Tony Stewart hits and kills another driver

Discuss any and all sports-related topics. From the College Sports to Baseball and everything in between. LANGUAGE RATING: PG-13
  • Except it's not.
    SonicHawk
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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    NoChops wrote:not making excuses at all. Juan Pablo was under caution when he took out that truck dryer and caused an explosion at Daytona. Stuff happens.

    By your argument, Montoya, record holing F1, Monaco GP, Indy 500 winner, 24 hr. LeMan, two time Cup winner should have been able to miss that truck. He didn't.

    Tony didn't miss a kid running down the middle of the track. I still say it was a terrible accident.

    but to each his own.


    Montoya had a mechanical issue, not driver error. Thanks for his driving history, didn't help your point. Had Montoya killed someone it would CLEARLY have been an accident.


    yet your point that Smoke lives his life at 200 MPH and is aware of everything around him and as a champion racer obviously saw the kid running down the track from a mile away is valid...rubbish.
    NoChops
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  • Hey Sonic,

    I'd like to point out that I'm not taking a side in this, in fact, I hate Tony Stewart with a passion. I think he is a whining hot-head with deep pockets. That just pisses me off. Rich people need to be humble, and nice. Tony, is a douchebag.

    I'm just commenting as a person who has built and driven these cars for several years, and want to make sure the difficulty of controlling them and seeing out of them is not left out of the conversation. When I scrutinize the video, it does not look like he saw him until it was too late, and would not have expected to see him out on the track. He tried to avoid him, not run him over. Period.

    Ward Jr. got out of his car during a yellow flag, which would have disqualified him and put him in violation of track rules. He may have been ejected had he made it back to the pits. I have seen incidents like this happen first hand with pissed off drivers running onto the track, in every case, those drivers were banned from the track for the remainder of the season.

    Had it been Jeff Gordon or Kasey Kahne in Tony's spot, I seriously doubt there would be as much uproar. I am thoroughly convinced that anyone that got strapped into one of those cars with 750 hp of alcohol burning fury between their legs they'd immediately understand things in a very different way.

    Oh, and Stewart cannot be prosecuted either, because every racer signs a hold-harmless, "you might die" document before they can even race. They won't let you in the pits unless every participant signs it. It basically says that if you race, you might die, and if you do, it is nobody's fault but your own.

    In this case, it was his own fault he died. And I will say this One... More... Time...

    Ward Jr. died because he got out of his race car and walked out onto the track under a yellow flag at a sprint car race.
    HoustonHawk82
     


  • An accidental death waiver doesn't cover criminal actions. Even if it explicitly did it wouldn't mean anything to police.
    SonicHawk
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  • LMAO.

    Sounds like there is no conversation to be had with SonicHawk. He has some type of irrational hatred towards Tony Stewart that warps the facts and evidence that has been released as damning and somehow clearly proves that Stewart should be charged with manslaughter.

    Let the witch-hunt begin!
    JGfromtheNW
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  • JGfromtheNW wrote:LMAO.

    Sounds like there is no conversation to be had with SonicHawk. He has some type of irrational hatred towards Tony Stewart that warps the facts and evidence that has been released as damning and somehow clearly proves that Stewart should be charged with manslaughter.

    Let the witch-hunt begin!


    No, I don't hate Stewart. He's a very good driver, in fact, he's an exceptional driver and this is a HORRIBLE accident.

    But I've seen way too many people blaming the victim for his death while giving no credit to the driving ability and wherewithall of Stewart. It's as if Tony Stewart was an old lady driving a Buick.

    I'm not convinced of anything yet, I'm just presenting my thoughts based off what we know. I would like to see an investigation and for a sentence to be carried out if justice is due.
    SonicHawk
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  • HoustonHawk82 wrote:Hey Sonic,

    I'd like to point out that I'm not taking a side in this, in fact, I hate Tony Stewart with a passion. I think he is a whining hot-head with deep pockets. That just pisses me off. Rich people need to be humble, and nice. Tony, is a douchebag.

    I'm just commenting as a person who has built and driven these cars for several years, and want to make sure the difficulty of controlling them and seeing out of them is not left out of the conversation. When I scrutinize the video, it does not look like he saw him until it was too late, and would not have expected to see him out on the track. He tried to avoid him, not run him over. Period.



    I have no question in my mind that Stewart had no intention of hitting Ward. I think Stewart did not think Ward was dumb enough to traverse out as far as he did.

    HoustonHawk82 wrote:
    Ward Jr. got out of his car during a yellow flag, which would have disqualified him and put him in violation of track rules. He may have been ejected had he made it back to the pits. I have seen incidents like this happen first hand with pissed off drivers running onto the track, in every case, those drivers were banned from the track for the remainder of the season.



    Yeah, Ward should have not gotten out of his car, of course.

    HoustonHawk82 wrote:
    Had it been Jeff Gordon or Kasey Kahne in Tony's spot, I seriously doubt there would be as much uproar. I am thoroughly convinced that anyone that got strapped into one of those cars with 750 hp of alcohol burning fury between their legs they'd immediately understand things in a very different way.



    You're probably right, but that's because Kahne and Gordon don't have a history of being hotheads. Being a hothead behind the wheel of a powerful yet ridiculously unstable vehicle is not a good mix and SHOULD be thought of as evidence.

    HoustonHawk82 wrote:
    Oh, and Stewart cannot be prosecuted either, because every racer signs a hold-harmless, "you might die" document before they can even race. They won't let you in the pits unless every participant signs it. It basically says that if you race, you might die, and if you do, it is nobody's fault but your own.



    You don't really believe this do you?

    HoustonHawk82 wrote:
    In this case, it was his own fault he died. And I will say this One... More... Time...

    Ward Jr. died because he got out of his race car and walked out onto the track under a yellow flag at a sprint car race.


    Ward Jr. died because he got run over by Stewart's rear wheel. It's up to investigators to determine whether it was because of Stewarts negligence or not.
    SonicHawk
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  • I am trying to remove any type of bias or preconceived notions and focus on exactly what we can see and know is fact. Most rational people have come to this conclusion:

    "What the video shows is pretty limited. From what anyone and everyone can see from the video, Ward jumps out of his car in an emotional state and runs down into the race line where numerous cars are passing by. The first car that passes by after Ward is out of his car and on the track narrowly misses him as he is recklessly walking into the race line and pointing at Stewart without looking where he is going. In the video, one can only see Ward and the Stewart car for fractions of a second before Ward is struck by Stewart's car.

    Considering all things and what we can ACTUALLY SEE ON VIDEO, without any type of hear-say or questioning what was going through either driver's heads, one can only come to the assumption that Ward was solely responsible for the very unfortunate accident that took his life."

    If you want to take it a step further and look at it through the INFORMED EYE, like through the eyes of someone like HoustonHawk, Ward would have immediately been banned for the remainder of the season as he got out of his car, with no emergency in progress, and raced onto a live race track during a live race. I think that this information alone pretty much sums up that the reason Ward lost his life, is because Ward went against every race track and racing league's strict rules and recklessly ran into a moving vehicle.
    JGfromtheNW
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  • JGfromtheNW wrote:I am trying to remove any type of bias or preconceived notions and focus on exactly what we can see and know is fact. Most rational people have come to this conclusion:

    "What the video shows is pretty limited. From what anyone and everyone can see from the video, Ward jumps out of his car in an emotional state and runs down into the race line where numerous cars are passing by. The first car that passes by after Ward is out of his car and on the track narrowly misses him as he is recklessly walking into the race line and pointing at Stewart without looking where he is going. In the video, one can only see Ward and the Stewart car for fractions of a second before Ward is struck by Stewart's car.

    Considering all things and what we can ACTUALLY SEE ON VIDEO, without any type of hear-say or questioning what was going through either driver's heads, one can only come to the assumption that Ward was solely responsible for the very unfortunate accident that took his life."

    If you want to take it a step further and look at it through the INFORMED EYE, like through the eyes of someone like HoustonHawk, Ward would have immediately been banned for the remainder of the season as he got out of his car, with no emergency in progress, and raced onto a live race track during a live race.


    What does being banned have to do with anything?

    And, congratulations to HoustonHawk, I played baseball in college, I must know what it's like to be Mike Trout. His informed eye only suggested that there's a good chance that Tony Stewart wasn't fully in control of what he was trying to do which I completely agree. At no point anywhere would I suggest that Stewart's actions were intentional, however as an experienced driver as Stewart, he should have never been in that position.
    SonicHawk
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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    JGfromtheNW wrote:I am trying to remove any type of bias or preconceived notions and focus on exactly what we can see and know is fact. Most rational people have come to this conclusion:

    "What the video shows is pretty limited. From what anyone and everyone can see from the video, Ward jumps out of his car in an emotional state and runs down into the race line where numerous cars are passing by. The first car that passes by after Ward is out of his car and on the track narrowly misses him as he is recklessly walking into the race line and pointing at Stewart without looking where he is going. In the video, one can only see Ward and the Stewart car for fractions of a second before Ward is struck by Stewart's car.

    Considering all things and what we can ACTUALLY SEE ON VIDEO, without any type of hear-say or questioning what was going through either driver's heads, one can only come to the assumption that Ward was solely responsible for the very unfortunate accident that took his life."

    If you want to take it a step further and look at it through the INFORMED EYE, like through the eyes of someone like HoustonHawk, Ward would have immediately been banned for the remainder of the season as he got out of his car, with no emergency in progress, and raced onto a live race track during a live race.


    What does being banned have to do with anything?

    And, congratulations to HoustonHawk, I played baseball in college, I must know what it's like to be Mike Trout. His informed eye only suggested that there's a good chance that Tony Stewart wasn't fully in control of what he was trying to do which I completely agree. At no point anywhere would I suggest that Stewart's actions were intentional, however as an experienced driver as Stewart, he should have never been in that position.


    What position is that?
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  • Not on top of Ward's body.

    I truly hope the investigation concludes through evidence that this was simply a terrible tragedy and Stewart did not have any intention of 'buzzing' or instigating anything with Ward.
    SonicHawk
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  • SonicHawk wrote:Not on top of Ward's body.

    I truly hope the investigation concludes through evidence that this was simply a terrible tragedy and Stewart did not have any intention of 'buzzing' or instigating anything with Ward.


    No $h!t. But you say it as if it was completely avoidable once he saw Ward
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  • You're making the story too small.

    I don't know when he actually is able to see Ward.

    Here's what I know:

    Stewart was aware it was a caution flag
    Stewart was aware that he was the one who knocked Ward into the wall
    Stewart is a professional at the top of his game and he doesn't want some hot-head kid showing him up
    Stewart has a history of poor safety choices and being an @$$h0le
    Stewart has the best gear and equipment
    Stewart is an exceptional driver
    Stewart has excellent vision, awareness and feel
    This is not Stewart's first race.

    We only see Stewart and Ward for a split second before the accident on the video. It's clear Ward made a mistake by being in the middle of the track, it's also clear that the other, less experienced driver was able to avoid him.
    SonicHawk
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  • SonicHawk wrote:What does being banned have to do with anything?


    It means that it was such an egregious infraction that Ward would have been done racing for the remainder of the season. That's what it has to do with it.
    JGfromtheNW
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  • It looked like a horrible accident to me, caused by the kid making a really dumb mistake and running out onto the track in anger. I don't know what else Stewart could have done to avoid hitting him.

    The kid should not have put himself in that situation.
    Msfann
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  • JGfromtheNW wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:What does being banned have to do with anything?


    It means that it was such an egregious infraction that Ward would have been done racing for the remainder of the season. That's what it has to do with it.


    Yeah, because it's not safe. That doesn't absolve Stewart of fault.
    SonicHawk
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  • At some point OWNERSHIP of what happened needs to take place. Only it can't because the person that caused his own death is in fact dead.

    He knew the rules, and chose to put his life on the line for what?...an accident that he walked away from that had no bearing on anything except the outcome of a single race. He was on the outside and behind Stewart. He hit his front tire on Stewarts rear tire. HIS FAULT. Then he breaks all the rules and gets out, and like an idiot, stammers around in the dark.

    Not too bright.
    Largent80
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  • So he deserves to die? You've never done something foolish?

    If a bicyclist is on the freeway and gesture at him to get off the freeway, and by doing that gesture, hit and kill him... that's not the bicyclists fault. That's negligence.

    If I'm driving the speed limit and a bicyclist jumps in front of me while I have the right away and I can't help but run into him... that's an accident.
    SonicHawk
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  • SonicHawk,

    You don't know what happened in this instance though. I agree with you that if Tony Stewart was sending a message by speeding up and swerving near him he should be prosecuted.

    If Stewart didn't see him which is entirely possible given what the kid was wearing at night and where he was on the track then it definitely is not his fault. Next time you are driving on the freeway at night check out how hard it would be to see someone wearing what he was wearing. I realize that he is a professional drive but it doesn't mean he has significantly better eyes than we do.

    The problem is we don't know at this time. I hope they record radio traffic for the track and we can hear what was said to Tony and what he was saying.
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  • I agree, we don't know at this time. I'm not in anyway ready to throw the book at Stewart. But this instant dismissal of the possibility is ridiculous.
    SonicHawk
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  • SonicHawk wrote:I agree, we don't know at this time. I'm not in anyway ready to throw the book at Stewart. But this instant dismissal of the possibility is ridiculous.


    Well I totally agree with that. It is definitely possible. You were kind of going the other way on your comments though.
    bigtrain21
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  • BEFORE EVERY race, the rules are gone over with all the drivers and crews in attendance. Each driver and crewman knows exactly what they are to do and what not to do.

    If you step outside of those rules it is no mans land. ESPECIALLY at night, and even MORE especially a sprint car race on clay.

    I have been involved in racing for over 55 years and I have NEVER seen another driver do that in that type of race. On a Nascar paved track in broad daylight, yes, everyone has seen it.

    But at a small track that is underlit, in a sprintcar?....Nope......He was more of a hothead than Stewart supposedly is.
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  • If nothing else comes out of this. I hope that these drivers learn not to get out of their car on the track because of how dangerous it can be. Especially in a night race and wearing a dark fire suit. I also hope they put some reflective material on the fire suits from now on.
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  • SonicHawk wrote:I agree, we don't know at this time. I'm not in anyway ready to throw the book at Stewart.


    Really? That's not what you said earlier today.

    SonicHawk wrote:This was involuntary manslaughter and should be prosecuted as such.


    Image
    Spounge84
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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    1) Stewart was aware it was a caution flag
    2) Stewart was aware that he was the one who knocked Ward into the wall
    3) Stewart is a professional at the top of his game and he doesn't want some hot-head kid showing him up
    4) Stewart has a history of poor safety choices and being an @$$h0le
    5) Stewart has the best gear and equipment
    6) Stewart is an exceptional driver
    7) Stewart has excellent vision, awareness and feel
    8) This is not Stewart's first race.
    9) t's also clear that the other, less experienced driver was able to avoid him.



    Disclaimer: I have never watched Nascar nor have a clue about auto racing other than the whole driving straight and then turning to the left thing.

    1) This can reasonably be assumed.

    2) Not necessarily. Only Stewart could speak to this. Regardless, I believe you are concluding that he knew the location of Ward's vehicle and therefore knew or should have known where Ward the individual was, or at least the general location. I'm not sure we have any evidence that this was the case.

    3) Based upon what I have seen, the first part is irrelevant and the second calls for speculation.

    4) I'm sure there is evidence of this, but what is the connection? i.e. specifically what did Stewart do in this case that reflected a poor safety choice? Again keep in mind I know nothing about racing. As for him being an @$$h0le, that's fine, but how is that relevant? (I don't buy the hot-head kid argument, as I am struggling to understand how or why Stewart would be intimidated by a driver he just wrecked? Especially since in this case Ward was a pedestrian while Stewart was in a vehicle. Or am I missing something about racing and egos or whatnot?)

    5-8) All speak to Stewart's experience and ability as a driver, but are largely irrelevant to the current situation. My first question would be, that's all well and good, but how experienced or skilled is Mr. Stewart at avoiding angry pedestrians on a race track? I think you are assuming that Stewart knew Ward was on the track, and had plenty of time to take corrective action (stop driving, pull over, etc.). If there is evidence of this, then that should be the argument right? It does raise the question of why the other driver narrowly missed Ward though.

    9) I would say this is irrelevant. Ward was a moving target here. It would be just as accurate to say that based upon the video the less experienced driver got lucky.

    I don't think we have enough to condemn the man based upon the evidence I have seen. From a civil perspective, assuming we were utilizing comparative negligence in lieu of contributory, it would be a difficult sell to say Stewart had a significant portion of the fault in this case.

    I guess I would caution everyone on pulling a Tom Smykowski here.
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  • HoustonHawk82 wrote:Like driving in the snow, Stewart was on a trajectory through the corner at about half speed. By the time he saw the kid he would have had to make the only correction his muscle memory would have had and burp the throttle to try and avoid him. But it was too late.

    This kid was wearing a black driving suit and was at a place on the track that other drivers would not expect him to be. Safety policies dictate that not even track safety personnel can traverse the racing surface until the red flag, and this kid put himself in harm's way getting out of his car during the yellow. The ONLY place that a sprint car driver is safe on the track is strapped into car with roll bars around them. What this unfortunate driver did was to effectively render himself defenseless by getting out. He paid the ultimate price for it.

    Sadness should be the emotion here, not anger.


    Well said, sums it up nicely.

    Ward made a horrible horrible mistake, and unfortunately he paid the ultimate price for it. :(

    Damn, feel so bad for his family and friends. RIP
    twisted_steel2
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  • I'm done arguing about it. I don't know how anyone can vilify Stewart from what is known and what has been released.

    I was actually awake skimming my twitter feed at about 2 in the morning when I saw it reported by SportsCenter. It is a truly sad story and there are obviously no winners in this situation. I hope Ward's family is coping and has the support of the racing community in their area.
    JGfromtheNW
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  • Hey Sonic, have you ever been to a Sprint Car race?

    You should really go sometime, but wait until it's a World of Outlaws event or an ASCS event, so there will be more cars to check out. Buy the pit pass so you can walk around in the pits and sit right next to the track in the pit stands. Not sure where you live but name the general area and I'll recommend a track. If it's Seattle, it's going to be Skagit or Elma (Grey's Harbor). Ohio and Pennsylvania has the BEST sprint car racing in the east, but there are awesome tracks all over the place, even Australia.

    When you go to the pit gate and pay your $35.00 entry fee and get your pink wristband, you'll be asked to sign a document with a lot of fine print on it. They will give you copies to take home if you request it. Read it and tell me if safety regulations and conduct aren't a huge concern, and whether you think any part of the activities are anything other than "at your own risk".

    Then walk up to and, ask to assist, a young local racer unload and prepare his car. It will be fun.

    If you ask, he'll tell you that he spent $300 for one right rear tire. "Wow!?" you'll say. In fact, he'll have spent about $5,000 for a used rolling chassis (with axles and nerfs), and his used 360 motor cost him around $10,000. You can help him adjust his $450 aircraft aluminum top wing and carefully adjust his air pressure with a $100 digital gauge that reads in .25-lb increments. Help him pour the prohibitively-expensive methyl alcohol in his tank and watch as he jumps into his $750 Sparko flame retardant racing suit and cinches-up the laces of his $285.00 Simpson racing shoes and puts on his $680 Helmet. He might ask your help as he slides into his $900 racing seat with the $250, 5-point Sparko harness set and his $700 HAANS device. You'll ask yourself "why would this kid want to break the rules like that when all this money has been spent?"

    While taking all that in, and seeing the attention to detail that is put into checking every last little thing before the car leaves the pits, you can watch the etiquette displayed by the other drivers and crews putting a show on for the fans. Here the announcer say cool stuff. It's a blast.

    After he comes in and you get to smell that alcohol exhaust and hear that beasty engine rumbling the earth, you'll see the steam rolling off the tires and smell the melted rubber. After he hops out soaking in sweat you can ask him how important it is to finish as high as he can to receive the biggest payout to offset his fuel and maintenance costs. Ask how important all this money from sponsors is to his operation and how important it is to make a good showing for them, the track and fans. Ask him how important championship points are to him. Ask him what he'd do if another driver bumped into him.

    You can also ask him if a guy pinches him off and spins him out whether he would run out onto the track, abandoning all the money he and sponsors put in (not to mention a trailer and a truck and gas to pull it...) to make @$$h0le faces and gestures at a 3-time Nascar champion driver he idolizes while standing in his lane of travel. Or, if he'd just sit safely in his car until the tow truck came to snatch him up and take him to the pits. Oh, and on the way, he can wave to the crowd telling them he is okay, and may even get a mic in his face so he can thank his sponsors and he can tell the 8500 folks in the stands how cool it was to race on the same track with a 3-time NASCAR champion. And stay ahead of him for a few laps!!!

    Nope, sorry. That kid, Ward Jr., is a damn spoiled idiot. His priorities were screwed up, daddy paid for everything, he got caught up in the moment, got angry, and let his emotions ruin what could have been a great night for he and his family, and his sponsors. Spoiled hot-head brat. Sorry, but it is true. I have seen and raced with his type.

    In all seriousness, If it was my kid, I would be devastated by embarrassment. I'd apologize to Stewart for the pain my son caused him with all this BS media circus.

    If you ask me, Tony Stewart is the victim here. (and I say that, but wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.)
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  • I think something else worth mentioning is that Ward's vehicle was clipped by Stewart's right-rear tire. I thought I read somewhere that they wound up replacing Stewart's tire (can anyone confirm this?). I wonder if that had anything to do with Stewart's car fishtailing into Ward as well. Of course, that can be spun into a motive for Stewart to hit him too.

    *shrugs*....I don't know $h!t. But I don't automatically assume the worst in people or think that somebody, even a supposed hot-head like Stewart, would intentionally toy with somebody's life like that especially when he's smart enough to know damn well that he could lose the race by wrecking his vehicle and end his career in racing altogether. I think he likes winning and racing too much to do that.
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  • This is ridiculous. So many excuses for someone who drives fast for a living.
    SonicHawk
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  • If you guys admit that Stewart could possibly be at some fault I'll admit that Oj may have done it.
    SonicHawk
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  • SonicHawk wrote:This is ridiculous. So many excuses for someone who drives fast for a living.


    So many assumptions about things you don't know.
    Spounge84
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  • Spounge84 wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:This is ridiculous. So many excuses for someone who drives fast for a living.


    So many assumptions about things you don't know.


    Wait, a man is dead because a professional driver at the top of his sport ran him over during a caution lap and the assumption is that there wasn't something that went seriously wrong and negligent?
    SonicHawk
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  • HoustonHawk82 wrote:If you ask me, Tony Stewart is the victim here. (and I say that, but wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.)


    Ok, you've officially lost it. Tony squishes the head of this young idiot, but TONY's the victim. I guess when you have more to lose it should be harder to lose it right? Right?
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  • JGfromtheNW wrote:I'm done arguing about it. I don't know how anyone can vilify Stewart from what is known and what has been released.

    I was actually awake skimming my twitter feed at about 2 in the morning when I saw it reported by SportsCenter. It is a truly sad story and there are obviously no winners in this situation. I hope Ward's family is coping and has the support of the racing community in their area.


    I'm not vilifying Stewart, in my opinion it looked like he made a horrible mistake and things went horribly wrong and a man's dead. It's not like he was trying to do it, or set out to do it, all I know is this young man is dead, no matter how stupid he is.
    SonicHawk
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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    JGfromtheNW wrote:I'm done arguing about it. I don't know how anyone can vilify Stewart from what is known and what has been released.

    I was actually awake skimming my twitter feed at about 2 in the morning when I saw it reported by SportsCenter. It is a truly sad story and there are obviously no winners in this situation. I hope Ward's family is coping and has the support of the racing community in their area.


    I'm not vilifying Stewart, in my opinion it looked like he made a horrible mistake and things went horribly wrong and a man's dead. It's not like he was trying to do it, or set out to do it, all I know is this young man is dead, no matter how stupid he is.


    What I don't understand is how you can have that opinion when we don't know what happened. It is entirely possible that Stewart didn't see him. There is another camera angle that is being reviewed that might shed more light on it but at this point any opinion vindicating him or vilifying him is premature.
    bigtrain21
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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    HoustonHawk82 wrote:If you ask me, Tony Stewart is the victim here. (and I say that, but wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.)


    Ok, you've officially lost it. Tony squishes the head of this young idiot, but TONY's the victim. I guess when you have more to lose it should be harder to lose it right? Right?


    You an "eye for an eye" kinda guy, aren't you Sonic?

    I think I'm getting it: Someone dies, so somebody else has to pay.

    The payee is determined by net income, experience level, work history, and the laws of probability, without regard to the facts of the case, scientific evidence, and expert testimony?

    All righty then... :roll:
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  • The_Z_Man wrote:I don't know, I'll leave it to the authorities, but the dude must be popular...

    I haven't seen this much spin and defense by a sports community since Joe Pa messed up...

    At least with Joe Pa he was a nice guy with a stellar rep, so what happened was hard to believe.



    I think quite a bit of the spin is to counteract the people who are jumping to conclusions.
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  • Spounge84 wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:I agree, we don't know at this time. I'm not in anyway ready to throw the book at Stewart.


    Really? That's not what you said earlier today.

    SonicHawk wrote:This was involuntary manslaughter and should be prosecuted as such.


    Image


    I just want to point out that there's absolutely nothing wrong with backpedaling. All it means is that the person has an open mind and is willing to listen and think about what other people are saying. Sometimes that means they will modify their opinion...maybe slightly, or maybe a lot. Either way, people should be applauded for it because it means they are intelligent and are willing to listen to arguments and opinions. This is a fantastic trait that is shared by most highly intelligent people. It doesn't surprise me to see Sonic 'backpedal' because I know he is intelligent.
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  • SonicHawk wrote:
    Spounge84 wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:This is ridiculous. So many excuses for someone who drives fast for a living.


    So many assumptions about things you don't know.


    Wait, a man is dead because a professional driver at the top of his sport ran him over during a caution lap and the assumption is that there wasn't something that went seriously wrong and negligent?


    Oh there absolutely was negligence, recklessness and hot-headedness on display in that video. By Ward. It's impossible to draw any conclusions about Stewart's mental state or potential negligence in that video without filling in the blanks with wild speculation. You want to convict a man based on that? I hope you never end up on a jury.
    TXHawk
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  • HoustonHawk82 wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:
    HoustonHawk82 wrote:If you ask me, Tony Stewart is the victim here. (and I say that, but wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.)


    Ok, you've officially lost it. Tony squishes the head of this young idiot, but TONY's the victim. I guess when you have more to lose it should be harder to lose it right? Right?


    You an "eye for an eye" kinda guy, aren't you Sonic?

    I think I'm getting it: Someone dies, so somebody else has to pay.

    The payee is determined by net income, experience level, work history, and the laws of probability, without regard to the facts of the case, scientific evidence, and expert testimony?

    All righty then... :roll:


    No, absolutely not. And if the only evidence you had was the video (no physical, no additional angles, no testimony) there is no crime committed.

    I don't believe Tony should go to jail if it was an unavoidable tragedy, but if he took any step that would suggest he was trying to 'buzz' him, then absolutely. I have never called it murder, it's always been either manslaughter (unlikely) but more likely gross negligence if there is any charge.

    I'm just not so quick to call this just an accident.
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  • TXHawk wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:
    Spounge84 wrote:
    SonicHawk wrote:This is ridiculous. So many excuses for someone who drives fast for a living.


    So many assumptions about things you don't know.


    Wait, a man is dead because a professional driver at the top of his sport ran him over during a caution lap and the assumption is that there wasn't something that went seriously wrong and negligent?


    Oh there absolutely was negligence, recklessness and hot-headedness on display in that video. By Ward. It's impossible to draw any conclusions about Stewart's mental state or potential negligence in that video without filling in the blanks with wild speculation. You want to convict a man based on that? I hope you never end up on a jury.


    Why is the assumption because I would like to see some sort of further investigation towards manslaughter/gross negligence on the part of the police mean I'm ready to hang Stewart in the town square? There's just too much gray area.

    There is no denying that Ward's actions were beyond stupid, that doesn't mean you can't do anything about it.
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  • fenderbender123 wrote:I just want to point out that there's absolutely nothing wrong with backpedaling. All it means is that the person has an open mind and is willing to listen and think about what other people are saying. Sometimes that means they will modify their opinion...maybe slightly, or maybe a lot. Either way, people should be applauded for it because it means they are intelligent and are willing to listen to arguments and opinions. This is a fantastic trait that is shared by most highly intelligent people. It doesn't surprise me to see Sonic 'backpedal' because I know he is intelligent.


    I think we have a different definition of backpedaling. I think of backpedaling as changing one's story to try to win an argument, not changing one's mind based on new evidence. What I see Sonic doing is the former, not the latter.
    Spounge84
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  • I have no quarrel in this fight but as a person who doesn't watch much car racing, from my uninformed view of the video I feel like I can reasonably assume that Stewart intentionally tried to scare the kid a bit when he apparently hit the throttle and tried to get close to him (Stewart is one of the best drivers in the world, so he knows what he is doing). That assumption might be wrong because I simply don't know how one drives in a car like Stewart was driving, but on a first glance, that is what I thought happened.

    It happens on regular roads all the time. How many times have you seen some idiot jay walking with oncoming traffic, slowly and almost deliberately, almost rubbing it in and saying to themselves, "I'm a pedestrian...sorry you need to get to work quickly, but this is my world." (I see this crap all the time on Rainier Ave, where intersections seem to occur once ever 10 miles it seems). A lot of cars speed up to subtly say to the idiot, "move your butt." Everytime I see it, I think, someone is gonna get hit (which might explain the "Pedestrians have the right of way" sign that was recently put up on Rainier Ave)

    Regardless of whether Stewart is charged, there is going to be a big lawsuit. Get your popcorn ready.
    Last edited by huskylawyer on Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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  • Spounge84 wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:I just want to point out that there's absolutely nothing wrong with backpedaling. All it means is that the person has an open mind and is willing to listen and think about what other people are saying. Sometimes that means they will modify their opinion...maybe slightly, or maybe a lot. Either way, people should be applauded for it because it means they are intelligent and are willing to listen to arguments and opinions. This is a fantastic trait that is shared by most highly intelligent people. It doesn't surprise me to see Sonic 'backpedal' because I know he is intelligent.


    I think we have a different definition of backpedaling. I think of backpedaling as changing one's story to try to win an argument, not changing one's mind based on new evidence. What I see Sonic doing is the former, not the latter.


    What's the difference? If he feels like he's losing an argument, then he must have thought rationally about the opposing arguments, no?
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  • Watch out huskylawer, any thought that Stewart might be in the wrong in anyway will be criticized.
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  • Need more evidence. If Stewart does go to trial, I suspect he will be acquitted for exactly that reason. Reasonable doubt exists for Stewart, at least right now.

    That said, I watch the video and I see the first vehicle steer LEFT and miss the victim pretty easily. Then about a full second or two later, Stewart comes in and clearly accelerates his vehicle while jutting RIGHT as he passes the guy. Some theorize it was a fishtail loss of control that caused this turn, but some of the witnesses did not express that view. Should be interesting to see what the investigation uncovers.

    It's impossible to know if Stewart wished harm or if it was just an accident. But it did appear that there was intention there to at least scare the guy.

    I think this is kind of a "it takes two to tango thing." The victim was a moron to get out of his car and run on the track to instigate a driver in his car going at high speed in dark conditions. But watching the video, it appeared to me that there is a distinct element of intention of what Stewart did. Whether he wanted to kill the guy or just scare him we'll probably never know. If it's the latter, I would prefer he not get manslaughter as the victim played a role in the tragedy as well. I suspect it will be impossible to prove the former, despite Stewart's history of rage issues.

    Barring further evidence I would prefer to avoid judgement, even if there are a few reasons to have suspicion. Should be interesting to see how the legal process plays out.
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  • No one seems to be able to explain why Stewart would have been so angry. He didn't wreck and his car wasn't damaged. It doesn't appear from the video that the two cars even touched. The race steward didn't think they did. Stewart probably didn't even know that Ward had hit the wall since it happened behind him and these cars don't have mirrors. As far as racing deals go this was nothing, at least from Stewart's perspective.

    So why was he allegedly so damned pissed off as he came around on the caution that he wanted to teach the kid a lesson by buzzing him?
    TXHawk
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  • No one is suggesting he was angry enough to want to harm the kid, that's the unfortunate part. There's no motivation for murder, that's why it's not murder.

    There's is plenty of motivation for him to want to 'buzz' the kid. The kid was trying to show him up, be on the track, pretend like he belongs. Stewart is a competitor at the top of his game, it's not that odd for him to want to say, 'sit down kid'.
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  • TXHawk wrote:No one seems to be able to explain why Stewart would have been so angry. He didn't wreck and his car wasn't damaged. It doesn't appear from the video that the two cars even touched. The race steward didn't think they did. Stewart probably didn't even know that Ward had hit the wall since it happened behind him and these cars don't have mirrors. As far as racing deals go this was nothing, at least from Stewart's perspective.

    So why was he allegedly so damned pissed off as he came around on the caution that he wanted to teach the kid a lesson by buzzing him?

    People only see Tony portrayed one way in the media, so their assumption is that he is always acting as a hothead. And yet with some, the kid is getting a free pass for putting himself in the wrongest of places because he is a hothead.

    This idea that somebody died, so we all have to get worked up, annoys me. It was a dumb kid trying to gain entry into the Darwin awards because he was pissed off. His own personal Running of the Bulls. Is it sad? Sure. But the kid broke rules intended to keep this from happening, and paid the ultimate price.
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