EPL 2012-2013

Discuss any and all sports-related topics. From the College Sports to Baseball and everything in between. RATING: PG-13
Re: EPL 2012-2013
Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:51 pm
  • Just saw your last post. Agreed, largely. I think Ferguson spends his money more wisely than Mancini and Abramovich. He still spends a tonne of money though.
    User avatar
    Hawkspur
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1257
    Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:12 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:13 pm
  • Hawkspur wrote:
    Glasgow Seahawk wrote: I hate the fact i'm defending Ferguson, he can be hugely unlikable but he is good at what he does.


    I think this is pretty much spot on. He comes across as a knob and a bully but he has had a hell of a career.

    As far as his continued success goes, the financial situation of the club may have changed somewhat but United are still spending way more on fees and wages than all but 2 or 3 other clubs. In reality, it's no surprise that United, City and Chelsea have been the only clubs to win the league in the last decade, is it?


    Arsenal as well in '04. All English teams are spending crazy money at the moment compared to most leagues and in all honesty, outside of the top 6 the quality is not that great considering the sums involved. When crap like Robbie Savage and Titus Bramble are multi millionaires despite being very very average players you know something ain't right. The debts some of the lower EPL teams have is frightening. What you'll find though is that the English national team are in for a long period of decline. Why spend time developing young English talent through youth academies when you can buy foreign talent from abroad who are first team ready?

    What you are now finding is that a lot of decent young English players are in the Championship. Some make it and get sold on for big fees to EPL teams but other prospects will end up remaining at Championship standard due to the standards of teams they are playing against.
    Glasgow Seahawk
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 214
    Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:57 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:58 pm
  • Glasgow Seahawk wrote:Arsenal as well in '04. All English teams are spending crazy money at the moment compared to most leagues and in all honesty, outside of the top 6 the quality is not that great considering the sums involved. When crap like Robbie Savage and Titus Bramble are multi millionaires despite being very very average players you know something ain't right. The debts some of the lower EPL teams have is frightening. What you'll find though is that the English national team are in for a long period of decline. Why spend time developing young English talent through youth academies when you can buy foreign talent from abroad who are first team ready?

    What you are now finding is that a lot of decent young English players are in the Championship. Some make it and get sold on for big fees to EPL teams but other prospects will end up remaining at Championship standard due to the standards of teams they are playing against.


    I think you'll find that there are one or two teams at the top of most European leagues that spend like crazy. Anzhi, Zenit, Dynamo Kiev, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Malaga, Bayern Munich, Juventus, AC, Inter, PSG and Galatasaray are teams from off the top of my head that I'm guessing spend more than Spurs or Arsenal. But your point is valid, the finances of football are screwed up and it makes the product less appealing (in my mind) than the likes of the NFL, NRL, Super XV in terms of being an interesting league to follow.

    The Dutch and Portuguese leagues are exceptions, I think.

    As for the English talent, I'm not convinced that the influx of foreigners is entirely to blame for British teams being pony of late. The attitude to sport in schools is utterly lamentable, pathetic even. I'm planning to be back in New Zealand by the time my eldest son is at an age to play sports (should he want to) and a large part of that is that provision for sports over here is a joke.
    User avatar
    Hawkspur
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1257
    Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:12 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:08 pm
  • Glasgow Seahawk wrote:I still think Arsenal can always be good again if Wengers future replacement actually sorted out the spine of the team. They won Championships with a spine of Seaman, Adam/Campbell/Keown, Viera, Bergkamp and Henry. They've never been that solid down the middle since.


    Arsenal have a good foundation for the future with their "British Core", as they're calling it. The trick now is to not sell the best players they've got. Also, I don't really think Wenger's gonna stay past the end of his contract, at least not in the manager's position.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:11 pm
  • Glasgow Seahawk wrote:Arsenal as well in '04. All English teams are spending crazy money at the moment compared to most leagues and in all honesty, outside of the top 6 the quality is not that great considering the sums involved. When crap like Robbie Savage and Titus Bramble are multi millionaires despite being very very average players you know something ain't right. The debts some of the lower EPL teams have is frightening. What you'll find though is that the English national team are in for a long period of decline. Why spend time developing young English talent through youth academies when you can buy foreign talent from abroad who are first team ready?

    What you are now finding is that a lot of decent young English players are in the Championship. Some make it and get sold on for big fees to EPL teams but other prospects will end up remaining at Championship standard due to the standards of teams they are playing against.


    One only really needs to look at PSG if you want an example of quantity not equalling quality. They've been buying like crazy and even though they're league leaders, it's pretty obvious that there's little to no chemistry between the players on the field for them.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:42 pm
  • Gatehawk wrote:
    Glasgow Seahawk wrote:I still think Arsenal can always be good again if Wengers future replacement actually sorted out the spine of the team. They won Championships with a spine of Seaman, Adam/Campbell/Keown, Viera, Bergkamp and Henry. They've never been that solid down the middle since.


    Arsenal have a good foundation for the future with their "British Core", as they're calling it. The trick now is to not sell the best players they've got. Also, I don't really think Wenger's gonna stay past the end of his contract, at least not in the manager's position.


    I still think they are soft at the back and need an enforcer in midfield i.e a Viera. Wanyama would be perfect for you guys.
    Glasgow Seahawk
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 214
    Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:57 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:45 pm
  • Gatehawk wrote:
    Glasgow Seahawk wrote:Arsenal as well in '04. All English teams are spending crazy money at the moment compared to most leagues and in all honesty, outside of the top 6 the quality is not that great considering the sums involved. When crap like Robbie Savage and Titus Bramble are multi millionaires despite being very very average players you know something ain't right. The debts some of the lower EPL teams have is frightening. What you'll find though is that the English national team are in for a long period of decline. Why spend time developing young English talent through youth academies when you can buy foreign talent from abroad who are first team ready?

    What you are now finding is that a lot of decent young English players are in the Championship. Some make it and get sold on for big fees to EPL teams but other prospects will end up remaining at Championship standard due to the standards of teams they are playing against.


    One only really needs to look at PSG if you want an example of quantity not equalling quality. They've been buying like crazy and even though they're league leaders, it's pretty obvious that there's little to no chemistry between the players on the field for them.


    City have the exact same problem. It's a bunch of mercenaries banded together for the money. Chelsea had the same issue under Ranieri and it was only until Mourinho came that he built a proper team and had the personality to get those players playing for him. Chelsea now have the same issues again though with managers signing players who are only there for the money. Torres for example looks completely disinterested.
    Glasgow Seahawk
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 214
    Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:57 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:32 pm
  • Glasgow, you're new here so you can be forgiven, but take our advise - try not to engage Gatehawk in conversation much.

    You're welcome.
    Rzzzzz...
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 10618
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:59 am
  • PSG have no chemistry? arent they in the final 16 of the Champs League? And thats without Lucas Moura playing.... ridiculous statement.

    Anyways... can begrudgingly admit to Ferguson's endurance as a manager.... but again I cant support any argument that suggests United are being somehow held back financially. You can post a spreadsheet on here if you want, but as it stands the Red Devils are running out the likes of De Gae, Rooney, RvP, Young, Evra, Kagawa etc at a very high pay each week. Seems hypocritical to suggest they need more money. Do they spend as much as City and Chelsea? No, but noone does outside of PSGs recent splurge and Madrids spree to catch Barca. Ferguson has spent better than his counterparts, which suggests his survival. I see Rodgers trying something similar to Wenger and Ferguson over the next couple windows at Liverpool, but with one significant (20 million plus) purchase coming in.

    I dont like that we assume players who take high paydays to play at big clubs are "mercenaries" in one post, but suggest that Champs League is a major motivator in another. Which is it? are they mercenaries or motivated to play in the highest competition? Is RvP a mercenary? Fabregas? Moura/Modric/Ronaldo? Professional athletes should be given the chance to seek out new opportunities. Some seem to only condemn when its an easy fit, and overlook when it doesnt suit their argument.

    City players, for example, are not mercenaries in my mind. They want that big game. City and Chelsea just have brought the right balance of talent in. Not on the players as much as they manager and DOC. But thats another post all together.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4821
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:52 am
  • All the talk about money in futbol and especially the EPL makes me even more proud to be an Athletic Bilbao supporter. Even then, the crazy $ game is starting to effect us as well, what with Bayern Munich agreeing to pay the 45$ million buyout clause on Javi Martinez and Fernando Llorente refusing to sign for 4 million a year. I won't say that futbol is ruined because of this but when you couple it with the corruption, match fixing, it's obvious the game needs a makeover.

    That said, I'll always be proud of the way Athletic handles their business and goes with NOTHING but homegrown players. Gotta love it.

    AUPA ATHLETIC!!!
    Talkin Seahawks All Day, All Night @ my blog Seafense! http://seafense.blogspot.com/
    User avatar
    NYCoug
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1392
    Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:45 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:24 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:PSG have no chemistry? arent they in the final 16 of the Champs League? And thats without Lucas Moura playing.... ridiculous statement.


    I'm just going from what I've heard, and it's mostly involving them when playing in Ligue 1.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:25 pm
  • peachesenregalia wrote:Glasgow, you're new here so you can be forgiven, but take our advise - try not to engage Gatehawk in conversation much.

    You're welcome.


    You should talk, you telling him to not talk with me, and yet you're normally the first to reply to my posts.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:27 pm
  • Gatehawk wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:Glasgow, you're new here so you can be forgiven, but take our advise - try not to engage Gatehawk in conversation much.

    You're welcome.


    You should talk, you telling him to not talk with me, and yet you're normally the first to reply to my posts.


    I'm always just trying to troll you, but he seemed to be genuinely trying to converse with you. Even you know that's a bad idea.
    Rzzzzz...
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 10618
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:54 pm
  • So who is getting relegated? I'd love to see Wigan go down but they always seem to avoid it by the skin of their teeth.

    I think: QPR, Reading and either Norwich/Villa.
    Glasgow Seahawk
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 214
    Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:57 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:36 am
  • peachesenregalia wrote:
    Gatehawk wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:Glasgow, you're new here so you can be forgiven, but take our advise - try not to engage Gatehawk in conversation much.

    You're welcome.


    You should talk, you telling him to not talk with me, and yet you're normally the first to reply to my posts.


    I'm always just trying to troll you, but he seemed to be genuinely trying to converse with you. Even you know that's a bad idea.


    As long as he doesn't start an argument where no one can win, let him do what he wants
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:38 am
  • Who else thinks Spurs this season rely as much on Bale as Arsenal did last year with RvP? Because to me, it seems like Spurs would be in a cluster**** of trouble without him.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:50 am
  • Well unless Sunderland makes some kind of change, I can't see them even challenging Szczesny's net anymore in this game, they're finding it difficult just to get the ball out of their half.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:58 am
  • This just in. QPR well & truly suck. Can the PL just go ahead and relegate them now to avoid wasting people's time the rest of the season?
    Image
    You are absolutely entitled to state your opinion whenever you wish, and I am absolutely entitled to point out the stupidity of that opinion with the same frequency.
    User avatar
    SeatownJay
    * NET Staff Alumni *
    * NET Staff Alumni *
     
    Posts: 5869
    Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:38 pm
    Location: Hagerstown, MD


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:38 pm
  • Gatehawk wrote:Well unless Sunderland makes some kind of change, I can't see them even challenging Szczesny's net anymore in this game, they're finding it difficult just to get the ball out of their half.


    Yeah, I almost jinxed Arsenal with that comment, didn't I?
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:54 pm
  • Mancini out.

    Unbelievable.

    This is one of the worst PL years in my memory, United are going to win because they're slightly less mediocre than everyone else, and because RVP hasn't gotten injured.

    Jammie bastards.
    Rzzzzz...
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 10618
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:37 pm
  • I don't think City's players didn't really do any thing to help Mancini today
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:49 pm
  • Its almost sad to see the PL at this state of mediocrity. There are maybe 4-5 really world class players in the league right now (Suarez, RvP, Aguero and Bale who may be the 3rd best player in the world at the moment) the PL is suffering from thus lack of genuine talent and may lose more players in the summer. Not only do Bale and Suarez need to stay but PL teams need to attract more talent. It wont be hard with the dram of the German league, the three Spanish teams and FFP
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4821
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:52 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:Its almost sad to see the PL at this state of mediocrity. There are maybe 4-5 really world class players in the league right now (Suarez, RvP, Aguero and Bale who may be the 3rd best player in the world at the moment) the PL is suffering from thus lack of genuine talent and may lose more players in the summer. Not only do Bale and Suarez need to stay but PL teams need to attract more talent. It wont be hard with the dram of the German league, the three Spanish teams and FFP


    I think it's more that the EPL was due for a down year, mostly after last season.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:06 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:Its almost sad to see the PL at this state of mediocrity. There are maybe 4-5 really world class players in the league right now (Suarez, RvP, Aguero and Bale who may be the 3rd best player in the world at the moment) the PL is suffering from thus lack of genuine talent and may lose more players in the summer. Not only do Bale and Suarez need to stay but PL teams need to attract more talent. It wont be hard with the dram of the German league, the three Spanish teams and FFP


    I blame Chelsea and City for the lack of talent. Overseas clubs now seem to be adding £10 million to the value of their players because these reckless chumps have shown that they're prepared to pay it. They appear to believe that all English clubs are in the same financial situation. For clubs who are actually concerned with staying solvent the top young talent is much harder to find at a sensible pric than it was 6 - 7 years ago.
    User avatar
    Hawkspur
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1257
    Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:12 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:36 am
  • There is no logic in "the league is due". Yes it ended fantastically last year. The two top teams combined for the highest point total in decades. But that can't mask the clear issue thatother leagues are putting out a better product, even last year. While City-United was a great end.... where was the drama in the rest of the league? And how has that dram led to an influx of new talent? It hasn't. While I should add Mata to that list of world class players the league did lose Modric. Chelsea won the Champs league but was massively outplayed by Bayern and Barca. The English teams this year are underdogs in their upcoming ties.

    I agree with Spur... City and Chelsea may have pushed the league to untenable heights of spending. But there is something else. Neymar, Lucas, Falcoa are not even considering the PL. Pep passed up obvious openings at City, Chelsea and maybe United for Germany. Bale and Suarez may be leaving. They will no doubt be well sought after in Spain this summer.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4821
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:08 am
  • Uncle Si wrote:There is no logic in "the league is due". Yes it ended fantastically last year. The two top teams combined for the highest point total in decades. But that can't mask the clear issue thatother leagues are putting out a better product, even last year. While City-United was a great end.... where was the drama in the rest of the league? And how has that dram led to an influx of new talent? It hasn't. While I should add Mata to that list of world class players the league did lose Modric. Chelsea won the Champs league but was massively outplayed by Bayern and Barca. The English teams this year are underdogs in their upcoming ties.

    I agree with Spur... City and Chelsea may have pushed the league to untenable heights of spending. But there is something else. Neymar, Lucas, Falcoa are not even considering the PL. Pep passed up obvious openings at City, Chelsea and maybe United for Germany. Bale and Suarez may be leaving. They will no doubt be well sought after in Spain this summer.


    I was thinking of the action-reaction thing. Last season was one of the most exciting seasons of the EPL, so I feel it could have been that this season is the result of it and the EPL is suffering while trying to follow up that and it's just not happening this season.

    I think there's a number of reasons why those 3 players are turning down the EPL, but I don't really think it's solely because they don't want to. With Falcao, Atletico is actually in title contention in La Liga, though Barca don't look like they're gonna lose it, so it could be Atletico is refusing to sell him at the moment. Neymar, it's really anyone's guess as to his true reasoning. Lucas, it was simply a case of PSG offering more than United and other EPL clubs that were interested.

    As for Pep, a blind donkey could see why he chose Bayern Munich over City and Chelsea. I think most big name managers are afraid to take the Chelsea job because of Abramovic. And then City, is a lot tougher to figure out this reason, but I think it's more that Pep just didn't want to deal with the craziness the City job would bring.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:15 am
  • Hawkspur wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Its almost sad to see the PL at this state of mediocrity. There are maybe 4-5 really world class players in the league right now (Suarez, RvP, Aguero and Bale who may be the 3rd best player in the world at the moment) the PL is suffering from thus lack of genuine talent and may lose more players in the summer. Not only do Bale and Suarez need to stay but PL teams need to attract more talent. It wont be hard with the dram of the German league, the three Spanish teams and FFP


    I blame Chelsea and City for the lack of talent. Overseas clubs now seem to be adding £10 million to the value of their players because these reckless chumps have shown that they're prepared to pay it. They appear to believe that all English clubs are in the same financial situation. For clubs who are actually concerned with staying solvent the top young talent is much harder to find at a sensible pric than it was 6 - 7 years ago.


    You maybe onto something there. It might make sense that some teams are price fixing their players solely cause City, and Chelsea, are willing to way more than a player is actually worth.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:58 am
  • Again Gate, aside from agreeing through disagreement I'm not sure what you're on about. A blind monkey? At what point did the German league become a stronger pull than the PL? Peps choosing the German league because its easy? No... and while Chelsea may be unstable, City isn't. He chose Germany because that league is on the rise. Its financially stable, competitive and developing. The PL is on the way down. That's the point. Lucas chose PSG because they can offer more. Falcoa will go to Italy, Real or Barca in the summer because the success rate is higher. Basically everything I said you agreed with then tried to explain. The explanations aren't necessary, but they aren't anoloies, nor each singular. Pep, Cavani, Neymar, Lucas, Falcoa will all end up outside of England for the same basic premise. Its the same one that may draw Suarez and Bale away. The PL right now is not looked on as the ultimate in football. Last years dramatic finale and chelseas herpics did nothing to add to the allure either (what world class players joined the PL this summer.... and don't bore me with Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool additions. None were world class. They represent the new PL.. almost moneyball additions)

    Ericksen is this summers big target. Where he goes will say alot
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4821
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:03 pm
  • I want to say that it may not be a bad thing. Purchases like Borini, Coutinho, Holtby, Giroud, Sissokho, Kagawa may help overturn the precedent set by the Chelseas and Citys. They can only help the health of the league. But the PL may not see a truly world class addition for a couple of windows. So why the Neymars, Ronaldos, Alonsos, Lucas' go elsewhere, and the Dortmunds and Schalkes continue to develop in their own buildings, the PL may have to wait and create more balance. Because of that, as peaches said, the mediocrity will continue
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4821
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:58 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:Again Gate, aside from agreeing through disagreement I'm not sure what you're on about. A blind monkey? At what point did the German league become a stronger pull than the PL? Peps choosing the German league because its easy? No... and while Chelsea may be unstable, City isn't. He chose Germany because that league is on the rise. Its financially stable, competitive and developing. The PL is on the way down. That's the point. Lucas chose PSG because they can offer more. Falcoa will go to Italy, Real or Barca in the summer because the success rate is higher. Basically everything I said you agreed with then tried to explain. The explanations aren't necessary, but they aren't anoloies, nor each singular. Pep, Cavani, Neymar, Lucas, Falcoa will all end up outside of England for the same basic premise. Its the same one that may draw Suarez and Bale away. The PL right now is not looked on as the ultimate in football. Last years dramatic finale and chelseas herpics did nothing to add to the allure either (what world class players joined the PL this summer.... and don't bore me with Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool additions. None were world class. They represent the new PL.. almost moneyball additions)

    Ericksen is this summers big target. Where he goes will say alot


    We both know, the German league is far from easy, and you're right, the Bundesliga doesn't have a stronger pull than the EPL, but even I would choose Bayern Munich over the likes of Chelsea and City. And while I never actually said City are unstable, Manchester City are basically a tightrope act due to all the ego they are buying, though they did offload a massive chunk of it with Balotelli's transfer to Milan, but honestly in my mind, City are still a few steps from turning into a full on train wreck of a club, and it's mostly to do with the outrageous wages that the players are being paid, half of which are being paid 150+ to sit on the bench for at least 60 minutes.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:35 pm
  • Hawkspur wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Its almost sad to see the PL at this state of mediocrity. There are maybe 4-5 really world class players in the league right now (Suarez, RvP, Aguero and Bale who may be the 3rd best player in the world at the moment) the PL is suffering from thus lack of genuine talent and may lose more players in the summer. Not only do Bale and Suarez need to stay but PL teams need to attract more talent. It wont be hard with the dram of the German league, the three Spanish teams and FFP


    I blame Chelsea and City for the lack of talent. Overseas clubs now seem to be adding £10 million to the value of their players because these reckless chumps have shown that they're prepared to pay it. They appear to believe that all English clubs are in the same financial situation. For clubs who are actually concerned with staying solvent the top young talent is much harder to find at a sensible pric than it was 6 - 7 years ago.


    It's not just City and Chelsea though. Next season every EPL team will be making a lot more tv money than this year due to the new sky, bt vision and al jazeera deals. Why should non EPL clubs not ask for more money for their players when they know they'll have it.

    I think part of the reason players have second thoughts about England is the tax rate. 50% of your earnings are taxed whereas in Russia they aren't.
    Glasgow Seahawk
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 214
    Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:57 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:42 pm
  • Glasgow, your point about tax is a good one. Footballers in Spain only pay 20% tax too.
    User avatar
    Hawkspur
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1257
    Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:12 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:21 pm
  • They are proposing a 70% high earners tax in France. Whether it will pass I don't but it could make PSG's job so much harder to attract talent.
    Glasgow Seahawk
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 214
    Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:57 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:32 pm
  • The 25% top earners bracket (a tax rate specifically for footballers, effectively, and known in Spain as 'the Beckham law'), won't last long in Spain, either. I think it moves to 45% later this year.
    User avatar
    Hawkspur
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1257
    Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:12 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:44 pm
  • Just kill me now.

    Seriously.
    Rzzzzz...
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 10618
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:57 pm
  • peachesenregalia wrote:Just kill me now.

    Seriously.

    Yep... done. Lost all interest in the season
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4821
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:59 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:Just kill me now.

    Seriously.

    Yep... done. Lost all interest in the season


    I don't see how Suarez stays at this point. Barring a massive turn of events, we're looking at MAYBE Europa league again. He deserves better.
    Rzzzzz...
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 10618
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:10 pm
  • Better than what? He pissed away his chances this afternoon as well... he deserves us as much as we deserve him.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4821
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:57 pm
  • Today is a day that sports can die in a fire.
    InSuarezWeTrust
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 429
    Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:34 am


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:03 am
  • Yep.
    Rzzzzz...
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 10618
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:30 pm
  • peachesenregalia wrote:Yep.



    agreed.... what can you do?
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4821
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:17 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:Yep.



    agreed.... what can you do?


    Bugger all. Just keep having my hopes dashed every year. This must be what Cubs and Mets fans feel every season.
    Rzzzzz...
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 10618
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:54 pm
  • So how do you fix Liverpool? Clearly a huge club with a massive fan base who are experiencing a tough time of mediocrity at the moment. Do you give the manager time and money to sort things out or try a different option. In my opinion, I would give Rodgers at least another season but how much patience will Liverpool fans have? What's your thoughts?
    Glasgow Seahawk
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 214
    Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:57 pm


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:04 am
  • What to do about Liverpool.... I have several opinions on this, so bear with me. None of them are "sack the manager, buy Neymar" either.

    First, with Rodgers... He deserves another year, as would any manager thrust into his position. The team he inherited lacked quality in several pieces and are unfit to run the system he prefers. He has been naive in some matches (the first West Brom game, the first game and last 20 of the second with Arsenal) but in many regards his players have let him down.

    As far as quality, the team needs a consistent midfielder (Ericksen?), a consistent winger (I like the idea of Julian Draxler, despite his being young), a new left back, a new centerback and a new keeper. All 5 of these need to be high quality players. And here is where Liverpool is both strong and weak. When we examine the PL, there is really only one "strong" team, and that is United. And why? They are very experienced, everywhere. They have proven, tested goal scorers, a manager willing to play to his teams strengths and players across the board who have already won games. Liverpool is just not that club right now. The average age is 23. Many of the players called on to impact highly competitive games are very young and new to the rigors of the PL. Jordan Henderson and Joe Allen being the main culprits, but it doesnt stop there. Borini, Coutinho, Sterling, Suso, Shelvey, Wisdom may all become very good PL players, but need the time on the field. This time to gain experience has come and will come in big matches. We can assume that their will be negative results. There is no way around that.

    But this needs to be coupled with another, bigger problem that I am beginning to (fretfully) realize. Im not sure the 4-3-3 and its components in the way that Rodgers/Wenger want to run it can be successful in the PL. In nearly every match that Liverpool has been in they have been better for longer stretches of time than their opponent, and yet been undone by the simplest of mistakes. (Wenger's Arsenal teams of the very near past have succumbed to the same issues.... defensive breakdowns have undone title/cup chances)

    The 433 in the way Rodgers plays it asks that its team defends by possessing the ball for long stretches of time. this involved intricate, tight triangles throughout the field, but mostly through the middle third and into the attacking third. And this is where I see our biggest problem... Liverpools players are not geared to do this, neither mentally nor technically. the triangles break down far too quickly, leaving gaping holes in their shape. the triangles are far too big, never truly unbalancing the other team's shape, leaving Liverpool without options after a few passes. In reality, Liverpool become weaker and weaker with each pass they make through the midfield. And often their decision making leaves them more exposed or at the very least shapeless in attack, with some players moving to build around the ball only to see it pinged long in the very English manner. Look at what United do at the moment. Sit, defend in shape, hit on the wings with counters... top of the league. When Liverpool do push the ball, they have been undone by their own lack of quality near goal (as illustrated in the recent stat that indicate them as bottom in the league in shot on target percentage, and more clearly their last 5 matches, all of which should have been Liverpool victories). This combination of poor finishing, naive defending and disorganization (lack of tactical understanding and technical ability) in shape in key moments is the basis of our mediocrity. The issue is less about formation and system and more about philosophy.

    The recent question I have mulled is whether Liverpools current players are the issue, or the players in the system are the issue (meaning would the current squad be more successful in a different system/philosophy). Would Barca succeed in their system in the PL? Hard to say, but it needs to be said that even they have gone "longer" this season. I think a better 433 system to emulate would be Real Madrids. Liverpool's current players would be more suited to a 4231, with deeper lying midfielders and more direct attacking. If Rodgers is insistent on the Barca version, he will need an overhaul at the positions I listed above with true world class quality

    Either way, this is my long answer. Rodgers is the right man (for now). However, he needs to balance his system with the players... or the fans need to be patient while both learn. This is the issue with Liverpool as a brand. Its fans are buried in its past glories. and despite the fact that those glories came with homegrown mostly English Liverpool players, many Reds fans expect the club to purchase the worlds best, regardless of price tag. This is contrary to anything the club has ever done. But many fans scream "But we are Liverpool" without really knowing what that means, or where it comes from.

    Personally I can wait. but next summer I expect atleast three very strong new players in and a renewed philosophy. I expect top 4, I expect Rodgers to have gained a better understanding of life in the Prem and to be willing to adjust and adopt to his players strengths while implementing a system that can be successful.
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4821
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:01 am
  • Image

    Why does God hate Arsenal?
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:15 am
  • Because god hates you. So he hates Arsenal by extension.

    Also, that was nothing to do with god, and everything to do with Arsenal being beaten fair and square.
    Rzzzzz...
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 10618
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:21 am
  • And before you say something about Arsenal being 'the better team', just stop. I'm tired of hearing that excuse, even by Liverpool fans. The better team is the one that wins.
    Rzzzzz...
    User avatar
    peachesenregalia
    * NET Starfish *
     
    Posts: 10618
    Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:29 am
    Location: Helm's Deep


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:31 am
  • peachesenregalia wrote:And before you say something about Arsenal being 'the better team', just stop. I'm tired of hearing that excuse, even by Liverpool fans. The better team is the one that wins.

    But but but possession and shots count for goals right?
    User avatar
    Uncle Si
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4821
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:34 am


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:49 am
  • You guys are bastards, kicking me while I'm down.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


Re: EPL 2012-2013
Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:52 am
  • Just for once don't crack on Arsenal, and not turn it on me and make this worse for someone who's already feeling like crap.
    User avatar
    Gatehawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1784
    Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:29 pm
    Location: SW Florida


PreviousNext


It is currently Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:15 pm

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE SPORTS BAR ]




Information
  • Who is online