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USMNT World Cup Qualifiers: Klinsmann out; Arenas in

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  • I had to create a new thread cause I'm so fired up about last night's debacle of biblical proportions.

    So we're playing our biggest rival for our very first qualifier on home soil with new players that have had all of one week to assimilate with each other......................................NEW FORMATION!

    This sort of blunder is what gets managers fired, and if Jurgen Klinsmann was the manager of a big Euro nation, I betcha he'd have his walking papers this morning. He singlehandedly lost that match last night with his hairbrained formation change............and worse his refusal to switch us back to a more traditional formation that our players have always played in until almost halftime of getting our heads kicked in for 45 minutes looking like idiots out of position.

    Absolutely and utterly inexcusable.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:31 am
  • They lost the match because noone marked Mexico's most dangerous player on a late (89th minute late) set piece. That is inexcusable on the players.

    However, Klinsmann really out thought himself. I understand his thinking in terms of the wingbacks, but why against Mexico? A 352 is far from "hairbrained" but I don't think it was the right call against Mexico. Also, not sure about "traditional" in the sense that a handful of players that started have maybe played 3/4 games with the USMNT? It's not like the group was engrossed in the 433. And they did move to the 442 later that allowed Woods and Altidore to play together.

    No coach would have been fired over this. But he has questions to answer before the next one.

    All that said... Pulisic might have been the best player on the field, certainly the USMNTs best player and Bobby Wood is very good (shocker.. they both play club ball in Germany). Something exciting to take away
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:32 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:They lost the match because noone marked Mexico's most dangerous player on a late (89th minute late) set piece. That is inexcusable on the players.

    However, Klinsmann really out thought himself. I understand his thinking in terms of the wingbacks, but why against Mexico? A 352 is far from "hairbrained" but I don't think it was the right call against Mexico. Also, not sure about "traditional" in the sense that a handful of players that started have maybe played 3/4 games with the USMNT? It's not like the group was engrossed in the 433. And they did move to the 442 later that allowed Woods and Altidore to play together.

    No coach would have been fired over this. But he has questions to answer before the next one.

    All that said... Pulisic might have been the best player on the field, certainly the USMNTs best player and Bobby Wood is very good (shocker.. they both play club ball in Germany). Something exciting to take away


    Like I said, the stubbornness of Klinsmann to wait until right before the half to move back to a 442 when it was so clearly evident that the 352 was a disaster the entire half and the score should have been 3-0 at half, not 1-0, Mexico hit the bar twice was the most egregious issue I had of Klinsmann.

    Bottom line for me Si is you don't try a new formation against your biggest rival in your first qualifier, and you ESPECIALLY don't stubbornly stick with it for almost 45 minutes getting your ass handed to you.

    Agree about Pulisic, I have a hard time thinking of another player with as quick of a first touch creating space and moving forward dangerously as him.........at 18? Insane.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:55 am
  • I don't disagree about the way it started. But you cant move from a 352 to a 442 in the run of play. Waiting until half time was fine. And 3-0 is being a bit dramatic. Sure, they hit the bar twice. Both good saves by Howard.

    My concern is the amount of midfield the US was conceding in the first half, and the insistence of using Pulisic in the middle. Again, Klinsmann made a poor decision in starting the game as he did. by the way, as good as he was, Pulisic's first touch gaffe on the deflected ball that fell to him at the top of the box in the first was cringe worthy. Still, the kid is good, and seemed to enjoy himself.

    Good managers get it wrong often. Great ones make adjustments. They deserved a point from that game. Let's see how Klinsmann lines them up in Costa Rica, a place they have not won in a very long time.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:06 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:I don't disagree about the way it started. But you cant move from a 352 to a 442 in the run of play. Waiting until half time was fine. And 3-0 is being a bit dramatic. Sure, they hit the bar twice. Both good saves by Howard.

    My concern is the amount of midfield the US was conceding in the first half, and the insistence of using Pulisic in the middle. Again, Klinsmann made a poor decision in starting the game as he did. by the way, as good as he was, Pulisic's first touch gaffe on the deflected ball that fell to him at the top of the box in the first was cringe worthy. Still, the kid is good, and seemed to enjoy himself.

    Good managers get it wrong often. Great ones make adjustments. They deserved a point from that game. Let's see how Klinsmann lines them up in Costa Rica, a place they have not won in a very long time.


    The midfield is a whole other problem. Friday night's match proved what many have been saying about the rapidly aging Bradley and Jones, they're no longer capable of anchoring that midfield. They got dominated, looked slow and gave up far too much space.

    It was very hard to watch Altidore, Pulisic and Woods having to track back for most of the game just to get involved and help the overmatched Jones and Bradley. So not sure what other younger faster options we have at CM, but Klinsmann needs to look long and hard at those two players and whether they're capable of making another WC run with this team..........cause I don't see it.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:22 pm
  • "this" team is the transition to getting through qualification. I imagine between now and 2018 we will see more of Morris, Nagbe, Gil, Hyndman, Trapp. Gooch, Stanko, Green, etc. in the friendlies and maybe easier home hex games. But its quite clear Klinsmann, for good or bad, wants to see the likes of Bedoya, Bradley, Zusi, Jones help the group through the difficult tasks.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:52 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:"this" team is the transition to getting through qualification. I imagine between now and 2018 we will see more of Morris, Nagbe, Gil, Hyndman, Trapp. Gooch, Stanko, Green, etc. in the friendlies and maybe easier home hex games. But its quite clear Klinsmann, for good or bad, wants to see the likes of Bedoya, Bradley, Zusi, Jones help the group through the difficult tasks.


    Well I'd rather see those guys now, or else we may not even make it through qualifying.

    Another glaring issue is goalkeeping. If we have to go 3 more years with the nursing home tandem of Guzan and Howard? That's scary. Where's Hamid? Dude had a great year with DC, put him in.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:25 am
  • There are actually a bevy of good goalkeepers in the US system right now (including Pulisic's cousin believe it or not). Again, I think Klinsmann wanted to get off to a good start in the hex and went with veterans. I don't disagree with the move, but there are so many young players testing themselves at the highest levels (a quick summary of the USMNT rosters for first team, U23 and U19 reflect the ambition of American players) that he will need to start integrating them soon or risk losing out all together.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:18 am
  • I am now officially on the Fire Klinsmann bandwagon.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:37 am
  • SeatownJay wrote:I am now officially on the Fire Klinsmann bandwagon.


    The next game is March 24. If they are going to make a change it has to be now. If not, wait until after qualifying.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:56 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    SeatownJay wrote:I am now officially on the Fire Klinsmann bandwagon.


    The next game is March 24. If they are going to make a change it has to be now. If not, wait until after qualifying.


    There's not going to be any qualifying if the change doesn't happen now.

    Losing to your two biggest rivals in qualifying a combined score of 6-1 is enough for me, get Arena or someone else in there now to try and change the energy on the squad and salvage whatever chance is left of qualifying.

    I've been critical of Jurgen all along, IMO his ego and negative style of sniping at his players in the press has finally come home to roost, this team QUIT after going down 2-0 last night. That's a glaring red flag that he's lost the team.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:30 am
  • Well I don't agree the team can't qualify if he remains coach. However, if the USMNT wants to make a change now is the time to do it.

    And don't take steps backwards with a name like Arena. Get someone proper in here, or hell, promote Reyna. This program does not need to take negative steps even to salvage qualifying in an insanely easy group. Remember, they just have to finish 4th.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:35 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:Well I don't agree the team can't qualify if he remains coach. However, if the USMNT wants to make a change now is the time to do it.

    And don't take steps backwards with a name like Arena. Get someone proper in here, or hell, promote Reyna. This program does not need to take negative steps even to salvage qualifying in an insanely easy group. Remember, they just have to finish 4th.


    I just threw out Arena cause that's the name I'm seeing all over Twitter. Reyna'd be great, the players respect the hell out of him.

    All I know is I want Kilnsmann out, he's had more than enough time to get this team ready and competing at a high level, not regressing back to the 80's.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:40 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Well I don't agree the team can't qualify if he remains coach. However, if the USMNT wants to make a change now is the time to do it.

    And don't take steps backwards with a name like Arena. Get someone proper in here, or hell, promote Reyna. This program does not need to take negative steps even to salvage qualifying in an insanely easy group. Remember, they just have to finish 4th.


    I just threw out Arena cause that's the name I'm seeing all over Twitter. Reyna'd be great, the players respect the hell out of him.

    All I know is I want Kilnsmann out, he's had more than enough time to get this team ready and competing at a high level, not regressing back to the 80's.


    I begrudgingly agree. I am over Klinsmann. I was very inspired by the direction he wanted to take US Soccer. But he is showing the lack of tactical acumen that cost him his job in Germany.

    I would prefer a change at this point, although I don't see the USMNT making one. I would even suggest there are a host of names in the MLS that would do wonders. Robert Mancini is also without a job at the moment.

    (I am also in between seasons and just completed a historic season.. should anyone ask you for a recommendation)
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:13 am
  • Another name I've heard brought up by other fans is Oscar Pareja.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:54 am

Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:28 pm


  • Very fair article, and touched on a lot of things I said above. Klinsmann IMO has lost the locker room, and for that reason alone he needs to go.

    Can't go the next two years with a lame duck manager 80% of the players don't respect or want to listen to because at one time or another he's kicked them in the nuts over their career decisions or play.

    I also stand by that our midfield needs a major overhaul. I'd rather go youth and inexperience over Jones and Bradley if it means injecting some speed and energy into the CM position. I suspect even Jurgen knew this glaring deficiency going into the Mexico match, thus the formation switch to a 3-5-2 dropping Pulisic inside.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:40 pm
  • If he's lost the locker room then you change the players. Everything he has brought up In regards to American soccer, it's leagues and players is correct. His biggest assets on the team reflect that very philosophy. His delivery may be rough but he's not incorrect.

    The issue here is his tactical acumen. A 352 doesn't win you the midfield if your players cannot connect passes from the back. He out thought himself, and that is not new.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:48 am
  • From what I saw on Tuesday night, the USMNT doesn't deserve to play for the World Cup. It was an absolutely pathetic showing after an underwhelming effort against Mexico last Friday.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:22 pm
  • Klinsmann is out
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:01 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:Klinsmann is out


    We knew it was coming. Can't lose your locker room, just can't.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:13 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Klinsmann is out


    We knew it was coming. Can't lose your locker room, just can't.


    I don't know man. You and I disagree on this point. You can always change your locker room. You literally have an entire nation at your disposal. He couldve turned to the kids and they'd have loved him for it. Not being able to placate the likes of Altidore and Bradley (or Donovan) who have digressed anyways doesn't strike me as a bad thing. Its what US soccer needs anyways.

    I think he boxed himself in from USSF and they've been waiting for a reason to push him out. By the sounds of it they had opened up talks with potential replacements before the Mexico match.

    If they turn to Bruce Arenas we will all be waxing nostalgic for the Klinsmann days. I think Gulati should be following Klinsmann, but here we are.
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Re: USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:33 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Klinsmann is out


    We knew it was coming. Can't lose your locker room, just can't.


    I don't know man. You and I disagree on this point. You can always change your locker room. You literally have an entire nation at your disposal. He couldve turned to the kids and they'd have loved him for it. Not being able to placate the likes of Altidore and Bradley (or Donovan) who have digressed anyways doesn't strike me as a bad thing. Its what US soccer needs anyways.

    I think he boxed himself in from USSF and they've been waiting for a reason to push him out. By the sounds of it they had opened up talks with potential replacements before the Mexico match.

    If they turn to Bruce Arenas we will all be waxing nostalgic for the Klinsmann days. I think Gulati should be following Klinsmann, but here we are.


    No team changes the locker room into a season or in this case qualifying stage.

    Yes you have an entire nation, but that takes years to try out and bring in new players. We have good players, these are mostly the same players that Klinsmann won with before, so it's not the players (for the most part), it's their coach who's tactics and style of coaching has come to the end if his shelf life.

    That's all, doesn't mean Jurgen isn't a good soccer coach, or won't have success elsewhere. But the US program after two embarrassing qualifying losses needs new ideas and more importantly a leader the players will fight for.
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  • Well I disagree again... yes, you can and many countries do effectively change the majority of their line up during these stages of qualifying. England is constantly bouncing its line up around depending on player form heading into each break. You just need a coach that can support the decisions. The thing is, Jurgen is a poor "coach." What he was doing for US Soccer was expanding its reach, its structure, its scope and objectives. Klinsmann effectively balked at making changes then blamed the players. It's your fault. What he could not do was set his team out from match to match and get results. Dude.. you're the coach.

    Arena's ideas of how the USMNT are digressive. He would be a terrible appointment.
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  • Guessing it will be Arena but honestly don't want him or Sigi.

    Someone different please.
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  • I'm in no way asking for Arena.

    If that's the plan, it's a bad one..........unless the USMNT has just resigned to treading water until after the next WC.

    One thing we can agree on hopefully, Drew Magery is funny.

    http://deadspin.com/i-should-coach-the- ... socialflow
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  • I agree with Si....Gulati needs to go. I think USSF has hit its ceiling under his leadership. It's time to bring a new face to run things.

    As for the next coach what about Thomas Rongen? He has been involved in USSF in a number of roles. Most recently the coach of American Samoa - https://www.yahoo.com/news/zac-lee-rigg-thomas-rongen-183600208-soccer.html
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  • hawkfan68 wrote:I agree with Si....Gulati needs to go. I think USSF has hit its ceiling under his leadership. It's time to bring a new face to run things.

    As for the next coach what about Thomas Rongen? He has been involved in USSF in a number of roles. Most recently the coach of American Samoa - https://www.yahoo.com/news/zac-lee-rigg-thomas-rongen-183600208-soccer.html


    Rongen would be a good long term candidate. I also like Jason Kries, Oscar Pareja (someone brought him up earlier) and Caleb Porter, Cladio Reyna or even Tab Ramos if they want to hire American/MLS, which does not have to be the answer. As Klinsmann parts, the biggest concern will be whether his very astute vision for soccer in America goes with him. He was a shite game manager, but he understood fully what the development foundation should be here.

    http://deadspin.com/the-usmnt-should-not-be-coached-by-an-american-1789236832

    Short term, however, I would love to see Mancini.
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  • Sounds like Arena is all but official which is a damn shame.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Short term, however, I would love to see Mancini.


    Why only short term? Mancini would be a fantastic long term hire as well. He has the juice and soccer knowledge to command the respect of the entire program and all it's players.

    IMO a US coach is the exact wrong way to go long term. That's a regression back to the stagnant Bob Bradley years. Which is fine if we just want to continue to make the WC, and maybe get through to knockout rounds.

    But if the US program REALLY wants to take the next step and become a perennial top 10 program, then it's going to have to find a coach like Jurgen that takes chances and can facilitate the necessary changes to US Development................even if it doesn't work out in the end.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    Short term, however, I would love to see Mancini.


    Why only short term? Mancini would be a fantastic long term hire as well. He has the juice and soccer knowledge to command the respect of the entire program and all it's players.

    IMO a US coach is the exact wrong way to go long term. That's a regression back to the stagnant Bob Bradley years. Which is fine if we just want to continue to make the WC, and maybe get through to knockout rounds.

    But if the US program REALLY wants to take the next step and become a perennial top 10 program, then it's going to have to find a coach like Jurgen that takes chances and can facilitate the necessary changes to US Development................even if it doesn't work out in the end.


    I love Mancini. I listed him as short term because it seems that is what the USSF is looking for at the moment. Plus, I don't see Mancini as wanting to be a long term international coach.

    I like the idea of a young, energetic MLS coach trying to take the reigns. However, I do think the program as a whole needs/deserves more. And this is where Klinsmann was unique and will be a tough, tough loss. there are lots of dynamic European and South American coaches who would jump at a job like this. But how many are really going to dive into the development side of the team vs. just working the first team. Klinsmann understood this dynamic, even if he couldn't realize it on the field with the first team.

    In retrospect, Klinsmann should've stayed. What he needed was a better assistant coach. But that's in retrospect now.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    In retrospect, Klinsmann should've stayed. What he needed was a better assistant coach. But that's in retrospect now.


    Idk, I respect Jurgen for trying to change things.............and 5-6 years is a long time for any national team manager. So that was about the shelf life to be expected.

    Bottom line is maybe the US doesn't have the players or development to to be a top 10 country, but they do have the money to throw at just about any coach they want, so the sky should be the limit for the next hire.

    The Arena hiring tells me that the program needed a strong stern presence that could restore some discipline and order to the squad and overall organizational ladder.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    In retrospect, Klinsmann should've stayed. What he needed was a better assistant coach. But that's in retrospect now.


    Idk, I respect Jurgen for trying to change things.............and 5-6 years is a long time for any national team manager. So that was about the shelf life to be expected.

    Bottom line is maybe the US doesn't have the players or development to to be a top 10 country, but they do have the money to throw at just about any coach they want, so the sky should be the limit for the next hire.

    The Arena hiring tells me that the program needed a strong stern presence that could restore some discipline and order to the squad and overall organizational ladder.



    Changing things is a long, long process, and it starts at the youth level. Klinsmann understood this better than I think anyone in the US does. His game day tactics were a struggle.

    The hiring of Arena is a bull shit "safe play" by a bunch of people who not only do not understand the actual dilemma facing US soccer but have no interest in investing the time or resources to changing it. Its unfair to continue to say there was no order in the team. That's speculation and stemming from voices of players who were failing. Arena will do nothing more than organize the group and make certain players feel comfortable. Great... just what the US needs. Overrun players who won't risk challenge for the sake of their own comfort being pillowed even more. I'm sure our younger stars like Pulisic and Bobby Wood are wondering exactly what the point of all of this is, while the likes of Bradley and Altidore are nodding in affirmation that the status quo has been restored.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    The hiring of Arena is a bull shit "safe play" by a bunch of people who not only do not understand the actual dilemma facing US soccer but have no interest in investing the time or resources to changing it. Its unfair to continue to say there was no order in the team. That's speculation and stemming from voices of players who were failing. Arena will do nothing more than organize the group and make certain players feel comfortable. Great... just what the US needs. Overrun players who won't risk challenge for the sake of their own comfort being pillowed even more. I'm sure our younger stars like Pulisic and Bobby Wood are wondering exactly what the point of all of this is, while the likes of Bradley and Altidore are nodding in affirmation that the status quo has been restored.


    Of course it's all speculation, but I know what I saw against Costa Rica, the same thing Gulati and the rest of US Soccer management saw................a team that quit on it's coach. THAT'S why Jurgen is gone, plain and simple. Shouldn't happen, can't happen. Period.

    Our youth programs are an entirely different conversation. I saw someone on Twitter last night sum up our problem very simply. The #1 issue is in the US we have an elitest "pay to play" system that produces Alexi Lalas's and not Alexi Sanchez's.

    This is an issue with just about every american sport, but it's especially true of soccer where the only way to get your child on the best clubs and into the right systems is to pay insane amounts of money over a decade or more. That leaves out the vast majority of our youth population.
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  • Couple things..

    Players who quit on their coach should be replaced. The Bradley's, Altidore's, Jones' have no more usefulness in this program. That's the thing that bothers me. Pulisic, Wood, Hyndman and a score or more of elite US players under the age of 21 are coming through the ranks under the development system and philosophy that Klinsmann created. Those players, who see the ideals he is championing and are acting on them (playing at the highest level possible) are the ones who should be focused on. Those players would have played for Klinsmann. Bradley and the MLS all stars can do one. Their time was over. They've been given a lease by a coach who basically coddles to mediocrity, no need to look further than his under performing Galaxy team this year. The USSF took a safe play. They should not be celebrated for their acknowledgment of what they saw by releasing the coach. They should be condemned for not realizing it was those players and the Donovans before who needed to be vetted out of the USMNT years ago. You seem to think that the tuck and hide job done by veterans in Costa Rica is an indictment on the coach. I disagree.. that's an indictment on them.

    Pay for play is a hype phrase being bandied about by people who fail to see the development tiers in place and how they have changed just in the last 5 years. It is not the problem. Yes, players pay to play in their youth clubs, sometimes alot. However, the newest form of these, created in the last decade (under the encouragement of Klinsmann) is the MLS and Developmental academies. There is not a tuition or cost to the MLS academies. I have sent 2 players age 12 to the Sporting academy. The kids don't pay a thing, train with Sporting 5 days a week, travel with the club and live with their parents (Under 14 kids must live with parents, so they moved). Kids over 15 are placed with host families and pay "rent" at some or are boarded at others. There are dozens of similar academies (either sponsored by MLS teams or as part of big clubs with corporate sponsorship) under the same foundation. This is how it's done in Europe. Kids are not missing out.

    The problem is two fold: Coaches who are not prepared to challenge their players to get better. This is philosophical, and a conversation for another time. I'll say this, as a coach for an academy: we stare kids in the eyes and tell them we care about their development while getting needled in the back by their parents and coaching directors to make sure we win. You can't have both. Second, we are a big nation, geographically. There are 60+ developmental academies spread across the nation. Kids are being found. They are playing. It is hard to get them together. We rely on a "hey look, we have this kid" system. Without going into a great deal of detail I'm sure you can see the inefficiency of that.

    Klinsmann recognized all of these problems and was working diligently to correct them. You don't fire a guy for two results. He was brash and arrogant because he recognized the ignorance and stubbornness of the people currently in charge of building the sport here. That's why he was let go. The results were the thrust of the knife they had been sharpening for a couple years.

    it's too bad. He had a vision I was happy to play a small role in. It sucks he was such a mediocre game manager. They could have given him an assistant to help with the first team and let him bring the development side together.

    Instead we get a guy who says all USMNT players need to be born in America. Great...
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  • I definitely agree there needs to be a consolidation and uniformity of our youth programs.

    As far as the pay to play, in order to get to those MLS youth clubs Si the player had to go through at least 4-5 years of a pay to play program.

    Take Yedlin for example, he came from my daughter's premiere program, Crossfire. If he wasn't in Crossfire he never would have gotten a tryout to get into Emerald City FC, which is what you're talking about, a non profit academy.

    So it's still a problem IMO, cause I've seen it firsthand. I've coached and seen many good young athletes that drifted off into other sports once they got to age 10-12 cause their parents couldn't afford the 5-10k per year it cost to go into a Crossfire or similar premiere club.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I definitely agree there needs to be a consolidation and uniformity of our youth programs.

    As far as the pay to play, in order to get to those MLS youth clubs Si the player had to go through at least 4-5 years of a pay to play program.

    Take Yedlin for example, he came from my daughter's premiere program, Crossfire. If he wasn't in Crossfire he never would have gotten a tryout to get into Emerald City FC, which is what you're talking about, a non profit academy.

    So it's still a problem IMO, cause I've seen it firsthand. I've coached and seen many good young athletes that drifted off into other sports once they got to age 10-12 cause their parents couldn't afford the 5-10k per year it cost to go into a Crossfire or similar premiere club.


    My club is at the same level (in terms of the tier) as Crossfire. Our kids pay 1500-3K depending on travel. Most of that cost goes into the Winter training and field rental component. Sockers and Gallagher are the two biggest clubs in the region. Annual cost is under 3K for the 2nd teams. Top teams are free because of corporate scholarship (they have their own facilities). Both of the kids I helped get to Sporting played one year at my club. Before that they were at a local rec club, paying under 400$ a season (a season lasts 9-12 months). The two kids we are hoping to move down next year are in similar situations.

    For every Yedlin I could tell you 50 kids who are doing it differently. It's not perfect, its evolving, and it is not the problem.

    The issue here is mentality. We do not need to consolidate. We are far too big of a country. What we need is a general direction and ambition that is beyond selfishness and mirrors the objectives of our players. Until that... we will promote winning at all costs, we will promote training with coaches and diminish open play, we will fire coaches who understand what the mentality is and promote coaches and players who are used to the coddling they've got their entire soccer careers.
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  • Then once again Si, we shall agree to disagree.

    I've coached and been involved with youth soccer with my daughter for over 12 years, and all I've seen on every soccer pitch she ever played on is rich, affluent white girls. Same goes for 90% of the boys I helped coach.

    From Vancouver to Vancouver, east to west........nothing but affluency as far as the eye can see. Yes when she was young we played a few inner city clubs, but the older she got those clubs weren't on the schedule anymore. They evaporated because those inner city kids couldn't move up into bigger clubs because of the cost. Even $500 a year was too much for them. Good players too.

    Which btw, IS contributing to that spoiled entitled coach and players you're talking about that aren't tough enough, and aren't coached hard enough. But that's also a product of the affluent parents controlling the purse strings of the academies and programs through their cash getting coaches hired and fired.

    So you wanna install that grit and hard nosed mentality? Get rid of the lilly white pay to play affluent system that churns out spoiled kids that are coddled their entire soccer careers.
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  • I've been involved in the Academy system, the highest we have at the youth level, for the last 5 years. Everything you are describing has faded dramatically at soccer's top tier. Does it reach every kid? No, and neither does any system in any part of the world.

    Again, I can continue to give you countless (hundreds really) examples. But I don't think it will matter. Two of the biggest clubs in Minnesota are MU and Blackhawks, both representing the inner city. Blackhawks takes their "affluent" (half the teams are Somali or of African or Hmong decent) to Sweden every Summer. Its way too easy to point a finger and suggest this is the problem without seeing it play out every day. I'll just say your summation is very, very far off. Competitiveness and skill is what drives these teams now. You should get back into it. You might be surprised what you see.

    What's interesting is the system you are talking about is what got us the Michael Bradley and Landon Donovan generation, the two players Klinsmann called out for their softness.
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  • USSF really needs to start thinking in long term rather than short term. I'd rather they miss 2018 WC and develop into a good showing for 2022 WC. By then guys like Pulisic, Wood, Green, Morris, and Yedlin will be the core of the team. Bringing in Arena (even in the short term) sets the team back. He's not going to develop these guys and that's why USSF is always in rebuilding mode. They never build or sustain anything. Countries like Ecuador and Costa Rica are surpassing them due to this state of flux.
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  • hawkfan68 wrote:USSF really needs to start thinking in long term rather than short term. I'd rather they miss 2018 WC and develop into a good showing for 2022 WC. By then guys like Pulisic, Wood, Green, Morris, and Yedlin will be the core of the team. Bringing in Arena (even in the short term) sets the team back. He's not going to develop these guys and that's why USSF is always in rebuilding mode. They never build or sustain anything. Countries like Ecuador and Costa Rica are surpassing them due to this state of flux.


    Arena is only contracted for this campaign and this world cup if we qualify. After that who knows, we may bring someone else in to help with the new core. Seems more like a safe pair of hands than anything.

    I still don't know who to bring in long term who is dynamic and would want to manage international soccer.

    Speaking of which it sounds like the Galaxy are going in for Caleb Porter.
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  • hawkfan68 wrote:USSF really needs to start thinking in long term rather than short term. I'd rather they miss 2018 WC and develop into a good showing for 2022 WC. By then guys like Pulisic, Wood, Green, Morris, and Yedlin will be the core of the team. Bringing in Arena (even in the short term) sets the team back. He's not going to develop these guys and that's why USSF is always in rebuilding mode. They never build or sustain anything. Countries like Ecuador and Costa Rica are surpassing them due to this state of flux.


    Like I said above, Arena is a safe hire to get everyone back on the same page for this WC, and this WC only.

    Unless he gets this squad to play out of their minds all the way through the WC, then a new search will begin immediately after the WC, or sooner if we can't get through qualifying.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hawkfan68 wrote:USSF really needs to start thinking in long term rather than short term. I'd rather they miss 2018 WC and develop into a good showing for 2022 WC. By then guys like Pulisic, Wood, Green, Morris, and Yedlin will be the core of the team. Bringing in Arena (even in the short term) sets the team back. He's not going to develop these guys and that's why USSF is always in rebuilding mode. They never build or sustain anything. Countries like Ecuador and Costa Rica are surpassing them due to this state of flux.


    Like I said above, Arena is a safe hire to get everyone back on the same page for this WC, and this WC only.

    Unless he gets this squad to play out of their minds all the way through the WC, then a new search will begin immediately after the WC, or sooner if we can't get through qualifying.


    I still don't like the hire. Arena already had an opportunity and he was replaced. I think making a conscientious decision of choosing someone long term should have been priority. There are plenty of coaches that are a better fit for the long term. Choosing to go with Arena just for 1-2 years is shoddy strategy. This is why the USMNT is always in rebuild mode and not in developing and rise mode. They don't have a long term vision. Moves like this is why I think Gulati is the problem. He needs to go.
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  • I don't like it either. Not as a stop gap. Not as a temporary appointment to get through this cycle of qualifying. And certainly not as a long term (which he won't be)

    For me though i can accept it for the match fixtures but would be so frustrated if he is on the sideline in 2018.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:Not encouraging in the slightest...

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/bruce-arena-outlines-his-plan-for-u-s-soccer-1480464306?mod=e2fb

    On how the U.S. will play: “We’re not going to look like Barcelona...There is nothing wrong with counter-attacking. Real Madrid does it pretty well if you watch them lately.”

    Counter attacking soccer... in international play.

    Welcome back Arenas.


    Welcome back Bradley as well.

    Like I said, Arena was the safe hire to circle the wagons and get the squad fundamentally sound and start climbing their way back into the WC qualifying slots. So yep, get ready for the old boring but effective 442 playing for the counter.

    But IMO if you're gonna go that route, it's time to put players like Altidore, Jones and Bradley out to pasture......and go young in the midfield and up top. Morris, Zardes, Nagbe and of course Pulisic. That's the kind of speed and quickness you need for a good counter attack.
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  • Issue here is that counter attacking soccer is fairly ineffective in international soccer. Arena doesn't seem the safe option at all. He seems more in line with what Gulati thinks of soccer. But that is not how the rest of the nations academies are developing players and completely disrupts the model and curriculum set up by Klinsmann and set forth by Reyna. These are huge issues. Arena is a call back to mediocrity. That may seem safe to one man, but is effectively disrupting the world outside of those two.

    Counter attacking soccer does not work at the International level. Period.
    Teams tend to be very disciplined and safe in international matches, mostly due to the inefficiencies and lack of cohesiveness in bringing all these players together over a short time. "Setting up" to counter attack and then using a high level (the highest, really) club team in Real Madrid as an example shows how far off the plot he really is. He honestly thinks because it worked against Portugal and Mexico in South Korea that it will surely work again, without even reflecting on how lucky that team was.

    He has already clearly addressed his issues on foreign nationals and has not yet mentioned how he plans on developing his young players. This is not just a step backwards, but a full on tumble.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:Issue here is that counter attacking soccer is fairly ineffective in international soccer. Arena doesn't seem the safe option at all. He seems more in line with what Gulati thinks of soccer. But that is not how the rest of the nations academies are developing players and completely disrupts the model and curriculum set up by Klinsmann and set forth by Reyna. These are huge issues. Arena is a call back to mediocrity. That may seem safe to one man, but is effectively disrupting the world outside of those two.

    Counter attacking soccer does not work at the International level. Period.
    Teams tend to be very disciplined and safe in international matches, mostly due to the inefficiencies and lack of cohesiveness in bringing all these players together over a short time. "Setting up" to counter attack and then using a high level (the highest, really) club team in Real Madrid as an example shows how far off the plot he really is. He honestly thinks because it worked against Portugal and Mexico in South Korea that it will surely work again, without even reflecting on how lucky that team was.

    He has already clearly addressed his issues on foreign nationals and has not yet mentioned how he plans on developing his young players. This is not just a step backwards, but a full on tumble.


    I agree with everything you're saying, other than Arena. He is literally the safest hire possible at this point in time.

    He is the oldest of old school American soccer coaches with the highest profile.
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  • I don't disagree on that. I just don't think that's the "safe" play. I guess I'm looking at it a little differently. I think in trying to be easy they have made a damaging choice.

    They have regressed to hire without actually acknowledging how the climate of American soccer, its players, youth development and even fans have progressed. If we had gone back to Arena after Bradley, I think that would have been "safe." However, in turning to him now they are ignoring how US soccer is viewed. Its coaches, players, fans are so much smarter about the game. Their expectations are higher. They are invested in the program from top to bottom. Arena doesn't tick any of the boxes American soccer needs.


    People are not thrilled with this appointment. Some are angry. Many are frustrated. If anything, almost everyone is underwhelmed.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:People are not thrilled with this appointment. Some are angry. Many are frustrated. If anything, almost everyone is underwhelmed.


    Of course, no soccer fan wants to throw in the towel, which is what the Arena hiring means. It means it'll be another 2-4 years of stagnation of the US Soccer program before we try again with hiring a dynamic coach with bigger ideas...................................I just hope it doesn't mean regression.
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