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USMNT World Cup Qualifiers: Klinsmann out; Arenas in

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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:People are not thrilled with this appointment. Some are angry. Many are frustrated. If anything, almost everyone is underwhelmed.


    Of course, no soccer fan wants to throw in the towel, which is what the Arena hiring means. It means it'll be another 2-4 years of stagnation of the US Soccer program before we try again with hiring a dynamic coach with bigger ideas...................................I just hope it doesn't mean regression.


    Stagnation is regression. 20 years ago people were thrilled with the type of soccer Arena brought to the USMNT. Now, that perspective has changed dramatically and alot of that is due to Klinsmann (not just the coach but the man).

    Soccer is huge now here. It can't be denied. Statistics aren't necessary to make the point. It is what it is. Arena has no connection to that progress.
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  • Maybe you're right Si, we'll see how the team responds with Arena.

    The problem is it's very difficult to find the next amazing coach in the middle of qualifying all over the world. It's like firing a head coach or manager mid-season, you don't have a choice but to just promote an assistant until the season's over when you can go after a better candidate.

    Same thing here. Until the next WC's over, Arena is a placeholder, for better or worse.

    So Gulati's decision was stay with Klinsmann and hope he turns it around, or fire him and move on now and hope Arena can right the ship........much like the Sounders did. Worked out for them, so I'm not as doom and gloom as you.

    If you're right and Arena craps the bed, then we'll go after the next high profile dynamic coach that most soccer fans want to see after the WC.
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  • If we judge the future on the present... meaning we judge USMNT and Arena on whether they can pull enough points out to get out of the Hex, then we are truly doomed.

    My biggest issue with Arena is he is a reflection of an era of American soccer that is gone. Grinding out results through athletic, disciplined, gritty play was great for 20 years. It got the US to World Cups and even into the knockout rounds a couple times.

    Klinsmann had a bigger plan, with Reyna.. to develop/instill and set up a youth to main team philosophy based on not grinding out results just to get results (worst thing you can do at youth level is keep score) but to develop a skill set, mind set and mentality to play the game at a high level and challenge for greatness, not just above average. The last 6 years of soccer development in the US has been geared towards that model, embracing it (not perfectly). Arena represents a fall back to above average... and in that he is a digression.

    At this point, I'd give up the World Cup for a better coach. Whats the point in rolling out the same average players in a below average group stage and earning a spot in a tournament the nation once again has no chance of winning.

    Look, Klinsmann was never going to win a World Cup with the US. But he was setting the groundwork. You can't follow him with essentially the same guy he replaced. Its ludicrous.

    edit: i feel like i'm blaming you for this... definitely not. I do like a long soccer discussion.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    edit: i feel like i'm blaming you for this... definitely not. I do like a long soccer discussion.


    Ha, it's all good homey. I'd much rather discuss soccer than read the 8,871,239th fire Bevell thread.

    Arena's already tagged Roldan for a possible call up, so that excites me. My hope is he goes with a total youth overhaul, I don't care if it means a step back at first. The US needs to get younger in the midfield. I'd be happy if we never saw Bradley or Jones ever again in a US kit.
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  • Bruce Arena will probably get this team into the World Cup, but he's the wrong answer. This is a guy who doesn't believe in analytics, is more stubborn than Jurgen with his lineup decisions, all while providing some of the most uninspiring tactics you will ever see in international play.

    I really don't see any upside to this move. Jurgen for all his faults was an iconic charismatic figure who was capable of bringing attention and growing the sport just being himself. Bruce Arena is some weird combination of Jeff Fisher and Bill Belichick, strangely arrogant while managing to remain awkwardly standoffish, he's not exactly going to bring in new fans or grow the sport when the team is transitioning. So, why are we bringing him in to be a stop gap in what looks to be a transition cycle for the USMNT? Why not bring in a young coach and see what happens, or push for a big name? or why not just hold onto Jurgen until he failed (which wasn't likely given the schedule) and then move on and pursue the big names after the WC. I don't understand... By most accounts, Jurgen had things going in the right direction from a Technical Director standpoint, and moving on without any real replacement is mind numbingly frustrating.
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  • knownone wrote:This is a guy who doesn't believe in analytics, is more stubborn than Jurgen with his lineup decisions, all while providing some of the most uninspiring tactics you will ever see in international play.



    You were my first thought when I read that statement from him. in 2016/17 how can you not find value in metrics based analysis?

    The rest is spot on and a mirror of what Sarge and I are saying. The best that can be hoped for is the USMNT makes it out of a very weak group. But that also might be the worst thing.

    Only think he's done right so far is recognize that Pulisic is better then he has seen at that age and that the midfield needs an overhaul. Whether he has the insight to do anything with that information is yet to be seen.
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  • knownone wrote:Bruce Arena will probably get this team into the World Cup, but he's the wrong answer. This is a guy who doesn't believe in analytics, is more stubborn than Jurgen with his lineup decisions, all while providing some of the most uninspiring tactics you will ever see in international play.

    I really don't see any upside to this move. Jurgen for all his faults was an iconic charismatic figure who was capable of bringing attention and growing the sport just being himself. Bruce Arena is some weird combination of Jeff Fisher and Bill Belichick, strangely arrogant while managing to remain awkwardly standoffish, he's not exactly going to bring in new fans or grow the sport when the team is transitioning. So, why are we bringing him in to be a stop gap in what looks to be a transition cycle for the USMNT? Why not bring in a young coach and see what happens, or push for a big name? or why not just hold onto Jurgen until he failed (which wasn't likely given the schedule) and then move on and pursue the big names after the WC. I don't understand... By most accounts, Jurgen had things going in the right direction from a Technical Director standpoint, and moving on without any real replacement is mind numbingly frustrating.


    You just said the upside, making it to the WC............that's all we have right now, damage control and hopefully getting out of qualifying.

    Gulati knows that, he wouldn't have fired Jurgen without knowing that the US program is going to be stagnant until the next dynamic hire is in place, whatever that entails.

    What we have to hope for as fans that these next gen players like Pulisic, Morris, Miazga, Yedlin, Wood, Gooch, Williams, etc continue to gain experience and flourish over the next 2-4 years WITH what Jurgen was attempting to instill in them.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    knownone wrote:Bruce Arena will probably get this team into the World Cup, but he's the wrong answer. This is a guy who doesn't believe in analytics, is more stubborn than Jurgen with his lineup decisions, all while providing some of the most uninspiring tactics you will ever see in international play.

    I really don't see any upside to this move. Jurgen for all his faults was an iconic charismatic figure who was capable of bringing attention and growing the sport just being himself. Bruce Arena is some weird combination of Jeff Fisher and Bill Belichick, strangely arrogant while managing to remain awkwardly standoffish, he's not exactly going to bring in new fans or grow the sport when the team is transitioning. So, why are we bringing him in to be a stop gap in what looks to be a transition cycle for the USMNT? Why not bring in a young coach and see what happens, or push for a big name? or why not just hold onto Jurgen until he failed (which wasn't likely given the schedule) and then move on and pursue the big names after the WC. I don't understand... By most accounts, Jurgen had things going in the right direction from a Technical Director standpoint, and moving on without any real replacement is mind numbingly frustrating.



    Gulati knows that, he wouldn't have fired Jurgen without knowing that the US program is going to be stagnant until the next dynamic hire is in place, whatever that entails.


    Does he though? I think Gulati views success only by how the main squad performs.. and for him that is based specifically on a World Cup appearance. The man has never once revealed a vision he has for US soccer as a philosophy.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    knownone wrote:Bruce Arena will probably get this team into the World Cup, but he's the wrong answer. This is a guy who doesn't believe in analytics, is more stubborn than Jurgen with his lineup decisions, all while providing some of the most uninspiring tactics you will ever see in international play.

    I really don't see any upside to this move. Jurgen for all his faults was an iconic charismatic figure who was capable of bringing attention and growing the sport just being himself. Bruce Arena is some weird combination of Jeff Fisher and Bill Belichick, strangely arrogant while managing to remain awkwardly standoffish, he's not exactly going to bring in new fans or grow the sport when the team is transitioning. So, why are we bringing him in to be a stop gap in what looks to be a transition cycle for the USMNT? Why not bring in a young coach and see what happens, or push for a big name? or why not just hold onto Jurgen until he failed (which wasn't likely given the schedule) and then move on and pursue the big names after the WC. I don't understand... By most accounts, Jurgen had things going in the right direction from a Technical Director standpoint, and moving on without any real replacement is mind numbingly frustrating.



    Gulati knows that, he wouldn't have fired Jurgen without knowing that the US program is going to be stagnant until the next dynamic hire is in place, whatever that entails.


    Does he though? I think Gulati views success only by how the main squad performs.. and for him that is based specifically on a World Cup appearance. The man has never once revealed a vision he has for US soccer as a philosophy.


    He has, just read any of the pieces by Grant Wahl or other soccer media members over the past 4 years..........it's the same abstract big ideas any program has. Taking the program to the next level, emphasis on development, work ethic, etc. Those are the things I remember from following Wahl on Twitter and reading his pieces over the years.
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  • Grant Wahl's tweets are not manuals. Those aren't tangible or quantifiable.

    Directors have tangible/quantifiable, specific and detailed goals/expectations and a platform. His only tangible expectation is that the USMNT makes world cups.

    If you read the platform developed by Reyna and Klinsmann it is extremely specific and easy to follow at all levels. My academy knows what is expected of its players at each age group as directed by Reyna's curriculum (with some modifications set by Sporting).
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  • Uncle Si wrote:Grant Wahl's tweets are not manuals. Those aren't tangible or quantifiable.

    Directors have tangible/quantifiable, specific and detailed goals/expectations and a platform. His only tangible expectation is that the USMNT makes world cups.

    If you read the platform developed by Reyna and Klinsmann it is extremely specific and easy to follow at all levels. My academy knows what is expected of its players at each age group as directed by Reyna's curriculum (with some modifications set by Sporting).


    lol, not the tweet themselves, I doubt 140 characters is enough space to lay out a complex soccer program building plan.

    Wahl writes for SI, he's probably the best "expert" as far as who's had the most access to Gulati and Klinsmann over the years discussing this topic.

    On these sort of abstract discussions Si, I usually defer to the smart people of soccer.............and just about everyone I've seen and read has said Gulati is as smart as it comes to leading the US Soccer Federation. Columbia, Buckness, USSF President, was the key to getting the pro women's league formed.

    Also remember he's the figurehead on the WC committee trying to get the US another WC.

    I have no idea if his "vision" has been laid out publicly, but knowing those type of credentials and Gulati's level of intelligence when it comes to soccer, I'm fairly certain he and Jurgen had more than enough conversations on where they wanted the program to go, and how to get there.
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  • I know who Grant Wahl is.

    Thing is Sgt, Gulati has not outlined any specific platform for the development of US Soccer. That was done by Reyna and Klinsmann. It did not exist until Klinsmann came on board and Reyna was promoted. Gulati's only role in that was to hire Klinsmann. He has since fired him and replaced him with another coach, one who does not have a plan.

    Again, I've seen the plan(s). We get them, with updates, regularly. It involves everything from formation to tactics to fitness, nutrition, skill set, development, organization and structure. it's immensely detailed.

    I could care less about the rest of it. Gulati may be intelligent, but that is not an excuse for lacking vision. It was quite clear that he deferred to Klinsmann and only stepped in when there was an argument (MLS players, promotion/relegation).

    No one at the academy level that I have spoken with (and that is from coaches to directors and even players across the midwest) is particular pleased with Gulati or the interference of the USSF. Take that for what it's worth. I trust the people working in the system.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:I know who Grant Wahl is.

    Thing is Sgt, Gulati has not outlined any specific platform for the development of US Soccer. That was done by Reyna and Klinsmann. It did not exist until Klinsmann came on board and Reyna was promoted. Gulati's only role in that was to hire Klinsmann. He has since fired him and replaced him with another coach, one who does not have a plan.

    Again, I've seen the plan(s). We get them, with updates, regularly. It involves everything from formation to tactics to fitness, nutrition, skill set, development, organization and structure. it's immensely detailed.

    I could care less about the rest of it. Gulati may be intelligent, but that is not an excuse for lacking vision. It was quite clear that he deferred to Klinsmann and only stepped in when there was an argument (MLS players, promotion/relegation).

    No one at the academy level that I have spoken with (and that is from coaches to directors and even players across the midwest) is particular pleased with Gulati or the interference of the USSF. Take that for what it's worth. I trust the people working in the system.


    Wouldn't the logic follow Gulati was involved in the plans you received directly from Klinsmann and Reyna? Seems like that'd be the chain of command, or his general involvement.

    So let's go this direction, what would you like to see as far as the vision of US soccer be. That seems like a more constructive conversation than chastising Gulati and me defending him.
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  • If Gulati had been more than passively approving Klinsmann's plans that I suspect we would have seen something when Bradley was the coach. I think that's what I'm getting at here, Gulati's overall vision is bare bones and quantifiable only by results at the highest level. He deferred to someone with a dynamic, detailed plan moving forward. He seems more bureaucratic than visionary. His subsequent actions have shown he has no real interest in that plan.

    I am so happy you asked about my vision for US soccer... but I will take some time on that one.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    I am so happy you asked about my vision for US soccer... but I will take some time on that one.


    I await your soccer manifesto with baited breath!
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    I am so happy you asked about my vision for US soccer... but I will take some time on that one.


    I await your soccer manifesto with baited breath!


    You're a GD liar... but I'm going to post it anyways!
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  • Gulati and vision? Two words as far from each as you can get. Gulati has no vision, if he did Arenas would not even been considered. The state of USSF is in now is because of a lack of vision from it's main head. Gulati needs to go if USSF wants to move forward. I wouldn't object to having Klinsmann replacing Gulati as the USSF president. At least he has a vision and had started implementing it.
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