Seahawks.NET AMAZON STOREFRONT

Ford newest mistake

The Lounge is for non-sport-related topics other than politics, war and religion. Order up your favorite beverage, kick back and enjoy the conversation! LANGUAGE RATING: PG-13
Ford newest mistake
Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:50 am
  • Ford is bringing back the bronco for 2020, but the mistake is no V8! And even with the one piece front axal I'm sure that they will soccer mom it up some how. A turbo 4 cycle or a twim turbo V6.
    I wish that they could give us a 350hp V8 that got 25mpg. Thats not asking for to much is it? No raptor model, no boss model, just keep it simple and manly. Simple V8,duel exhaust,and a rugged chassis,thats a little wide then a jeep.
    Cheers
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:16 am
  • Aren't modern SUVs with 6-cylinder engines capable of being basically as powerful as 80s V8 SUVs?

    Or is this a Harley Davidson thing, wherein you need to hear that "V8 sound" for it to properly be a Bronco? Lol.
    Image
    "VICTORYYYYYYY!" -Johnny Drama
    User avatar
    RolandDeschain
    * Spelling High Lord *
     
    Posts: 30026
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 8:39 am
    Location: Phoenix, AZ


Re: Ford newest mistake
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:55 am
  • With off-roading and other real 'truck stuff', the torque at the low end of the RPM range is way more important than the horsepower at the high end. Also where the torque peak happens matters. 4 and 6 cylinder engines generally shift everything to the higher RPMs, and it gets worse with turbocharged engines. In fact, horsepower is calculated by peak torque times the RPM at peak torque, so by shifting it up in the RPM range 2 engines with the same torque will have different horsepower ratings.

    So no, it's not a sound thing at all. A typical car will have way more horsepower than an 18-wheel tractor, but you sure wouldn't want to tow a loaded 40-foot flatbed with the car!
    User avatar
    GeekHawk
    US Navy ET Nuc
     
    Posts: 6498
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:29 pm
    Location: Orting WA, Great Northwet


Re: Ford newest mistake
Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:23 am
  • The V6 in my rig makes more HP and Torque than the 302 and 351 engines they put in the Bronco back in the day.
    User avatar
    fenderbender123
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4492
    Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 pm


Ford newest mistake
Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:18 pm
  • My understanding is that Ford has a 450 HP V6 available in the new Raptor p/u.

    That should do anything that that SUV wants to attempt.

    My mind says that there not going after the off road market that the Jeep dominates, although a straight axle up front makes me wonder, that’s almost a contradiction.

    Fact is, if you want an SUV with true off road/trail capabilities, you better buy a Jeep.

    Jeeps rule, all others drool.
    Image
    Image
    Image

    Just messin’ cause I’m a Jeep Nerd.
    I’m actually intrigued to see how this Bronco fairs.


    Edit:
    Want to add this.

    I know nothing about this “new” Bronco other than what I’ve read here.
    In terms of mistakes that Ford may be making....

    If this vehicle is going to have a straight axle up front, it would seem that Ford is giving up (forfeiting)
    Ride quality and handling, hence not worrying about the soccer moms and luxury SUV market.

    That leads me to believe that they are going after the “off road” trail riding market.

    The big mistakes would be.....

    Not offering the other stuff that makes a rig good off road.

    Locking Deferentials
    Properly geared transfer case
    Etc etc.

    Still, I’m intrigued.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:24 am
  • pmedic920 wrote:My understanding is that Ford has a 450 HP V6 available in the new Raptor p/u.

    That should do anything that that SUV wants to attempt.

    My mind says that there not going after the off road market that the Jeep dominates, although a straight axle up front makes me wonder, that’s almost a contradiction.

    Fact is, if you want an SUV with true off road/trail capabilities, you better buy a Jeep.

    Jeeps rule, all others drool.
    Image
    Image
    Image

    Just messin’ cause I’m a Jeep Nerd.
    I’m actually intrigued to see how this Bronco fairs.


    Edit:
    Want to add this.

    I know nothing about this “new” Bronco other than what I’ve read here.
    In terms of mistakes that Ford may be making....

    If this vehicle is going to have a straight axle up front, it would seem that Ford is giving up (forfeiting)
    Ride quality and handling, hence not worrying about the soccer moms and luxury SUV market.

    That leads me to believe that they are going after the “off road” trail riding market.

    The big mistakes would be.....

    Not offering the other stuff that makes a rig good off road.

    Locking Deferentials
    Properly geared transfer case
    Etc etc.

    Still, I’m intrigued.

    So is that is your Jeep?
    Will Dissly
    2018 Adopt a rookie
    User avatar
    IndyHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4027
    Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:42 pm


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:43 am
  • Chawker wrote:Ford is bringing back the bronco for 2020, but the mistake is no V8! And even with the one piece front axal I'm sure that they will soccer mom it up some how. A turbo 4 cycle or a twim turbo V6.
    I wish that they could give us a 350hp V8 that got 25mpg. Thats not asking for to much is it? No raptor model, no boss model, just keep it simple and manly. Simple V8,duel exhaust,and a rugged chassis,thats a little wide then a jeep.
    Cheers

    How is a twin turbo V6 or a boosted inline 4 "soccer momming". That kind of logic is absurd. Some of the most serious motor-sport vehicles in the world have these engines. The Ford GT for example had an V6 ecoboost engine in it with a twin turbo set up. The car won the LeMans race, and had 647 horsepower and 500 ft lbs of torque. It even embarrassed competitors with much larger engines. Hell, even the Mitsubishi EVO IX could get 350 with a simple tune, BACK IN 2006. That car had a 2.0 liter inline four engine with a midsize turbo set up.

    Here is the deal with modern engines. The old adage "there is no replacement for displacement" is a false statement. A car with a smaller engine, that is equipped with a small turbo that spools up quickly can have just as much torque, and just as much horsepower as a V8, with better fuel economy to boot, all while having low end torque.
    Spin Doctor
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2694
    Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:31 am


Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:46 am
  • IndyHawk wrote:So is that is your Jeep?


    Yes.

    A work in progress.

    J ust
    E mpty
    E very
    P ocket

    oIIIIIo



    Here’s a couple links on the “new” Bronco.

    Lots of speculation but nothing solid that I can find yet.
    https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/f ... r-details/

    https://www.topspeed.com/cars/here-s-ev ... 82177.html


    If in fact they opt to only produce a two/three door Bronco, I’d say they are totally forgoing the “soccer mom” market.
    Again, so far, nothing more than speculative articles are available.

    The guy that made this video clearly states that a Ford executive claims 2 & 4 door versions will be available.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:28 am
  • RolandDeschain wrote:Aren't modern SUVs with 6-cylinder engines capable of being basically as powerful as 80s V8 SUVs?

    Or is this a Harley Davidson thing, wherein you need to hear that "V8 sound" for it to properly be a Bronco? Lol.



    Where's the like button??? They have more than proved the naysayers wrong when they brought out the V6 Raptor. I'm sorry about your @#$% cylinders won't fix that.
    Image
    User avatar
    City Of Reign
    NET Starter
     
    Posts: 391
    Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:09 pm


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:03 am
  • If you go back to the success of the original bronco, it was a simple machine that was tuff and rugged, at a low cost.

    Nothing fancy here ford, Dana 60 up front, Stirling E locker in back, 302 duel exhaust, a over sized coolant system, and a 4 or 5 speed tranny or simple auto transmission. Rear tire carrier, a winch and roll bar.

    Ford needs to listen to its consumers for once, and give them what they need and not what they can sell them after the fact, otherwise this is will not end well for them. If they want the bronco to be a success the right bronco has to be delivered to the consumer.
    Cheers
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:30 am
  • Ok, four wheel'in 101: class is now in session, shut up and read quietly.

    A V8 you can lugg the motor useing the torque its very handy and important to the driver if you get into a tough situation . A high winding V6 and seven speeds has no application in off roading unless you plan on Desert racing.

    Ford is making a huge mistake on a monumental scale if a V8 is not offered to the bronco. End of story!

    GeekHawk is spot on!!! Its all about that low end torque!
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:30 am
  • Chawker wrote:If you go back to the success of the original bronco, it was a simple machine that was tuff and rugged, at a low cost.

    Nothing fancy here ford, Dana 60 up front, Stirling E locker in back, 302 duel exhaust, a over sized coolant system, and a 4 or 5 speed tranny or simple auto transmission. Rear tire carrier, a winch and roll bar.

    Ford needs to listen to its consumers for once, and give them what they need and not what they can sell them after the fact, otherwise this is will not end well for them. If they want the bronco to be a success the right bronco has to be delivered to the consumer.
    Cheers


    D60 up front????

    That’s laughable and won’t happen from the factory on a Ranger based vehicle.

    As far as “the right Bronco” goes, that’s 100% dependent on their target in the Market.

    First and foremost:
    If they are going after the Jeep crowd that uses their Jeep for its off road capabilities, they have a huge uphill battle, Jeep people in that category are pretty freaking loyal to the Jeep.

    The hipster type of Jeep folks may be an easier bunch but still pretty loyal.

    Most people don’t buy Jeep (wrangler) for its comfort, handling, or MPGs. They buy it for what it is, what it can do, the name/legacy, and the HUGE aftermarket. Similar to Harley D in that respect.

    If they target the typical mid size SUV crowd, the road will be much smoother for them.

    Maybe they will offer a couple of different versions, and they will draw from all markets.

    Couple facts in my mind.

    1) we really have no idea as to where they are headed

    2) if they want to complete with the Wrangler in the off road world, they better not hold back, they’ll have to build one Hell of a rig.

    2b) they better be ready and willing to offer a ton of support to the aftermarket manufacturers.


    Again, I’m intrigued but my expectations are very low when it comes to them producing a trail ready off road performer.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:50 am
  • Chawker wrote:Ok, four wheel'in 101: class is now in session, shut up and read quietly.

    A V8 you can lugg the motor useing the torque its very handy and important to the driver if you get into a tough situation . A high winding V6 and seven speeds has no application in off roading unless you plan on Desert racing.

    Ford is making a huge mistake on a monumental scale if a V8 is not offered to the bronco. End of story!

    GeekHawk is spot on!!! Its all about that low end torque!


    V8 Bla Bla Bla

    All depends on what you want to do.

    I’ve built 6 Suzuki Samurais for off road play.
    All of them had less than 100 HP, some less than 80.

    With the exception of deep mud or “rock bouncing “where huge amounts of wheel speed is required, my lil Samurais would out preform tons of “big” rigs.

    Gearing is as much, maybe more important than HP/torque.

    That’s not even mentioning suspension. If you can’t keep tires on the ground you have no traction.

    Power/Torque is great but the reality is, you need a complete package.
    If the thing ain’t right, power/torque only breaks the weaker links.


    Ford does not have to offer a V8, they have to build a complete, well engineered package that suits the needs of their target market.

    Not trying to argue, simply attempting to point out that a V8 isn’t necessarily what makes an off road vehicle “capable”.

    I actually hope that they do build something that will complete with the Jeep on a “trail ready” / “off road” market.

    I have my doubts but I’m hopeful.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:16 pm
  • All I know about jeeps is a 12 year old girl can roll one over in a parking lot. Every time I see a jeep roll over it makes my laugh, thats why they come with a roll bar.

    No V8 = "Soccer mommed up" That would be a good model name for the new bronco.
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:46 pm
  • Have you ever heard of a trail called "pucker ridge" ? Its just outside of Yakima wa. at rimrock meadows. They have some cool vids on youtube. I'd love to run this trail. Its a good trail to remove and swallow your seat cover useing only your ass. LOL
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:16 pm
  • Chawker wrote:Ok, four wheel'in 101: class is now in session, shut up and read quietly.

    A V8 you can lugg the motor useing the torque its very handy and important to the driver if you get into a tough situation . A high winding V6 and seven speeds has no application in off roading unless you plan on Desert racing.

    Ford is making a huge mistake on a monumental scale if a V8 is not offered to the bronco. End of story!

    GeekHawk is spot on!!! Its all about that low end torque!

    Did you not read what I said? Engines are so, that now a days a V6 set up correctly can have all the torque that you would ever need, even in the low range. You can get low end torque through a small turbo that spools up quickly. This car does not NEED a V8. As the other guy said, gearing is more important than anything.

    One of the most serious off road vehicles is the Jeep Wrangler that runs a V6 and it does just fine on the trail. Or how about the Toyota FJ40 that ran an inline six that was gutless? Or what about the Suzuki Samurai, and its tiny little, 100 horsepower engine? The original 4runner also used six cylinder engine, and is fantastic on trails. In fact the only model ever to have a V8 was the fourth generation. Every generation since uses a V6.

    But I guess that the Jeep Wrangler, FJ40, 4RUNNER, Suzuki Samurai, Jeep TJ, and Toyota Land Cruiser are all soccer mom cars.
    Spin Doctor
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2694
    Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:31 am


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:46 pm
  • Exactly!!!!!!!
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:55 pm
  • I always thought going 4 x 4ing was more about suspension and traction than engine power...
    User avatar
    fenderbender123
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4492
    Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 pm


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:40 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    Chawker wrote:Ok, four wheel'in 101: class is now in session, shut up and read quietly.

    A V8 you can lugg the motor useing the torque its very handy and important to the driver if you get into a tough situation . A high winding V6 and seven speeds has no application in off roading unless you plan on Desert racing.

    Ford is making a huge mistake on a monumental scale if a V8 is not offered to the bronco. End of story!

    GeekHawk is spot on!!! Its all about that low end torque!


    V8 Bla Bla Bla

    All depends on what you want to do.

    I’ve built 6 Suzuki Samurais for off road play.
    All of them had less than 100 HP, some less than 80.

    With the exception of deep mud or “rock bouncing “where huge amounts of wheel speed is required, my lil Samurais would out preform tons of “big” rigs.

    Gearing is as much, maybe more important than HP/torque.

    That’s not even mentioning suspension. If you can’t keep tires on the ground you have no traction.

    Power/Torque is great but the reality is, you need a complete package.
    If the thing ain’t right, power/torque only breaks the weaker links.


    Ford does not have to offer a V8, they have to build a complete, well engineered package that suits the needs of their target market.

    Not trying to argue, simply attempting to point out that a V8 isn’t necessarily what makes an off road vehicle “capable”.

    I actually hope that they do build something that will complete with the Jeep on a “trail ready” / “off road” market.

    I have my doubts but I’m hopeful.


    Yep...my 2 troopers are pretty or were pretty good vehicles. One is a 4 cyl the other a 6 cyl. The 4 cylinder was a stronger vehicle tho. 2.8 was better than the 3.0 6 cylinder.
    Go 4 low and you can climb trees.
    R.I.P. Queen.
    User avatar
    Seahawkfan80
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 8139
    Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:20 pm
    Location: A little ways from Boise.


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:54 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Chawker wrote:Ok, four wheel'in 101: class is now in session, shut up and read quietly.

    A V8 you can lugg the motor useing the torque its very handy and important to the driver if you get into a tough situation . A high winding V6 and seven speeds has no application in off roading unless you plan on Desert racing.

    Ford is making a huge mistake on a monumental scale if a V8 is not offered to the bronco. End of story!

    GeekHawk is spot on!!! Its all about that low end torque!

    Did you not read what I said? Engines are so, that now a days a V6 set up correctly can have all the torque that you would ever need, even in the low range. You can get low end torque through a small turbo that spools up quickly. This car does not NEED a V8. As the other guy said, gearing is more important than anything.

    One of the most serious off road vehicles is the Jeep Wrangler that runs a V6 and it does just fine on the trail. Or how about the Toyota FJ40 that ran an inline six that was gutless? Or what about the Suzuki Samurai, and its tiny little, 100 horsepower engine? The original 4runner also used six cylinder engine, and is fantastic on trails. In fact the only model ever to have a V8 was the fourth generation. Every generation since uses a V6.

    But I guess that the Jeep Wrangler, FJ40, 4RUNNER, Suzuki Samurai, Jeep TJ, and Toyota Land Cruiser are all soccer mom cars.


    I put over 200k miles on a Hummer H3, although I left it basically stock, it was a fairly capable vehicle.

    For the record, it had an anemic inline 5 cylinder from the Colorado/Canyon p/u line.
    That vehicle was geared pretty well @ transfer case.


    And I’ll add this.
    Very few Jeep guys go for Turbocharged.

    Many go with Super Chargers, there’s a large aftermarket for the Jeep, 2-3 really good Supercharger kits available.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:00 pm
  • Personally, I'm a naturally asperated guy myself, and altho having a back ground with alot of racing and go fast parts, prefer fews after maket parts on a good machine. Like my 2015 f 250 with the 6.2 L the only thing I changed was the exhaust, from the cats back went with duel 3" pipes and a pair of flowmaster 44 mufflers straight out the back. The mileage has improved some and enjoy the tones that it produces.

    My f250 has a E-locker in back and advance track thats like a locker up front on a dana 60. I pulled a small tree out of the ground and I was on tightly packed gravel and all 4 tires where slightly slipping. The tree was no match for the mighty ford.

    If ford deployed a 302 with 10-1 compression, a RV cam, double roller timing chain, with .125 longer rods, duel plain intake manifold, 450 cfm carb,and a good set of long tubed headers. The bronco community would love them and they would sell hugh number of them. Not big power just the right stuff.
    Cheers
    Last edited by Chawker on Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:15 pm
  • Chawker wrote:Personally, I'm a naturally asperated guy myself, and altho having a back ground with alot of racing and go fast parts, prefer fews after maket parts on a good machine. Like my 2015 f 250 with the 6.2 L the only thing I changed was the exhaust, from the cats back went with duel 3" pipes and a pair of flowmaster 44 mufflers straight out the back. The mileage has improved some and enjoy the tones that it produces.

    If ford deployed a 302 with 10-1 compression, a RV cam, double roller timing chain, with .125 longer rods, duel plain intake manifold, 450 cfm carb,and a good set of long tubed headers. The bronco community would love them and they would sell hugh number of them. Not big power just the right stuff.
    Cheers


    Don’t get me wrong, a V8 in the New Bronco would be cool.

    I’m simply saying that I don’t think it’s a make or break deal if they don’t use one, and my guess is, that with the eco boost V6 putting out the HP #s that it does, the likelihood that they go V8 is very small.
    Only way i see it happening is, if they produce a high $ special edition, and if they did that, I still see them using that 450 HP version V6 that is being offered in the Raptor.
    All pure speculation on my part.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Re: Ford newest mistake
Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:27 pm
  • A 450 hp V6 is not the thing to put into a bronco. It makes power at the wrong rpm. A 302 with a little longer rods will make gobbs of low end torque and no need to spend thousands on any deep reduction tranfer case.

    So stop badgering me about it, I'm right and you are wrong. K? LOL

    Cheers
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:33 am
  • Chawker wrote:A 450 hp V6 is not the thing to put into a bronco. It makes power at the wrong rpm. A 302 with a little longer rods will make gobbs of low end torque and no need to spend thousands on any deep reduction tranfer case.

    So stop badgering me about it, I'm right and you are wrong. K? LOL

    Cheers


    Ok but

    375 HP
    475 ftp of torque

    In the F150 (not raptor) it is rated to pull over 13,000 lbs

    I could find torque curve graphs for you but at 13k tow rating, my guess is that this engine has plenty of “low end” for any small/mid size SUV, even one that claims to be “off road” capable.

    Fact is, I’d love to have that thing (or the 450hp) in my Jeep, if there’s a way to “get r done” I’ll be looking as an option over the LS/Hemi swap when the time comes.
    FWIW, I’m basically a GM guy, so for me that’s saying something.
    Image

    But you are right, and I’m wrong.
    I’ll shut up now.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:36 am
  • One last time, "LOW END TORQUE " If you'd like to continue this, show me your low end torque chart that say how your big and powerful V6 has more torque then a V8. "LOW END TORQUE"
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:43 am
  • Chawker wrote:One last time, "LOW END TORQUE " If you'd like to continue this, show me your low end torque chart that say how your big and powerful V6 has more torque then a V8. "LOW END TORQUE"


    I’m not trying to argue with you, I’m attempting to have a conversation.

    Trust me, I fully understand “low end torque” and how it may relate to a vehicle like the Bronco or a Wrangler.

    What I was attempting to point out to you is, the V6 that I mentioned is rated to pull over 13,000 lbs in a half ton P/U.

    Guess I mistakenly assumed that you would understand that that translates to some available “low end torque”

    I get the feeling that you mistakenly assume that the only way “low end torque” is available is, with a V8. If that’s the case, you are in fact mistaken, and it would seem that you’re stuck in the 70s hot rod frame of mind.

    Again, not trying to argue, trying to have conversation, and share information.

    If you care enough, research some statistics on your own, doesn’t seem you’re open to any input from me.

    V6 rated to pull over 13k in a full size P/U = “low end torque” no matter how you slice it.
    I’d agree that some of that may come from gearing but that goes back to my earlier comments about a “complete package”

    BTW, in case you don’t understand, it takes “low end torque” to get 13,000 lbs on a trailer rolling, and I never claimed that any V6 had more available torque than any V8.
    I implied that this particular V6 had substantial, plenty, enough “low end torque” to suit the needs of the new Bronco.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:17 am
  • My favorite bronco was my 88' with a 300ci straight six and 4speed. It wasn't going to win any races, but it was a champion offroad. Give me low end torque, low gears and lockers any way you can give it to me whether it's a straight six, v6, v8, rotary... don't care. Preferably naturally aspirated.
    2018 Adopt a Rookie: Rashaad Penny

    Image
    User avatar
    Sox-n-Hawks
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2223
    Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:26 am


Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:43 am
  • And FWIW

    I’d LOVE to see Ford put a V8 and Dana 60s in this “new” Bronco.

    Won’t happen and I’ll bet anyone here a 6 pack on it but I’d LOVE to see it.

    Might force Jeep to up the game a bit.

    1 ton axles, V8, and 40 inch tires is most Jeep Guys dream.


    Edit:
    Even with Junk yard axels and engine, that’s a 15-20k dream.

    If you bought pre-built “bolt on” axles, and a “crate” LS or Hemi, your looking at 35k and up, 55-60k is not unheard of if you have one of the nationally known Jeep shops do the work.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:49 am
  • pmedic920 wrote:And FWIW

    I’d LOVE to see Ford put a V8 and Dana 60s in this “new” Bronco.

    Won’t happen and I’ll bet anyone here a 6 pack on it but I’d LOVE to see it.

    Might force Jeep to up the game a bit.

    1 ton axles, V8, and 40 inch tires is most Jeep Guys dream.


    And a stock split transfer case with twin sticks!
    2018 Adopt a Rookie: Rashaad Penny

    Image
    User avatar
    Sox-n-Hawks
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2223
    Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:26 am


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:53 am
  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:And FWIW

    I’d LOVE to see Ford put a V8 and Dana 60s in this “new” Bronco.

    Won’t happen and I’ll bet anyone here a 6 pack on it but I’d LOVE to see it.

    Might force Jeep to up the game a bit.

    1 ton axles, V8, and 40 inch tires is most Jeep Guys dream.


    And a stock split transfer case with twin sticks!



    Yep, might as well throw in the Atlas too.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:57 am
  • What's an engine? Engine ain't nothin' but a device to produce energy.
    What's an ideal engine? A device that is smallest, lightest , uses least to produce the most.

    Image
    Image

    So, want torque? want low down torque? lots of them torque? Get twin turbo V6 IF the choice is limited to Ford's V8 or ecoboost V6.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    ++ You can call me a homer, but I am not the only one ++
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    toffee
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1229
    Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:44 pm


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:17 am
  • toffee wrote:What's an engine? Engine ain't nothin' but a device to produce energy.
    What's an ideal engine? A device that is smallest, lightest , uses least to produce the most.

    Image
    Image

    So, want torque? want low down torque? lots of them torque? Get twin turbo V6 IF the choice is limited to Ford's V8 or ecoboost V6.


    Stop making sense.
    Please stop.

    :{)
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:55 am
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    toffee wrote:What's an engine? Engine ain't nothin' but a device to produce energy.
    What's an ideal engine? A device that is smallest, lightest , uses least to produce the most.

    Image
    Image

    So, want torque? want low down torque? lots of them torque? Get twin turbo V6 IF the choice is limited to Ford's V8 or ecoboost V6.


    Stop making sense.
    Please stop.

    :{)


    Too bad no one, not even Tesla is making an electric off roader, a 100KW Tesla has something like 920 lb-ft of torque. Want them torque down low? How many all of them 920 lb-ft at 1 rpm? ALL OF THEM.

    But wait, it ain't no V8, so them torque don't count.

    V8 V8 V8 V8 V8 and must be a flat head V8 to be a proper Ford V8, Electric cars are of course for pussies, chick car, *mod edit•whinny mobile. No doubt about it.

    https://jalopnik.com/here-is-how-much-t ... 00d-makes-
    o-1792688704

    Edit
    No need for those labels in here.
    Besides the fact that it breaks the rules.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    ++ You can call me a homer, but I am not the only one ++
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    toffee
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1229
    Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:44 pm


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:10 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Chawker wrote:Ford is bringing back the bronco for 2020, but the mistake is no V8! And even with the one piece front axal I'm sure that they will soccer mom it up some how. A turbo 4 cycle or a twim turbo V6.
    I wish that they could give us a 350hp V8 that got 25mpg. Thats not asking for to much is it? No raptor model, no boss model, just keep it simple and manly. Simple V8,duel exhaust,and a rugged chassis,thats a little wide then a jeep.
    Cheers

    How is a twin turbo V6 or a boosted inline 4 "soccer momming". That kind of logic is absurd. Some of the most serious motor-sport vehicles in the world have these engines. The Ford GT for example had an V6 ecoboost engine in it with a twin turbo set up. The car won the LeMans race, and had 647 horsepower and 500 ft lbs of torque. It even embarrassed competitors with much larger engines. Hell, even the Mitsubishi EVO IX could get 350 with a simple tune, BACK IN 2006. That car had a 2.0 liter inline four engine with a midsize turbo set up.

    Here is the deal with modern engines. The old adage "there is no replacement for displacement" is a false statement. A car with a smaller engine, that is equipped with a small turbo that spools up quickly can have just as much torque, and just as much horsepower as a V8, with better fuel economy to boot, all while having low end torque.



    "there is no replacement for displacement"

    This statement was created for a few reasons:

    1. Cheap, make that very cheap! A lot cheaper to increase stroke or bore than to research, engineer more efficient means.,
    2. Lazy, make that very lazy! Lacking in engineering curiosity, ain't broken why improve efficiency.
    3. Slogan created to cover 1 & 2 by demeaning more advanced engines, calling them chicks, finesse, no hair on chest, and yes soccer mom.

    1=bean counters.
    2=engineers
    3=marketing

    Of course some bought into that, but the end result? General Motors, the company that invented and promoted the "there is no replacement for displacement", is currently ranked as #5 in the world, behind "soccer moms" of #1 VW, #2 Toyota, #3 Renault-Nissan, #4 Hyundai-Kia, LOL, Ford is #6.

    Got to remember when "there is no replacement for displacement" was promoted in the '50s and '60s, GM was #1 and produced almost as many as the rest combine.

    https://www.drivespark.com/four-wheeler ... 20233.html

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    ++ You can call me a homer, but I am not the only one ++
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    toffee
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1229
    Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:44 pm


Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:53 pm
  • Thank you for that chart which proofs I was right about the 302 having better low end torque then the V6. Less than 1000 rpm. Blue vs green line, far left side. To much torque is not a good thing when off roading unless you want to lose traction?

    Now unless you are here to just argue with me I have bigger fish too fry.

    I've seen on youtube people that has dropped a 302 c.i.d or 5.0 L" coyote" into a 1st gen bronco and they love the performance that it produces. The 302 is one of the best engines ford has ever produced.
    Cheers


    Edit:
    By staff
    No need for the name calling.
    This is a civil conversation, and not the Shack.
    Slow you’re roll Bro Tater
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:25 pm
  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:My favorite bronco was my 88' with a 300ci straight six and 4speed. It wasn't going to win any races, but it was a champion offroad. Give me low end torque, low gears and lockers any way you can give it to me whether it's a straight six, v6, v8, rotary... don't care. Preferably naturally aspirated.


    Ahhh, the great 300 striate 6 ! Another great ford engine with a good torque curve. I'd believe that a striate 6 would have better low end torque over a V6 any day. Its like when I was a kid the ol timers raved about the old striate 8's for stump pulling low end torque.

    Any V6 is just not the right stuff, you can talk until you're blue in the face but the right stuff for a bronco would be the 300 striate 6 or the 302.
    Cheers
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:46 pm
  • I prefer to drive a off road vehicle with precise throttle control which is the way "most" level headed american's do it, rather then blow there tires lose on rocks,gravel and dirt. That can lead the average drives getting in a very bad situation or people getting hurt because they weren't smart enough to start with. Torque and horsepower is a good thing, but like all things in moderation.
    A high powered V6 is NOT the answer for the bronco. Why mess with perfection. Please ford give us a 302.
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:20 pm
  • Chawker wrote:I prefer to drive a off road vehicle with precise throttle control which is the way "most" level headed american's do it, rather then blow there tires lose on rocks,gravel and dirt. That can lead the average drives getting in a very bad situation or people getting hurt because they weren't smart enough to start with. Torque and horsepower is a good thing, but like all things in moderation.
    A high powered V6 is NOT the answer for the bronco. Why mess with perfection. Please ford give us a 302.


    Or a Twin Turbo “Eco-Coyote”


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Adopt a Rookie: Rashaad Penny

    Image
    User avatar
    Sox-n-Hawks
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2223
    Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:26 am


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:45 am
  • If ford wants to see these vehicles sell, then a 302 has to be an option. I can understand a V6 as a mileage replacement for the 302, but forget the turbo option. No raptor version, no boss, just a lovable and straight forward good ol bronco. ("keep it simple") After that, ford did say that the front axle was going to be a dana which is a good thing. And most of the hidden photos do show a spare tire mount out back. It would be nice to have a set of lockers, like what I have with my f 250. I believe the best gear ratio for the bronco would be a set of 3.50 gears.
    If ford doesn't get the bronco right this time it will be doomed forevermore.
    Cheers
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:57 am
  • With all the hype surrounding it, I sure hope it’s something cool.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Adopt a Rookie: Rashaad Penny

    Image
    User avatar
    Sox-n-Hawks
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2223
    Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:26 am


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:03 am
  • Sorry, I forgot to say to pmedic920, sweet look'in jeep!

    And sorry to everybody else for being a ford guy, I was borned with this affection.

    If ford doesn't get it right I'll be in the smack shack camped out for at least a week straight.
    Cheers
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Ford newest mistake
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:10 am
  • Chawker wrote:Sorry, I forgot to say to pmedic920, sweet look'in jeep!

    And sorry to everybody else for being a ford guy, I was borned with this affection.

    If ford doesn't get it right I'll be in the smack shack camped out for at least a week straight.
    Cheers


    Thank you for the compliment.

    I do however feel the need to point out a couple things,and ask a couple of questions before I’m finished here.

    You said way up thread that you wanted a V8 with a 450 cfm carburetor in this New Bronco, just out of curiosity, why would/do you want that?

    You also feel like the graphs that were provided prove your point.
    Image
    Because @ 1000 rpms the V8 has more torque.
    At what RPM range do you think these engines are set to idle?

    How much throttle input (stepping on the pedal) do you think it would take to bump up to say 15-1600 RPMs?

    What do you see in the graph for these engines @ 15-1600 RPMs?

    Do you consider, say 1500-1700 RPMs still @ the “low end”?

    You also said that you would like to see 350 gears in the “New Bronco”.
    Would/could you elaborate on that thought a little bit?

    What size tires do you think Ford will ship the Broncos with?

    What size tires do you think people will want to run on the Bronco? I ask that because let’s face the fact, 99.9% of the “off road folks” will run, or want to run bigger tires than what Ford offers.

    You also haven’t mentioned anything about “traction control”, almost all of the the newer rigs have some form or another of computerized “traction control”.

    Do you have an opinion on that aspect of the New Bronco?

    Although it may sound unkind and that’s not what I want it to be, I’m not trying to be mean, I don’t think you really know what you want here, or why you want it.

    A carbureted V8 with 350 gears inside of Dana 60s on this New Bronco just sounds like a terrible idea too me. Sounds bad for a grocery getter, sounds even worse for off road applications.

    It’s easy to get stuck in our ways, and I’m one of the worst for that.
    I’d love for you to elaborate on this stuff, because quite frankly I’m beginning to realize that I could benefit from learning new stuff.
    They say you can’t teach an old dog but I’m willing to let you have a go at it.

    Edit:
    I’m trying to say, that maybe it’s my thick head.
    You may have perfectly good reason for wanting what you want, and I’m just not “getting it”.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:22 am
  • Lon, heck yeah! Let’s talk about some technology and things we’d want to see. I’ll let Chawker dig his hole....

    However, if we’re talking about new technology I’d LOVE a camera at all four corners maybe an off-road visibility package where you could have a view of exactly where your tire placement is as well.

    A stock onboard air system

    Bluetooth activated remote start

    Heated steering wheel

    Integrated off-road lighting system front, side and rear



    Old school wish list number one: put the damned dimmer switch back on the floor!





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Adopt a Rookie: Rashaad Penny

    Image
    User avatar
    Sox-n-Hawks
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2223
    Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:26 am


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:16 am
  • A lot of good questions 920!

    A 302 with engine components I said, or any small block V8 runs what we would consider basically "stock" doesn't need anything over a 450 cfm carburetor. I know that there is a formula to work it out I did it in my first year of college.
    Today everything is fuel injection.

    Tire and wheel sizes thats hard to tell you, but I could guess at maybe 16" rims and tires 245 R16 75 for stock. I'd prefer 35" tires but ford like selling consumer those lift kits.

    My definition of low end is the first hit of the throttle, so yes, below 1000 rpms. If you look at that torque chart the 302 has a nice and gradual increase, thats why the 302 has the right stuff, its perfection. I'm a purest, This goes back to building motors, if you can, to maximize performance by "matching" horsepower and torque. In this case it would be between 350 and 400. Say at 6500rpm to 7000rpm range. Perfection!

    The 3.50 gear has been fords "bread and butter" when trying to maximizing it performance on most all models, no overdrives needed.

    Yes, I do expect that they will come with traction control and an E-locker like my f 250 with advance track.

    Its hard to say what those engineers are going to do, but given there past track record they'll get something wrong thats for sure.


    P.S. There is a difference between "a typical V8" and the 302 V8. It was a nice try though! Try comparing torque on the right chart just so the waters don't get so muddy. Ok bud!
    Cheers
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Ford newest mistake
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:50 am
  • Sox-n-Hawks wrote:Lon, heck yeah! Let’s talk about some technology and things we’d want to see. I’ll let Chawker dig his hole....

    However, if we’re talking about new technology I’d LOVE a camera at all four corners maybe an off-road visibility package where you could have a view of exactly where your tire placement is as well.

    A stock onboard air system

    Bluetooth activated remote start

    Heated steering wheel

    Integrated off-road lighting system front, side and rear



    Old school wish list number one: put the damned dimmer switch back on the floor!





    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    Funny you mentioned the dimmer switch.
    Had a conversation just the other day, was with a young person that thought I was lying / jacking with them. Same person had never been in a vehicle that required actually cranking the windows up/down. Had no clue what a “wing” window was.

    I’m actually torn on some of the new technology stuff. Lots of it is a nice convenience but it’s a bitch to fix when the warranty runs out.
    It also sucks when multiple systems are tried together making several things go haywire when one doesn’t work correctly.

    The thing that I think is most important is....

    What do you want your vehicle for, what are you really going to do with it?
    Do you want your vehicle to be good at multitasking?
    If so, what percentage of this/that are you looking for.
    In the case of this Bronco, who/what is Fords target market?
    We just don’t know yet because they haven’t said.

    In my personal case with my Jeep.
    Although it’s not my only vehicle, it is my daily driver. I commute 1.5 hours one way to Houston in it a minimum of 9or 10 days a month. 95% of my commute is at speeds of 55mph or greater, about 80% of that trip is on a highway w/75 mph speed limit.
    The Jeep Wrangler is by far, not the best vehicle for that purpose, and I could easily list a bunch of reasons why.
    I did buy the Wrangler because I wanted a multi purpose vehicle, and I’ve modified it to be better on the off road side of things than it already was from the factory.
    I still have a long list of modifications that I want, and intend on doing but they are expensive and take time. Those mods are geared towards being even more “off road” capable, and will effect how good it is on the road as a daily driver.

    Guess the point I’m trying to make is, this stuff Jeep, Bronco, Hummer, or even a P/U truck, it really all boils down to what do you want your vehicle to do? What do want it to be good at?

    The fact is, with this type of vehicle, most of the time, something that makes it better off road makes it worse on the road, and vise versa.

    Perfect example.
    Independent front suspension.
    Makes a vehicle much better on the road, smoother ride and better handling but is not as good as a straight axle, in off road situations.

    Big tires?
    Off road you need and want them but they aren’t great on the road.
    Big tires, anything bigger than what the factory engineered and provided are going to change things up. The bigger the tire the more things change, and more modifications are required.

    It really all boils down to Balance, and what do you want from your vehicle.
    For me, that’s about 85% on road, 15% off road but my “off road” gets fairly gnarly at times, so I’ve made some minor sacrifices to my on road experience in order to preform better off road.

    In terms of the Jeep Wrangler, Jeep has provided an awesome base platform to do whatever you want but it’s been an evolution. The aftermarket has had many years to get up to speed.

    I bought my Jeep Wrangler Rubicon New last year, as it was when I bought it, it would not have been a bad vehicle for a small family but there are several better choices IMHO.
    I bought the Jeep because of what I was going to turn it into, and eventually that will be a vehicle much better suited off road than on.

    In this case with the New Ford Bronco, it’s a matter of who is Fords target audience?
    Do they truly want to compete with the Jeep, if so, what segment of the Jeep market.

    Do they want to compete with the luxury SUV guys like RangeRover, BMW, Lexus etc.

    Those are questions we just don’t have answers too, and Ford May only answer them by showing us what they have to offer, they may never admit to an actual target, they may let the market drive them one way or the other.

    There’s a ton of vehicles that offer “4 wheel drive” but will never be great “off road” rigs.

    If you go for the right model Jeep has a decent, and fairly capable offering for “off road” but it’s the aftermarket modifications that allow the Jeep to be a great “off road” vehicle. What the Jeep Wrangler is, it’s a great, almost perfect “base” or “foundation” for folks to do what the want with.

    Fact is, there’s more than one type of “off road”, and if you want a rig to be great at one type, it probably won’t be great at another.
    Mud, Rocks, Trails, Sand etc etc.

    Fact is, if you want a rig to be great off road, it’s not going to be “great” on the road.

    Fact is, if Ford wants to compete with Jeep, they need to offer a good base, they will need to offer a ton of support to the aftermarket, and they better pray they get the support in return.

    If Ford has no interest in competing with the Jeep “Wrangler”, and is going up against all the other SUVs out there, well they just need to build a good/great SUV.
    Ford has bazillion loyalist that have been buying whatever alternatives they can find in this type of vehicle.

    That’s my 2,3,4&5
    :{)
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:56 am
  • At this point I'm done arguing with you guys. If you want a high horsepower V6, you must like those spinning wheels and thats your thing. More power to ya! But it not smart. You are why I don't like helping pull jeep out. You don't even know fords you're just here for the argument at my expense. I guess that makes you likeable?
    SUPERBOWL CHAMPIONS XLVIII 43-8

    Better to have a bottle in front of me,then a frontly lobotmy.
    User avatar
    Chawker
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2018
    Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:18 am
    Location: corner of 40th & plum


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:14 am
  • Chawker wrote:A lot of good questions 920!

    A 302 with engine components I said, or any small block V8 runs what we would consider basically "stock" doesn't need anything over a 450 cfm carburetor. I know that there is a formula to work it out I did it in my first year of college.
    Today everything is fuel injection.

    Tire and wheel sizes thats hard to tell you, but I could guess at maybe 16" rims and tires 245 R16 75 for stock. I'd prefer 35" tires but ford like selling consumer those lift kits.

    My definition of low end is the first hit of the throttle, so yes, below 1000 rpms. If you look at that torque chart the 302 has a nice and gradual increase, thats why the 302 has the right stuff, its perfection. I'm a purest, This goes back to building motors, if you can, to maximize performance by "matching" horsepower and torque. In this case it would be between 350 and 400. Say at 6500rpm to 7000rpm range. Perfection!

    The 3.50 gear has been fords "bread and butter" when trying to maximizing it performance on most all models, no overdrives needed.

    Yes, I do expect that they will come with traction control and an E-locker like my f 250 with advance track.

    Its hard to say what those engineers are going to do, but given there past track record they'll get something wrong thats for sure.


    P.S. There is a difference between "a typical V8" and the 302 V8. It was a nice try though! Try comparing torque on the right chart just so the waters don't get so muddy. Ok bud!
    Cheers


    Thanks for the response.

    With any due respect it’s become obvious that you really don’t know what your you’re talking about here.
    It’s clear you have an opinion, and you’re perfectly welcome to it but for the life of me, I can’t figure out what that opinion is based on.

    I’m not an automotive engineer, I’m not a mechanic, I’m barely a “shade tree” parts changer, and even I can see some huge holes or gaps in your thought process on this topic.

    This New Bronco is definitely intriguing to me, and I’ll be keeping my eye on how things progress with it.

    I appreciate you posting the topic, thank you and good day, Kind Sir.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Ford newest mistake
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:16 am
  • Chawker wrote:At this point I'm done arguing with you guys. If you want a high horsepower V6, you must like those spinning wheels and thats your thing. More power to ya! But it not smart. You are why I don't like helping pull jeep out. You don't even know fords you're just here for the argument at my expense. I guess that makes you likeable?


    Ha, Seems like we’ve ended up at the same place in time.

    Funny how things work out ain’t it?

    Cheers, GoHawks.


    Edit
    Don’t forget this is your thread, and you are the one that claimed it would be a mistake for Ford to not offer a V8.

    Beat those Rams.
    ITS A GREAT TIME TO BE A SEAHAWK FAN !
    User avatar
    pmedic920
    * .NET Official Stache *
     
    Posts: 17190
    Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:37 am
    Location: On the lake, Livingston Texas


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:38 am
  • You boys have fun with your cute jeeps and gas engines... Ill stick with my F 350 and the 7.3 diesel .
    User avatar
    Ambrose83
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 722
    Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:54 pm


Re: Ford newest mistake
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:39 am
  • Land Rover is bringing out a new Defender too. That could be interesting. But probably out of my price range!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2018 Adopt a Rookie: Rashaad Penny

    Image
    User avatar
    Sox-n-Hawks
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2223
    Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:26 am


Next


It is currently Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:03 am

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE .NET LOUNGE ]




Information
  • Who is online
  • Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests