Mass Shootings

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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:40 am
  • LymonHawk wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:
    LymonHawk wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    It was put in place partly because the British were disarming them to control them from the fight for independence.
    The current call to disarm all Americans because of a tiny fraction of spree killers is loopy at best and reminds us of how the British tried to control them way back then.


    Did someone here say they 'hate' the 2nd Amendment?

    You do realize the Constitution wasn't written until the War of Independence was over....right?

    Who on here has called for a '...call to disarm all Americans...?

    How many times in this thread have we heard that same claim? But no one has shown a significant number of times it's been said? Why is that?

    Ok, I'll bite what happened with 1639? The NRA is fighting it in court?

    Here's what I'm referring to when I said Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    I said it because it shows anti-American anti-Patriot bias:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:So this tells me medic that you are either not reading my posts (or Tical's), or being obtuse on purpose in order to stay on your 2nd Amendment high horse, because stepping even one foot closer to logical solutions would do what? Not sure, only you can answer that.

    chris98251 wrote:The question comes down to how much or how many lives be lost to maintain current status quo, 1, 10, 100, 1000,10,000, 100,000 1,000,000, 10,000,000. Pretty sure we are closer to the Million and 10 million levels over time since the 2nd amendment.

    LymonHawk wrote:You do realize the Constitution wasn't written until the War of Independence was over....right?

    That's great you know when that happened. I was pointing out why. How do you miss that and have to comment on it?!!

    Look, try and keep up. This thread is 20+ pages long and nobody appreciates having to go back and clarify their statements.

    For the most part, this has been a real good back and forth discussion and while I'm not sure how much moderation has take place, I think we've been reasonable.

    If you are an anti-gunner and you're in a thread about Mass Shootings, I'm gonna share with you why you might feel like your comments are being ignored or you may feel disrespected in your opinions by pro-gunners.

    1) If you say or type anything about "Assault Weapon", "Assault Rifle", "Assault-style" then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or OP Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    Nobody has an Assault Rifle. They are already banned for the public. Only the Military has them. They have select fire "switches" that change from 1 bullet per trigger pull, to 3 bullets per trigger pull, to all bullets per trigger pull(full-auto). There may be other configurations, with different bullet counts but I'm not aware of them. The AR-15 is not an Assault Rifle. AR stands for ArmaLite Rifle. It only shoots 1 bullet per trigger pull and that's it. It's called semi-automatic, just like non-revolver pistols(Glock, Beretta, etc). If you tell me your uncle's cousin's neighbor has an Assault Rifle, ant it's true, then that person has a special license, went through extra background checks with the federal government and paid extra $$$ on top of the price of the actual rifle to get it. That person is not somebody you need to fear.

    2) If you say that 30,000 people are killed by guns every year, then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    That is Fake News Media/Bloomberg/Anti-gunner talk that includes Suicides which make up 20,000 or 2/3rds of that number and has nothing to do with Mass Shootings. The 10,000 remaining are All firearms murders and Rifles are only 1/4th of that total and so when you call for a ban on AR-15's you are ignored because they are Not the 75% choice in Mass Shootings(hand guns).

    3) If you don't know what an FFL is, then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    A Federal Firearms License is required for all firearm transfers between anyone but close family(I live in Washington State and I-1639 made this so). For people outside Washington State, there may still exist private sales transactions that no law can enforce, but purchase from an actual Gun Store will use an FFL which does a NICS check or more. I-1639 is not even enforceable for this provision but, of course, law abiding gun owners will follow the law and criminals will not.

    4) If you believe Twitter has accurate statistics about Global Mass Shootings, then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    The Twitter post that showed Zero shootings for every country but USA was a lie. Here is truth. You probably wont believe it if it doesn't match your bias or agenda and it's not even from Fox News:
    "Of the 97 countries where we identified mass public shootings, the U.S. ranks 64th per capita in its rate of attacks and 65th in fatalities." Source(chicagotribune.com):https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-mass-shooters-russia-public-shootings-thousand-oaks-mercy-hospital-chicago-1121-story.html

    5) If you think what I've said above is not verifiable by a quick search of fbi.gov then you are lazy and don't really care about anything but "guns are bad", then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    The Fake News Media cherry picks data from that very same fbi.gov report and hopes you don't go look at the report and see that for yourselves.

    6) If you think the 2nd Amendment refers to Militia meaning "an army or group of like minded gunners", then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    When the 2nd Amendment was written, Militia meant "Any Able Bodied Man" and not today's interpretation of the word Militia, i.e.; State Militia, Naval Militia, National Guard.

    7) If you think the 2nd Amendment refers to Well-Regulated meaning "rules and regulations", then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    When the 2nd Amendment was written, well-regulated meant "In good working order" and not today's interpretation of "rules and regulations".

    8) If you don't know why the 2nd Amendment is the only one that says "shall not be infringed", then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    Infringing on a Right that is recognized by the U.S Constitution just makes you a really bad person, anti-American and anti-Patriot. OK, that might be more opinion than my other points but really, c'mon man.

    9) If you think the "Bill of Rights" is a "Bill of Needs" (you don't NEED a gun), then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    Seriously, it's not the "Bill of Needs"

    10) If you use the term "Common Sense Gun Laws", then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    None of those laws ever employ common sense and don't save not even 1 life and only end up making it harder for lawful people to obtain guns and certainly don't affect criminals bent on shooting up a school/mall.

    ... and finally! I know for most of you TLDR but...

    11) If you claim that pro-gunners don't want to compromise an anything, then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    Here is a story on Compromise that I copied from some pro-gun website that has some truth to it:
    Let's say I have this cake. It is a very nice cake, with "GUN RIGHTS" written across the top in lovely floral icing. Along you come and say, "Give me that cake."

    I say, "No, it's my cake."

    You say, "Let's compromise. Give me half." I respond by asking what I get out of this compromise, and you reply that I get to keep half of my cake.

    Okay, we compromise. Let us call this compromise The National Firearms Act of 1934.

    This leaves me with half of my cake and there I am, enjoying my cake when you walk back up and say, "Give me that cake."

    I say -- again: "No, it's my cake."

    You say, "Let's compromise." What do I get out of this compromise? Why, I get to keep half of what's left of the cake I already own.

    So, we compromise -- let us call this one the Gun Control Act of 1968 -- and this time I'm left holding what is now just a quarter of my cake.

    And I'm sitting in the corner with my quarter piece of cake, and here you come again. You want my cake. Again.

    This time you take several bites -- we'll call this compromise the Clinton Executive Orders -- and I'm left with about a tenth of what has always been MY DAMN CAKE and you've got nine-tenths of it.

    Let me restate that: I started out with MY CAKE and you have already 'compromised' me out of ninety percent of MY CAKE ...

    ... and here you come again. Compromise! ... Lautenberg Act (nibble, nibble). Compromise! ... The HUD/Smith and Wesson agreement (nibble, nibble). Compromise! ... The Brady Law (NOM NOM NOM). Compromise! ... The School Safety and Law Enforcement Improvement Act (sweet tap-dancing Freyja, my finger!)

    After every one of these "compromises" -- in which I lose rights and you lose NOTHING -- I'm left holding crumbs of what was once a large and satisfying cake, and you're standing there with most of MY CAKE, making anime eyes and whining about being "reasonable", and wondering "why we won't compromise" as you try for the rest of my cake.

    In 1933 I -- or any other American -- could buy a fully-automatic Thompson sub-machine gun, a 20mm anti-tank gun, or shorten the barrel of any gun I owned to any length I thought fit, silence any gun I owned, and a host of other things.

    Come your "compromise" in 1934, and suddenly I can't buy a sub-machine gun, a silencer, or a Short-Barreled Firearm without .Gov permission and paying a hefty tax. What the hell did y'all lose in this "compromise"?

    In 1967 I, or any other American, could buy or sell firearms anywhere we felt like it, in any State we felt like, with no restrictions. We "compromised" in 1968, and suddenly I've got to have a Federal Firearms License to have a business involving firearms, and there's whole bunch of rules limiting what, where and how I buy or sell guns.

    In 1968, "sporting purpose" -- a term found NOT ANY DAMNED WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION, TO SAY NOTHING OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT -- suddenly became a legal reason to prevent the importation of guns that had been freely imported in 1967.

    Tell me, do -- exactly what the hell did you lose in this 1968 "compromise"?

    The Lautenberg Act was a "compromise" which suddenly deprived Americans of a Constitutional Right for being accused or convicted of a misdemeanor -- a bloody MISDEMEANOR! What did your side lose in this "compromise"?

    I could go on and on, but the plain and simple truth of the matter is that a genuine "compromise" means that both sides give up something. My side of the discussion has been giving, giving, and giving yet more -- and your side has been taking, taking, and now wants to take more.

    For you, "compromise" means you'll take half of my cake now, and the other half of my cake next time. Always has been, always will be.

    I've got news for you: That is not "compromise".

    I'm done with being reasonable, and I'm done with "compromise". Nothing about gun control in this country has ever been "reasonable" nor a genuine "compromise", and I have flat had enough.


    I love how you come in the middle of a conversation(s) and prove how stupid you are. Did you never learn about 'not coming in in the middle of the movie'? No? Then perhaps you are the one who shouldn't be in an intelligent, adult conversation?

    Now where to start? Let's start here: Why do you make the assumption I'm anti-gun? I'm not anti-gun, and if you had bothered reading more of this thread, you might have noticed I'm a gun owner, and a Vet. And so far the only one here who has admitted to having shot another human being. I also called artillery fire, and was in the US Army (RA) from Sept '60 to Sept 63. And yes, I was honorably discharged. If you doubt I'm a Vet, put up $500 and I'll meet you in Skagit County and show you my VA Card.

    I fully believe there are too many firearms in this country and owned by too many people who should not have access to such weapons. Simple as that.

    And then you post this long diatribe about why pro-gun people will not read my comments? Oh, gee, that just crushes me! LOL!

    Nor am I anti-second amendment. But I also believe it is not some carte blanche for anyone who wants to possess a firearm.

    One shouldn't say common sense laws' because it proves one shouldn't be involved in gun debates because they are uneducated, and don't belong in adult conversations? So you're saying pmed shouldn't be involved in this conversation? Excellent!

    That's enough. Come back when you grow up.


    You may say your not anti gun but you tout many of the same ideas. You use many of the same phrases.

    If it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.

    I’m glad you own a gun, I pray you keep it in good working order, remember how it works, and practice with it at least semi regularly.

    Maybe you’re not anti gun, and you just don’t care enough about yours rights to stand up for them.
    Were you drafted into the military?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:55 am
  • JustTheTip wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    JustTheTip wrote:Single age for definition of adult (voting, smoking, drinking, serving in the military, gun ownership, sexual consent, exclusion of your parents in your care decisions, etc. If you aren't old enough for one of these things you aren't old enough for any of them.)

    Eliminate local government gun laws as unconstitutional (state, county, city)

    Eliminate state CCP

    Federal CCP valid anywhere in the US and requiring training and extensive background checks. Renewal required every 2 years.

    Background checks and wait periods for any firearm purchase. No wait period for Federal CCP holders. This includes private sales being required to go through a transfer service.

    Gun Free zones require person by person screening (see airports and stadiums.) Labeling something a gun free zone and not screening everybody who enters the area is absurd.

    Allow other places (without person by person screening) to ban open carry but not concealed carry by people with CCP. Living spaces are exempt, any person can say no guns in their home (should be obvious but nothing really is these days.) In the case of group dwellings this would apply to the unit and not the whole (appartment but not the appartment building for example.)



    This isn’t unreasonable. It uses common sense.

    Having said that, I’ll go back to the 3rd part of my question.

    What impact will it have?
    Even if this was implemented as stated, I predict it wouldn’t have any.
    My prediction is based on this:

    It does nothing to address the guns already in the hands of those prone to committing gun crimes/violence.

    We currently can not prevent a mass shooting from getting a gun if he/she wants one.

    I’m not saying it’s a bad policy, I’m simply stating that our expectations should be very low in terms of preventing anything.


    Gun Free zone?
    This boils down to people (responsible gun owners) policing themselves.
    Here in Texas we have many gun free zones, and business owners can deny entry to those carrying a gun. They can’t and don’t generally screen people but if one is caught the penalty is stiff and you can lose your right to carry.
    Obviously places like court houses have mechanical screening, attempting to bring a gun in could get you shot, and would get you jailed.


    At the very least it will keep discussions and legislation at the federal level and neuter the attempt by Bloomberg and others to start a lot of little fires because they know they can't all be extinguished. People complain about the NRA have politicians in their pockets but turn a blind eye to what happened with 1639.

    As far as harsh penalties for entering a gun-free zone with a gun, that is useless. Law-abiding gun owners will leave their guns at home leaving them open to the criminal or lunatic who could give a rats ass about what the penalty is for entering a gun-free zone with a gun. Unless you screen each person entering a controlled area, gun-free zone only makes people vulnerable.


    I agree mostly.

    But it is a deterrent because most people that have a license to carry want to obey the law. Same as those that carry and live in states with “constitutional carry”.

    I’m not a fan of “gun free” zones because IMHO the “zone” becomes a soft target.
    Any “shooter”that puts any thought into what he/she is about to do, knows that the risk of taking return fire is much lower (especially in the first minutes).

    Again this is a situation that never was really thought through very well IMO.

    I go to an occasional “gun show”, I guarantee that I feel very safe, unlike anyplace that requires me to “leave it at the door”.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:00 am
  • What about our other rights?

    I’ve always believed that if one is in jeopardy, they all are/can be.

    Anyone concerned?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:27 am
  • Seahawk wrote: It sure is hard to talk to the left about real solutions when they focus on inanimate objects. What's wrong with them

    Anyone unfamiliar with the Parkland murder’s background and how the school system dealt with him should read up. The administration 100% knew he was a threat, literally identifying him as a potential spree killer.
    Did they pursue charges when he committed crimes on campus? No.
    Did they insist he get treatment? No.
    Did they keep him in a setting designed for ‘troubled youth’? No.

    Instead they mainstreamed him and focused on the inanimate object by forbidding him use of a backpack and frisking him daily.
    This my friends is the genius of restorative justice.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:31 am
  • pmedic920 wrote:What about our other rights?

    I’ve always believed that if one is in jeopardy, they all are/can be.

    Anyone concerned?

    I'm deeply concerned. If they take away the 2nd Amendment, that makes it pretty easy to take away the rest because there will be no way to defend against that with no guns.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:02 am
  • Seahawk wrote:
    LymonHawk wrote:I love how you come in the middle of a conversation(s) and prove how stupid you are.

    Really?! It matters when I come into the conversation on an open chat forum?!! Name calling?!! Wow way to defend your position.

    LymonHawk wrote:I fully believe there are too many firearms in this country and owned by too many people who should not have access to such weapons. Simple as that.

    As a vet, you know that this is not honoring your pledge to defend the Constitution shame on you.
    An armed society is a polite society. Everyone should have a gun and be taught to know which end is the bad end. If this were part of the solution then you wouldn't need that opinion.


    If you had come in the conversation earlier, you would have known I own a weapon and would not have made the mistake of acting like I'm against any weapons being owned privately.

    My pledge was to '...defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign or domestic.' And please explain how my not wanting weapons in the hands of people who shouldn't have weapons, makes me against the Constitution?

    "An armed society is a polite society"? Really? What you're saying is we should set society back some 100+ years? Gunfights in the streets and all that? Brilliant!!

    Perhaps I should also explain this type of conversation, guns, has been going on here for many years. When the PWR forum was still alive guns were a favorite topic. This is nothing new.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:15 am
  • Seahawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:What about our other rights?

    I’ve always believed that if one is in jeopardy, they all are/can be.

    Anyone concerned?

    I'm deeply concerned. If they take away the 2nd Amendment, that makes it pretty easy to take away the rest because there will be no way to defend against that with no guns.


    Again, how many people here have called for the abolishing of the 2nd Amendment?

    You two do realize the Constitution has been amended many times and is not written in stone?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:33 am
  • Seahawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:What about our other rights?

    I’ve always believed that if one is in jeopardy, they all are/can be.

    Anyone concerned?

    I'm deeply concerned. If they take away the 2nd Amendment, that makes it pretty easy to take away the rest because there will be no way to defend against that with no guns.


    I don’t disagree but it’s not so much that we need the guns.

    Most certainly though, I fight for my gun rights because I care for, and want all of them. (Rights)
    This is an aspect that many anti 2nd folks fail to recognize.
    It’s an absolute fact that if our 2nd amendment rights get abolished, they all can be abolished.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:34 am
  • Pmed: "You may say your not anti gun but you tout many of the same ideas. You use many of the same phrases.

    If it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.

    I’m glad you own a gun, I pray you keep it in good working order, remember how it works, and practice with it at least semi regularly.

    Maybe you’re not anti gun, and you just don’t care enough about yours rights to stand up for them.
    Were you drafted into the military?"

    Care to point out my touting of many of the same ideas or phrases?

    I'm guessing you know squat about the US Army. No one was drafted at 17 years of age. I also mentioned I was 'RA' which stands for Regular Army, whereas a US in front of my/your serial number would have meant you were drafted. But keep babbling about subjects of which you know nothing about. :roll:
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:42 am
  • LymonHawk wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:What about our other rights?

    I’ve always believed that if one is in jeopardy, they all are/can be.

    Anyone concerned?

    I'm deeply concerned. If they take away the 2nd Amendment, that makes it pretty easy to take away the rest because there will be no way to defend against that with no guns.


    Again, how many people here have called for the abolishing of the 2nd Amendment?

    You two do realize the Constitution has been amended many times and is not written in stone?


    Again, regardless of what you think, the agenda of the anti gun crowd is to get rid of guns.
    The 2nd amendment is what gives Americans the right to own and keep guns.
    It goes without saying that it’s an attack on the 2nd amendment.

    Folks (you included) will say, I never said I wanted to get rid of guns, and that’s fair enough. The fact is that the 2nd amendment won’t ever be abolished in one fell swoop, it will be whittled away at piece by piece.

    Any one with one eye and half an ass knows this.

    It’s the main reason that pro 2nd folks don’t want to concede anything.
    I’ve said that at least 3x now. Argue it if you want but no pro gun guy is gunna listen to you.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:46 am
  • So essentially, "pro-gunners" (your term, not mine. I usually try to use GRA) will ignore anything said that they disagree with.

    Gotcha.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:47 am
  • LymonHawk wrote:Pmed: "You may say your not anti gun but you tout many of the same ideas. You use many of the same phrases.

    If it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.

    I’m glad you own a gun, I pray you keep it in good working order, remember how it works, and practice with it at least semi regularly.

    Maybe you’re not anti gun, and you just don’t care enough about yours rights to stand up for them.
    Were you drafted into the military?"

    Care to point out my touting of many of the same ideas or phrases?

    I'm guessing you know squat about the US Army. No one was drafted at 17 years of age. I also mentioned I was 'RA' which stands for Regular Army, whereas a US in front of my/your serial number would have meant you were drafted. But keep babbling about subjects of which you know nothing about. :roll:


    I simply asked if you were drafted.
    I’m not a military guy but I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

    My Daughter is an officer in the the Army, does that count for anything.

    And FWIW, you have been quacking exactly like a duck, go back and read your own posts, I’m not wasting my time.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:51 am
  • sutz wrote:So essentially, "pro-gunners" (your term, not mine. I usually try to use GRA) will ignore anything said that they disagree with.

    Gotcha.


    I said d nothing of the sorts.

    I was talking to Lymon in specific terms.

    I said no pro gunner would listen to him, if he wanted to argue the SPECIFIC points I mentioned to him.

    You are using my words to paint with a broad brush.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:58 am
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    sutz wrote:So essentially, "pro-gunners" (your term, not mine. I usually try to use GRA) will ignore anything said that they disagree with.

    Gotcha.


    I said d nothing of the sorts.

    I was talking to Lymon in specific terms.

    I said no pro gunner would listen to him, if he wanted to argue the SPECIFIC points I mentioned to him.

    You are using my words to paint with a broad brush.

    Was actually thinking of "Seahawk" there. He used that phrase 8 or 10 times in his prolonged missives that I could see. And repeated much of the same text several times. Obviously, YMMV. Frankly, it seems to me that gun safety advocates have compromise far more than gun rights advocates and the NRA over the last 30 years or so as the situation has spiralled farther and farther out of hand.

    :yawn:
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:05 pm
  • sutz wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    sutz wrote:So essentially, "pro-gunners" (your term, not mine. I usually try to use GRA) will ignore anything said that they disagree with.

    Gotcha.


    I said d nothing of the sorts.

    I was talking to Lymon in specific terms.

    I said no pro gunner would listen to him, if he wanted to argue the SPECIFIC points I mentioned to him.

    You are using my words to paint with a broad brush.

    Was actually thinking of "Seahawk" there. He used that phrase 8 or 10 times in his prolonged missives that I could see. And repeated much of the same text several times. Obviously, YMMV. Frankly, it seems to me that gun safety advocates have compromise far more than gun rights advocates and the NRA over the last 30 years or so as the situation has spiralled farther and farther out of hand.

    :yawn:


    I won’t disagree with that statement in general.

    But like I’ve been saying, pro 2nd people don’t want to concede anything at this point even if it makes some sense and appears responsible.

    We, won’t concede anything because of the whittling effect.
    Cut many small pieces away from anything, and eventually you end up with nothing.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:09 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    LymonHawk wrote:Pmed: "You may say your not anti gun but you tout many of the same ideas. You use many of the same phrases.

    If it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.

    I’m glad you own a gun, I pray you keep it in good working order, remember how it works, and practice with it at least semi regularly.

    Maybe you’re not anti gun, and you just don’t care enough about yours rights to stand up for them.
    Were you drafted into the military?"

    Care to point out my touting of many of the same ideas or phrases?

    I'm guessing you know squat about the US Army. No one was drafted at 17 years of age. I also mentioned I was 'RA' which stands for Regular Army, whereas a US in front of my/your serial number would have meant you were drafted. But keep babbling about subjects of which you know nothing about. :roll:


    I simply asked if you were drafted.
    I’m not a military guy but I did stay at a Holiday Inn.

    My Daughter is an officer in the the Army, does that count for anything.

    And FWIW, you have been quacking exactly like a duck, go back and read your own posts, I’m not wasting my time.


    Great your Daughter is in the military, gratz and thank her for her service but you get no credit any more then I do for my Nephew and Brother in law who were Marines.

    They are also the reason I think there should be post service Psych evals, Ex Brother in law was in Beirut when they bombed the barracks there and was never the same, Nephew was a sniper in Iraq and much like American Sniper had to do things against his Moral code as a person. Says he still sees the faces of the Kids and Women he had to Kill.

    Neither should own a weapon really, both have shown signs of instability at times but they both do. And like you Pmedic they feel when they pry it from their cold dead hands they can have it.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:32 pm
  • Pmed: ROTC?
    LymonHawk
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Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:54 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:Pmed: ROTC?


    No
    Went in already having a Masters degree in Bio Tech

    They paid off 52k in student loans, and she starts PA school in the spring.

    She’s a 1st Lt. will be a Captain after the ipap school/programImage
    Image

    Edit:
    Before anyone starts.
    She came out of OCS as a 2nd Lt.
    already been promoted waiting on 1st Lt. paperwork to clear the Feds
    Last edited by pmedic920 on Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
    pmedic920
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:01 pm
  • Didn't she recently get married? Is he in the Army?
    LymonHawk
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:14 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:Is her new husband in the Army/


    No.
    He just finished pharmD.
    He is a Dr. of Pharmacology
    Working currently in SanAntonio until she is finished with the PA program.
    Image
    Image

    They have a bright future ahead.

    They both enjoy shooting and support the 2nd as I do.
    pmedic920
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:18 pm
  • Well, good luck to them.
    LymonHawk
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:20 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:Well, good luck to them.

    Appreciate it.
    pmedic920
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:36 pm
  • sutz wrote:So essentially, "pro-gunners" (your term, not mine. I usually try to use GRA) will ignore anything said that they disagree with.

    Gotcha.

    Straw man argument and doesn't contribute to the conversation.

    I didn't say "anything", and I specifically said things that show a persons lack of knowledge in the subject matter and why.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:38 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:Again, regardless of what you think, the agenda of the anti gun crowd is to get rid of guns.
    The 2nd amendment is what gives Americans the right to own and keep guns.
    It goes without saying that it’s an attack on the 2nd amendment.

    This isn't accurate. The 2nd amendment doesn't give the right. It codifies in writing an existing natural right.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
    Also among these "certain unalienable Rights" were those codified into the Bill of Rights.

    Even though there is a procedure in place that could be used(unlikely) to repeal the 2nd amendment, that does not repeal my "Creator endowed" right to Life including defending it with a firearm.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:12 pm
  • The forefathers’ lack of foresight is killing us, literally.
    Tical21
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:30 pm
  • Seahawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:Again, regardless of what you think, the agenda of the anti gun crowd is to get rid of guns.
    The 2nd amendment is what gives Americans the right to own and keep guns.
    It goes without saying that it’s an attack on the 2nd amendment.

    This isn't accurate. The 2nd amendment doesn't give the right. It codifies in writing an existing natural right.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
    Also among these "certain unalienable Rights" were those codified into the Bill of Rights.

    Even though there is a procedure in place that could be used(unlikely) to repeal the 2nd amendment, that does not repeal my "Creator endowed" right to Life including defending it with a firearm.


    Want to show us were in the Bible (whichever one you want to use) it says such a thing? And what kind of firearm did She mention?
    LymonHawk
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:43 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:Again, regardless of what you think, the agenda of the anti gun crowd is to get rid of guns.
    The 2nd amendment is what gives Americans the right to own and keep guns.
    It goes without saying that it’s an attack on the 2nd amendment.

    This isn't accurate. The 2nd amendment doesn't give the right. It codifies in writing an existing natural right.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
    Also among these "certain unalienable Rights" were those codified into the Bill of Rights.

    Even though there is a procedure in place that could be used(unlikely) to repeal the 2nd amendment, that does not repeal my "Creator endowed" right to Life including defending it with a firearm.


    Want to show us were in the Bible (whichever one you want to use) it says such a thing? And what kind of firearm did She mention?

    :34853_doh: :177692:

    12) If you don't know that sentence comes from the Declaration of Independence, then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to America.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:05 pm
  • Want to show me in the D of I where it says, "Creator endowed right to Life including defending it with a firearm."?
    Last edited by LymonHawk on Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    LymonHawk
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:37 pm
  • Love Chapelle's solution. If every black person went out and legally bought a gun the 2nd amendment would be repealed the day after.

    That's the most realistic solution I've ever heard.
    pehawk
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:00 pm
  • Seahawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:Again, regardless of what you think, the agenda of the anti gun crowd is to get rid of guns.
    The 2nd amendment is what gives Americans the right to own and keep guns.
    It goes without saying that it’s an attack on the 2nd amendment.

    This isn't accurate. The 2nd amendment doesn't give the right. It codifies in writing an existing natural right.
    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
    Also among these "certain unalienable Rights" were those codified into the Bill of Rights.

    Even though there is a procedure in place that could be used(unlikely) to repeal the 2nd amendment, that does not repeal my "Creator endowed" right to Life including defending it with a firearm.


    Correct, not accurate but for the sake of this bunch it’s close enough.
    It’s painfully obvious than very few care what the exact words and meanings are.

    They all know what I mean.
    pmedic920
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:05 pm
  • pehawk wrote:Love Chapelle's solution. If every black person went out and legally bought a gun the 2nd amendment would be repealed the day after.

    That's the most realistic solution I've ever heard.


    It’s not possible for every black person to go out and legally buy a gun, It’s not possible for any race of people to do so.

    Felony convictions, amongst other things make it impossible.
    pmedic920
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:41 am
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Love Chapelle's solution. If every black person went out and legally bought a gun the 2nd amendment would be repealed the day after.

    That's the most realistic solution I've ever heard.


    It’s not possible for every black person to go out and legally buy a gun, It’s not possible for any race of people to do so.

    Felony convictions, amongst other things make it impossible.


    YESSSS!!!!
    pehawk
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:54 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:Isn't all this mindless violence on the part of what used to be a fairly orderly and non-violent public just exactly what Tipper Gore was warning us would happen from violent video games, back in the day?


    No, cause as I pointed out just about every first world country has similar factors involved in their society that we like to blame for gun violence. Mental illness, suicide, lack of morality, and the most tired of all tropes, the dreaded video game violence.

    Image


    It's guns, too many guns, too much freedom with guns, not enough restrictions with guns, not enough background checking, not enough hoops to jump through to prove you're an acceptable gun owner, including things like mental evaluations or some sort of system that continues to verify said stability and competency.

    Very few to none of these mass shootings were and are still being carried out the criminals that everyone said are going to have all the guns if we restrict gun ownership. These are unstable individuals that freely purchased their guns, and some purchased entire arsenals.

    It's insanity to me. You wanna protect your family? Fine, jump through all the hoops and here's your handgun. You wanna hunt? Fine, jump through all the hoops and here's your hunting rifle?

    You wanna own 50 AK-47's, a bazooka, 100,000 rounds of ammunition, WTH are we doing! Jesus H. Christ we're stupid.


    Judging by your fairly ignorant examples here, I'm going to guess you don't own guns ? Or probably have little to zero experience with them ?
    99% of mass shootings are gang/drug related.. Our standard is 4 or more people... Other countries have different standards thus making your cute comparison not exactly even. The LEGAL gun buying process is fine, issue is plenty of people can pass the background check and later go bat Shit crazy . the last 5 shooters all passed them...so how is more stringent background checks going to help ?

    The main issues here are lack of value of human life ( culture and society issue) lack of fathers in the home, extreme in the minority communitues , mental health and the lack of options and treatment and lastly the lack of enforcing the 22k " common sense" gun laws we already have . literally all these shooters had tons of red flags before they killed anyone and the local police and FBI did nothing .
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:09 am
  • Didn't the Odessa shooter fail a background check? But he was still able to purchase a firearm from a private buyer.
    LymonHawk
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:13 am
  • Tical21 wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:Well, let's hear him out. PMed, why do you feel you need a firearm?



    Short answer:

    It’s not the “bill of needs”


    Longer answer:

    I’ve already stated, I’m not a hunter.

    I enjoy shooting sports like “3 gun” and “defensive pistol” competitions.
    (Google it)

    I have some guns for investment purposes.

    I have a few that were gifts.

    I have some for personal protection.

    I also have some to be used in case of “shit hits the fan” scenario.
    (Zombie apocalypse ya know)

    Some I have simply because I think they are cool.

    None of them are any threat to anyone unless that person intends to harm me /mine. If that ever happens it will be 100% within my rights. I pray the day never comes.

    At this exact moment, I don’t “need” a gun but I have a few in case things are different a few minutes from now.

    Cool, thanks for taking the time. This is kind of what I'm getting at. it sounds like you've never actually needed a gun, and you most likely, assumption being made here, never will. I think the overwhelming majority of gun-owners are in a similar boat. So, I don't understand what the big deal is. If your guns were to be taken away or turned in or whatever, you'd miss out on playing "3 gun." Again, to me, the benefit doesn't match the cost.


    This is such a stupid argument , I've never been in a accident so I don't need car insurance ? My house has never caught on fire so this fire extinguisher is pointless , my boat has never sank so my pfd is useless..... If you magically took guns away from every legal owner tomo it woukd change nothing .... Gun violence would still exist... This ignorant line of thinking is insane to me.. Is it lives you care about ? If so you prob shoukd turn in your car, cell phone and any alchol or drugs you might use... Those things kill a extremely higher number of Americans daily and yearly then those scary guns do.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:26 am
  • Here we go again. :roll:
    LymonHawk
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:01 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:Here we go again. :roll:


    You mean here we go again with you complaining about people discounting what you say while you do exactly the same thing?
    JustTheTip
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:33 am

Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:55 am
  • Osprey wrote:https://www.insurance.wa.gov/news/kreidler-bans-sale-nra-affiliated-insurance-seeks-fines-177000
    Not sure how I missed this when it happened, but heard it discussed on the radio yesterday.

    Blows a hole in Pe’s plan, but the logic seems flawed. Agree that you can’t insure a criminal act, but you should be able to insure against legal expenses for what could be a lawful shoot ie self defense.


    So I assume Kreidler will be going after TurboTax next for selling audit protection?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:02 pm

Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:18 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Too bad for vape companies the right to vape isn't an amendment.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/11/trump-t ... sease.html

    6 deaths, wow quite the body count, glad our government is on top of this crisis.

    Yeah and from what I’ve seen it has more to do with the street drugs they’re vaping than the actual process. Guess Big Vape hasn’t established their lobbying sufficiently. A few months of contributions and the issue will miraculously be solved.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:31 am
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Love Chapelle's solution. If every black person went out and legally bought a gun the 2nd amendment would be repealed the day after.

    That's the most realistic solution I've ever heard.


    It’s not possible for every black person to go out and legally buy a gun, It’s not possible for any race of people to do so.

    Felony convictions, amongst other things make it impossible.



    pehawk said LEGALLY right there in his post. And your response to it speaks VOLUMES about your subconscious and
    further proves just how absolutely brilliant Dave Chapelle's social commentary, by using comedy, actually is! Your Spokane/Texas is showing pmedic. :lol:
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:31 am
  • hgwellz12 wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Love Chapelle's solution. If every black person went out and legally bought a gun the 2nd amendment would be repealed the day after.

    That's the most realistic solution I've ever heard.


    It’s not possible for every black person to go out and legally buy a gun, It’s not possible for any race of people to do so.

    Felony convictions, amongst other things make it impossible.



    pehawk said LEGALLY right there in his post. And your response to it speaks VOLUMES about your subconscious and
    further proves just how absolutely brilliant Dave Chapelle's social commentary, by using comedy, actually is! Your Spokane/Texas is showing pmedic. :lol:


    Pmedics reply above is probably my favorite thing ever written on this site. And I'm glad I was a part of it.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:18 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Too bad for vape companies the right to vape isn't an amendment.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/11/trump-t ... sease.html

    6 deaths, wow quite the body count, glad our government is on top of this crisis.



    We should enact an amendment for people being able to open carry big bulky devices that enable them to blow cotton candy scented smoke everywhere with no regards for anyone around them. Brilliant!
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:23 am
  • hgwellz12 wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Love Chapelle's solution. If every black person went out and legally bought a gun the 2nd amendment would be repealed the day after.

    That's the most realistic solution I've ever heard.


    It’s not possible for every black person to go out and legally buy a gun, It’s not possible for any race of people to do so.

    Felony convictions, amongst other things make it impossible.



    pehawk said LEGALLY right there in his post. And your response to it speaks VOLUMES about your subconscious and
    further proves just how absolutely brilliant Dave Chapelle's social commentary, by using comedy, actually is! Your Spokane/Texas is showing pmedic. :lol:


    While I agree that pmedic likely missed the overall point of pehawks post, I don't think his response at all speaks the VOLUMES you are trying to make it speak.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:24 am
  • 2_0_6 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Too bad for vape companies the right to vape isn't an amendment.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/11/trump-t ... sease.html

    6 deaths, wow quite the body count, glad our government is on top of this crisis.



    We should enact an amendment for people being able to open carry big bulky devices that enable them to blow cotton candy scented smoke everywhere with no regards for anyone around them. Brilliant!


    You have to give him credit for consistency. He continues to bring the same value to the conversation in each and every post he contributes.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:43 am
  • Osprey wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Too bad for vape companies the right to vape isn't an amendment.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/11/trump-t ... sease.html

    6 deaths, wow quite the body count, glad our government is on top of this crisis.

    Yeah and from what I’ve seen it has more to do with the street drugs they’re vaping than the actual process. Guess Big Vape hasn’t established their lobbying sufficiently. A few months of contributions and the issue will miraculously be solved.


    They should talk to the gun lobby about how to do it properly. The real trick is to make people conflate responsibility with taking their rights away.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:49 am
  • hgwellz12 wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Love Chapelle's solution. If every black person went out and legally bought a gun the 2nd amendment would be repealed the day after.

    That's the most realistic solution I've ever heard.


    It’s not possible for every black person to go out and legally buy a gun, It’s not possible for any race of people to do so.

    Felony convictions, amongst other things make it impossible.



    pehawk said LEGALLY right there in his post. And your response to it speaks VOLUMES about your subconscious and
    further proves just how absolutely brilliant Dave Chapelle's social commentary, by using comedy, actually is! Your Spokane/Texas is showing pmedic. :lol:


    I know he said “legally”, I quoted it.

    Not everyone of any race can “legally” buy a gun, that was my point.

    My subconscious has zero to do with anything here.

    I’d say by your “Spokane/Texas” comment, your the one being prejudiced here.
    pmedic920
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:50 am
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    hgwellz12 wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Love Chapelle's solution. If every black person went out and legally bought a gun the 2nd amendment would be repealed the day after.

    That's the most realistic solution I've ever heard.


    It’s not possible for every black person to go out and legally buy a gun, It’s not possible for any race of people to do so.

    Felony convictions, amongst other things make it impossible.



    pehawk said LEGALLY right there in his post. And your response to it speaks VOLUMES about your subconscious and
    further proves just how absolutely brilliant Dave Chapelle's social commentary, by using comedy, actually is! Your Spokane/Texas is showing pmedic. :lol:


    I know he said “legally”, I quoted it.

    Not everyone of any race can “legally” buy a gun, that was my point.

    My subconscious has zero to do with anything here.

    I’d say by your “Spokane/Texas” comment, your the one being prejudiced here.

    Exactly. Textbook reverse racism by hgwellz12.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:13 am
  • JustTheTip wrote:
    hgwellz12 wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Love Chapelle's solution. If every black person went out and legally bought a gun the 2nd amendment would be repealed the day after.

    That's the most realistic solution I've ever heard.


    It’s not possible for every black person to go out and legally buy a gun, It’s not possible for any race of people to do so.

    Felony convictions, amongst other things make it impossible.



    pehawk said LEGALLY right there in his post. And your response to it speaks VOLUMES about your subconscious and
    further proves just how absolutely brilliant Dave Chapelle's social commentary, by using comedy, actually is! Your Spokane/Texas is showing pmedic. :lol:


    While I agree that pmedic likely missed the overall point of pehawks post, I don't think his response at all speaks the VOLUMES you are trying to make it speak.


    I didn’t miss anything.

    I enjoy Chapelle’s comedy generally but I think this particular joke was stupid and inappropriate.

    It suggests that maybe there would be some type of race war with guns?

    If every black person had a gun, white people would want to get rid of guns?

    My post was mainly directed at Pe, he stated that he thought “this” was the best solution, I was trying to highlight that there was a big hole in his solution. Just like other solutions he’s come up with. There is no one perfect solution.
    Pitting “every” black person with a gun against the 2nd amendment is crazy and far from funny.

    What I stated is fact, and y’all can twist my words, put words in mouth if you want, it doesn’t change the fact in my post.

    Maybe Chapelle didn’t mean the comment as humor, it’s possible it was a true commentary of his opinion, I don’t know because I’m not aware of the context, if he truly believes this is a solution I’d be shocked.
    Not shocked that Pe thinks it is.
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