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NBA Finals Thread

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NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:56 am
  • NBA Finals start tonight. We've all been waiting for this, everyone knew from the start of the regular season that it would be the Cavs and Warriors meeting in the finals. Should be one of the best finals ever. Arguably 3 of the NBA's top 5 players and 7 of the NBA's top 20 players are playing in this finals.

    Who are you rooting for and who do you think will win? I'm rooting for Cleveland, I've grown to like LeBron James. Warriors are slowly turning into that great team that is easy to dislike. Hopefully it goes 7 games like it did last year.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:14 am
  • Go Warriors...

    Durant was the last of the Sonics. (unless we count Collison).

    I like this rivalry though.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:42 am
  • This is still a thing? Did they take a month off?
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:45 am
  • sdog1981 wrote:This is still a thing? Did they take a month off?


    Damn near, really
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:25 pm
  • I hope Durant's ring burns under the skin of every Chokelahoma Shitty Blunder fan for the next 100 years.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:32 pm
  • I'm rooting for Cleveland. But if i had to lay money down i'd say Golden State in 6.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:36 pm
  • Go Cavs (again), just for the fact that everyone and their brother has jumped on the GS bandwagon.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:26 pm
  • sdog1981 wrote:This is still a thing? Did they take a month off?


    Much better than the lead up to the SB, that is the worst. Two weeks off and all the stupid media stuff. While a week was too long for the NBA, they were set on starting on a Thursday, so if there is a game 7 it would fall on a Sunday.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:08 pm
  • fenderbender123 wrote:Go Cavs (again), just for the fact that everyone and their brother has jumped on the GS bandwagon.


    Really? Golden State has taken a ton of flack since Durant signed.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:10 pm
  • fenderbender123 wrote:Go Cavs (again), just for the fact that everyone and their brother has jumped on the GS bandwagon.


    As opposed to Lebrons bandwagon?

    I actually like Golden State. Fun team to watch. Kind of reminds me of the 80s NBA
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:07 pm
  • I never thought I'd see the day where Kyle Korver would be asked to defend Kevin Durant in the finals... The Cavs did a terrible job with their bench this offseason and will probably get swept because of it.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:52 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:Go Warriors...

    Durant was the last of the Sonics. (unless we count Collison).

    I like this rivalry though.


    If you want to get technical, that last sonics on that roster is Westbrook.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:24 am
  • Drafted by Seattle.. signed by Oklahoma. Never a Sonic. Although.. that picture makes my heart hurt.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:00 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:Drafted by Seattle.. signed by Oklahoma. Never a Sonic. Although.. that picture makes my heart hurt.


    He was a Sonic for a year, the year Bennett gutted the team on their way to 62 losses in order to assure an all time fan apathy about the team to make it easier to move to OKC.

    I don't begrudge Durant at all, I'm glad he bailed on OKC and I hope he wins 5 rings.

    btw, what lasts longer, the time it takes Halley's Comet to complete it's orbit or the NBA playoffs? Cause I feel like it's close.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:44 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Drafted by Seattle.. signed by Oklahoma. Never a Sonic. Although.. that picture makes my heart hurt.


    He was a Sonic for a year, the year Bennett gutted the team on their way to 62 losses in order to assure an all time fan apathy about the team to make it easier to move to OKC.


    No:

    "Westbrook was selected 4th overall in the 2008 NBA draft by the Seattle SuperSonics (which then relocated to Oklahoma City and became the Thunder six days later). He signed with the team on July 5, 2008"
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:48 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Drafted by Seattle.. signed by Oklahoma. Never a Sonic. Although.. that picture makes my heart hurt.


    He was a Sonic for a year, the year Bennett gutted the team on their way to 62 losses in order to assure an all time fan apathy about the team to make it easier to move to OKC.


    No:

    "Westbrook was selected 4th overall in the 2008 NBA draft by the Seattle SuperSonics (which then relocated to Oklahoma City and became the Thunder six days later). He signed with the team on July 5, 2008"


    I thought you guys were talking about Durant.

    Hopefully Westbrook leaves OKC too, then they can take their rightful place as the bottom feeder crap franchise that befits the city and owner for the next century.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:56 am
  • I do not disagree.

    I certainly give Durant a pass. And remember him as a Sonic
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:30 am
  • The scheduling is horrible, game 2 in GS isn't until Sunday. Looks like they will be playing games about every three days, rather than every other day. Only time you need two days is when you go between the two cities.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:50 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:Go Cavs (again), just for the fact that everyone and their brother has jumped on the GS bandwagon.


    As opposed to Lebrons bandwagon?

    I actually like Golden State. Fun team to watch. Kind of reminds me of the 80s NBA


    It's more or less based on certain people I know who are rooting for Golden State....last year it seemed like everyone was rooting for GS because they didn't like Lebron.

    But let's be honest...the main reason I'm rooting against GS, is because of Curry's face. It's just so punchable. I can tell just by looking at his face that he's an annoying piece of shit in real life. Not like a scummy person who commits crimes, but one of those annoying guys who flicked your ear in class and then pretended like he was just sitting there when you turned around, and then looked at you and said "what? Stop looking at me" in front of the whole class while all his buddies laughed at you. I can just tell he was that kind of person by looking at his face.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:48 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:The scheduling is horrible, game 2 in GS isn't until Sunday. Looks like they will be playing games about every three days, rather than every other day. Only time you need two days is when you go between the two cities.


    Thus my Halley's Comet joke......the NBA playoffs are ridiculously long. Especially now that everyone knows it's a foregone conclusion which two teams will be in the finals.

    I had last night's game on for barely the first quarter before I got bored, turned the station and never went back. Watching two teams dunk and layup 200 times cause no one plays any defense anymore is a terrible product.

    I know I'm in the minority cause NBA ratings are through the roof, but it's no bueno for a casual basketball fan like me.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:06 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:The scheduling is horrible, game 2 in GS isn't until Sunday. Looks like they will be playing games about every three days, rather than every other day. Only time you need two days is when you go between the two cities.


    Thus my Halley's Comet joke......the NBA playoffs are ridiculously long. Especially now that everyone knows it's a foregone conclusion which two teams will be in the finals.

    I had last night's game on for barely the first quarter before I got bored, turned the station and never went back. Watching two teams dunk and layup 200 times cause no one plays any defense anymore is a terrible product.

    I know I'm in the minority cause NBA ratings are through the roof, but it's no bueno for a casual basketball fan like me.

    I can understand the product being boring but the complaint about defense is kind of silly ><

    Golden state statistically is one of the best defenses in NBA history and they just held one of the best offenses in NBA history to 25 points under their playoff average.

    I think it's just hard to watch truly dominant teams play ball against inferior opponents and that's always been true in the NBA... I mean shoot even the 1987 Finals, Lakers vs Celtics, statistically the two best teams to ever meet in the finals had two games where the Lakers were on pace for 150 before resting starters... they finished with 141 points and 128 points.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:24 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:The scheduling is horrible, game 2 in GS isn't until Sunday. Looks like they will be playing games about every three days, rather than every other day. Only time you need two days is when you go between the two cities.


    Thus my Halley's Comet joke......the NBA playoffs are ridiculously long. Especially now that everyone knows it's a foregone conclusion which two teams will be in the finals.

    I had last night's game on for barely the first quarter before I got bored, turned the station and never went back. Watching two teams dunk and layup 200 times cause no one plays any defense anymore is a terrible product.

    I know I'm in the minority cause NBA ratings are through the roof, but it's no bueno for a casual basketball fan like me.


    I think the style of play itself is fine. Scoring is back up compared to the 90's when games wouldn't even break 100 points. Your problem with watching the game is probably no different than someone who can't stand watching the NFL for their own reasons (too may penalties, too much stoppage, etc.). As for defense in the NBA, GS is one of the best, although Cleveland is very mediocre on the defensive end of the court. The NBA is fun to watch, but the games have to be close. Too many of these playoff games have been over before halftime.

    The big problem the NBA has is that there are two great teams and then everyone else. It basically makes the regular season really boring. Who cares who does what in 82 games when we all know the two teams that will be in the finals. And it gives little excitement to the first three rounds of the playoffs. The NBA is trying to find ways to keep stars on their original teams, but then you get great players taking pay cuts to join great teams.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:48 am
  • sdog1981 wrote:This is still a thing? Did they take a month off?


    And if the series goes 7 games, it will take 2.5 weeks.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:31 pm
  • 253hawk wrote:
    sdog1981 wrote:This is still a thing? Did they take a month off?


    And if the series goes 7 games, it will take 2.5 weeks.


    It might not go 4 the way the Warriors are playing
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:29 am
  • fenderbender123 wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:Go Cavs (again), just for the fact that everyone and their brother has jumped on the GS bandwagon.


    As opposed to Lebrons bandwagon?

    I actually like Golden State. Fun team to watch. Kind of reminds me of the 80s NBA


    It's more or less based on certain people I know who are rooting for Golden State....last year it seemed like everyone was rooting for GS because they didn't like Lebron.

    But let's be honest...the main reason I'm rooting against GS, is because of Curry's face. It's just so punchable. I can tell just by looking at his face that he's an annoying piece of shit in real life. Not like a scummy person who commits crimes, but one of those annoying guys who flicked your ear in class and then pretended like he was just sitting there when you turned around, and then looked at you and said "what? Stop looking at me" in front of the whole class while all his buddies laughed at you. I can just tell he was that kind of person by looking at his face.


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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:06 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:It might not go 4 the way the Warriors are playing


    Fine by me. The sooner Durant wins a ring (and hopefully MVP) in 16-0 sweeping fashion in the face of OKC Team Stealer fans, the better.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:56 am
  • Im a big Warriors fan. Although I can say with pride I was on their bandwagon way before most. I have been a fan since they drafted my boy Klay. They were the plucky underdogs with Mark Jackson as coach, they turned into the dominant champion, now after signing durrant they've gone full circle and people hate on them.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:05 pm
  • gowazzu02 wrote:I have been a fan since they drafted my boy Klay. T


    Are you from MN?
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:18 pm
  • gowazzu02 wrote:Im a big Warriors fan. Although I can say with pride I was on their bandwagon way before most. I have been a fan since they drafted my boy Klay. They were the plucky underdogs with Mark Jackson as coach, they turned into the dominant champion, now after signing durrant they've gone full circle and people hate on them.


    The Warriors get a lot of unwarranted hate. People forget that their entire team was built from within. There are actually a lot of similarities between them and how our SB Seahawks were built. Their entire core other than Durant was drafted. Plenty of teams could have drafted Curry, Klay or Draymond. Their GM also did a great job of getting their stars signed beforethe cap increased. Curry is only making $11M now, when he gets his new deal next season, he will likely be getting about $30M a year. This is likely the best they will ever be, once guys have to sign new contracts, they will have to let players walk, whether that be Iguodala or maybe even Klay. I always stood by the thought that the best Seahawks team was that SB team because of all the cheap rookie contracts.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:21 pm
  • Draymond Green gets two technical fouls and he is still playing. Apparently they are now saying the first tech was on Kerr. The NBA will have some explaining to do after this game.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:29 pm
  • If that game wasn't a clear-cut case of reffing favoritism (even more so than game 3) to stretch the series out so that money isn't left on the table, I don't know what is. Absolutely ridiculous.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:55 pm
  • Shooting 1000% from 3 makes the refs irrelevant
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:23 am
  • 253hawk wrote:If that game wasn't a clear-cut case of reffing favoritism (even more so than game 3) to stretch the series out so that money isn't left on the table, I don't know what is. Absolutely ridiculous.


    I didn't really see it that way. If that was the case, they would have thrown out Green. The "ref fixing" thing in the NBA is completely overblown IMO. If anything, they should have fixed game 3 to make game 4 more interesting.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:51 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:
    253hawk wrote:If that game wasn't a clear-cut case of reffing favoritism (even more so than game 3) to stretch the series out so that money isn't left on the table, I don't know what is. Absolutely ridiculous.


    I didn't really see it that way. If that was the case, they would have thrown out Green. The "ref fixing" thing in the NBA is completely overblown IMO. If anything, they should have fixed game 3 to make game 4 more interesting.


    A flagrant on Love for getting Durant in the head trying to block a shot, but nothing for Zaza swinging below the belt. Complete reffing bias towards the Cavs.

    Some calls get missed, some calls are made to freely. That's just the way the game goes.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:48 pm
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:
    253hawk wrote:If that game wasn't a clear-cut case of reffing favoritism (even more so than game 3) to stretch the series out so that money isn't left on the table, I don't know what is. Absolutely ridiculous.


    I didn't really see it that way. If that was the case, they would have thrown out Green. The "ref fixing" thing in the NBA is completely overblown IMO. If anything, they should have fixed game 3 to make game 4 more interesting.


    Did you miss the obvious backcourt violation by Irving? I mean, there is no other possible explanation for it. He's completely isolated and the ref is RIGHT THERE. Unless the photons that are bouncing off Klay's eyeballs knocked the ball away...

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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:18 pm
  • 253hawk wrote:
    Hawk-Lock wrote:
    253hawk wrote:If that game wasn't a clear-cut case of reffing favoritism (even more so than game 3) to stretch the series out so that money isn't left on the table, I don't know what is. Absolutely ridiculous.


    I didn't really see it that way. If that was the case, they would have thrown out Green. The "ref fixing" thing in the NBA is completely overblown IMO. If anything, they should have fixed game 3 to make game 4 more interesting.


    Did you miss the obvious backcourt violation by Irving? I mean, there is no other possible explanation for it. He's completely isolated and the ref is RIGHT THERE. Unless the photons that are bouncing off Klay's eyeballs knocked the ball away...

    https://streamable.com/ysiat


    Some calls get missed, some calls are made to freely. That's just the way the game goes. I saw a few plays after Kevin's flagrant where a golden state player made contact with a Cavilers players head that didn't get called either. It happens.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:59 pm
  • Doesn't really matter to me as the NBA died for me in 2008,
    but I'm glad GS won for 2 reasons, Durant got his ring and it wasn't with OKC zombie sonics.

    OKC fans and Clay Clay have to have a lot of "bitter beer face" going on right now! LMAO!
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:01 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:Doesn't really matter to me as the NBA died for me in 2008,
    but I'm glad GS won for 2 reasons, Durant got his ring and it wasn't with OKC zombie sonics.

    OKC fans and Clay Clay have to have a lot of "bitter beer face" going on right now! LMAO!


    :ditto:
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:04 pm
  • KD... what a player.

    Lebron too. Gets a lot of shit for not being MJ. I watched the MJ era and he's still the best for me. But Lebron is right there.

    Love this rivalry.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:54 am
  • So salty, love it.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:49 am
  • Oh no, one of your star players left and won a championship somewhere else. That's so much worse than having your team stolen and becoming a conference powerhouse while every other fan in the league taunts you about it every single year.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:32 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:KD... what a player.

    Lebron too. Gets a lot of shit for not being MJ. I watched the MJ era and he's still the best for me. But Lebron is right there.

    Love this rivalry.


    Grew up idolizing Jordan but to me LeBron is the just the better all around player and who I would call the greatest of all time. People get romanticized by Jordan because we grew up with him but I still give a slight nod to James. Regardless its a fun debate and just glad I got a chance to watch both.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:43 pm
  • austinslater25 wrote:
    Grew up idolizing Jordan but to me LeBron is the just the better all around player and who I would call the greatest of all time. People get romanticized by Jordan because we grew up with him but I still give a slight nod to James. Regardless its a fun debate and just glad I got a chance to watch both.


    I agree.

    If you're comparing the two players in a vacuum, only one player revolutionized the sport, James. He can literally play all five positions on the floor, sometimes rotating from one position to the other in the same game.

    Yes Jordan won six rings, but he also had a far superior coach and supporting cast. Can't hold that against Lebron.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:41 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    austinslater25 wrote:
    Grew up idolizing Jordan but to me LeBron is the just the better all around player and who I would call the greatest of all time. People get romanticized by Jordan because we grew up with him but I still give a slight nod to James. Regardless its a fun debate and just glad I got a chance to watch both.


    I agree.

    If you're comparing the two players in a vacuum, only one player revolutionized the sport, James. He can literally play all five positions on the floor, sometimes rotating from one position to the other in the same game.

    Yes Jordan won six rings, but he also had a far superior coach and supporting cast. Can't hold that against Lebron.

    You forget there was Magic who played all 5 and did all well in his prime.
    Lebron is great in his era which is not MJ's era or Magic's and that is obvious.
    The game these days with the soft D and 3 point shootouts is just nothing to me.
    You say MJ had a far superior coach/cast?He would have won with Doug Collins.
    The cast he had for the first Three Peat and second is Pippen The others were not the same players.
    You look at the Cavs/GS they have 3 superstars so I don't see how you can use that.
    The one fact you will find is Jordan/Pippen were named on the all defensive team multiple times.
    I watched most of the Bulls games for the last 10 years of MJ's time.
    There is nobody that I have seen that comes close to him when it came to winning.
    He had the ability to channel his will on others on the team to win.
    No matter who they try to replace him with.
    You will never see the likes of him again.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:33 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    austinslater25 wrote:
    Grew up idolizing Jordan but to me LeBron is the just the better all around player and who I would call the greatest of all time. People get romanticized by Jordan because we grew up with him but I still give a slight nod to James. Regardless its a fun debate and just glad I got a chance to watch both.


    I agree.

    If you're comparing the two players in a vacuum, only one player revolutionized the sport, James. He can literally play all five positions on the floor, sometimes rotating from one position to the other in the same game.

    Yes Jordan won six rings, but he also had a far superior coach and supporting cast. Can't hold that against Lebron.


    I disagree with this... and I'm not sure James "revolutionized" the NBA. He has certainly expanded the capabilities of big men.

    Jordan had a far superior coach. I don't know about a far superior supporting cast (outside the 72 win season). Lebron is also playing in a far softer league than Jordan.

    James is a hell of an offensive player. He's not putting up these numbers is the Jordan-era NBA. Austin says we may "romanticize" Jordan. I think we also forget just how much more competitive the league was when he was playing in it. This, to me, is the testament to Jordan's legacy and why the debate isn't much of one, as much as I think James is a fantastic player.

    In his 6 NBA finals, Jordan beat the likes of Lakers with Magic, the Suns with Barkley/Johnson/Majerle, the Blazers with Drexler/Porter/Robinson, the Sonics with Kemp/Payton/McMillan, the Jazz (back to back) with Malone/Stockton/Hornacek while getting through deep Knicks, Pistons and Pacers teams regularly to get there, or the loaded teams in the Western Conference. Let's also not forget the legends that coached those opposing teams.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:13 am
  • I just think in a vacuum James is the better all around player. He's taller, about 50 pounds heavier and can do things Jordan just couldn't do....James is a physical freak that we've never seen before. He can guard all 5 positions at an all NBA defensive level from the center to the point guard. So while Jordan was a fantastic defensive player I would give a slight nod to LeBron's versatility. He's also the better passer and rebounder. I would argue that he is a more well rounded offensive player too and actually has a higher shooting percentage from all over the court.

    It is hard to argue Jordan's competitive spirit and desire to win. I will say I think Lebron would of destroyed that era. He's bigger then most big men outside of the centers of that era. He's literally bigger than Barkley was and can do it while playing like a point guard. He would of been unstoppable in that era regardless of how hard they played because he is just so much bigger, faster and stronger then the biggest players of that era.

    I do think a very good argument can be made for each player and its hard to leave the realm of subjectivity for everyone involved. I idolized Jordan growing up and it took me a while to admit to myself that James is better but the more I watched the harder it was to convince myself otherwise. Plus when Sarge and I come together on a topic then by default we're right. I still love you guys either way. :shock:
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:04 pm
  • austinslater25 wrote: I will say I think Lebron would of destroyed that era. He's bigger then most big men outside of the centers of that era. He's literally bigger than Barkley was and can do it while playing like a point guard. He would of been unstoppable in that era regardless of how hard they played because he is just so much bigger, faster and stronger then the biggest players of that era.


    He is bigger than most individual players, but he's not played in an era that focused on defensive tactics to win games over this run and gun (where the defense of its superstars is often measured if they were within eye sight of their opponent). He doesn't encounter traps, handchecks, doubles and a big sprawling center protecting the lane. Lebron himself is a fairly suspect defender.

    Lebron benefits highly from coming into and through the league when its focus has shifted away from the 88-84 point games of the Jordan era. He's literally played in the softest era of the NBA since the late 70s. He has excelled, as he should with his size, speed and skillset.

    However, I do not think he is nearly the successful player he is now playing in the Jordan era. He's not going to 8 Finals. He's not averaging triple doubles and just shoving players out of the way. I don't care of he's bigger than Barkley. He's never had to play against that type of player, and their were dozens of them in that era. He get Draymond Green.

    I like this iteration of the NBA. Its fun to watch. It does not share the same drama as the 80s/90s, when points were at an absolute premium, the coaches were of the highest quality and the league was deep with 8-10 teams every year who could play for a championship.

    Lebron is awesome. No doubt. But it's a much bigger jump to assume his talents translate to the same success in the Jordan era. That's why Jordan is almost unanimously considered the greatest. It's not romanticizing. Anyone that remembers watching the NBA in that era remember how physical the play was, how elaborate and stout the defending was and how immensely more deep the league was in talent. Jordan still went 6-0 in the finals.

    anyways.. i'm no NBA expert.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:24 am
  • Lebron would absolutely steamroll players in that era. I don't think it would take long for an elite athlete of that size to use it to his advantage. I honestly held your opinion until I went back and watched a ton of highlights from that era. To be honest I think every sport is hostage to this. Athletes just get bigger, stronger, faster and the training is so much better. NBA players didn't work out because they feared it would hurt their shots. Take the dunk on Durant where everyone complained it would of been a crucial early 3rd foul. Lebron got hammered and still went right through Durant and dunked on him. Physicality is the one area(which is what tough, hands on defense plays into) I think Lebron would shine.

    While I think both players would shine in each era I would guess that LeBron would have an easier time doing so. The fun thing about these debates is that we will never really know. I challenged a buddy to this. Watch a highlight video of Jordan and then watch one of Lebron. It was interesting to watch and compare the two eras, players etc.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:14 am
  • He's bigger and faster than players from any era, Austin. I'm not sure I see the point in that comparison. The difference here is that the competitive nature of the two era's is starkly different. If you do go back and watch highlights of the past, it's also important to add some context. The two leagues cannot exist in the same vacuum, as you put it.

    Jordan era NBA was far more defensive, with an insistence on making every point difficult to get. Teams were far better coached and their were multiple superstars on many teams throughout the league. Karl Malone was 6'9", the same size as Lebron James. Who in the current NBA fits that mold at that level? Draymond Green (6' 7")? You had true centers like Hakeem, Robinson, and Ewing patrolling the paint, big power forwards the same size as Lebron banging the low post, point guards taking hits to set up pick and rolls, slow offenses forced into half court sets. Lebron's not walking around a perimeter defender and than rolling into the paint for uncontested dunks in that era. And is he going to defend the paint when his opposite number backs him down? Will he roll off (he sure as hell didnt in this series) when the ball kicks out? Can he get his points while putting in the required defensive shifts players of that era did? Remember, Jordan was a perennial defensive first teamer.

    Lebron era NBA clearly shies away from the defensive nature of the Jordan era, actually placing rules down to prevent defenses from controlling games and allowing offensive players to excel. There have been maybe 3-4 teams each year "capable" of winning a title, with it rarely actually being 4. They want players to score and Lebron easily takes advantage of that.

    Lebron would be an all star in the Jordan era. He would be an occasional MVP candidate. His averages would be much lower than they are now, his defense would be an issue and I don't see him coming near Jordan's scoring averages, defensive awards and titles.

    That's the bigger difference. Yes, Lebron could excel in that era. Of course he could, he's an excellent player. But he's not the best player in that league year in, year out and I don't think anyone is suggesting he's in the conversation for best player of all time. This isn't a love for Jordan, this is recognizing the stark difference in the two leagues and appreciating just how much harder Jordan had to play to match the numbers Lebron gets just by strolling by the likes of Clay Thomas. Imagine Lebron matching up with the late 80s Pistons. He's not getting a triple double in a game where the winner averages 105 points (which is 10 points less than the loser averaged in this series.)

    In the theory of Malcolm Gladwell's Tipping Point, Lebron was extremely fortunate, whereas the Malones, Ewings, etc. can only dwell on the what ifs.
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Re: NBA Finals Thread
Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:53 am
  • No one is suggesting he's in the conversation for the best player of all time? That has been the topic of discussion on every major debate show, sportscenter segment and the I've personally heard multiple players asked about from Jordans era from Pippen(who says Lebron is better for what its worth), Barkley, Shaq to multiple others. Nick Wright of Foxsports actually lays out a fantastic argument for why James is the great player of all time regardless of what he does moving forward. I personally think Lebron will finish as the greatest of all time but he needs to do some things to cement that.

    I think you're overstating the parity form that era. I would argue that they only had a handful of competitive teams in that ere too with a handful of teams taking turns making it to the finals.

    In regards to the differences of the leagues I do sort of see what you're saying and Lebron might have a tougher time getting a triple double but I still think he dominates as well as anyone. Even if I concede that his numbers dip(which I don't really agree with) He would still put up better all around numbers than anyone else would. I think calling him an occasional mvp candidate is laughable. What part of his game would make him much worse in that era? You're assuming he couldn't adapt and play like everyone else had to. I argue his physical traits alone would make that transition very easy.

    Just because the league plays a different style, I don't think its fair to use that against Lebron or assume he couldn't do well in a more physical game. I'm honestly surprised you're using that argument as most people, even in the pro Jordan camp, tend to think the opposite and see that as the area he would have the least problems dealing with.

    I'm also of the opinion that a guy like Durant would be just as good in that era as well. Throw in Westbrook too. Stockton trying to cover Lebron or Westbrook at the top of the key or wherever they decide to take him is almost unfair.

    Have I chipped away at your beliefs yet? :D
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