Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...

Discuss any and all sports-related topics. From the College Sports to Baseball and everything in between. LANGUAGE RATING: PG-13
Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:51 pm
  • After these trades these last few weeks....what’s our farm system ranked now. I know we were second to last before
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:02 pm
  • Only having to pay $20 million of the contract is pretty amazing.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:14 pm
  • Here’s an article that breaks down the author’s op why the M’s may have really missed the mark in cashing in on Díaz. https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/12/1 ... diaz-trade

    The fact expensive Leake has been linked with Segura leads credence to the argument this was all ownership mandated to save money instead of truly maximizing full rebuild talent return. Was losing out on getting 4-5 prospects the way the Braves got for Kimbrel, worth saving only appx 1/2 of Cano’s deal? Is this really a rebuild or just an ownership direction to strip payroll with no intention of signing big FAs in 3 years? I’m glad we got rid of Cano and I like Kelinic and Dunn but perhaps we could’ve done even better.
    Last edited by West TX Hawk on Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:16 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:Guys over at Lookout Landing really like the 3 Mets prospects being considered in the deal, FWIW

    I really really like the #3 prospect the 19 year old outfielder, and the #4 prospect the pitcher. Even if the rest of the 3 just turn out to be thrown ins, I think the M’s are getting a good haul.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:28 pm
  • West TX Hawk wrote:Here’s an article that breaks down the author’s op why the M’s may have really missed the mark in cashing in on Díaz. https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/12/1 ... diaz-trade

    The fact expensive Leake has been linked with Segura leads credence to the argument this was all ownership mandated to save money instead of truly maximizing full rebuild talent return. Was losing out on getting 4-5 prospects the way the Padres got for Kimbrel, worth saving only appx 1/2 of Cano’s deal? Is this really a rebuild or just an ownership direction to strip payroll with no intention of signing big FAs in 3 years? I’m glad we got rid of Cano and I like Kelinic and Dunn but perhaps we could’ve done even better.

    I’m the rare breed that thinks that a closers value is SEVERELY over-valued.
    I think the trade the M’s blew was not getting enough from the yanks for Pax.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:37 am
  • West TX Hawk wrote:Here’s an article that breaks down the author’s op why the M’s may have really missed the mark in cashing in on Díaz. https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2018/12/1 ... diaz-trade

    The fact expensive Leake has been linked with Segura leads credence to the argument this was all ownership mandated to save money instead of truly maximizing full rebuild talent return. Was losing out on getting 4-5 prospects the way the Braves got for Kimbrel, worth saving only appx 1/2 of Cano’s deal? Is this really a rebuild or just an ownership direction to strip payroll with no intention of signing big FAs in 3 years? I’m glad we got rid of Cano and I like Kelinic and Dunn but perhaps we could’ve done even better.


    If you reak this trade up into two it looks better:

    Diaz for Kelenic, Dunn and Bautista isnt a steal, but 2 top 100 prospects is solid return for a relief pitcher
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:49 am
  • M's need to keep unloading, at this point I don't see why you don't get rid of everybody.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:58 am
  • getnasty wrote:M's need to keep unloading, at this point I don't see why you don't get rid of everybody.


    Sounds like Segura, Healy (maybe) and Leake are next.

    Hopefully Seager, for whatever you can get.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:17 am
  • Trade Haniger for 5 prospects
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:27 am
  • I won’t be happy with 100 mil payroll. Spend money.
    Last edited by Uncle Si on Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:52 am
  • 425HawkSpark wrote:I won’t be happy with 100 mil payroll. Spend money.


    I'm fine with it for a couple of years but when it's time to spend then let's spend.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:56 pm
  • 425HawkSpark wrote:Trade Haniger for 5 prospects

    You don’t trade him at this point unless you get a deal you cannot refuse. Another great year and his value goes up even more!

    5 prospects don’t mean anything if they all suck. I get the quantity angle but more important is the quality you’d be getting back.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:16 pm
  • I hope they keep Segura and Haniger, I don't see the point in completely starting a clean slate. Segura is an elite shortstop....
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:51 pm

Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:00 pm
  • Segura for Crawford seems like nothing in return. For some one of segura production. He’s not Felix for crying aloud.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:02 am
  • Carlos Santana and his 40 mil/2 years is also coming to us in the Philly deal to offset some of Segura's 60 mil. There should be some additional prospects coming to us to be announced tomorrow per Divish.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seattl ... s/%3famp=1
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:01 am


  • And it might be true. But why should I believe anything anyone has to say?

    I mean, this past July, Jerry Dipoto and Scott Servais were both given contract extensions, being rewarded for a job well done when the job itself wasn’t complete.

    Just look at the statement from team president Kevin Mather: “Jerry arrived here two and a half years ago with a specific plan for our franchise. He has successfully executed that plan...”

    Just five months later, that same GM is blowing it all up. They’re admitting in front of all of us that that “specific plan” failed. Sure, they had a more successful team, but didn’t even reach the playoffs. So now they’re going a completely different direction?

    Two weeks ago, Dipoto called 2019 a year “we step back, hoping to take two (steps) forward.” Which means they’re waiving the white flag for next year and probably the next two seasons in the hopes - the HOPES – that they can build something the right way.

    I’m sorry, but I’ve seen this story before. Maybe not a total burn-it-all-down-build-it-back-up plan, but the “watch this group grow” around Dustin Ackley and Justin Smoak plan. The Mariners Fan Fest specifically built around “The Big Three,” Hultzen and Paxton and Walker, and Jesus Montero one year later.

    You might be excited about getting Jarred Kelenic, but a reminder that he’s just 19 years old. A reminder that the Mariners’ track record of developing young prospects is significantly below the Mendoza line. In fact, who else have they developed in the recent past, aside from Kyle Seager and Edwin Diaz?

    To me, it’s a different regime with the same old rhetoric. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me six, seven, eight times in 18 years? Shame on me – shame on all of us.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:39 am
  • Phillies fans seem thrilled by the trade. Pretty openly hate Santana and Crawford is very raw. The prospects they get will help measure this trade because right now, Segura was traded for nothing, in his prime.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:47 am
  • Its not like he can say "tearing it down... what do you guys want?"

    The Paxton trade was underwhelming, but still very good prospects. The Colome trade was very good. Zunino trade also good.

    Diaz for three good players also a solid return. Cano for Bruce saves money, gives the team a vet they can trade at the deadline.

    Segura for Crawford on its own is a good deal if the team is rebuilding. They get Santana, who like Bruce, can net something later on. Crawford is far more than "raw" and has the potential to streak by Segura's ceiling. He got hurt last year in his call up so numbers are low. Sounds like Gamel might be the vet going to philly as well to net that prospect.

    These arent flashy deals. But the Ms are now a mid 70s win team rather than mid 80s with millions in salary saved, a mess of talented players and flexibility to continue building that core.

    This is all about 2020-21... and its not a terrible start. Hernandez will be off the books. Seager will be gone and there will be both lots of cash and lots of good young players. Houston just did this. Milwaukee as well. Oakland every 5 years

    The team they fielded last year was not going to pass Houston and would struggle to keep up with Oakland. Thos had to happen.

    Yes they are giving up on 2019 for the most part. But i like that the team has potential to remain relevant while being patient for a year.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:25 am
  • What an few weeks it has been.

    It's so hard to measure MLB trades because nobody knows what these prospects will become. Everyone is going to have a different grade for the trade because everyone see's the prospects differently. You are either high on them or you aren't. Some scouts called Sheffield a reliever, some think he's an ace. I see some people saying JP Crawford can become Jean Segura, others think he probably tops out as a utility infielder.

    Bottom line is we are rebuilding and getting younger. We are allowing us to have a chance in a couple seasons. Hopefully some of these guys pan out.

    I wasn't crazy about the Pax trade, but I get it. We probably could have gotten more for him if we waited til the deadline when teams always unload for a big time pitcher, but who knows if Pax would even be healthy by then.

    The Colome trade for the catcher sounds great. He seems like the opposite of Zunino, not a lot of power but makes a lot of contact.

    I really like the Cano and Diaz deal, probably gets my best grade of all the trades this off season. We were able to dump Cano's contract and only pay them $20 mill, I was expecting us to pay about half his remaining contract. Big win. Diaz fetched us two really nice prospects, one who could be a 5 tool player. Sure we had to bring on some contracts, but they will all be off the books by the time we want to compete. Diaz is great, but his value will likely never be higher than it is. We all know relievers can be great one year and crap the next. Lets not act like Diaz has been lights out every season, he was great his rookie season and not so great his next season.

    This team is going to be pretty wild to watch next season because I feel like it isn't going to have a ton of purpose. I don't think Dipoto will care much who takes the field, he is completely looking ahead to the future. The opening day roster won't have many guys who will be on the team in a couple years. I think to say we will be a mid 70's win team is pushing it. This team is likely going to be awful, and I'm fine with that. In sports it is better to be awful than mediocre.

    I'm just excited we aren't going to see the same mid 80's win team. The rebuild may fail, but at least we are doing it the smart way.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:42 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:Its not like he can say "tearing it down... what do you guys want?"

    The Paxton trade was underwhelming, but still very good prospects. The Colome trade was very good. Zunino trade also good.

    Diaz for three good players also a solid return. Cano for Bruce saves money, gives the team a vet they can trade at the deadline.

    Segura for Crawford on its own is a good deal if the team is rebuilding. They get Santana, who like Bruce, can net something later on. Crawford is far more than "raw" and has the potential to streak by Segura's ceiling. He got hurt last year in his call up so numbers are low. Sounds like Gamel might be the vet going to philly as well to net that prospect.

    These arent flashy deals. But the Ms are now a mid 70s win team rather than mid 80s with millions in salary saved, a mess of talented players and flexibility to continue building that core.

    This is all about 2020-21... and its not a terrible start. Hernandez will be off the books. Seager will be gone and there will be both lots of cash and lots of good young players. Houston just did this. Milwaukee as well. Oakland every 5 years

    The team they fielded last year was not going to pass Houston and would struggle to keep up with Oakland. Thos had to happen.

    Yes they are giving up on 2019 for the most part. But i like that the team has potential to remain relevant while being patient for a year.


    Excellent post.

    It's a big if but, IF, guys like Bruce and Santana have decent starts these trades could go from solid to A+ deals for the Mariners. The one complaint I have is with the Cano/Diaz deal. I would have preferred that being done separate and going after a top 25 prospect with Diaz rather than guys that are ranked around 60th. I feel like they got talked into taking a hit on the quality of prospect because of packaging Cano in the deal. Diaz, if dealt by himself, should have gotten you a top 25 maybe top 15 prospect. They got more guys (quantity) going with the Mets trade but personally I'd rather have quality over quantity in these circumstances (2 year quick tear down and rebuild). If they were planning to go the full 5-7 year complete rebuild then yeah give me quantity and younger guys. However, in this sort of rebuild you're really going to need to hit on a lot of these prospects you're bringing in if you really plan to compete in 2021, so you need players closer to "sure things" rather than lottery tickets.

    All in all I'm happy they decided not to hold onto Diaz as "untouchable". It just makes zero sense to rebuild but refuse to trade away your biggest trade chips. Doing that you're just completely wasting a talented players best years and just hoping that your rebuild stays on the schedule you planned and you don't end up simply losing those guys to free agency anyways before you're ready to compete. I expect Haniger to be dealt at some point too, and for a huge haul.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:44 pm
  • I’m still disappointed Seager and Felix are still here.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:48 pm
  • DJrmb wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Its not like he can say "tearing it down... what do you guys want?"

    The Paxton trade was underwhelming, but still very good prospects. The Colome trade was very good. Zunino trade also good.

    Diaz for three good players also a solid return. Cano for Bruce saves money, gives the team a vet they can trade at the deadline.

    Segura for Crawford on its own is a good deal if the team is rebuilding. They get Santana, who like Bruce, can net something later on. Crawford is far more than "raw" and has the potential to streak by Segura's ceiling. He got hurt last year in his call up so numbers are low. Sounds like Gamel might be the vet going to philly as well to net that prospect.

    These arent flashy deals. But the Ms are now a mid 70s win team rather than mid 80s with millions in salary saved, a mess of talented players and flexibility to continue building that core.

    This is all about 2020-21... and its not a terrible start. Hernandez will be off the books. Seager will be gone and there will be both lots of cash and lots of good young players. Houston just did this. Milwaukee as well. Oakland every 5 years

    The team they fielded last year was not going to pass Houston and would struggle to keep up with Oakland. Thos had to happen.

    Yes they are giving up on 2019 for the most part. But i like that the team has potential to remain relevant while being patient for a year.


    Excellent post.

    It's a big if but, IF, guys like Bruce and Santana have decent starts these trades could go from solid to A+ deals for the Mariners. The one complaint I have is with the Cano/Diaz deal. I would have preferred that being done separate and going after a top 25 prospect with Diaz rather than guys that are ranked around 60th. I feel like they got talked into taking a hit on the quality of prospect because of packaging Cano in the deal. Diaz, if dealt by himself, should have gotten you a top 25 maybe top 15 prospect. They got more guys (quantity) going with the Mets trade but personally I'd rather have quality over quantity in these circumstances (2 year quick tear down and rebuild). If they were planning to go the full 5-7 year complete rebuild then yeah give me quantity and younger guys. However, in this sort of rebuild you're really going to need to hit on a lot of these prospects you're bringing in if you really plan to compete in 2021, so you need players closer to "sure things" rather than lottery tickets.

    All in all I'm happy they decided not to hold onto Diaz as "untouchable". It just makes zero sense to rebuild but refuse to trade away your biggest trade chips. Doing that you're just completely wasting a talented players best years and just hoping that your rebuild stays on the schedule you planned and you don't end up simply losing those guys to free agency anyways before you're ready to compete. I expect Haniger to be dealt at some point too, and for a huge haul.


    If it takes you 7 years to rebuild a team, you are doing it wrong and have no business running a baseball team. If you do it right it’s a 3-5 year process, 5 years is the maximum it should take you.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:00 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote:I’m still disappointed Seager and Felix are still here.

    I like Seagar, but if they try another season of that lame-ass King's Court, I swear I'll hurl. Felix in no way deserves that kind of support any more.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:25 pm
  • THey might as well just keep Felix.. he has nothing left and nothing that would return any value. THe teams not going anywhere, just keep him, let him retire as the greatest Mariner pitcher ever.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:35 pm
  • Sports Hernia wrote: If it takes you 7 years to rebuild a team, you are doing it wrong and have no business running a baseball team. If you do it right it’s a 3-5 year process, 5 years is the maximum it should take you.


    That's not exclusively true. It depends on what kind of rebuild you're doing. If you're going the long route (like Houston did) and stocking up on 18 and 19 year olds (sometimes even 16 year old international signings) hoping to bring up a few super stars all together then it's going to take a lot longer than 2-3 years. The Astro's started their rebuild in 2010, they won their WS in 2017. You are entitled to your own opinion, but I don't think "they did it wrong".
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:43 pm
  • The rebuild will be at least 4 years. Jerry can claim 2 year retooling all he wants, but this is a lengthy process. Took the Cubs 5 years to make the playoffs, 6 to win it all, Astros about the same. Meanwhile 1/3 of the league is copycatting trying to emulate their success-only a few will succeed, but if we at least get to the Brewers and Braves level by '22 or '23 then perhaps it will have worked.

    Regarding Seager, he will be gone soon but the only way to dump his horrid contract is to link him with Haniger, our last good asset. As for Felix, release him and eat the 27 mil-in a rebuild you need your prospects to get as many non-pressure innings and at bats. Felix would be wasting a spot for a young, close to major league ready SP we either have now or may acquire in the next few weeks.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:59 pm
  • West TX Hawk wrote:The rebuild will be at least 4 years. Jerry can claim 2 year retooling all he wants, but this is a lengthy process. Took the Cubs 5 years to make the playoffs, 6 to win it all, Astros about the same. Meanwhile 1/3 of the league is copycatting trying to emulate their success-only a few will succeed, but if we at least get to the Brewers and Braves level by '22 or '23 then perhaps it will have worked.

    Regarding Seager, he will be gone soon but the only way to dump his horrid contract is to link him with Haniger, our last good asset. As for Felix, release him and eat the 27 mil-in a rebuild you need your prospects to get as many non-pressure innings and at bats. Felix would be wasting a spot for a young, close to major league ready SP we either have now or may acquire in the next few weeks.



    Seager and felix will be gone by next year at the absolute latest.

    The difference between 2 and 4 years will be free agents. The point of all this is less (from what ive read) to build a young team (like the Braves or Astros) and more to free up money for a free agent haul in '20 to couple with the emerging youngsters.

    Get both right and the team could be vying for 90+ wins within 2 years. As is, the team can win 75. Its not THAT far to go
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:04 pm
  • Well the early idea was a 2 year rebuild, that was with keeping a lot of the guys that are already gone. Now this looks more like a long term rebuild, which I'm fine with. Honestly, I could care less if the team sucks or not. They are never good, so it's not like some huge disappointment when they miss out on the playoffs. We are all used to them putting a garbage product on the field.

    If we can deal Haniger, go ahead and do it. Someone will give up a lot for him because of the type of player he is and his team friendly contract.

    Not sure how I feel about the Segura deal. Seems like we didn't get great return but what do I know about prospects. Seems like we could have flipped him at the deadline for a lot more.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:25 pm
  • So safe to say...same old Mariners?
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:25 pm
  • mrt144 wrote:So safe to say...same old Mariners?


    Except completely different

    So yes, in a weird way
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:41 pm
  • Seattle has been rebuilding since 2001, so 6 seasons should seem like overnight.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:22 pm
  • Well the Segura trade looks like crap. Don't we want high prospects that will be ready in 3 to 4 years..?
    Damn we gave a lot.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:22 pm
  • Dipoto points out that payroll in '19 will still be in the 140's. As for future spending, "We feel we put ourselves in the position that when our young players are on the field that team can use the free agents to finish a team, rather than build one."

    This is if they dont flip Bruce or Santana (i think atleast one will be gone by deadline) and dump Seager.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:26 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:Well the Segura trade looks like crap. Don't we want high prospects that will be ready in 3 to 4 years..?
    Damn we gave a lot.


    Pazos is broken and Nicasio is terrible and cost 9 million.

    They wont be missed and that 9 mill saved can be put to better use

    Segura for Crawford and Santana and sending two poor relievers to balance the salary plus free some space isnt bad.

    No additional prospect kind of sucks but that says a lot about Crawford and the two pitchers
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:03 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:THey might as well just keep Felix.. he has nothing left and nothing that would return any value. THe teams not going anywhere, just keep him, let him retire as the greatest Mariner pitcher ever.

    The only good thing about Felix is his contract is up after next season with a club option for 2020 I believe.
    Seager and his contract will be tough to move as he’s owed a crapton of money still.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:09 am
  • The only thing I really care is, can Ichiro play Mariners full time on DH position in 2019?
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:57 am
  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:THey might as well just keep Felix.. he has nothing left and nothing that would return any value. THe teams not going anywhere, just keep him, let him retire as the greatest Mariner pitcher ever.

    The only good thing about Felix is his contract is up after next season with a club option for 2020 I believe.
    Seager and his contract will be tough to move as he’s owed a crapton of money still.


    To move seager they will have to include another plsyer, pay some of his salary and take on a big salary. The benefit would be taking on a shorter salary
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:37 am
  • So who makes the playoffs first, the Mariners or the expansion NHL team in Seattle? Sadly, it will probably be the NHL team.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:02 pm
  • I was hoping for a partial rebuild. Segura was worth keeping. The Cano trade was brilliant. I just dont see this team ripped apart, leveled, destroyed.... getting better. Sadness...
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:38 pm
  • PHilly guy, saying how we got fleeced on the Segura deal..Seems the Phils been trying to unload those players for awhile now.. and finally had to settle for Segura and pitchers...
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:26 pm
  • Of all the trades, sounds like the worst is the Segura one.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:20 pm
  • Still not sure why folks are upset with the Segura trade. Only thing it lacked was a lottery pick prospect.

    Other than that seattle traded a player who has peaked for essentially the younger version and sent two crappy pitchers, one with 9 mill owed, for a veteran who should either contribute on the field or bting the team more asets (and salary space)
    Its not a great trade, but seattle did fine. This is a long term move for them. Philly couldn't wait on crawford.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:33 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:Still not sure why folks are upset with the Segura trade. Only thing it lacked was a lottery pick prospect.

    Other than that seattle traded a player who has peaked for essentially the younger version and sent two crappy pitchers, one with 9 mill owed, for a veteran who should either contribute on the field or bting the team more asets (and salary space)
    Its not a great trade, but seattle did fine. This is a long term move for them. Philly couldn't wait on crawford.


    Because Crawford has hit wel in triple A or his stint in the majors. Segura was proven. I’ll pay for proven. I get Crawford is young, doesn’t mean he will live up to his expectations.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:29 pm
  • Of course not. But the Ms dont want to pay for proven vets at the moment. Its a rebuild.

    They want segura 2-3 years from now. They traded for what is a potential (likely) candidate, plus payroll flexibility and an asset to gain more of both.

    Segura is good. Hes not great. Crawford will likely be as good, maybe better.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:23 am
  • Yeah I have no problem moving on from Segura, just wonder if we could have gotten more. Teams almost always give up more at the deadline than they will in the off season. The trade is simple, it all comes down to JP Crawford. There are two schools of thought here. One is that he was once a top 5 prospect and can come close to that and become a great shortstop, possibly better than Segura. The other is that he has stalled out in the minors for the past three years, and struggled when he was called up to the majors, and he likely won't be in the Mariners plan when they want to compete down the line.

    Decent chance Santana is flipped at some point this season. Nicasio was awful last season, but stats showed he was due for a bounce back. He was off the books in a year anyways, so I didn't really care if we kept him or not. I'll miss Pazos but he wasn't part of the long term plan here either.

    I think people were hoping that we could get a young prospect who has a ton of upside. If we traded for Crawford two years ago, people would have been excited. But he has already had a few years of pretty mediocre baseball in the minors. Maybe he turns it around, we will see. Like most of these prospects, who knows how great they will become.
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:46 am
  • Crawfords numbers dont show a stall... and werent mediocre (from what ive read... i admittedly cannot read baseball metrics well), his time in the majors were impacted by a wrist injury. His power numbers need to increase but everything is painting a picture of a player nearing seguras level already.

    I do agree they couldve gotten more... but then you wonder if seguras market was high anyways. Attitude issues at another club, this his fifth team i think in as many years. He may be as much a risk as Crawford.

    At very, very worst the Ms have procured themselves the top 6 prospects in their farm and lost on one player in Diaz anyone is truly going to miss (maybe Paxton but there is risk there with his injuries)

    I do think the only way to like any of these moves is to enjoy watching a full rebuild. Diputo certainly fell short 1-2 prospects in these deals but he also clearly got the plsyers he went in for.

    Hes all in.. and 2 years from now he will either be gleefully watching his project challenge for division supremacy or be updating his cv on LinkedIn
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:10 pm
  • I'm not great at reading all the new baseball stats, but his minor league stats are far from impressive. Too early to judge the kid, but I don't really see stats that show he is getting better or dominating in the minor leagues.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/regi ... awfo000jp-
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Re: Mariners 2018/19 offseason thread...
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:29 pm
  • I actually was reading his stats yesterday too and hitting .208 in the minors last year including .143 in the Florida State League (A) doesn't exactly inspire confidence. He has a long ways to go to get near Segura's level.

    Jerry got fleeced on the Philly deal. You have an All Star 28 year old SS who's hit over .300 3 years in a row, steals bases and has developed into a pure "professional hitter" with a sweet, compact line drive stroke-there is a market. For Jerry to actually pay Philly a million, and give up Pazos (2.88 era in 50 innings last year, under club control, high 90s lefty-those don't grow on trees) and not get another prospect back was ridiculous. Jerry completely folded on that negotiation-Philly apparently balked at giving another prospect so instead of just telling Philly no and continue shopping or wait to the trade deadline next year, he just gives in. And with Santana's contract, to flip him is going to require more offset money. Just not a great trade.

    I think the analysts are right--the team's primary focus is just ridding of payroll and not maximizing actual return value on prospects.
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