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Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread

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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:35 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:As someone who doesn't watch a lot of soccer, how do you feel about the championship being determined by a shootout? Doesn't seem like the best team should be crowned by a shootout.


    It's not the optimal way of ending a game, but the game went on for 120 minutes already. A winner has determined at some point.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:00 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:As someone who doesn't watch a lot of soccer, how do you feel about the championship being determined by a shootout? Doesn't seem like the best team should be crowned by a shootout.


    Fine. It still requires skills and nerve.

    When you lose a shoot out it sucks but sucks as much as losing any final 1-0.

    Only way I wouldnt have enjoyed it is if the refs ruined it and were so biased in our favor that it gave the media and other team an excuse for years. Even then meh, still won.

    I think we were playing for penalties the moment morris got taken off. Our game plan was to nullify torontos great offense with the crowd behind them in freezimg temperatures and we did, probably hoping one chance fell our way on a break. We did that brilliantly.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:51 am
  • Great game.

    Congrats to all you Sounders fans.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:32 am
  • After the match Saturday night, I was pondering what an insane impossible way this was to win a Cup, so very proud of my club and the effort it took to come all the way back in the standings after firing Sigi and Dempsey going down.............it's really the stuff that movies are of.

    Too much hyperbole? Don't care! Champions Bitches!




    As far as the shootout question goes, I saw a LOT of this on Twitter yesterday, non soccer fans and other club fans trying to lessen and throw shade on the Sounders because it was a shootout.

    That's nonsense to me, MOST sports have some sort of overtime tie breaking system. Whether it's hockey shootouts, football first to score TD's, college starting on the 25, etc.

    Do I wish it didn't come down to a shootout? Of course, but even the harshest critics have to admit shootouts makes for tension filled excitement and drama.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:56 am
  • Its an unconventional way to end a championship, regardless. Even hockey doesn't do the shootout in the playoffs. If you don't see shootouts often then you're probably not a fan of them.

    But the issue here is the game HAS to end, and because there is a sub limit in soccer there is no feasible way to have a good game played after 120 minutes (or even 90, really) there have been calls to add a 4th sub option to games and even ANOTHER sub in extra time. But change is slow (I think even the 3 man sub rule is only like 30 years old. It used to be no subs).

    If you're a Toronto fan you're probably a bit salty. Seattle game planned effectively to absorb pressure and try and counter. Toronto's effective high press gave them plenty of the ball high up the field. They just didn't do anything with their 19 (didn't seem like it was that much when watching) shots, despite limiting Seattle to just 3 (none on target).

    But that's soccer. You can't argue you were "better" if you go 120 minutes without scoring.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:02 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:After the match Saturday night, I was pondering what an insane impossible way this was to win a Cup, so very proud of my club and the effort it took to come all the way back in the standings after firing Sigi and Dempsey going down.............it's really the stuff that movies are of.

    Too much hyperbole? Don't care! Champions Bitches!




    As far as the shootout question goes, I saw a LOT of this on Twitter yesterday, non soccer fans and other club fans trying to lessen and throw shade on the Sounders because it was a shootout.

    That's nonsense to me, MOST sports have some sort of overtime tie breaking system. Whether it's hockey shootouts, football first to score TD's, college starting on the 25, etc.

    Do I wish it didn't come down to a shootout? Of course, but even the harshest critics have to admit shootouts makes for tension filled excitement and drama.


    I felt Dallas away in the regular season was the game I felt we could win it all. We lost that game but I felt we were unlucky and had some bad ref calls. Always felt there wasn't much between us and the team cruising at the top of the league and if we just made the play offs we could be formidable. Only time I had doubt was Portland away when we went 4-0 down, but even the second half performance gave me hope.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:12 am
  • Glasgow Seahawk wrote:
    I felt Dallas away in the regular season was the game I felt we could win it all. We lost that game but I felt we were unlucky and had some bad ref calls. Always felt there wasn't much between us and the team cruising at the top of the league and if we just made the play offs we could be formidable. Only time I had doubt was Portland away when we went 4-0 down, but even the second half performance gave me hope.


    You had far more faith than me, I thought we were dead in the water after Sigi got fired and Dempsey left.

    Schmetzer is the man, he rallied this club like a boss.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:03 am
  • Sounders with options declined: Anderson, Farfan, Friberg, Gomez, Ivanschitz, D. Jones, Lowe, Lyon, Mears, Ockford, Remick, Sturgis, Valdez
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:03 am
  • I'm still in shock. The entire run was unreal. Like Sgt, I too thought we were done for in July when they canned Sigi. I loved the Schmetzer hire, but I assumed we were playing for 2017 at that point. The fact that we are sitting here now as league champions is unbelievable.

    Stefan Frei's save, for my money, will go down in Seattle sports lore with Edgar's double and Sherman's tip. A simply unreal moment.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:13 am
  • Glasgow Seahawk wrote:Sounders with options declined: Anderson, Farfan, Friberg, Gomez, Ivanschitz, D. Jones, Lowe, Lyon, Mears, Ockford, Remick, Sturgis, Valdez


    Only one here I'm surprised is Mears. I thought he had a solid year, and for less than 200k is a bargain.

    Valdez was a great story, but no way in hell we were going to continue to pay him over 1M a year for that kind of goal production.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:18 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Glasgow Seahawk wrote:Sounders with options declined: Anderson, Farfan, Friberg, Gomez, Ivanschitz, D. Jones, Lowe, Lyon, Mears, Ockford, Remick, Sturgis, Valdez


    Only one here I'm surprised is Mears. I thought he had a solid year, and for less than 200k is a bargain.

    Valdez was a great story, but no way in hell we were going to continue to pay him over 1M a year for that kind of goal production.


    Gonna disagree on Mears, think he has been shaky at points and i've not been impressed with his crossing. His wife and kids still live in England so I can't see him doing another season abroad. Some of these guys might be brought back cheaper. I'd take Valdez back as a back up player if he is way cheaper and Ivanschitz. Excited about a DP spot being freed up.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:29 am
  • Glasgow Seahawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Glasgow Seahawk wrote:Sounders with options declined: Anderson, Farfan, Friberg, Gomez, Ivanschitz, D. Jones, Lowe, Lyon, Mears, Ockford, Remick, Sturgis, Valdez


    Only one here I'm surprised is Mears. I thought he had a solid year, and for less than 200k is a bargain.

    Valdez was a great story, but no way in hell we were going to continue to pay him over 1M a year for that kind of goal production.


    Gonna disagree on Mears, think he has been shaky at points and i've not been impressed with his crossing. His wife and kids still live in England so I can't see him doing another season abroad. Some of these guys might be brought back cheaper. I'd take Valdez back as a back up player if he is way cheaper and Ivanschitz. Excited about a DP spot being freed up.


    Hard to imagine Valdez would take that kind of pay cut unless there's literally no other interest for him. But yes a late game sub is probably where he should be at this point in his career.

    I know everyone loves Brad, but is it smart to keep paying him 300k+ a year to never make it through a season with missing major time with injuries?
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:26 pm
  • Sounders have announced their protected list for the upcoming expansion draft.

    Alfaro, Tony
    Alonso, Osvaldo
    Dempsey, Clint (DP)
    Evans, Brad
    Frei, Stefan
    Jones, Joevin (INT'L)
    Lodeiro, Nicolas (INT'L/DP)
    Marshall, Chad
    Miller, Tyler
    Roldan, Cristian
    Torres, Roman (INT'L)

    Automatically Protected:
    Jones, Darwin (HG)
    Kovar, Aaron (HG)
    Mansaray, Victor (HG)
    Morris, Jordan (HG)
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:32 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Glasgow Seahawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Glasgow Seahawk wrote:Sounders with options declined: Anderson, Farfan, Friberg, Gomez, Ivanschitz, D. Jones, Lowe, Lyon, Mears, Ockford, Remick, Sturgis, Valdez


    Only one here I'm surprised is Mears. I thought he had a solid year, and for less than 200k is a bargain.

    Valdez was a great story, but no way in hell we were going to continue to pay him over 1M a year for that kind of goal production.


    Gonna disagree on Mears, think he has been shaky at points and i've not been impressed with his crossing. His wife and kids still live in England so I can't see him doing another season abroad. Some of these guys might be brought back cheaper. I'd take Valdez back as a back up player if he is way cheaper and Ivanschitz. Excited about a DP spot being freed up.


    Hard to imagine Valdez would take that kind of pay cut unless there's literally no other interest for him. But yes a late game sub is probably where he should be at this point in his career.

    I know everyone loves Brad, but is it smart to keep paying him 300k+ a year to never make it through a season with missing major time with injuries?


    I have a feeling he goes wherever Sigi ends up. We possibly renewed him so we can get something for him in a trade off Sigi? Probably our starting RB next year if he stays and they draft a young RB to develop from college.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:09 pm
  • I prefer penalty kicks to sudden death. At least both teams get an equal shot and it still comes down to the skill of the players (and a little bit of luck.)
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:18 pm
  • Glasgow Seahawk wrote:
    I have a feeling he goes wherever Sigi ends up. We possibly renewed him so we can get something for him in a trade off Sigi? Probably our starting RB next year if he stays and they draft a young RB to develop from college.


    That seems a little risky to spend 300k hoping for a trade, unless the FO knows something we don't about Sigi being hired somewhere.

    IMO it's more about Evans being a utility player able to play multiple positions............and he's still one of the team leaders, which does mean something. Just think it's time to move on, as he can't go a full month without being hurt and missing major time. 300k is a lot in the MLS for a non starter.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:27 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Glasgow Seahawk wrote:
    I have a feeling he goes wherever Sigi ends up. We possibly renewed him so we can get something for him in a trade off Sigi? Probably our starting RB next year if he stays and they draft a young RB to develop from college.


    That seems a little risky to spend 300k hoping for a trade, unless the FO knows something we don't about Sigi being hired somewhere.

    IMO it's more about Evans being a utility player able to play multiple positions............and he's still one of the team leaders, which does mean something. Just think it's time to move on, as he can't go a full month without being hurt and missing major time. 300k is a lot in the MLS for a non starter.


    Ozzy had spells though when he couldn't stay healthy and got through it. Hopefully with a new season and preseason training Evans can get past it.

    300k is fine if he ends up being the starting RB. Probably the captain as well now Scott is gone.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:44 pm
  • Glasgow Seahawk wrote:
    300k is fine if he ends up being the starting RB. Probably the captain as well now Scott is gone.


    Really? RB?

    Evans is solid spot starter for RB, but as our everyday RB I don't think he has the legs anymore to get forward as much as Schmetzer like to attack on the wings.

    Seems like a young Yedlin type is more the type of RB we need to compliment Jone's speed on the left.

    Also if you didn't like Mear's crossing, Evans is no better, maybe even worse.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:59 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Glasgow Seahawk wrote:
    300k is fine if he ends up being the starting RB. Probably the captain as well now Scott is gone.


    Really? RB?

    Evans is solid spot starter for RB, but as our everyday RB I don't think he has the legs anymore to get forward as much as Schmetzer like to attack on the wings.

    Seems like a young Yedlin type is more the type of RB we need to compliment Jone's speed on the left.

    Also if you didn't like Mear's crossing, Evans is no better, maybe even worse.


    Good points. I think Evans is solid defensively. I'm wondering if they have him start at RB to start the season while they develop a future RB. Ultimately we need to pad the squad out with some quality if we want to make a CCL run so his experience may come handy here as well.

    Lots of big decisions ahead, especially if Mears, Ivanschitz, Friberg, Valdez etc don't take lower deals.

    Still excited to see what DP we bring in and if we do anything with the increased TAM.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:44 pm
  • I expect Evans to be a Sounder in 2017, and I expect him to be playing RB as our starter.

    I hear the concern that this will make us unbalanced as Evans doesn't have the speed that Jones has on the opposite flank, but I expect us to bring in a right footed outside Playmaker with our 3rd DP spot opened up with Valdez' option being declined. Sign a young DP for the right side of the field and he can cover for Evans lack of pace.


    I don't think we sign another DP forward, unless we move Dempsey.

    Our starting 11 next season is going to be pretty similar to this years squad, its the role players that will change the most. This is the year that TAM money will mean the most for this club, and boy do we have a lot of it.


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    Morris,
    Lodeiro, Dempsey, (New DP)
    Alonso, Roldan
    Jones, Marshall, Torres, Evans
    Frei
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:03 pm
  • The future, even just a few months from now, should not include Dempsey in the starting 11
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:22 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:The future, even just a few months from now, should not include Dempsey in the starting 11



    I agree with that. I just, assuming he's healthy, see that happening.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:28 am
  • So what's the state of the group heading into next year?

    If Valdez and Dempsey are moving on (which they probably should) who fills the #9 and #8 roles for the team? Morris move to Striker?

    Also, with Minnesota FC set to put their team together, who do you see getting pulled from the Sounders (I'm assuming there is an expansion draft?)
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:35 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:The future, even just a few months from now, should not include Dempsey in the starting 11


    Didn't protecting Dempsey yesterday tip the Sounder's hand that they expect him back next year?

    If Arena's already talking about getting Dempsey into the USMNT camp in January, I'd expect him to return to the Sounders at the end of January or early February when our camp opens.

    Only thing IMO that causes us to cut him loose is if before the first match in March he's still not medically cleared with continued issues. Cause once the season starts we're on the hook for his salary.

    Kinda like we did with Nkufo, when we cut him the day before the season started.

    As far as the 3rd DP slot, I want us to go after a true right winger, someone that can help Jones stretch the pitch on the right side to compliment Morris on the left. With Lodeiro and Ozzie in the middle that'd be a formidable attack with Dempsey up top.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:54 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:The future, even just a few months from now, should not include Dempsey in the starting 11


    Didn't protecting Dempsey yesterday tip the Sounder's hand that they expect him back next year?


    I didn't say he should not be back. I said he should not be in the starting 11...

    I could care less what Arena has planned for Dempsey. But if I had to garner a guess, he wants experience to get his squad back on the qualifying path. The next game is in March and its a must win.

    Those two situations are not synonymous with each other.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:00 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:The future, even just a few months from now, should not include Dempsey in the starting 11


    Didn't protecting Dempsey yesterday tip the Sounder's hand that they expect him back next year?


    I didn't say he should not be back. I said he should not be in the starting 11...

    I could care less what Arena has planned for Dempsey. But if I had to garner a guess, he wants experience to get his squad back on the qualifying path. The next game is in March and its a must win.

    Those two situations are not synonymous with each other.


    Well you certainly don't keep a 4.6M a year DP if he's not a starter.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:09 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:The future, even just a few months from now, should not include Dempsey in the starting 11


    Didn't protecting Dempsey yesterday tip the Sounder's hand that they expect him back next year?


    I didn't say he should not be back. I said he should not be in the starting 11...

    I could care less what Arena has planned for Dempsey. But if I had to garner a guess, he wants experience to get his squad back on the qualifying path. The next game is in March and its a must win.

    Those two situations are not synonymous with each other.


    Well you certainly don't keep a 4.6M a year DP if he's not a starter.


    You do in the MLS.

    Look, if the Sounders want to risk putting together a lineup that relies on a 33 soon to be 34 year old player on the decline of his abilities and coming off a heart condition whose very playing future is still in doubt, so be it.

    Seems a perfect time to move forward though. I'd say they protected him because of what he brings to the team off the field as much as on.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:17 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Well you certainly don't keep a 4.6M a year DP if he's not a starter.


    You do in the MLS.

    Look, if the Sounders want to risk putting together a lineup that relies on a 33 soon to be 34 year old player on the decline of his abilities and coming off a heart condition whose very playing future is still in doubt, so be it.

    Seems a perfect time to move forward though. I'd say they protected him because of what he brings to the team off the field as much as on.



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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:18 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    You do in the MLS.

    Look, if the Sounders want to risk putting together a lineup that relies on a 33 soon to be 34 year old player on the decline of his abilities and coming off a heart condition whose very playing future is still in doubt, so be it.

    Seems a perfect time to move forward though. I'd say they protected him because of what he brings to the team off the field as much as on.


    What roster in the MLS has their DP on the bench? No DP, especially one with as big of an ego as Dempsey is cool with rotting on the bench of an MLS club for the final years of his career.

    It's not prudent for either side, player or organization. The cap is limiting enough without wasting a DP spot and cap hit on a bench player.

    If Dempsey's here, he's starting. If he's not, it's because the Sounders brass wasn't comfortable with his health moving forward.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:24 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    You do in the MLS.

    Look, if the Sounders want to risk putting together a lineup that relies on a 33 soon to be 34 year old player on the decline of his abilities and coming off a heart condition whose very playing future is still in doubt, so be it.

    Seems a perfect time to move forward though. I'd say they protected him because of what he brings to the team off the field as much as on.


    What roster in the MLS has their DP on the bench? No DP, especially one with as big of an ego as Dempsey is cool with rotting on the bench of an MLS club for the final years of his career.

    It's not prudent for either side, player or organization. The cap is limiting enough without wasting a DP spot and cap hit on a bench player.

    If Dempsey's here, he's starting. If he's not, it's because the Sounders brass wasn't comfortable with his health moving forward.


    Gerrard started 18 games for the Galaxy last year. Robbie Keane started 16.

    Those are just two. It doesn't take much research to show what DP players were mainstays (played in more than 20 regular season games) in their club's lineups (look at Dallas) and which ones played far less time... and why (age)

    Injury to aging players is a real thing. You are taking a huge risk on a 33-36 year old player to start games all season.

    Tell me what's prudent. Tell me why LA did it here despite the talent already on that roster and why it would somehow not be similar to what Seattle has planned with Dempsey.

    DP players can bring a lot more to a roster than just influencing the game over an entire season. Some clubs still choose to go with those types of players, others are looking for something different (again, Dallas).
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:32 am
  • Seahawks1983 wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Well you certainly don't keep a 4.6M a year DP if he's not a starter.


    You do in the MLS.

    Look, if the Sounders want to risk putting together a lineup that relies on a 33 soon to be 34 year old player on the decline of his abilities and coming off a heart condition whose very playing future is still in doubt, so be it.

    Seems a perfect time to move forward though. I'd say they protected him because of what he brings to the team off the field as much as on.



    No, you don't.


    Well thought out and researched
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:35 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    You do in the MLS.

    Look, if the Sounders want to risk putting together a lineup that relies on a 33 soon to be 34 year old player on the decline of his abilities and coming off a heart condition whose very playing future is still in doubt, so be it.

    Seems a perfect time to move forward though. I'd say they protected him because of what he brings to the team off the field as much as on.


    What roster in the MLS has their DP on the bench? No DP, especially one with as big of an ego as Dempsey is cool with rotting on the bench of an MLS club for the final years of his career.

    It's not prudent for either side, player or organization. The cap is limiting enough without wasting a DP spot and cap hit on a bench player.

    If Dempsey's here, he's starting. If he's not, it's because the Sounders brass wasn't comfortable with his health moving forward.


    Gerrard started 18 games for the Galaxy last year. Robbie Keane started 16.

    Those are just two. It doesn't take much research to show what DP players were mainstays (played in more than 20 regular season games) in their club's lineups (look at Dallas) and which ones played far less time... and why (age)

    Injury to aging players is a real thing. You are taking a huge risk on a 33-36 year old player to start games all season.

    Tell me what's prudent. Tell me why LA did it here despite the talent already on that roster and why it would somehow not be similar to what Seattle has planned with Dempsey.

    DP players can bring a lot more to a roster than just influencing the game over an entire season. Some clubs still choose to go with those types of players, others are looking for something different (again, Dallas).


    Both Keane and Gerrard were dealing with major injuries. That's why they weren't starting as they normally would, and did in years prior.

    Also why neither is going to be playing for the Galaxy next year.

    So you're still not making sense. No MLS club actively goes into a season with a healthy DP with plans for him to ride the bench.

    I get you don't like Demspey on this club, that's a fair argument for moving on. But to keep saying you're OK with him sucking up 4.6M of salary and DP slot to be a sub? That's crazy talk in a super restrictive league like MLS...........and more importantly on a club like the Sounders that want three 90 minute DP's to help win trophies.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:50 am
  • Read through the DP list of MLS players. Tell me that those clubs don't foresee that players in their mid 30s won't be on the field for a good portion of their games. And, Dempsey is not "healthy"

    You telling me that I, with one google search, came to this information but these MLS clubs went into their seasons expecting these DP players to be a factor in the majority of their games? The clubs are all just coming to the realization now? Robbie Keane played in 23 of 34 MLS games in 2015. They still brought him back. That's barely 75%. Worth the investment in another year?

    No. They made the investment on aging super star players because even off the field they offer value. There is no way the Galaxy expected Gerrard to play a whole season as CM. Or Drogba. Or Kaka. Etc.

    (The outlier is Pirlo)

    And don't suppose you know why I'm making this point. I like Dempsey as a player. One of American's greatest. I'd like to see the league start changing its valuation of players away from guys who should be playing in "legends" games in major leagues across the world and start focusing more on bringing in real talent. Dallas and Chicago are doing that. I'm sure others (without looking much further). Point is, it appears as though many MLS teams target DP players with the assumption they will not be available (for whatever reason) for 1/4 of their season or more. The statistics on that list bare that.

    The Sounders have a chance here to upgrade their lineup. But, if they "rely" on Dempsey as a starter they will just be trying to fill his empty spot more often than not. I'm not "OK with him being on the roster"... it's not my team. My point is the MLS doesn't always invest its money in players wholly on game production.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:02 am
  • Lol, I've notice you get very defensive Si when discussing soccer. So feisty!

    Here's the list of DP's, not one was signed or kept on the roster to be a permanent late game sub.

    http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/d ... ed-players

    If those players fell into that role, like our very own Nelson Valdez did this year? It's because of nagging or serious injuries that kept that player from being a 70-80 minute player............and again those players like Valdez, are gone from those rosters cause you can't use up valuable DP slots on a 20 minute a match player.

    Now maybe Dempsey starts the season as a late game sub working his way back into the starting 11? That's a possibility. But ain't no way in hell he or the club is OK with going another year or two with that being his permanent role.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:17 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Lol, I've notice you get very defensive Si when discussing soccer. So feisty!

    Here's the list of DP's, not one was signed or kept on the roster to be a permanent late game sub.

    http://pressbox.mlssoccer.com/content/d ... ed-players

    If those players fell into that role, like our very own Nelson Valdez did this year? It's because of nagging or serious injuries that kept that player from being a 70-80 minute player............and again those players like Valdez, are gone from those rosters cause you can't use up valuable DP slots on a 20 minute a match player.

    Now maybe Dempsey starts the season as a late game sub working his way back into the starting 11? That's a possibility. But ain't no way in hell he or the club is OK with going another year or two with that being his permanent role.


    Not feisty or defensive at all.... trust me. I love talking about the game. I just feel like you're missing a pretty simple point or skipping over it for reasons I don't really understand. I notice you do it alot, really.

    That list of players shows how unreliable players over the age of 30 were to their teams, which is the point. Guys in their 30s get nagging injuries. You're telling me that all those MLS clubs just hoped those players would come through without issue... but only Pirlo did? So, either this is a very, very new realization and the league is just becoming aware of it (older guys get hurt)... or those clubs took that risk on those older players knowing full well that their impact on the field would not be over the course of the entire season. Or... just go look at the list of DP players from 2015, see how many were over 30, how many games they played. It's not rocket science.

    I'm not sure why you are struggling to see this. It's pure business and has been a part of the MLS for some time now. MLS teams certainly do invest big money on big named players understanding they are taking a major risk with their play on the field but see value in their name off it. The MLS operates very differently than other major leagues in this way.

    So... if Dempsey is back with the Sounders next year and they expect him to play 30 of 34 matches that would simply be naive and detrimental to the club. He only played in 20 games in 2015.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:26 am
  • The entire crux of this discussion Si was you saying if we keep Dempsey, he shouldn't be in the starting 11.

    So maybe I'm confused as to what you meant by that. If you meant that means he and the Sounders are just fine with him being a late game sub for the rest of his career like Valdez did most of the year? You're dead wrong, neither side would be OK with that.

    If you meant what I said above, that Dempsey shouldn't be in the starting 11 until he's healthy and fit enough to start? Then I agree with you, and that's a very real possibility.

    But any long term scenario where Dempsey is on this club for the sole purpose of spot starting and coming on late as some sort of super sub, and taking up a DP slot? Not happening.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:33 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:The entire crux of this discussion Si was you saying if we keep Dempsey, he shouldn't be in the starting 11.

    So maybe I'm confused as to what you meant by that. If you meant that means he and the Sounders are just fine with him being a late game sub for the rest of his career like Valdez did most of the year? You're dead wrong, neither side would be OK with that.

    If you meant what I said above, that Dempsey shouldn't be in the starting 11 until he's healthy and fit enough to start? Then I agree with you, and that's a very real possibility.

    But any long term scenario where Dempsey is on this club for the sole purpose of spot starting and coming on late as some sort of super sub, and taking up a DP slot? Not happening.


    I'm not speaking for what the Sounders would do. This is my opinion on what they should do. What I am saying is that the Sounders should not bring Dempsey back and rely on him to be in the starting 11. As the list you linked, and his last two years with the Sounders both indicate, its a major risk. Would he start some games? Sure. Does that mean they cut him? No, of course not. It means you go and find the player that will make the impact for your team in that position. Again, I like what Dallas did with their DP slots. I'd love to see Seattle do something similar. You can invest in Dempsey the player/marketing icon and still invest in great young talent.

    If Seattle has decided to bring Dempsey back and expect more than 20 games from him I would say they are taking a massive risk that ignores basic trends.

    And really, I wouldn't care if I'm a Sounders fan. If they want to spend DP money on one of not only Seattle's but America's best players ever than awesome. I'd buy a jersey. But if they don't find a real #11/8/9 to pair with Lodeiro and Morris and hope its Dempsey throughout the season I'd say that's mistake.

    I hope this makes sense. The MLS operates on two levels when it comes to player valuation.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:59 am
  • I gotcha, and I tend to agree.

    But we now have an open DP slot with Valdez gone. So I think what's going to happen is as long as Dempsey is cleared by January or February to start training then we give him another year to get right and get back on the pitch.

    Without that DP slot, I think we'd move on because it's too valuable to spend on an unknown like Dempsey.

    As we saw this year, this club can still compete without him, especially with another DP coming in here and hopefully contributing far more than Valdez did.

    So there's no need to be rash with Dempsey, if he's cleared, let him prove he can still play.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:03 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I gotcha, and I tend to agree.

    But we now have an open DP slot with Valdez gone. So I think what's going to happen is as long as Dempsey is cleared by January or February to start training then we give him another year to get right and get back on the pitch.

    Without that DP slot, I think we'd move on because it's too valuable to spend on an unknown like Dempsey.

    As we saw this year, this club can still compete without him, especially with another DP coming in here and hopefully contributing far more than Valdez did.

    So there's no need to be rash with Dempsey, if he's cleared, let him prove he can still play.


    This is going in my signature line...

    None of what I'm saying was a dig on Dempsey. Personally, I would not rely on Dempsey for a major role on the team and actively try and find a player much like him but much younger (the 25 year old Dempsey). But I also don't think that means you let him go. Look no further than Drogba's impact this year. I think he started less than 20 games for Montreal.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:06 am
  • Sounders rally is live right now, click on the watch live banner if you wanna watch

    http://www.king5.com/
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:16 pm
  • Seattle had no player taken in the expansion draft.
    Image

    2014 Adopt-A-Rookie: Kiero Small
    2015 Adopt-A-Rookie: Tyler Lockett
    2016 Adopt-A-Rookie: Joey Hunt
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:24 pm
  • SeatownJay wrote:Seattle had no player taken in the expansion draft.


    Do you have a link to the draft?
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:13 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    SeatownJay wrote:Seattle had no player taken in the expansion draft.


    Do you have a link to the draft?

    http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/12/1 ... ay-2-pm-et
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    2015 Adopt-A-Rookie: Tyler Lockett
    2016 Adopt-A-Rookie: Joey Hunt
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:37 pm
  • Tyrone Mears, Kovar and Fisher weren't at the parade.

    Kovar is on trial in Scotland with Hibernian.

    Make what you will about the other two.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:01 am
  • Seattle is apparently showing interest in Colombian winger/striker Victor Ibarbo. Below is a highlight video.

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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:07 am
  • SeatownJay wrote:Seattle is apparently showing interest in Colombian winger/striker Victor Ibarbo. Below is a highlight video.



    That's more like it....

    This is the type of player the MLS needs.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:09 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:The entire crux of this discussion Si was you saying if we keep Dempsey, he shouldn't be in the starting 11.

    So maybe I'm confused as to what you meant by that. If you meant that means he and the Sounders are just fine with him being a late game sub for the rest of his career like Valdez did most of the year? You're dead wrong, neither side would be OK with that.

    If you meant what I said above, that Dempsey shouldn't be in the starting 11 until he's healthy and fit enough to start? Then I agree with you, and that's a very real possibility.

    But any long term scenario where Dempsey is on this club for the sole purpose of spot starting and coming on late as some sort of super sub, and taking up a DP slot? Not happening.


    I'm not speaking for what the Sounders would do. This is my opinion on what they should do. What I am saying is that the Sounders should not bring Dempsey back and rely on him to be in the starting 11. As the list you linked, and his last two years with the Sounders both indicate, its a major risk. Would he start some games? Sure. Does that mean they cut him? No, of course not. It means you go and find the player that will make the impact for your team in that position. Again, I like what Dallas did with their DP slots. I'd love to see Seattle do something similar. You can invest in Dempsey the player/marketing icon and still invest in great young talent.

    If Seattle has decided to bring Dempsey back and expect more than 20 games from him I would say they are taking a massive risk that ignores basic trends.

    And really, I wouldn't care if I'm a Sounders fan. If they want to spend DP money on one of not only Seattle's but America's best players ever than awesome. I'd buy a jersey. But if they don't find a real #11/8/9 to pair with Lodeiro and Morris and hope its Dempsey throughout the season I'd say that's mistake.

    I hope this makes sense. The MLS operates on two levels when it comes to player valuation.

    This is sort of a weird conversation given that Seattle signed Dempsey knowing full well he'd start around 20 games a year, given the whole USMNT thing. It's even sillier to rely on "trends" of looking at GP to deduce whether or not aging DPs start more or fewer games than their younger counterparts because of injury, especially when you throw in big name DPs who often times won't play on turf, which skews much of the data you are using to base these assumptions. Also, 1 year is not an accurate representation of the data, For instance, Dempsey missed a lot of 2015 games due to suspension and USMNT duty. Also, there is very little data that show older players are more injury prone than younger players, and in the case of Dempsey who was sidelined by an irregular heartbeat, which wasn't preventing him from playing at a high level, but is merely a symptom that may or may not be associated with a career-ending heart condition, we can safely assume that if he's cleared to play, the irregular heartbeat will have 0 affect on his ability to perform for the Sounders. Now, given that Dempsey was the second best offensive threat the Sounders had by a wide margin last year, I think it's fair to say the Sounders can rely on him as contributor moving forward and not just a publicity generator. So if the Sounders expect a healthy Clint next season, it's reasonable to expect him to be in your starting 11 and rely on him to be what he's been every year he's been a Sounder.

    In other words, there really aren't basic trends supporting your argument that haven't already been there since Dempsey became a Sounder. So why bother to bring up Dempsey at all? You already said you want a young DP like Dallas and Seattle has a DP spot open and by all accounts is looking to add one or two allocation players as well which fills all of your starting 11 needs and then some...
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:20 am
  • It's silly to use statistics to formulate an opinion? Odd coming from you. Also, you are simply reiterating my point while trying to turn strangely against what I am saying. I'd suggest just looking at the number of games that DP players over the age of 30 actually played this past season is pretty good data. But knock yourself out.

    If Seattle signed Dempsey "knowing full well he'd only start around 20 games" as you say then that just adds to my point... which was simple: Don't sign Dempsey and rely him to be in your starting 11. I never said you shouldn't sign him. I never said it had anything to do with injury. I just said they should be looking for a player that can contribute season long to that role. So again, you are just reiterating my point. I also find it odd that you can "safely assume" anything about a 33 year old's health. If he was cleared to play after a knee injury would you still not be concerned about another knee injury? Interesting way to evaluate players.

    Point was this: Don't rely on a 33 year old with an injury history (or without, because old guys get hurt or wear down, as the evidence that you think is silly actually suggests) to be in your Starting 11. Ensure you have a proper player to be there. But that does not mean you should not sign him. The MLS actually signs these types of players alot, and for a variety of reasons, which again was my point. Sgt. said the Sounders would never sign a DP player to only play 20 games. You just said they will. So who are you debating?
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:30 am
  • SeatownJay wrote:Seattle is apparently showing interest in Colombian winger/striker Victor Ibarbo. Below is a highlight video.



    They listened!

    Perfect big body winger type that would fit in well in MLS and what we need on this club with the departure of Valdez.

    I never get too excited about DP rumors, as 90% of them never come true, but I like the type of player we're targeting.
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Re: Seattle Sounders 2016 season thread
Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:34 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    SeatownJay wrote:Seattle is apparently showing interest in Colombian winger/striker Victor Ibarbo. Below is a highlight video.



    They listened!

    Perfect big body winger type that would fit in well in MLS and what we need on this club with the departure of Valdez.

    I never get too excited about DP rumors, as 90% of them never come true, but I like the type of player we're targeting.



    More than his physical stature, he has the pedigree and is at that age where a stint in the MLS may bring out more in his game then his time in the European leagues had done.

    Again, like the idea of players like this coming to the MLS
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