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RW wants Sonics back in Seattle but now I'm not so sure...

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  • Loved how Wilson was helping to push the city/county powers to work to bring back an NBA franchise to Seattle.

    I was a YUGE Sonics fan back in the day. Through the weird echo of the NBA in the Kingdome, to the raucous great days of Payton/Kemp @ Key Arena (and I think we had to truck down to Tacoma one season even. Man, that sucked) I loved my Sonics.

    So I was stoked about having Wilson and other local sports legends helping out with the "Bring back our Sonics" cause.

    And then I watched an NBA game for the first time in about five years.

    It was horrible! No defense. No low-post players of any skill. It was all just run and pop garbage. And the refs called fouls for every little nothing of a bump. Seems guys could look at someone cross-eyed and the whistle would blow. I can't believe people pay $$$ to watch that crap. A far cry from the NBA basketball of the 80's and 90's that I knew and loved.

    Am I just being a grumpy guy now in his 40's who can't stand this new style of NBA ball? It's a bunch of playground wimps throwing up on three-pointer after another over and over again in between whistles for breathing wrong. It was like those playground games with the fat guy screaming into the microphone that toured the country a while back. (Maybe they still do?) A more "hood" version of the Harlem Globetrotters. ("Hood" as in playground crap ball but without the fear of violence.)

    Seems that's what the NBA has become.

    Garbage. :177692:
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  • I don't watch NBA games often at all, but this rings untrue to me. The game is much better. Big men who can play inside-out, sharper passing, etc.

    In the time that you're talking about, we got to a point where stars would just run iso plays while eight guys stood and watched. I mean, the '80s and early-mid '90s were great, but by the late '90s, the game was all watching a team kinda pass the ball ineffectually for fifteen seconds before a guy like Allen Iverson or Tracy McGrady would get the ball with single digits on the shot clock and go one-on-one with a defender. Half the time, they'd shoot an off-balance fadeaway. Rinse, repeat.
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  • semiahmoo wrote:Loved how Wilson was helping to push the city/county powers to work to bring back an NBA franchise to Seattle.

    I was a YUGE Sonics fan back in the day. Through the weird echo of the NBA in the Kingdome, to the raucous great days of Payton/Kemp @ Key Arena (and I think we had to truck down to Tacoma one season even. Man, that sucked) I loved my Sonics.

    So I was stoked about having Wilson and other local sports legends helping out with the "Bring back our Sonics" cause.

    And then I watched an NBA game for the first time in about five years.

    It was horrible! No defense. No low-post players of any skill. It was all just run and pop garbage. And the refs called fouls for every little nothing of a bump. Seems guys could look at someone cross-eyed and the whistle would blow. I can't believe people pay $$$ to watch that crap. A far cry from the NBA basketball of the 80's and 90's that I knew and loved.

    Am I just being a grumpy guy now in his 40's who can't stand this new style of NBA ball? It's a bunch of playground wimps throwing up on three-pointer after another over and over again in between whistles for breathing wrong. It was like those playground games with the fat guy screaming into the microphone that toured the country a while back. (Maybe they still do?) A more "hood" version of the Harlem Globetrotters. ("Hood" as in playground crap ball but without the fear of violence.)

    Seems that's what the NBA has become.

    Garbage. :177692:
    Agree for the most part.
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  • semiahmoo wrote:Loved how Wilson was helping to push the city/county powers to work to bring back an NBA franchise to Seattle.

    I was a YUGE Sonics fan back in the day. Through the weird echo of the NBA in the Kingdome, to the raucous great days of Payton/Kemp @ Key Arena (and I think we had to truck down to Tacoma one season even. Man, that sucked) I loved my Sonics.

    So I was stoked about having Wilson and other local sports legends helping out with the "Bring back our Sonics" cause.

    And then I watched an NBA game for the first time in about five years.

    It was horrible! No defense. No low-post players of any skill. It was all just run and pop garbage. And the refs called fouls for every little nothing of a bump. Seems guys could look at someone cross-eyed and the whistle would blow. I can't believe people pay $$$ to watch that crap. A far cry from the NBA basketball of the 80's and 90's that I knew and loved.

    Am I just being a grumpy guy now in his 40's who can't stand this new style of NBA ball? It's a bunch of playground wimps throwing up on three-pointer after another over and over again in between whistles for breathing wrong. It was like those playground games with the fat guy screaming into the microphone that toured the country a while back. (Maybe they still do?) A more "hood" version of the Harlem Globetrotters. ("Hood" as in playground crap ball but without the fear of violence.)

    Seems that's what the NBA has become.

    Garbage. :177692:

    This is where I can agree with everything you posted.I want the NHL for Seattle too but it seems like it has to be both or nothing.The thing is I no longer care about the NBA for the reasons in OP and more so for that heist that Stern pulled.I am shocked people pay for the garbage the NBA sells today.I think the real stars of the past have to look at todays game with disgust.They played hard defense,passed,shot from all areas and had real plays to execute.Can you imagine MJ playing in todays game?What his average would be?I have to say 40ppg. Easily
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  • I'm confused by this post.

    Are you not sure about Russell's involvement in the SODO project, or are you not sure you want basketball back?

    Hansen saw that he was losing the fight against all these new Key Arena proposals and groups, so he brought on Russell to provide a spark to his project, that's all that was.

    I still think he's behind the 8 ball now, cause it's crystal clear that the city and mayor want the Key Arena area renovated.
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  • I never heard of the No Bra Association, are there pictures of the members?
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I'm confused by this post.

    Are you not sure about Russell's involvement in the SODO project, or are you not sure you want basketball back?

    Hansen saw that he was losing the fight against all these new Key Arena proposals and groups, so he brought on Russell to provide a spark to his project, that's all that was.

    I still think he's behind the 8 ball now, cause it's crystal clear that the city and mayor want the Key Arena area renovated.



    I think he's just mad at the NBA?

    I don't know... but basketball for me is much better then the Pistons-Knicks era that came out of the glory years.
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  • I really like and dislike the NBA for various reasons. The main problem with the NBA is that nobody really cares about it until the playoffs. I think they could shorten the season to something like 70 games. But time wise, it works well because it starts shortly after the end of March Madness. There is just little to no parody in the NBA. We all know it's going to be Cavs against Warriors. If not that, then Cavs against Spurs. If the Cavs make it to the finals this year, this will be the seventh straight time LeBron has been in the finals.

    Super teams have hurt and helped the NBA. There is nothing more epic than a 7-game series between two super teams. But other than a handful of teams, there are a lot of bad and mediocre teams. A good example is OKC vs GS. Everyone watched that game because it was KD's return to OKC, but GS blew them out. If KD stayed in OKC, that would have been a competitive game.
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  • Hawk-Lock wrote:Super teams have hurt and helped the NBA.


    This x 10.

    Super teams is why the some of the best finals of all time have been in the past 4-5 years. But the downside is literally only 2-3 teams have a chance at winning it all in October.

    Also why everyone's pissed off at coaches resting their stars now, it's the ONLY reason people go to see games in 28 of 31 markets, to see the stars.

    I'm not a huge basketball fan, but I loved it when the Sonics were good........it energized the city, and made for some awesome series come playoff time. So I'd love to have a team back. This is freaking Seattle, one of the biggest most diverse metropolitan cities on the planet, give us a damn team back.
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  • I love the NBA. THe skill level is top notch

    It also helps with a much better broadcast schedule and availability than NHL. Being on big channels such as TNT and with their rotating from ESPN, ABC, TNT and NBA channel makes it available whenever there is nothing else on. NHL really lost my viewership when they went to Versus and later NBCSports - even when interested it is a channel not available when travelling and it gets lost in the guide
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  • I would drop the NBA to 60 games a season, and I would have only division winners guaranteed a playoff spot. I would have those teams rest for a week while teams 4-7 in each conference would play a single elimination tournament, 4 vs. 7 and 5 vs. 6, with the winners of those 2 games facing off for the right to play the top seed in round 2. I would also reduce round 2 to at least best of 5. There's too many games and too many teams in the playoffs.
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  • chris98251 wrote:I never heard of the No Bra Association, are there pictures of the members?


    Yes. But they are not allowed on this site. :cry:
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  • Maulbert wrote:I would drop the NBA to 60 games a season, and I would have only division winners guaranteed a playoff spot. I would have those teams rest for a week while teams 4-7 in each conference would play a single elimination tournament, 4 vs. 7 and 5 vs. 6, with the winners of those 2 games facing off for the right to play the top seed in round 2. I would also reduce round 2 to at least best of 5. There's too many games and too many teams in the playoffs.


    The playoffs is the best thing they have

    I get removing a few games such as maybe 4 games to create some more space in there.

    The second change I would do for both NBA and NHL is taken from some European leagues

    So there are 8 teams that make the playoffs. You split it to the top 4 vs the bottom four. The number 1 team gets to PICK which opponent they want from number 5 through 8, once they have picked the number 2 team gets to PICK from the remaining 3 and so you go

    So top teams can pick their opponent making it more fun and more important to be in the top 4
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  • mikeak wrote:
    Maulbert wrote:I would drop the NBA to 60 games a season, and I would have only division winners guaranteed a playoff spot. I would have those teams rest for a week while teams 4-7 in each conference would play a single elimination tournament, 4 vs. 7 and 5 vs. 6, with the winners of those 2 games facing off for the right to play the top seed in round 2. I would also reduce round 2 to at least best of 5. There's too many games and too many teams in the playoffs.


    The playoffs is the best thing they have

    I get removing a few games such as maybe 4 games to create some more space in there.

    The second change I would do for both NBA and NHL is taken from some European leagues

    So there are 8 teams that make the playoffs. You split it to the top 4 vs the bottom four. The number 1 team gets to PICK which opponent they want from number 5 through 8, once they have picked the number 2 team gets to PICK from the remaining 3 and so you go

    So top teams can pick their opponent making it more fun and more important to be in the top 4


    The thing about picking means the teams don't earn it, and more bad teams make the playoffs, as the 1 and 2 would inevitably pick the worst teams. My main reason for the single elimination tournament to determine the final spot is to generate some excitement and interest in the first round. Everyone says the playoffs are great, but I don't get it. I think the first two rounds suck, with the great teams usually crushing the inferior ones. Also, the playoffs drag on too long. Seriously, they started April 16th and ended June 19th last year. Do the playoffs need to last one third of the length of the season? The point of playing the season is to separate the wheat from the chaff. The NBA doesn't understand this, and that is why the NBA regular season sucks. Who cares about a 38-44 team that's going to be swept? They don't belong in the playoffs. I also wouldn't be against applying this to the NHL.
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  • I actually think the product is on it's way back up. The 3 pointers are a problem, but it's all cyclical. 15-20 years ago, the game sucked because everybody was playing Knicks/Pacers basketball all the time and it was a bunch of grabby, physical, ugly basketball. They had to change the way it was officiated and open things up a little bit. Now it's gone the other way a bit much, but at least teams are starting to share the ball again. I've for the most part seen a bunch of guys playing pretty damn hard just about every night, except for those teams that sit guys. Not sure how you fix it either.

    The biggest problem today is talent. The PG position totally dominates. It really wasn't long ago where you had Kobe, Vince, T-Mac, Bron, Marion, Ray, Roy, Wade, Pierce...a whole bunch of super talented wings that could flat fill it. Nowadays there's like 2. You've got Kawhi, , Durant, and the white dude from Utah and the rest of the scorer sare basically ball dominant PG's. The bigs are pretty worthless for the most part, but you've got guys like Davis and Townes who are possibly more talented than any bigs we have EVER seen.

    It's not perfect, never really has been, but it's been pretty fun to watch and is on an upswing.
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  • Maulbert wrote:
    mikeak wrote:
    Maulbert wrote:I would drop the NBA to 60 games a season, and I would have only division winners guaranteed a playoff spot. I would have those teams rest for a week while teams 4-7 in each conference would play a single elimination tournament, 4 vs. 7 and 5 vs. 6, with the winners of those 2 games facing off for the right to play the top seed in round 2. I would also reduce round 2 to at least best of 5. There's too many games and too many teams in the playoffs.


    The playoffs is the best thing they have

    I get removing a few games such as maybe 4 games to create some more space in there.

    The second change I would do for both NBA and NHL is taken from some European leagues

    So there are 8 teams that make the playoffs. You split it to the top 4 vs the bottom four. The number 1 team gets to PICK which opponent they want from number 5 through 8, once they have picked the number 2 team gets to PICK from the remaining 3 and so you go

    So top teams can pick their opponent making it more fun and more important to be in the top 4


    The thing about picking means the teams don't earn it, and more bad teams make the playoffs, as the 1 and 2 would inevitably pick the worst teams. My main reason for the single elimination tournament to determine the final spot is to generate some excitement and interest in the first round. Everyone says the playoffs are great, but I don't get it. I think the first two rounds suck, with the great teams usually crushing the inferior ones. Also, the playoffs drag on too long. Seriously, they started April 16th and ended June 19th last year. Do the playoffs need to last one third of the length of the season? The point of playing the season is to separate the wheat from the chaff. The NBA doesn't understand this, and that is why the NBA regular season sucks. Who cares about a 38-44 team that's going to be swept? They don't belong in the playoffs. I also wouldn't be against applying this to the NHL.


    It would skew the playoffs a bit more, but lets look at the West right now. Portland had the best / one of the best records in March and are trying to make the 8th spot.

    I have no doubt that if Golden State / Spurs got to pick with the number 1 spot they would NOT pick Portland. They have earned to play the crappiest team. This system change wouldn't revise the number of teams making the playoffs but what it does is reward the number 1 and 2 team more for their efforts doing the season (rest players less) and secondly it makes the 3 and 4 team maybe play more competitive games making for better playoff series from the beginning

    They make so much money from these playoff rounds that there is no way ever they will cut down on the number of games. Any discussion about how to make the playoff better has to start with the assumption that there will not be less games....
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  • mikeak wrote:They make so much money from these playoff rounds that there is no way ever they will cut down on the number of games. Any discussion about how to make the playoff better has to start with the assumption that there will not be less games....


    I never said they were going to do what I said. I said that was what I would do. Over half the NBA makes the playoffs, 16 out of 30. I would like to meat one person who actually thinks that makes for a good product.
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  • Maulbert wrote:
    mikeak wrote:They make so much money from these playoff rounds that there is no way ever they will cut down on the number of games. Any discussion about how to make the playoff better has to start with the assumption that there will not be less games....


    I never said they were going to do what I said. I said that was what I would do. Over half the NBA makes the playoffs, 16 out of 30. I would like to meat one person who actually thinks that makes for a good product.


    I think the owners would agree with you. I'm sure they'd all rather be at the lottery pick event than get stomped by Cleveland or GS in the first round of the playoffs year after year.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Maulbert wrote:
    mikeak wrote:They make so much money from these playoff rounds that there is no way ever they will cut down on the number of games. Any discussion about how to make the playoff better has to start with the assumption that there will not be less games....


    I never said they were going to do what I said. I said that was what I would do. Over half the NBA makes the playoffs, 16 out of 30. I would like to meat one person who actually thinks that makes for a good product.


    I think the owners would agree with you. I'm sure they'd all rather be at the lottery pick event than get stomped by Cleveland or GS in the first round of the playoffs year after year.


    Totally disagree -- the owners make a TON of money from the playoffs. Each one individually would rather have a lottery pick than lose four straight but they much rather have the current playoff format than lose a significant amount of revenue.

    I am in the group that I happen to love playoff time. Between the NBA games and the NHL games there are suddenly a massive amount of games that matters all at once. If one becomes a blowout you switch
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  • mikeak wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Maulbert wrote:
    mikeak wrote:They make so much money from these playoff rounds that there is no way ever they will cut down on the number of games. Any discussion about how to make the playoff better has to start with the assumption that there will not be less games....


    I never said they were going to do what I said. I said that was what I would do. Over half the NBA makes the playoffs, 16 out of 30. I would like to meat one person who actually thinks that makes for a good product.


    I think the owners would agree with you. I'm sure they'd all rather be at the lottery pick event than get stomped by Cleveland or GS in the first round of the playoffs year after year.


    Totally disagree -- the owners make a TON of money from the playoffs. Each one individually would rather have a lottery pick than lose four straight but they much rather have the current playoff format than lose a significant amount of revenue.

    I am in the group that I happen to love playoff time. Between the NBA games and the NHL games there are suddenly a massive amount of games that matters all at once. If one becomes a blowout you switch


    I have no idea what the numbers are, but are they really making that much more money for 8 teams in each conference in the playoffs instead of 6?

    That's 8-14 more games per playoff season, most on a weeknight for the 1 vs 8 seed? Seems like that'd be a drop in the bucket revenue wise compared to how much they make for the regular season and rest of the playoff ticket package.

    I still say every #7 or #8 seed owner would probably rather they have a chance at the lottery picks.
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  • His suggestion was that the whole first round (8 matchups with minimum of 4 games per round and max 7 so 32-56 games) were replaced by a single elimination between 4 teams in each conference so 4 matchups so you are looking at 16-28 games less for the league as a whole.

    And for every year a team would say yes because I am in the 7 or 8 spot you get another year where they are absolutely no because they have the spot below 8 so now those teams just diluted the lottery even more and then years they are in the playoffs they are now facing tougher competition because 7 and 8 aren't playing 1 and 2
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  • Tical21 wrote:I actually think the product is on it's way back up. The 3 pointers are a problem, but it's all cyclical. 15-20 years ago, the game sucked because everybody was playing Knicks/Pacers basketball all the time and it was a bunch of grabby, physical, ugly basketball. They had to change the way it was officiated and open things up a little bit. Now it's gone the other way a bit much, but at least teams are starting to share the ball again. I've for the most part seen a bunch of guys playing pretty damn hard just about every night, except for those teams that sit guys. Not sure how you fix it either.

    The biggest problem today is talent. The PG position totally dominates. It really wasn't long ago where you had Kobe, Vince, T-Mac, Bron, Marion, Ray, Roy, Wade, Pierce...a whole bunch of super talented wings that could flat fill it. Nowadays there's like 2. You've got Kawhi, , Durant, and the white dude from Utah and the rest of the scorer sare basically ball dominant PG's. The bigs are pretty worthless for the most part, but you've got guys like Davis and Townes who are possibly more talented than any bigs we have EVER seen.

    It's not perfect, never really has been, but it's been pretty fun to watch and is on an upswing.


    Great post. Completely agree with most everything you said. The game is much more fun to watch than it was 10-20 years ago. The big difference between then and now are three-pointers, more up-tempo basketball, and less post play.
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  • Playoff time in the NBA is one of the most exciting times as a sports fan for me. I've found the last 6 or 7 years there's been seemingly more close games and exciting finishes than in years past.

    I also enjoy tuning in to a regular season game now and then, whereas for college, I just never watch until March. Golden State's style and energy of play have made the game much more exciting than in the past. Other teams have begun emulating this run and gun, perimeter shooting technique and it's made the game better as a whole.
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  • West TX Hawk wrote:Playoff time in the NBA is one of the most exciting times as a sports fan for me. I've found the last 6 or 7 years there's been seemingly more close games and exciting finishes than in years past.

    I also enjoy tuning in to a regular season game now and then, whereas for college, I just never watch until March. Golden State's style and energy of play have made the game much more exciting than in the past. Other teams have begun emulating this run and gun, perimeter shooting technique and it's made the game better as a whole.
    wish I could say the same but it's too predictable to me. We usually know who will make it to the finals every year between 2-3 teams.


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  • The NBA is in a great spot. Last night SportsCenter basically said this has been the greatest season in terms of offense. I believe it said something along the lines of....

    Most players averaging 20 points or more in one season
    Most teams averaging at least 100 points in a game
    Most triple doubles in an NBA season

    There were more, I just can't remember. The NBA is all about superstars, that is how they market the game. Their are more superstars now then ever it seems like. Speaking of that, just saw this interesting article about baseball. Which is basically the opposite, no superstars.

    http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/1907 ... stars-gone
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  • Hawk-Lock wrote: Speaking of that, just saw this interesting article about baseball. Which is basically the opposite, no superstars.

    http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/1907 ... stars-gone


    Not only does baseball have less superstars, but the one's they do have move around through free agency minimizing their impact on making the game exciting for markets.

    I grew up in the 70's and 80's, and I didn't follow standings or wins, but I'd get excited when certain teams would come to Seattle because I knew 1-2 superstars were on that team, and they stayed on those teams for a decade or longer.

    Also, the game is more foreign, with Latin Americans now making up for 30% of rosters. Nothing against Latin America, but less and less American stars makes it harder to market to American kids.
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  • dopeboy206 wrote:
    West TX Hawk wrote:Playoff time in the NBA is one of the most exciting times as a sports fan for me. I've found the last 6 or 7 years there's been seemingly more close games and exciting finishes than in years past.

    I also enjoy tuning in to a regular season game now and then, whereas for college, I just never watch until March. Golden State's style and energy of play have made the game much more exciting than in the past. Other teams have begun emulating this run and gun, perimeter shooting technique and it's made the game better as a whole.
    wish I could say the same but it's too predictable to me. We usually know who will make it to the finals every year between 2-3 teams.


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    hmm the year after Oklahoma blew a 3-1 lead followed by GS blowing a 3-1 lead the outcome may be viewed as predictable because it did align with what was thought before the season but the path there surely wasn't predictable or give a feeling of predictability

    Baseball will continue to suffer more and more. The viewing population is an aging population and the sport doesn't align at all with the younger generations "need" for action and pace

    Basketball is much better aligned and doesn't become as big of a time commitment
    mikeak
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote: Speaking of that, just saw this interesting article about baseball. Which is basically the opposite, no superstars.

    http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/1907 ... stars-gone


    Not only does baseball have less superstars, but the one's they do have move around through free agency minimizing their impact on making the game exciting for markets.

    I grew up in the 70's and 80's, and I didn't follow standings or wins, but I'd get excited when certain teams would come to Seattle because I knew 1-2 superstars were on that team, and they stayed on those teams for a decade or longer.

    Also, the game is more foreign, with Latin Americans now making up for 30% of rosters. Nothing against Latin America, but less and less American stars makes it harder to market to American kids.


    I'm sure there are some marketing strategies MLB could use to highlight superstars more, but in the end, the sport itself doesn't really play to superstars. Baseball has always been about the sum of its parts. Add LeBron James to any NBA team and they automatically become a playoff team, and likely a title contender. Put Tom Brady on any NFL team and they become a playoff team. Add Mike Trout to any baseball team and they probably only win a few more games. In the NBA, a superstar can shoot the ball 15-20 more times than the next guy. In baseball game, the best player comes up to bat about as many times as the worst guy. Stars can't influence baseball in the same way that they can in the NFL and NBA. Also like you mentioned, it doesn't help that there is such a foreign influence on baseball right now.
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    Hawk-Lock
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  • Hawk-Lock wrote:The NBA is in a great spot. Last night SportsCenter basically said this has been the greatest season in terms of offense. I believe it said something along the lines of....

    Most players averaging 20 points or more in one season
    Most teams averaging at least 100 points in a game
    Most triple doubles in an NBA season

    There were more, I just can't remember. The NBA is all about superstars, that is how they market the game. Their are more superstars now then ever it seems like. Speaking of that, just saw this interesting article about baseball. Which is basically the opposite, no superstars.

    http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/1907 ... stars-gone

    To me those stats must mean it has to be one of worst defensive seasons ever as well.
    I don't see all these superstars you refer to..I don't want to be a stick in the mud but the real superstars are James and four to five others depending on what you think one is.I think your making a lot of money betting on the NBA with no defense being played and 3's raining down to no end..Honestly the game has turned into trash ball for me.
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    IndyHawk
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