Mass Shootings

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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:42 am
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    massari wrote:Gun violence isn't even in the same realm with the effects alcohol has on society, yet it's everyone's top priority and the hottest topic.

    Alcohol related deaths in the US each year: 88,000

    Non suicide gun deaths each year: 13,000 - Haven't looked in depth here as to how many of these shooters are under the influence of alcohol, how many of these deaths are self defense, and how many of these shooters are gang bangers killing other gang bangers?


    "In addition to the shocking number of deaths linked to alcohol, there are a number of other social and public health problems tied to the freedom to consume these products. The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism says more than 10 percent of children in the United States live with at least one parent suffering from alcoholism, and an article published by the American Journal of Preventative Medicine estimates the total national and state cost of “excessive alcohol consumption” in 2010 was $249 billion. Other problems include rampant use of alcohol by teenagers, alcohol-related domestic violence, and countless other societal ills." https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... n-alcohol/


    How may of these killers drink alcohol regularly or have been seriously intoxicated?

    Still think all the Med's for prescribed nowadays has a negative (possible irreversible) impact to people's brains.

    I'd be willing to bet almost all of them had used marijuana somewhat recently too.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:58 am
  • Good point, @tical21. Why is no-one talking about the obvious marijuana connection to mass shootings?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:51 am
  • Tical21 wrote:
    Wenhawk wrote:
    massari wrote:Gun violence isn't even in the same realm with the effects alcohol has on society, yet it's everyone's top priority and the hottest topic.

    Alcohol related deaths in the US each year: 88,000

    Non suicide gun deaths each year: 13,000 - Haven't looked in depth here as to how many of these shooters are under the influence of alcohol, how many of these deaths are self defense, and how many of these shooters are gang bangers killing other gang bangers?


    "In addition to the shocking number of deaths linked to alcohol, there are a number of other social and public health problems tied to the freedom to consume these products. The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism says more than 10 percent of children in the United States live with at least one parent suffering from alcoholism, and an article published by the American Journal of Preventative Medicine estimates the total national and state cost of “excessive alcohol consumption” in 2010 was $249 billion. Other problems include rampant use of alcohol by teenagers, alcohol-related domestic violence, and countless other societal ills." https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... n-alcohol/


    How may of these killers drink alcohol regularly or have been seriously intoxicated?

    Still think all the Med's for prescribed nowadays has a negative (possible irreversible) impact to people's brains.

    I'd be willing to bet almost all of them had used marijuana somewhat recently too.


    And most of them have also eaten potatoes at least once in their lives. Proof positive!!
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:07 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:And most of them have also eaten potatoes at least once in their lives. Proof positive!!

    And potatoes are used to make Vodka, the circle is closed.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:38 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:The difference is just about all Americans have been and will continue to be perfectly willing to listen to and change our state and federal drinking laws. Just as we've done over the years raising legal drinking ages and lowering DUI limits.

    There is no energy and political side to any other safety concern, so why is there with guns and the 2nd Amendment?

    IMO that's really at the heart of this matter. We can argue all day long about what's worse than guns, but no one's up in arms (literally) over changing seatbelt laws, drinking laws, health laws, car safety regulations, etc.........but for some reason we sure are hell are with gun laws.

    That is just a non starter with a very large population of politicians and voters.


    The difference is it's the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution i.e. a Right, not a Privilege. As such restrictions are limited to Time, Place, and Manner a much higher bar than the other things you mentioned. Many of the 'common sense' ideas people throw out don't meet that bar and even the 9th Circus has acknowledged it.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:05 pm
  • Osprey wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:The difference is just about all Americans have been and will continue to be perfectly willing to listen to and change our state and federal drinking laws. Just as we've done over the years raising legal drinking ages and lowering DUI limits.

    There is no energy and political side to any other safety concern, so why is there with guns and the 2nd Amendment?

    IMO that's really at the heart of this matter. We can argue all day long about what's worse than guns, but no one's up in arms (literally) over changing seatbelt laws, drinking laws, health laws, car safety regulations, etc.........but for some reason we sure are hell are with gun laws.

    That is just a non starter with a very large population of politicians and voters.


    The difference is it's the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution i.e. a Right, not a Privilege. As such restrictions are limited to Time, Place, and Manner a much higher bar than the other things you mentioned. Many of the 'common sense' ideas people throw out don't meet that bar and even the 9th Circus has acknowledged it.


    This doesn't excuse the weird energy and vitriol that changing gun laws invokes in people. It goes WAY beyond just being an Amendment, of which we've changed (as well as others) many times since the late 1700's when the Bill of Rights was written.

    So again, why is THIS so divisive? It's not just it being an Amendment, most people are just fine with amending and changing the other Amendments. But nope, not this one.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:08 pm
  • The Second Amendment protects the 1st, and I'm just not talking about AR's & AK's.


    The Second Amendment protects a fundamental right and should be read broadly because it implements the right of self-defense. Self-defense is the ultimate right of all individuals to preserve life. The rights to a free press, free speech, assembly, and religion are extremely important — but none of them matters very much if you can’t defend your own life against aggression. None of them matters very much when a government is fully armed and its citizens are disarmed.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:19 pm
  • 2_0_6 wrote:The Second Amendment protects the 1st, and I'm just not talking about AR's & AK's.


    The Second Amendment protects a fundamental right and should be read broadly because it implements the right of self-defense. Self-defense is the ultimate right of all individuals to preserve life. The rights to a free press, free speech, assembly, and religion are extremely important — but none of them matters very much if you can’t defend your own life against aggression. None of them matters very much when a government is fully armed and its citizens are disarmed.


    Right to healthcare?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:21 pm
  • pehawk wrote:
    2_0_6 wrote:The Second Amendment protects the 1st, and I'm just not talking about AR's & AK's.


    The Second Amendment protects a fundamental right and should be read broadly because it implements the right of self-defense. Self-defense is the ultimate right of all individuals to preserve life. The rights to a free press, free speech, assembly, and religion are extremely important — but none of them matters very much if you can’t defend your own life against aggression. None of them matters very much when a government is fully armed and its citizens are disarmed.


    Right to healthcare?



    Whatever you want chief. The world is yours.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:38 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:This doesn't excuse the weird energy and vitriol that changing gun laws invokes in people. It goes WAY beyond just being an Amendment, of which we've changed (as well as others) many times since the late 1700's when the Bill of Rights was written.

    So again, why is THIS so divisive? It's not just it being an Amendment, most people are just fine with amending and changing the other Amendments. But nope, not this one.


    Might want to study up on your history. 17 times (post Bill of Rights) in 228 years with several being related so really fewer topics than that. Not a one was ratified without years of debate.

    As 206 points out, there's a reason it's in the Constitution. If you disagree with that reasoning start a movement for a Constitutional Amendment and stop trying to subvert a Constitutionally protected Right by unconstitutional means.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:56 pm
  • Osprey wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:This doesn't excuse the weird energy and vitriol that changing gun laws invokes in people. It goes WAY beyond just being an Amendment, of which we've changed (as well as others) many times since the late 1700's when the Bill of Rights was written.

    So again, why is THIS so divisive? It's not just it being an Amendment, most people are just fine with amending and changing the other Amendments. But nope, not this one.


    Might want to study up on your history. 17 times (post Bill of Rights) in 228 years with several being related so really fewer topics than that. Not a one was ratified without years of debate.

    As 206 points out, there's a reason it's in the Constitution. If you disagree with that reasoning start a movement for a Constitutional Amendment and stop trying to subvert a Constitutionally protected Right by unconstitutional means.


    The authors of that amendment were assholes. They didnt have cell phones
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:00 pm
  • pehawk wrote:
    Osprey wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:This doesn't excuse the weird energy and vitriol that changing gun laws invokes in people. It goes WAY beyond just being an Amendment, of which we've changed (as well as others) many times since the late 1700's when the Bill of Rights was written.

    So again, why is THIS so divisive? It's not just it being an Amendment, most people are just fine with amending and changing the other Amendments. But nope, not this one.


    Might want to study up on your history. 17 times (post Bill of Rights) in 228 years with several being related so really fewer topics than that. Not a one was ratified without years of debate.

    As 206 points out, there's a reason it's in the Constitution. If you disagree with that reasoning start a movement for a Constitutional Amendment and stop trying to subvert a Constitutionally protected Right by unconstitutional means.


    The authors of that amendment were assholes. They didnt have cell phones


    Yeah they didn't even have click to chat yet, telegraph was a few years down the road still.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:33 pm
  • I own several firearms and would be perfectly fine with more strict gun laws. Make me do a background check every time I buy a gun, don't care I will pass.

    Having said that. There are to many people in this world anyway so I really don't care about mass shootings.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:39 am
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:15 am
  • KitsapGuy wrote:


    Interesting. Common sense says that’s a riffle.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:18 am
  • XxXdragonXxX wrote:I own several firearms and would be perfectly fine with more strict gun laws. Make me do a background check every time I buy a gun, don't care I will pass.

    Having said that. There are to many people in this world anyway so I really don't care about mass shootings.

    Hmmmm, mass shootings as a form of natural population control. I dig it.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:11 am
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    KitsapGuy wrote:


    Interesting. Common sense says that’s a riffle.



    In some states, if that's classified as a rifle you only have to be 18 to buy it. Since it's a "pistol" you need to be 21.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:26 am
  • Yeah I'm not sure what the point of that article is. Classifying a firearm as a pistol instead of a rifle makes it harder to buy.

    The article makes it sound like the legal classification makes the gun easier to conceal.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:40 am
  • Gun on left: 18+ to buy
    Gun on right: 21+ to buy

    Same bullet, same mags, different classification by the ATF.

    Image
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:02 am
  • Sarlacc83 wrote:*yawn* At least, given your response (and despite your obvious protests otherwise), I can tell that hit home since you doubled down on it.

    I don't even understand this response tbh.

    Me: stating a fact that alcohol dwarfs guns in terms of negative effects towards a society yet guns are the hotter topic because media and politics have decided it to be.

    You: rambling about "stupid guns" and the 2nd amendment while delusionally assuming my stance and motive.

    Image
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:05 am
  • Haha @sarlacc83
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:46 am
  • massari wrote:
    Sarlacc83 wrote:*yawn* At least, given your response (and despite your obvious protests otherwise), I can tell that hit home since you doubled down on it.

    I don't even understand this response tbh.

    Me: stating a fact that alcohol dwarfs guns in terms of negative effects towards a society yet guns are the hotter topic because media and politics have decided it to be.

    You: rambling about "stupid guns" and the 2nd amendment while delusionally assuming my stance and motive.

    Image


    It's not some light over our heads that guns are more popular in the media and with politics than other societal ills. You know why? Because people aren't killing dozens of people in an hour by drinking a beer or running around with a bottle of Stoli. Moreover, no politician is getting elected / booted out of office based on their stance whether drinking is good or bad. (Well, at least not nationally. Maybe in the Deep South). Based on that, I figured it was the commonly used diversionary tactic that shows up in these threads. Well, what about cars and accidents? What about alcohol? What about; what about....

    But you know what? I can see your not understanding my response. I took your calling me an alcoholic and a crackpot is as a sign that you were annoyed by the implications of the post. I figured I'd rub it in a little bit. You seem to think you were merely being reasonable; I thought I'd try to rile you (and the pro 2A people up in this thread) up a bit. It appears that we've talked past each other. So, care to start over? I'll even acknowledge that I went overboard and apologize for it.
    Last edited by Sarlacc83 on Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:09 am
  • Why is it worse if, say, 90 people die in one year due to 3 incidents where 30 people were killed in the span of an hour than it is if 90 people died in one year due to 90 separate incidents?

    Never understood why so many people think one is worse than the other. Unless you misspoke Sarlacc, then that is what you are implying. Care to explain?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:22 am
  • fenderbender123 wrote:Why is it worse if, say, 90 people die in one year due to 3 incidents where 30 people were killed in the span of an hour than it is if 90 people died in one year due to 90 separate incidents?

    Never understood why so many people think one is worse than the other. Unless you misspoke Sarlacc, then that is what you are implying. Care to explain?


    My point is quite the opposite -- just because there are worse things doesn't mean that we can't focus on this one thing, too. It'd be like saying, well, breast cancer or prostrate cancer affect more people than pancreatic cancer so let's just focus on those. It's a way to sidestep the issue, either intentionally or unintentionally.

    My other point is visibility. Both are bad, but someone dying of cirrhosis, as horrendous as it is, won't make people fear for their lives in a public place. Is it good of the media to spread that kind of fear? No. But unfortunately, it's also a reality right now. Along with that, due to the 2nd amendment, this is a federal problem with an impact on people's voting habits and will garner attention accordingly.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:44 am
  • But don't you think it's relevant in terms of ranking what problems we should focus on?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:01 am
  • fenderbender123 wrote:But don't you think it's relevant in terms of ranking what problems we should focus on?


    Sure, it's relevant as part of a cost/benefit analysis. In the case of alcohol consumption, it's a big problem, but it's got a host of different causes -- which in turn leads to (potentially) great expense with little gain. (Some effects are societal, some are genetic, etc.). In other cases, like automobile accidents, manufacturers continue to make cars safer and safer -- and if self-driving cars become a basic reality, then human error will be fully eliminated from the system. The US has plenty of money to spend on a lot of different problems, and in most cases is doing so. There's just an intractability about doing the same with guns (such as even studying the effects).
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:20 am
  • US Government has also heavily regulated the auto industry as far as safety standards and emmissions go, too. It's in the interest of the public health, and therefore falls into the purview of the government to regulate it. Same with guns. If more regulation could improve public health/safety, then why should the government not be looking at that?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:37 am
  • peachesenregalia wrote:US Government has also heavily regulated the auto industry as far as safety standards and emmissions go, too. It's in the interest of the public health, and therefore falls into the purview of the government to regulate it. Same with guns. If more regulation could improve public health/safety, then why should the government not be looking at that?


    Have you been following the thread? Firearms are highly regulated both Federally and locally so much so that at this point some of those regulations likely exceed time, place, and manner standards applicable to a constitutionally protected right.

    Lots of hubbub currently about piling on more regulation, but don't be surprised as SCOTUS slowly roles back many of those oversteps.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:15 pm
  • Make every fanny who buys a gun register and insure it. Pretty simple fix that'll increase responsibility from gun owners over time.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:46 pm
  • pehawk wrote:Make every fanny who buys a gun register and insure it. Pretty simple fix that'll increase responsibility from gun owners over time.

    Insurance is a financial vehicle to ensure outstanding liabilities are paid. I'll ask you again, are you aware of outstanding judgments involving gun ownership? If not then your sole purpose is to drive down ownership by increasing cost. Disingenuous backdoor BS.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:06 pm
  • pehawk wrote:Make every fanny who buys a gun register it.


    In this state all new gun purchases are registered.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:15 pm
  • Sarlacc83 wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:Why is it worse if, say, 90 people die in one year due to 3 incidents where 30 people were killed in the span of an hour than it is if 90 people died in one year due to 90 separate incidents?

    Never understood why so many people think one is worse than the other. Unless you misspoke Sarlacc, then that is what you are implying. Care to explain?


    My point is quite the opposite -- just because there are worse things doesn't mean that we can't focus on this one thing, too. It'd be like saying, well, breast cancer or prostrate cancer affect more people than pancreatic cancer so let's just focus on those. It's a way to sidestep the issue, either intentionally or unintentionally.

    My other point is visibility. Both are bad, but someone dying of cirrhosis, as horrendous as it is, won't make people fear for their lives in a public place. Is it good of the media to spread that kind of fear? No. But unfortunately, it's also a reality right now. Along with that, due to the 2nd amendment, this is a federal problem with an impact on people's voting habits and will garner attention accordingly.



    Which again come back to my comment on the 1st amendment. The problems here run much deeper than the tools that are being blamed for peoples actions. What is going on in the media (both "professional" and social) is an abomination. And I am talking all sides before somebody takes that as a political statement. The irony will be when the people are unable to defend themselves and the 1st amendment becomes the target.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:13 pm
  • Osprey wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Make every fanny who buys a gun register and insure it. Pretty simple fix that'll increase responsibility from gun owners over time.

    Insurance is a financial vehicle to ensure outstanding liabilities are paid. I'll ask you again, are you aware of outstanding judgments involving gun ownership? If not then your sole purpose is to drive down ownership by increasing cost. Disingenuous backdoor BS.


    If your gun is used to slaughter my child, I can sue your insurance company for your negligence.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:32 pm
  • And another one in progress in Philadelphia. Apparently 6 policemen shot.

    :|
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:37 pm
  • Police were first called to the scene for narcotics activity, according to Philadelphia Police Capt. Sekou Kinebrew.

    Sources tell CBS3 that the scene was sheer chaos as officers were taking fire. Video from Chopper 3 shows officers with guns drawn at the scene
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:40 pm

Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:44 pm
  • Serving a narcotics warrant. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this hasn't been his first meeting with the Police and likely isn't even legally able to own guns.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:19 pm
  • Osprey wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:US Government has also heavily regulated the auto industry as far as safety standards and emmissions go, too. It's in the interest of the public health, and therefore falls into the purview of the government to regulate it. Same with guns. If more regulation could improve public health/safety, then why should the government not be looking at that?


    Have you been following the thread? Firearms are highly regulated both Federally and locally so much so that at this point some of those regulations likely exceed time, place, and manner standards applicable to a constitutionally protected right.

    Eh, sort of. It depends on the firearm. I can go down to Walmart right now and buy a 12 gauge shotgun that holds 8 shells and has an 18" barrel, and as many shells of whatever I want (like 00 buckshot or slugs), and walk out the door with those items in the time it takes to run the NICS background check and ring up the sale. The same is true for any non-semiautomatic rifle. The same was true of semiautomatic rifles up until about 6 weeks ago, and even with the new laws in effect it's still awfully easy for anyone that hasn't already been legally disqualified from being able to own/posses a gun to buy one.

    Yes, there are regulations, but it's still very easy for any non-criminal to buy pretty much any firearm that isn't fully automatic, and I really don't think any of the brand new laws in our state regarding semiautomatic rifles are unreasonable considering the amount of damage an AR-15 is capable of inflicting (for instance, 26 people shot in 32 seconds).


    Lots of hubbub currently about piling on more regulation, but don't be surprised as SCOTUS slowly roles back many of those oversteps.

    I-1639 passed by almost 60% of the vote. Would you be in favor of SCOTUS overriding the will of the people?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:33 pm
  • JustTheTip wrote: The irony will be when the people are unable to defend themselves and the 1st amendment becomes the target.


    There are close to 400 hundred million firearms in the hands of private citizens in this country. We're really, really far from not being able to defend ourselves against our government (that would apparently be stripping away our rights like hot cakes if only we didn't have hundreds of millions of guns).
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:54 pm
  • The thing is you can buy over the internet from another country piece's of guns and assemble them here, already being done and has been done, full Auto the works. If you want a assault rifle there are a lot of ways to get them.

    No checks at all other then the account confirmation for purchase.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:24 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:The thing is you can buy over the internet from another country piece's of guns and assemble them here, already being done and has been done, full Auto the works. If you want a assault rifle there are a lot of ways to get them.

    No checks at all other then the account confirmation for purchase.


    Sure, but that would be illegal wouldn't it? I was talking about the ease of legally purchasing a firearm in response to the opinion that firearms are already highly regulated.

    For something that is so highly regulated, firearms sure are easy to purchase legally.
    Chapow
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:50 pm
  • Osprey wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:US Government has also heavily regulated the auto industry as far as safety standards and emmissions go, too. It's in the interest of the public health, and therefore falls into the purview of the government to regulate it. Same with guns. If more regulation could improve public health/safety, then why should the government not be looking at that?


    Have you been following the thread? Firearms are highly regulated both Federally and locally so much so that at this point some of those regulations likely exceed time, place, and manner standards applicable to a constitutionally protected right.

    Lots of hubbub currently about piling on more regulation, but don't be surprised as SCOTUS slowly roles back many of those oversteps.

    Rubbish. I can go to a gun show and buy a whole arsenal of guns with very little issue. Private gun sales are extremely loosely regulated also. Stop trying to obfuscate the fact that it is way too easy for people to buy and sell guns in this country. You’re being disingenuous.
    peachesenregalia
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:57 pm
  • peachesenregalia wrote:
    Osprey wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:US Government has also heavily regulated the auto industry as far as safety standards and emmissions go, too. It's in the interest of the public health, and therefore falls into the purview of the government to regulate it. Same with guns. If more regulation could improve public health/safety, then why should the government not be looking at that?


    Have you been following the thread? Firearms are highly regulated both Federally and locally so much so that at this point some of those regulations likely exceed time, place, and manner standards applicable to a constitutionally protected right.

    Lots of hubbub currently about piling on more regulation, but don't be surprised as SCOTUS slowly roles back many of those oversteps.

    Rubbish. I can go to a gun show and buy a whole arsenal of guns with very little issue. Private gun sales are extremely loosely regulated also. Stop trying to obfuscate the fact that it is way too easy for people to buy and sell guns in this country. You’re being disingenuous.


    Haha @Osprey
    pehawk
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:03 pm
  • peachesenregalia wrote:
    Osprey wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:US Government has also heavily regulated the auto industry as far as safety standards and emmissions go, too. It's in the interest of the public health, and therefore falls into the purview of the government to regulate it. Same with guns. If more regulation could improve public health/safety, then why should the government not be looking at that?


    Have you been following the thread? Firearms are highly regulated both Federally and locally so much so that at this point some of those regulations likely exceed time, place, and manner standards applicable to a constitutionally protected right.

    Lots of hubbub currently about piling on more regulation, but don't be surprised as SCOTUS slowly roles back many of those oversteps.

    Rubbish. I can go to a gun show and buy a whole arsenal of guns with very little issue. Private gun sales are extremely loosely regulated also. Stop trying to obfuscate the fact that it is way too easy for people to buy and sell guns in this country. You’re being disingenuous.


    In Oregon you're subject to the same background check at gun shows that you are at the store. But that didn't stop Kip Kinkel!
    Zebulon Dak
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:11 pm
  • peachesenregalia wrote:
    Osprey wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:US Government has also heavily regulated the auto industry as far as safety standards and emmissions go, too. It's in the interest of the public health, and therefore falls into the purview of the government to regulate it. Same with guns. If more regulation could improve public health/safety, then why should the government not be looking at that?


    Have you been following the thread? Firearms are highly regulated both Federally and locally so much so that at this point some of those regulations likely exceed time, place, and manner standards applicable to a constitutionally protected right.

    Lots of hubbub currently about piling on more regulation, but don't be surprised as SCOTUS slowly roles back many of those oversteps.

    Rubbish. I can go to a gun show and buy a whole arsenal of guns with very little issue. Private gun sales are extremely loosely regulated also..




    Ever been to a gun show? The statement above tells me you have zero clue about what your even talking about. There are no such things as private sales any longer in Washington, that all went away when I594 went into place in '14. Each vendor at the gun show that sells firearms are licensed FFL's. You have to run a background check for any firearm, just like any other deal at any gun shop.
    2_0_6
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:17 pm
  • pehawk wrote:
    Osprey wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Make every fanny who buys a gun register and insure it. Pretty simple fix that'll increase responsibility from gun owners over time.

    Insurance is a financial vehicle to ensure outstanding liabilities are paid. I'll ask you again, are you aware of outstanding judgments involving gun ownership? If not then your sole purpose is to drive down ownership by increasing cost. Disingenuous backdoor BS.


    If your gun is used to slaughter my child, I can sue your insurance company for your negligence.

    I see you know as much about tort law as you do about firearms. You could sue ME for wrongful death if I was the killer, but no policy covers that. The one scenario a policy might cover is gross negligence on my part, but odds are issuers will exempt via clause.

    In truth nothing prevents you from suing now, no need for an insurance regulatory scheme.
    Osprey
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:24 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:The thing is you can buy over the internet from another country piece's of guns and assemble them here, already being done and has been done, full Auto the works. If you want a assault rifle there are a lot of ways to get them.

    No checks at all other then the account confirmation for purchase.



    If someone is importing a full auto parts kit for any firearm and assembling them here without the proper process, that is a major issue. If someone got caught it would strip you of your gun rights for life, a large fine, and likely quite a bit of prison time.

    You can buy some old bolt action and other military surplus guns directly with a C&R license.
    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics
    2_0_6
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:30 pm
  • Osprey wrote:
    pehawk wrote:
    Osprey wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Make every fanny who buys a gun register and insure it. Pretty simple fix that'll increase responsibility from gun owners over time.

    Insurance is a financial vehicle to ensure outstanding liabilities are paid. I'll ask you again, are you aware of outstanding judgments involving gun ownership? If not then your sole purpose is to drive down ownership by increasing cost. Disingenuous backdoor BS.


    If your gun is used to slaughter my child, I can sue your insurance company for your negligence.

    I see you know as much about tort law as you do about firearms. You could sue ME for wrongful death if I was the killer, but no policy covers that. The one scenario a policy might cover is gross negligence on my part, but odds are issuers will exempt via clause.

    In truth nothing prevents you from suing now, no need for an insurance regulatory scheme.


    The gross negligence would come into play if your psycho kid shot up a school because you didnt lock up your gun properly.
    pehawk
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:31 pm
  • Chapow wrote:
    JustTheTip wrote: The irony will be when the people are unable to defend themselves and the 1st amendment becomes the target.


    There are close to 400 hundred million firearms in the hands of private citizens in this country. We're really, really far from not being able to defend ourselves against our government (that would apparently be stripping away our rights like hot cakes if only we didn't have hundreds of millions of guns).
    '

    Rights are always being stripped anyway. Lack of the potential of armed uprising would only make it easier.
    JustTheTip
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:32 pm
  • Chapow wrote:I-1639 passed by almost 60% of the vote. Would you be in favor of SCOTUS overriding the will of the people?

    Absolutely if any portion is found unconstitutional.
    Osprey
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