player, but entirely different from LeBron in style. Kobe wanted to get his first, then have his role guys hit shots on the few opportunities they had. If you recall, those Laker teams after the Shaq trade and before the Gasol trade were not good.. and Kobe certainly didn't help elevate their game.

    crizilla wrote:Lebron is an insecure baby. At least Muhammed Ali backed up most of his "im the greatest talk" and handled himself more professionally. I hope Lebron and his fake hairline get swept by GS (just shave your head dude). I agree he doesn't make players around him better. I've been saying the same thing about Carmelo Anything too. Keep in mind Miami bailed him out pretty much (especially Ray Allen). He could easily have only 1 ring. That was a real team he played on in Miami. Lebron is a dominant force to the rim but he's just not a very good shooter. Both Kobe and Jordan > Lebron.

    This is the fist time in awhile i've actually talked about the snooze fest NBA. It's completely pointless up until the conference finals. Such an imbalanced league. There's only 2-3 teams with a legit shot to win the title each year. The decision to put advertisements on the jerseys just goes to show you how much the NBA has fallen.


    This take is all sorts of bad. For one, the Ali/LeBron thing is just ... weird. Ali played in an individual sport and talked far more trash than LeBron ever has. So that's a major reach there.

    And I'm cracking up at you comparing LeBron to Carmelo Anthony. They are literally nothing alike as players. This is a truly awful comparison.. and if you truly believe LeBron doesn't make his teammates better you're either 1) a blind hater of the guy 2) do not know basketball .. I'm sorry, but in the modern era of basketball, no one has done more with less than LeBron James. The Ray Allen bailing him out thing is a joke too, as Miami was down double digits in Game 6 and it was LeBron that brought the team all the way back. Even the great players need their teammates to knock down a big shot sometimes.



    The only time I truly believe LeBron "choked" was against the Mavericks. That Heat team had no business losing the title that year, and blew a couple of games in that series - in large part because LeBron just checked out.


    Both Lebron and Ali have said that they are the greatest. The difference is Ali was more mature and respected. Lebron chose a terrible time to announce that he's the greatest, which was after a game 5 loss during last years finals. Rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Why at that time? Seemed selfish and almost as if hes throwing his teammates under the bus. You never saw Jordan or Kobe say that post game. That's weird. Then Lebron acts like a baby when Curry wins MVP. He even admitted that was a mistake responding like that. He lacks mental toughness. You're right that great players need teammates to contribute, look at Tom Brady. If Vinitari wasn't as clutch he could be down 2 rings. Throw in the game that shall not be named, and he could be minus 3 rings! But I think we can all agree Brady is a better leader than Lebron. He came back to Cleveland to lead the cavs to a title, to prove he doesn't need a Miami team loaded with proven veterans.


    LEL cavs fell apart in the 4th. Lebron can't inbound the ball and dribble down court and pull up for a shot. He has to drive to the rim or have it be passed to him if hes open to take a long shot. Lebron is so one dimensional
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:32 pm
  • Not a good night for LeBron and his legacy.

    He went into half up by 5 in what is essentially a must-win game, at home, and managed to lose....by double digits.

    And I will reiterate this once again, Tyronn Lue is clueless. He doesn't take timeouts when needed. Doesn't make adjustments. And the few times he does adjust, it is far too late. He went away from the small-ball lineup with Jefferson in the 4th quarter and it put them in a huge hole.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:07 pm
  • Curry was unreal.

    One game away now from history. What a season to behold. Gotta close it out strong.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:03 am
  • Image
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:39 am
  • Green will be out for game 5, dude is the biggest cheap shot artist since Laimbeer. To bad there no one like Barkley to deal with him, the way Sir Charles delt with Bill back in the day. Knocking his punk ass out.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:58 am
  • CPHawk wrote:Green will be out for game 5, dude is the biggest cheap shot artist since Laimbeer. To bad there no one like Barkley to deal with him, the way Sir Charles delt with Bill back in the day. Knocking his punk ass out.


    I'm trying to figure out how people are blaming that play on Green. Lebron was frustrated that they were losing. He swings his left arm and trips him to knock Green to the floor and then intentionally steps on top of Green's head to prevent him from getting up.

    Explain to me what I am missing about that play. I think Lebron is desperate and doing whatever he can to get into Green's head.

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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:09 am
  • hawknation2016 wrote:
    CPHawk wrote:Green will be out for game 5, dude is the biggest cheap shot artist since Laimbeer. To bad there no one like Barkley to deal with him, the way Sir Charles delt with Bill back in the day. Knocking his punk ass out.


    I'm trying to figure out how people are blaming that play on Green. Lebron was frustrated that they were losing. He swings his left arm and trips him to knock Green to the floor and then intentionally steps on top of Green's head to prevent him from getting up.

    Explain to me what I am missing about that play. I think Lebron is desperate and doing whatever he can to get into Green's head.


    Definitely seemed like Lebron was trying to get Green suspended.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:12 am
  • knownone wrote:
    hawknation2016 wrote:
    CPHawk wrote:Green will be out for game 5, dude is the biggest cheap shot artist since Laimbeer. To bad there no one like Barkley to deal with him, the way Sir Charles delt with Bill back in the day. Knocking his punk ass out.


    I'm trying to figure out how people are blaming that play on Green. Lebron was frustrated that they were losing. He swings his left arm and trips him to knock Green to the floor and then intentionally steps on top of Green's head to prevent him from getting up.

    Explain to me what I am missing about that play. I think Lebron is desperate and doing whatever he can to get into Green's head.


    Definitely seemed like Lebron was trying to get Green suspended.


    I don't blame Lebron either. If the rest of his team had his heart, they would be doing the same thing.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:58 am

Re: Golden State Warriors
Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:23 pm
  • Throwdown wrote:http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/06/draymond-green-lebron-james-altercation-game-4?utm_campaign=complexmag&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&sr_share=facebook

    Green should be suspended for that low blow


    Funny thing is Lebron did not appear to even notice the supposed "low blow" when asked about it after the game. He stepped on top of the dude's head while he was getting up. Honestly, straddling someone's neck is a lot more dangerous than anything Green has done.

    Again, I don't blame Lebron for trying to get Green suspended, anymore than I blame him for barking at Curry to try to intimidate him. Lebron is just trying to compete. But let's not ignore the reality that Lebron tripped Green to the floor and then walked over his head.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:40 pm
  • Hasselbeck wrote:Kobe was a great player, but entirely different from LeBron in style. Kobe wanted to get his first, then have his role guys hit shots on the few opportunities they had. If you recall, those Laker teams after the Shaq trade and before the Gasol trade were not good.. and Kobe certainly didn't help elevate their game.


    I think a lot of people (maybe not you) look at assist numbers and assume that means Lebron does more for his team or that Kobe only cares about getting his shots... Kobe played most of his career as the focal point of the triangle offense, Lebron plays in primarily isolation offenses, designed to get him space and allow him to essentially play point guard. The reason this is important, the triangle offense is by design, not going to lead to gaudy assist numbers, why? in the triangle offense Kobe has 2 passing options, he's not asked to go out and create chances like Lebron, he's asked to fill a role in a system designed around his abilities as a scorer, Kobe's job is to score and force teams to double team him in order to open up space for his shooters and big men. This is true for MJ as well, his assists weren't high because that's not how the triangle offense works.

    Also..
    The 04'-07' Lakers had less talent than any team Lebron James has ever been on. Outside of Odom those teams had virtually no one. Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Chris Mihm, all three were the 3rd leading scorer on those Lakers teams, 2 of them were out of the NBA after having career years as starters with the Lakers, Only Luke Walton managed to remain in the NBA as a bench player for the rest of his career.

    People like to contrast that to Lebron's first Finals run and to be honest... it's not fair to Kobe. That Cavs team had Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Sasha Pavlovic, obviously not a great lineup but it was flush with proven NBA talent, and it was during a time when the Eastern Conference had basically one good team the Pistons. Kobe happened to be in a stacked Western Conference, people forget that the Suns, Mavericks, and Spurs spent most of the gap between Shaq and Gasol, averaging 60+ wins a season. Meanwhile in the Eastern Conference every team outside of Detroit struggled to get 50 wins.

    Lebron does more little things to make his teams better, I don't think he make the players around him any better than Kobe, he just does so much that it masks a lot of his teams deficiencies.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:03 pm
  • CPHawk wrote:Green will be out for game 5, dude is the biggest cheap shot artist since Laimbeer. To bad there no one like Barkley to deal with him, the way Sir Charles delt with Bill back in the day. Knocking his punk ass out.


    Meh, I bet nothing happens to either guy.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:42 pm
  • It would be pretty funny if Lebron got suspended... then people can justifiably say he was a no show in the game.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:44 am
  • hawknation2016 wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:http://www.complex.com/sports/2016/06/draymond-green-lebron-james-altercation-game-4?utm_campaign=complexmag&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&sr_share=facebook

    Green should be suspended for that low blow


    Funny thing is Lebron did not appear to even notice the supposed "low blow" when asked about it after the game. He stepped on top of the dude's head while he was getting up. Honestly, straddling someone's neck is a lot more dangerous than anything Green has done.

    Again, I don't blame Lebron for trying to get Green suspended, anymore than I blame him for barking at Curry to try to intimidate him. Lebron is just trying to compete. But let's not ignore the reality that Lebron tripped Green to the floor and then walked over his head.

    Looked like Green had his arms all tangled into Lebron and when Lebrom moved his arm Green falls to the floor under Lebron.Lebron trys to go over and Green does his hand to the balls thing which is going to get him suspended for 1-2 games.The NBA makes more money the longer the games go and sure I bet they want to help Cleveland have a chance at winning.All this stuff is not fighting,watch the Pistons vs the Bulls in late 80's(The Jordan rules)this stuff today is a joke
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:25 am
  • Green suspended for game 5. NBA is officially a joke.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:46 pm
  • Cuz they suspended him for something he really did?
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:39 pm
  • There's plenty of other things he could have been called for in the playoffs; that little love tap to LeWhine's labia was nothing (and actually deserved for stepping over Green). The NBA desperately wants the series to go for more than just 5 games and rewarded the Cavs for a douche move by the biggest crybaby diva in the sports.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:32 am
  • Pretty surprised they actually suspended him, but it was warranted based on the points system.

    That said, don't think it matters. Series ends tonight IMO.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:03 am
  • I'm starting to dislike LeBron again. The pompousness is hard to take.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:58 pm
  • GSW should finish them off tonight, even without Green. I really feel for Cleveland, can't imagine what it would be like to be a sports fan from that city.

    If the Cavs want to get serious about winning a championship, they need to re-think their approach to winning. And if they are smart, they should center it around playing the Warriors. First off, get an actual coach. Lue is probably a bottom 3 coach in the NBA. I'm not trying to be mean, but he is in over his head. Second of all, they need to figure out the frontcourt. I think they are best off with James at the PF. When James won his championships with Miami, he played the PF and Bosh played Center. I feel bad for Love because he gets a lot of unwarranted hate. But I think he just doesn't quite fit the team, mainly from a defensive standpoint. At this point, I think most people agree they would have been better off keeping Wiggins. Could you imagine a starting lineup of Kyrie, JR, Wiggins, LeBron and Thompson? That team would matchup so well with GS. They should move either Love or Thompson and sign another wing who can help out LeBron and Kyrie. Because there is no way they are going to beat the Warriors in the future with Love and Thompson on the court.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:17 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:Could you imagine a starting lineup of Kyrie, JR, Wiggins, LeBron and Thompson? That team would matchup so well with GS. They should move either Love or Thompson and sign another wing who can help out LeBron and Kyrie. Because there is no way they are going to beat the Warriors in the future with Love and Thompson on the court.


    Agree that they need to move Love, but disagree Wiggins would change this series much. I think Wiggins would have had a harder time developing on a team with LeBron James. LeBron, to all his credit in his career, has never worked with rookies. Kyrie really is the youngest star he's ever played with, and there is still a pretty big disconnect between the two guys at times with the way Kyrie likes to go into ISO/Hero mode.

    The Warriors are just historically great. I think they would have thumped the 2013 Heat too. They're just better.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:11 pm
  • Hasselbeck wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:Could you imagine a starting lineup of Kyrie, JR, Wiggins, LeBron and Thompson? That team would matchup so well with GS. They should move either Love or Thompson and sign another wing who can help out LeBron and Kyrie. Because there is no way they are going to beat the Warriors in the future with Love and Thompson on the court.


    Agree that they need to move Love, but disagree Wiggins would change this series much. I think Wiggins would have had a harder time developing on a team with LeBron James. LeBron, to all his credit in his career, has never worked with rookies. Kyrie really is the youngest star he's ever played with, and there is still a pretty big disconnect between the two guys at times with the way Kyrie likes to go into ISO/Hero mode.

    The Warriors are just historically great. I think they would have thumped the 2013 Heat too. They're just better.


    Yeah it's hard to say how Wiggins would have progressed if he was on the Cavs. Championshp caliber teams never have much patience for a rookie, regardless of how good they are.

    I think the Warriors have built the blueprint for how to win. Obviously Steph and Klay are a big part of it, but the key is the mobile stretch 4, someone like Draymond. Put LeBron at the PF, and find someone who can play the SF. And yeah, jury is still out on if Kyrie and LeBron can play together. Lets be honest, Kyrie is basically a SG, but is forced to play the point because of his lack of height and body size.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:25 pm
  • That first half was pure action! Klay going off. And where was this LeBron all series?
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:34 pm
  • Lebron is working so hard, he's not gonna be able to sustain this pace, and without him Cleveland is done. If Cleveland can't get their role players or going, or Irving goes off and dominates the 3rd... it's over. Golden State repeat.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:39 pm
  • knownone wrote:Lebron is working so hard, he's not gonna be able to sustain this pace, and without him Cleveland is done. If Cleveland can't get their role players or going, or Irving goes off and dominates the 3rd... it's over. Golden State repeat.


    Cleveland ran out of gas in game 4, I think the same could happen tonight. I just don't see the Cavs being able to sustain this. Curious to see if Lue rests LeBron and Kyrie in the second half, I think it was a big mistake in the last game to not rest either in the second half.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:44 pm
  • Well looks like the NBA got what they wanted when they suspended Green. I honestly don't know what was worse, Golden State or the officiating.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:53 pm
  • On a good note, niners fans are crying tonight.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:24 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:On a good note, niners fans are crying tonight.


    On a bad note, I had CLE/GS OVER 209. They were at 205 total points with 5 minutes and 33 seconds left in the game. They managed to score 4 points in the last 5:33, and only 1 point in the last 3 and a half minutes. :cry:
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:13 am
  • knownone wrote:Well looks like the NBA got what they wanted when they suspended Green. I honestly don't know what was worse, Golden State or the officiating.


    The officiating was (and always is) worse. But it certainly didn't favor the Cavs like you imply.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:40 am
  • knownone wrote:Well looks like the NBA got what they wanted when they suspended Green. I honestly don't know what was worse, Golden State or the officiating.


    The officiating was fine. Near the end of the game the announcers even mentioned how well the game was officiated. As for the Green suspension, that is on him. He knew that he was one flagrant foul away from being suspended and he put himself in a vulnerable position. It's not like the league came out and suspended him, they gave him a flagrant foul which resulted in a suspension. Everyone is crying about LeBron, but the real story should be about how Green let him team down.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:16 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:
    knownone wrote:Well looks like the NBA got what they wanted when they suspended Green. I honestly don't know what was worse, Golden State or the officiating.


    The officiating was fine. Near the end of the game the announcers even mentioned how well the game was officiated. As for the Green suspension, that is on him. He knew that he was one flagrant foul away from being suspended and he put himself in a vulnerable position. It's not like the league came out and suspended him, they gave him a flagrant foul which resulted in a suspension. Everyone is crying about LeBron, but the real story should be about how Green let him team down.


    Reflexively extending your arm to push someone away who has just knocked you to the ground, and then straddled your head as you attempted to get up, would not be considered a "flagrant foul" under any other circumstance.

    The factors that influenced this decision:
    1. Lebron's petulant whining after the game.
    2. The unfair misperception that Green intentionally targets anyone's groin.
    3. The NBA's concern about not being perceived by the public as favoring the Warriors.
    4. The huge financial gains for the NBA if this series goes to seven games.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:39 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:On a good note, niners fans are crying tonight.


    On a bad note, I had CLE/GS OVER 209. They were at 205 total points with 5 minutes and 33 seconds left in the game. They managed to score 4 points in the last 5:33, and only 1 point in the last 3 and a half minutes. :cry:

    You need help :lol: Go Cavs! It's going 7..Anything can happen,I hope the loss of Bogut hurts more than they make it seem.I hope Green blows blows another gasket so he's out for game 7
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:03 pm
  • hawknation2016 wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:
    knownone wrote:Well looks like the NBA got what they wanted when they suspended Green. I honestly don't know what was worse, Golden State or the officiating.


    The officiating was fine. Near the end of the game the announcers even mentioned how well the game was officiated. As for the Green suspension, that is on him. He knew that he was one flagrant foul away from being suspended and he put himself in a vulnerable position. It's not like the league came out and suspended him, they gave him a flagrant foul which resulted in a suspension. Everyone is crying about LeBron, but the real story should be about how Green let him team down.


    Reflexively extending your arm to push someone away who has just knocked you to the ground, and then straddled your head as you attempted to get up, would not be considered a "flagrant foul" under any other circumstance.

    The factors that influenced this decision:
    1. Lebron's petulant whining after the game.
    2. The unfair misperception that Green intentionally targets anyone's groin.
    3. The NBA's concern about not being perceived by the public as favoring the Warriors.
    4. The huge financial gains for the NBA if this series goes to seven games.


    This is homer talk. Green got the flagrant because he flailed his right arm wildly as he was getting up and made contact with LeBron. There was nothing reflexive about the move. The actual hit was an accident, but intent is only a small factor in these determinations. Honestly, I think it's pretty unambiguously a flagrant 1. The hit is not nearly as bad as the Adams one (which was a flagrant 2), but it's still unnecessary contact. He might have gotten the benefit of the doubt (i.e., maybe it could be argued it was "reflexive"), but following the hit, he again flails his right arm in LeBron's direction (not necessarily trying to hit him, probably just gesturing in anger). So I think the league, in looking at that, saw a player who got angry and started gesturing vigorously in LeBron's direction, and as a result of that hit him by accident. That's a flagrant 1.

    This is all very clear in the video below.

    Also, the NBA may be marginally better off with a 7-game series rather than a 5-game series, but they're certainly not better off making the wrong call to benefit one team over another. If they didn't make the call, they'd clearly be favoring the Warriors, especially since Green already avoided suspension for the Adams hit. And let's not forget, the whole thing would be a non-issue if Green didn't regularly get himself assessed flagrant fouls. That doesn't make him a bad player or a bad guy. His aggressive and passionate play is part of what makes him great. But with players like Green, who frequently skirt the boundaries of acceptable on-court behavior, you have to take the good with the bad. LeBron clearly tried to get into his head (and probably should've gotten a technical for stepping over him), and he succeeded.

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Re: Golden State Warriors
Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:04 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:
    knownone wrote:Well looks like the NBA got what they wanted when they suspended Green. I honestly don't know what was worse, Golden State or the officiating.


    The officiating was fine. Near the end of the game the announcers even mentioned how well the game was officiated. As for the Green suspension, that is on him. He knew that he was one flagrant foul away from being suspended and he put himself in a vulnerable position. It's not like the league came out and suspended him, they gave him a flagrant foul which resulted in a suspension. Everyone is crying about LeBron, but the real story should be about how Green let him team down.

    I don't really have anything positive to say about Jeff Van Gundy and Mike Breen's views on officiating, the two of them contradict themselves every 10 minutes, one foul is obviously a flagrant, the next is clearly a flop, and both plays are identical to anyone with eyes except Van Gundy.
    I don't think the officiating favored either team, I do however think it was awful, plain and simple. The officials dictated the pace and flow of the game, and that made it virtually un-watchable at times. I don't mind officiating if the calls are consistent, but they weren't, that kills the enjoyment of the sport for me.

    I want Cleveland to win the series, I don't believe they are the better team, and I'm not blind to that fact. I don't think there is any way that's a flagrant on Green, plain and simple, it's hard for me to stand here and see anything but the NBA trying to extend the series. Especially when it's not obvious if there is intent, If they gave him a flagrant during the game I'd disagree, but I'd be fine with it. However, using slo-mo replay is not the best way to determine intent on f***ing basketball court, did the refs think it was a foul when it happened? no? ok, then let it go. Instead they retroactively give a flagrant for what is at the very worst a fringe flagrant foul, based solely on some nameless refs perception of another mans intent... it's stupid.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:24 pm
  • knownone wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:
    knownone wrote:Well looks like the NBA got what they wanted when they suspended Green. I honestly don't know what was worse, Golden State or the officiating.


    The officiating was fine. Near the end of the game the announcers even mentioned how well the game was officiated. As for the Green suspension, that is on him. He knew that he was one flagrant foul away from being suspended and he put himself in a vulnerable position. It's not like the league came out and suspended him, they gave him a flagrant foul which resulted in a suspension. Everyone is crying about LeBron, but the real story should be about how Green let him team down.


    I want Cleveland to win the series, I don't believe they are the better team, and I'm not blind to that fact. I don't think there is any way that's a flagrant on Green, plain and simple, it's hard for me to stand here and see anything but the NBA trying to extend the series. Especially when it's not obvious if there is intent, If they gave him a flagrant during the game I'd disagree, but I'd be fine with it. However, using slo-mo replay is not the best way to determine intent on f***ing basketball court, did the refs think it was a foul when it happened? no? ok, then let it go. Instead they retroactively give a flagrant for what is at the very worst a fringe flagrant foul, based solely on some nameless refs perception of another mans intent... it's stupid.


    Intent isn't necessary to get a flagrant 2, let alone a flagrant 1. Whether the striking player is deemed "reckless" is typically more important than whether or not he was doing it intentionally.

    The fact that the refs on the court didn't call it a flagrant is irrelevant. As you yourself stated, the officiating was awful. I think they probably just missed the hit to the groin, since there was so much more attention on what LeBron was doing before that. I didn't even notice it at the time, but I think the video I posted above makes it clear why the league felt compelled to call a flagrant.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:01 pm
  • Bottom line, if you TRY to hit a guy in his nuts, it's going to be a flagrant. Green is a dummy for doing so. He was well aware that he was one flagrant away from being suspended. He put himself in a vulnerable position for the league to call a flagrant on him. Whether it was actually flagrant or not, he put himself in a bad position.

    And I'm tired of hearing the Warrior fans whining about how the NBA suspended him to extend the series. First of all, if Green didn't already have so many flagrants and tech's in the playoffs, he would still be playing. Second of all, last year all I heard from Warrior fans was that it wouldn't have mattered if Love and Kyrie played in the finals. Suck it up, your team played without their 3rd best player for one game. The Cavs had to play without their 2nd and 3rd best player for basically the entire Finals last year.

    The NBA is rigged talk is pretty funny. Pretty much every radio show was talking about it today.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:14 pm
  • CPHawk wrote:Green will be out for game 5, dude is the biggest cheap shot artist since Laimbeer. To bad there no one like Barkley to deal with him, the way Sir Charles delt with Bill back in the day. Knocking his punk ass out.


    Ironic that on ESPN this morning they were playing clips of Barkley saying that Green was totally in the right.

    http://sfist.com/2016/06/13/warriors_draymond_green_banned_from.php
    "James then stepped over Green, prompting what appeared to be a shot at James's balls from the grounded man — an action that both got Green suspended from tonight's Game 5 and earned the praise of basketball legend Charles Barkley."
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:36 pm
  • Well I definitely underestimated the presence of Draymond Green in the Dubs lineup, the paint was more wide open for LeBron than a WR Cary Williams was covering.

    Also helped Kyrie Irving had the night of his life, Harrison Barnes couldn't hit water if he fell out a boat, and the Warriors as a whole missed 13 of their last 14 shots from 3 - most of which were uncontested shots.

    Wouldn't surprise me now if this series somehow gets to 7 games, but I still think at full strength the Warriors are just a much better team than the Cavs.. and short of another Kyrie/LeBron God Mode game.. I think the Dubs end the series on Thursday.

    P.S. Kevin Love really does suck. I don't know how Tyronn Lue continues to trot him out there over Channing Frye, I really don't.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:39 pm
  • IndyHawk wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:On a good note, niners fans are crying tonight.


    On a bad note, I had CLE/GS OVER 209. They were at 205 total points with 5 minutes and 33 seconds left in the game. They managed to score 4 points in the last 5:33, and only 1 point in the last 3 and a half minutes. :cry:

    You need help :lol: Go Cavs! It's going 7..Anything can happen,I hope the loss of Bogut hurts more than they make it seem.I hope Green blows blows another gasket so he's out for game 7


    Bogut is a warrior (figurative term, not literal :lol: ) .. but honestly the Warriors best lineup is their death lineup where Green is at the 5 and Iguodala plays the 4. Ezeli is pretty underrated so he can fill the void IMO.

    Losing Green for a game was a far bigger blow to the Warriors lineup than losing Bogut will be.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:50 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:Bottom line, if you TRY to hit a guy in his nuts, it's going to be a flagrant. Green is a dummy for doing so. He was well aware that he was one flagrant away from being suspended. He put himself in a vulnerable position for the league to call a flagrant on him. Whether it was actually flagrant or not, he put himself in a bad position.

    And I'm tired of hearing the Warrior fans whining about how the NBA suspended him to extend the series. First of all, if Green didn't already have so many flagrants and tech's in the playoffs, he would still be playing. Second of all, last year all I heard from Warrior fans was that it wouldn't have mattered if Love and Kyrie played in the finals. Suck it up, your team played without their 3rd best player for one game. The Cavs had to play without their 2nd and 3rd best player for basically the entire Finals last year.

    The NBA is rigged talk is pretty funny. Pretty much every radio show was talking about it today.


    Agreed - its similar to a personal foul in the NFL in that they rarely flag the instigator but they always get the guy that reacts. LeBron knew what he was doing by trying to get under his skin by stepping over him (an unwritten rule in basketball, similar to staring at a long home run in baseball). Draymond has to recognize the situation there and realize he's used up all his good faith from previous actions. Have to swallow some pride and just let him have that one then come back in Game 5 and take his championship away from him.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:50 am
  • Alexander wrote:
    knownone wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:
    knownone wrote:Well looks like the NBA got what they wanted when they suspended Green. I honestly don't know what was worse, Golden State or the officiating.


    The officiating was fine. Near the end of the game the announcers even mentioned how well the game was officiated. As for the Green suspension, that is on him. He knew that he was one flagrant foul away from being suspended and he put himself in a vulnerable position. It's not like the league came out and suspended him, they gave him a flagrant foul which resulted in a suspension. Everyone is crying about LeBron, but the real story should be about how Green let him team down.


    I want Cleveland to win the series, I don't believe they are the better team, and I'm not blind to that fact. I don't think there is any way that's a flagrant on Green, plain and simple, it's hard for me to stand here and see anything but the NBA trying to extend the series. Especially when it's not obvious if there is intent, If they gave him a flagrant during the game I'd disagree, but I'd be fine with it. However, using slo-mo replay is not the best way to determine intent on f***ing basketball court, did the refs think it was a foul when it happened? no? ok, then let it go. Instead they retroactively give a flagrant for what is at the very worst a fringe flagrant foul, based solely on some nameless refs perception of another mans intent... it's stupid.


    Intent isn't necessary to get a flagrant 2, let alone a flagrant 1. Whether the striking player is deemed "reckless" is typically more important than whether or not he was doing it intentionally.

    The fact that the refs on the court didn't call it a flagrant is irrelevant. As you yourself stated, the officiating was awful. I think they probably just missed the hit to the groin, since there was so much more attention on what LeBron was doing before that. I didn't even notice it at the time, but I think the video I posted above makes it clear why the league felt compelled to call a flagrant.

    You are wrong, the refs missed a lot of calls in the game yes, but the ref in this case is 5 feet away from the entire incident, he saw what happened. He talked to the other refs, they determined it wasn't a flagrant, the league after the fact using slo-mo says it is flagrant. The video you posted looks to me like Lebron taunts Green by stepping over him and Green tries to get up as soon as possible and accidently hits Lebron's groin. Is it a basketball play? Yes, Green is trying to stand up. Did he wind up and follow through? No. Did Lebron get injured? No. Did Green's actions start the altercation? No, Lebron did when he stepped over him. The only way you can call a flagrant on Green is if you think he intentionally swung for Lebron's groin. That's my issue with this, the Ref who was there on the court watching it in real time from 5 feet away doesn't think it's a flagrant, it's not a flagrant.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:42 am
  • Stepping over someone is a taunt, but you can't get physical in response which is exactly what happened. His reputation after the Steve Adams incident preceded him, it was the right thing.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:17 am
  • knownone wrote:
    Alexander wrote:Intent isn't necessary to get a flagrant 2, let alone a flagrant 1. Whether the striking player is deemed "reckless" is typically more important than whether or not he was doing it intentionally.

    The fact that the refs on the court didn't call it a flagrant is irrelevant. As you yourself stated, the officiating was awful. I think they probably just missed the hit to the groin, since there was so much more attention on what LeBron was doing before that. I didn't even notice it at the time, but I think the video I posted above makes it clear why the league felt compelled to call a flagrant.

    You are wrong, the refs missed a lot of calls in the game yes, but the ref in this case is 5 feet away from the entire incident, he saw what happened. He talked to the other refs, they determined it wasn't a flagrant, the league after the fact using slo-mo says it is flagrant. The video you posted looks to me like Lebron taunts Green by stepping over him and Green tries to get up as soon as possible and accidently hits Lebron's groin. Is it a basketball play? Yes, Green is trying to stand up. Did he wind up and follow through? No. Did Lebron get injured? No. Did Green's actions start the altercation? No, Lebron did when he stepped over him. The only way you can call a flagrant on Green is if you think he intentionally swung for Lebron's groin. That's my issue with this, the Ref who was there on the court watching it in real time from 5 feet away doesn't think it's a flagrant, it's not a flagrant.


    I may be wrong about what the ref did or did not see, but it's not relevant. The refs get it wrong sometimes. Even when the play is right in front of them. The question is whether, by rule, it's a flagrant. It clearly is. You keep emphasizing the "intent", but the rule makes it clear that intent is only one of many considerations. On the Steven Adams hit, Draymond got a flagrant 2 for what was pretty clearly an unintentional hit. His lack of intent didn't matter because of the severity of the hit and the recklessness that led to it. This incident is definitely not as bad as that one (hence why it's only a flagrant 1), but he still unnecessarily swings his right arm in LeBron's direction, twice, with the first swing making clear (if unintentional) contact. Him swinging that arm has nothing to do with him getting off the floor. If you look carefully, he's already on his feet (and LeBron is no longer over him) by the time that right arm comes out. Also, I don't know about anyone else, but my "get off the floor" motion doesn't involve swinging one of my arms wildly. I would imagine it's actually counterproductive to the goal of getting on your feet. I might have been inclined to give Green the benefit of the doubt, except that he immediately repeats the exact same motion, only without making contact.

    Also, what LeBron did is irrelevant. You can argue that LeBron should've gotten a technical (I'm surprised he didn't), that he was the instigator, or that he's a douche or whatever. But that doesn't change the fact that it was Draymond who swung his arm at LeBron and, intentional or not, made contact with him. You don't get a free flagrant foul just because the other guy is being a jerk. The question is whether the swinging right arm is a necessary motion. I don't think it is.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:42 am
  • ^^^Agreed with everything Alexander said. It doesn't matter if Draymond even hit his nuts or not, it was intent.

    Warrior fans can cry all they want, but last year all I heard from them was that it wouldn't have mattered if Kyrie and Love played. Draymond more than deserved this. He should have been suspended in the OKC series, so this was long overdue.

    But enough of the past, game 6 is tonight and it should be great. I'd be pretty shocked if LeBron let the Warriors hoist the trophy on their own floor two years in a row. This should go 7.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:51 am
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:^^^Agreed with everything Alexander said. It doesn't matter if Draymond even hit his nuts or not, it was intent.

    Warrior fans can cry all they want, but last year all I heard from them was that it wouldn't have mattered if Kyrie and Love played. Draymond more than deserved this. He should have been suspended in the OKC series, so this was long overdue.

    But enough of the past, game 6 is tonight and it should be great. I'd be pretty shocked if LeBron let the Warriors hoist the trophy on their own floor two years in a row. This should go 7.


    I'd like to see a game 7, but I really think the Warriors finish the job tonight. I think Cleveland will put up a worthy fight, but I couldn't help but notice how much more effective LeBron was in the paint with Green not playing. He won't have that advantage tonight. He'll need his jump shot to fall tonight, and the cast around him will need to show up, ala Kyrie in the last game. Might be a good time for Kevin Love to do something.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:02 am
  • The reflexive swiping of his arm was not "unnecessary" under the circumstances. Green had been knocked to the ground, stepped over while he was getting off the ground, and was being straddled by the head. Those were not hits or punches; it was mild reflexive swiping that Lebron did not appear to notice at the time.

    I would say calling that reflexive swiping a "flagrant" is emblematic of the current pussification of the NBA, but reflexive swiping would never be called a flagrant in just about any other situation. Hundreds of such plays occur every year without being levied a "flagrant" foul. Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

    This was about Lebron's whining, the viewing public's delusion, and the profit motive.
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Re: Golden State Warriors
Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:03 am
  • Alexander wrote:
    I'd like to see a game 7, but I really think the Warriors finish the job tonight.


    But only I am the one with the bias.

    :snack:
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