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 Post subject: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:47 pm 
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So I have a 2011 Legacy that is due for it's 30k service. I have looked around and the cheapest a dealer is willing to do it for is $370+tax. (Most expensive was 599+ for the same service.) That just seems high to me for what is done - LOF, rotate wheels and tires, replace cabin and air filter, change brake fluid and the rest is just inspection of systems.

So my question is this - if I have an independent shop do the work will it void my warranty? I can't find anything saying it will or won't.

I just mainly need the inspection portion done. I can change the cabin and air filters easily enough but would still have a shop do the fluid changes, as long as they have the correct type of fluids needed for my car.

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:08 pm 
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The federal Magnuson Act prevents car companies for voiding your warranty due to having required service done by a non-dealer. You need your receipts, of course. Most independent shops have something to that effect on the wall in their customer lobby.


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Sweet, that's what I was looking for. Never had a car new enough to have to deal with this type of stuff.

I knew this was the right place to ask.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:50 pm 
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If your car has 30k in miles... are you still in-warranty?

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:22 pm 
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I have a 100k mile warranty on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:51 am 
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Being a Subaru, it'll go 300,000 miles easily if you keep the oil changed. And, being a Subaru, the front camshaft oil seals will start leaking around 150,000 miles and drip oil onto the exhaust manifolds which are attached to the bottom of the heads (since it's a boxer engine). Just letting you know - if I were smart instead of good looking ( :mrgreen: ) I'd of had them changed with the timing belt at 105,000 miles. Now I'll be doing it myself at the next timing belt change, but I have to put up with the stinky oil smoke rolling out from under the hood at every stop light until I do. :pukeface:


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:49 am 
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GeekHawk wrote:
Being a Subaru, it'll go 300,000 miles easily if you keep the oil changed. And, being a Subaru, the front camshaft oil seals will start leaking around 150,000 miles and drip oil onto the exhaust manifolds which are attached to the bottom of the heads (since it's a boxer engine). Just letting you know - if I were smart instead of good looking ( :mrgreen: ) I'd of had them changed with the timing belt at 105,000 miles. Now I'll be doing it myself at the next timing belt change, but I have to put up with the stinky oil smoke rolling out from under the hood at every stop light until I do. :pukeface:


Dont forget that being a Subaru that it will sound like the exhaust flange gaskets are going bad at around 120k or so. A unique sound, but a Subaru sound. Harmless.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:10 am 
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If you're looking for a quality Independent Subaru Service center I would recommend Smart Service. http://www.smart-service.com/index.php

Fantastic guys and they will take care of you and your car.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:39 am 
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The Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act of 1974 is more about maintenance parts like filters than it is about who actually performs the work. The law basically says that if a manufacturer requires a specific part be used to maintain the warranty, that manufacturer must supply it to the consumer free of charge.

Look within the documentation that accompanies the owners manual of your car and find the maintenance schedule. 95% of the items required to be "serviced" at 30,000 miles are merely inspections and are not replacement or adjustment items. As long as you have 100% of the items on that checklist done according to the "severe service" mileage requirement, and your service provider gives you detailed documentation confirming the same, and you utilize equivalent (or better) oil, fluids, and filters, your warranty will not be voided.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:46 am 
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Scott, which synthetic oil do you think is best?

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:03 am 
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Your warranty will remain in effect regardless who does the service as long as you keep receipts. You can even do it yourself, just document everything. Maintenance items are not covered under any manufactory warranty and are a responsibility of the owner.
One other suggestion for a mech, there is an independent Subaru facility on State Street in Marysville. Looks to be a lower type overhead so maybe they deal. Google it if interested and enjoy your RuBarU.


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:15 am 
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Largent80 wrote:
Scott, which synthetic oil do you think is best?


Mobil 1 is by far the best-formulated synthetic passenger car motor oil for gasoline engines available on planet Earth. It is factory-fill for the Corvette and has been so for the last 15 years. Mobil 1 formulates their product to exceed the performance standards of every engine oil on the market, including those found in the racing market, like Red-Line, Torco, or Royal Purple (which I wouldn't put in my worst enemy's lawn mower). A close second would be the Pennzoil Ultra product line.

When it comes to diesel engines and, more-specifically, the new clean-burning late-models that use advanced EGR systems, the Shell Rotella T6 synthetic 5w40 is hands-down the best. The technology employed in the additive package alone cost them several million dollars to develop. No engine oil has been tested as extensively as the Rotella product line, and there is simply nothing that comes close to the level of protection it provides.

The thing about synthetic base oils that most people are unaware of, is that today's engine oils marketed as synthetic contain no true synthetic oil, or poly alpha olefins at all. Rather, highly-refined petroleum group III base stocks are put through a hydro-treating process using a catalyst which creates a base stock which duplicates the performance properties of a true synthetic oil. These newer base stocks can be called synthetic because Castrol won a court battle arguing that since this refinement process is technically a "synthesis", and the resulting product does the same thing, it can marketed as synthetic. Since PAO synthetics must be blended with esters to prevent attacking the seals in an engine, the cost to blend a true synthetic exceeds that of using highly-refined group III's. So, oil manufacturers have switched base stocks to the group III and group IV in order to make the bottom line work.

Mobil 1 is the only oil formulation I am aware of which still uses a proprietary tri-synthetic formulation that includes a true Poly Alpha Olefin component.

Another thing, for those that think that a synthetic oil protects an engine longer than a conventional oil, you are very, very wrong. Sorry. Regardless of what oil is used in an engine, the exact same combustion by-products are produced by that engine and are entrained in that oil in the same way. Un-burnt fuel, moisture, soot, dirt (silicates), etc. find their way into engine oil as the engine runs, that is what makes it get dirty. Additives in oil contain detergents and dispersants which surround the molecules of contamination and hold them in suspension until the oil is drained. Because these additives do not replenish themselves they are sacrificial to the process. Thus, there is a limit to how much contamination can be collected and kept from forming a deposit. All engine oils, synthetic or conventional, contain the same type of detergents and dispersants and they perform the same regardless of the base stock they are blended with. If you extend your oil drain interval, you are subjecting the inside of your engine to deposits like sludge and varnish which encapsulate water leading to corrosion and formation of acids.

Engine oil should be changed at a point in its life during which time all of the additives in the formulation are still doing their jobs. Additionally, laboratory testing has shown that the average engine holds 10-15% of the dirty oil inside during an oil change. This means that the moment you start your engine after the oil change, your fresh oil is being contaminated by what you just drained out. Laboratory testing has also shown that the point at which the additive packages start to lose the battle is 4500 miles. Me? I change my oil at 3500 miles. A good balance of cost vs. protection. This holds true across the board, gas or diesel.

Sorry for the novel, I'm passionate.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:38 am 
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Well, I knew you were the person to ask. The reason I did is we just bought a new Escape, and it is recommending synthetic oil only.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:43 pm 
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I change my truck oil every 3000-3500 as well Scott. My truck just rolled over 200k and runs like a top and leaks no fluids.
And $370 for a 30k service ain't bad. Try the overpriced Harley servicing. A 5k is $400 and $300 of that is labor (at $100 per hour). Now I DO get a transfer case fluid change, tranny fluid change, oil change (all synthetic) and a LOT of lubing of throttle, clutch, etc. and thorough inspection of stuff like drive belt and so on. But, the pisser to me is that they're paying the guy that does the work like $25-30/hr. and charging me $100. If I was only a decent maintenance/mechanic type. Sigh.



And thanks to everyone that mentioned the issues/quirks to be prepared for with a Subaru as my Mrs. bought a new Forester last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:53 pm 
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Regarding the shop rate vs the mech's pay, one has to look at what the mech doesn't have to shell out. Shop insurance, uniforms, good will, the building and the maintenance it requires, the service writers, service manager, the expense of a parts department and it's employees, the chick that answers the phone, janitorial...there is quite a bit more.
With all that in mind, I try my best to keep my rigs out of a service department as much as possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:04 pm 
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LudwigsDrummer wrote:
Regarding the shop rate vs the mech's pay, one has to look at what the mech doesn't have to shell out. Shop insurance, uniforms, good will, the building and the maintenance it requires, the service writers, service manager, the expense of a parts department and it's employees, the chick that answers the phone, janitorial...there is quite a bit more.
With all that in mind, I try my best to keep my rigs out of a service department as much as possible.

A fair point but they're still too high.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:32 pm 
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hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
LudwigsDrummer wrote:
Regarding the shop rate vs the mech's pay, one has to look at what the mech doesn't have to shell out. Shop insurance, uniforms, good will, the building and the maintenance it requires, the service writers, service manager, the expense of a parts department and it's employees, the chick that answers the phone, janitorial...there is quite a bit more.
With all that in mind, I try my best to keep my rigs out of a service department as much as possible.

A fair point but they're still too high.


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:45 am 
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Magnuson-Moss is about a lot more than parts and warranties. It is like Title IX is the most MISUNDERSTOOD piece of legislation in the history of education. Magnuson-Moss is the most MISUNDERSTOOD piece of legislation in the history of consumer protection. I recommend every person who wants to be an informed consumer reads it very carefully, and then go a few steps further and read some of the case law that related to it (as it still does and only further cemented it as law). Companies hated the legislation, but it has made it possible for many of us to make a living. So I really appreciate it, and I could care less that there is no longer a Ford dealership on every corner because of it. It's for the betterment of society and the economy.

Magnuson-Moss has been affiliated with cars, but it goes SO much further. Apple computers ran afoul of it in fact a couple of years ago. This is why their new products are all "sealed" without removable bottoms or tops. This helps them to avoid having to comply with Magnuson-Moss because they state that nothing is serviceable by an end user and thus voids the warranty. This didn't hold up when the battery, hard drive, and RAM could all be easily replaced in a Macbook with a screw on bottom (like I have and will continue to use until I buy a non-Apple 'sealed unit' computer).

I've seen the act brought up in discussions when I was a rep for a couple of major softball bat manufacturers. They tried to have players banned from organizational ball for "warranty voiding" and selling their "intellectual property" on eBay after modifications. Magnuson-Moss was brought up and the potential for a lawsuit against eBay for removing auctions and reporting seller's personal info just because they had modified a softball bat. The manufacturers claimed that by changing the makeup of a composite bat by removing parts of the interior was misrepresentation of their product. People fought back and said that it was their product to modify and the only loss should be loss of warranty protection for modifying it when it wasn't meant to be (just as if you had bored out your engine and expected Subaru to repair it if you blow it drag racing).

The case law is actually really interesting, and seeing how little ol' Frank Moss (Republican surprise surprise from Utah) wrote something with such long lasting impact with Magnuson and the OTHER Moss (Democrats surprise surprise from California) is really cool. It was actually a time when some things got done that looked out for the little guy, and I'm glad that Magnuson and the Moss guys got together and put this thing together, because it changed a lot of stuff and has a massive impact to this very day. Another area it has had an impact is on telephone service believe it or not. Anybody remember that you had to have your phone installed by, leased from, and serviced by Ma Bell? I sure as hell do, and I'm glad that went away. We'd be stuck with ISDN at the most right now if it weren't for changes to that whole fiasco.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:56 am 
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Small detail - Warren Magnuson was the long-time D senator from Washington. Along with Henry Jackson, who ran for the D nomination for prez in 76 and was beaten by a peanut farmer. Both were re-elected time after time, and rose to become major power brokers in DC. When Magnuson wanted something done it came to be.


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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:15 am 
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LudwigsDrummer wrote:
hawksfansinceday1 wrote:
LudwigsDrummer wrote:
Regarding the shop rate vs the mech's pay, one has to look at what the mech doesn't have to shell out. Shop insurance, uniforms, good will, the building and the maintenance it requires, the service writers, service manager, the expense of a parts department and it's employees, the chick that answers the phone, janitorial...there is quite a bit more.
With all that in mind, I try my best to keep my rigs out of a service department as much as possible.

A fair point but they're still too high.


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Touche' :D

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:27 am 
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HoustonHawk82 wrote:
Largent80 wrote:
Scott, which synthetic oil do you think is best?


Mobil 1 is by far the best-formulated synthetic passenger car motor oil for gasoline engines available on planet Earth. It is factory-fill for the Corvette and has been so for the last 15 years. Mobil 1 formulates their product to exceed the performance standards of every engine oil on the market, including those found in the racing market, like Red-Line, Torco, or Royal Purple (which I wouldn't put in my worst enemy's lawn mower). A close second would be the Pennzoil Ultra product line.

When it comes to diesel engines and, more-specifically, the new clean-burning late-models that use advanced EGR systems, the Shell Rotella T6 synthetic 5w40 is hands-down the best. The technology employed in the additive package alone cost them several million dollars to develop. No engine oil has been tested as extensively as the Rotella product line, and there is simply nothing that comes close to the level of protection it provides.

The thing about synthetic base oils that most people are unaware of, is that today's engine oils marketed as synthetic contain no true synthetic oil, or poly alpha olefins at all. Rather, highly-refined petroleum group III base stocks are put through a hydro-treating process using a catalyst which creates a base stock which duplicates the performance properties of a true synthetic oil. These newer base stocks can be called synthetic because Castrol won a court battle arguing that since this refinement process is technically a "synthesis", and the resulting product does the same thing, it can marketed as synthetic. Since PAO synthetics must be blended with esters to prevent attacking the seals in an engine, the cost to blend a true synthetic exceeds that of using highly-refined group III's. So, oil manufacturers have switched base stocks to the group III and group IV in order to make the bottom line work.

Mobil 1 is the only oil formulation I am aware of which still uses a proprietary tri-synthetic formulation that includes a true Poly Alpha Olefin component.

Another thing, for those that think that a synthetic oil protects an engine longer than a conventional oil, you are very, very wrong. Sorry. Regardless of what oil is used in an engine, the exact same combustion by-products are produced by that engine and are entrained in that oil in the same way. Un-burnt fuel, moisture, soot, dirt (silicates), etc. find their way into engine oil as the engine runs, that is what makes it get dirty. Additives in oil contain detergents and dispersants which surround the molecules of contamination and hold them in suspension until the oil is drained. Because these additives do not replenish themselves they are sacrificial to the process. Thus, there is a limit to how much contamination can be collected and kept from forming a deposit. All engine oils, synthetic or conventional, contain the same type of detergents and dispersants and they perform the same regardless of the base stock they are blended with. If you extend your oil drain interval, you are subjecting the inside of your engine to deposits like sludge and varnish which encapsulate water leading to corrosion and formation of acids.

Engine oil should be changed at a point in its life during which time all of the additives in the formulation are still doing their jobs. Additionally, laboratory testing has shown that the average engine holds 10-15% of the dirty oil inside during an oil change. This means that the moment you start your engine after the oil change, your fresh oil is being contaminated by what you just drained out. Laboratory testing has also shown that the point at which the additive packages start to lose the battle is 4500 miles. Me? I change my oil at 3500 miles. A good balance of cost vs. protection. This holds true across the board, gas or diesel.

Sorry for the novel, I'm passionate.



I prefer Redline for the exact reasons you give above. Out here Redline is the preferred oil for truckers about 8-1. I do think all the major synthetics are good (as opposed to great). I don't like the stuff O'Reilly's sells under their name. Everyone I know that tried it started using oil.

Our son in law used Mobile 1 in their 87 pocket rocket Golf we got from them but I changed over to Castrol and didn't notice any difference in oil pressure or temperature protection. (forgive me we are friends with John Force in this household so have used Castrol for a long time)

One thing I have learned about the new 4 cylinder cars. The manufacturers REQUIRE the use of synthetic oil because it will handle the higher heat range they have to run in to give the power we want from our cars. I panicked when our Golf ran at 240 but was assured that's very common and not a problem unless its gets near 260.

I know you're the expert here and normally always bow to your statements. I've only been using synthetics for about 7 years but sure like it. When we put the new crate motor in the Suburban I changed regular 10-30 at 500 miles and at 1,000 switched to Castrol synthetic. Never used a drop since and runs comfortably in heat range even pulling a 7,000lb trailer up hill.

but wouldn't use Ams Oil to lube the wheels on my Grandkids bicycles!

:les:

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:16 pm 
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So I changed the air filter and the cabin filter for a total of $25 in parts and about 8 minutes of my time. When I called to schedule my service with those not needing to be done the price dropped to $149.00. Much better.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:45 pm 
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tomahawk wrote:
So I changed the air filter and the cabin filter for a total of $25 in parts and about 8 minutes of my time. When I called to schedule my service with those not needing to be done the price dropped to $149.00. Much better.


So, is the cabin filter on that Subi buried deep, or did they make it easier to get to?

Some of those cabin filters require serious parts removal.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:58 pm 
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The Radish wrote:
HoustonHawk82 wrote:
Largent80 wrote:
Scott, which synthetic oil do you think is best?


Mobil 1 is by far the best-formulated synthetic passenger car motor oil...

...A good balance of cost vs. protection. This holds true across the board, gas or diesel.

Sorry for the novel, I'm passionate.



I prefer Redline for the exact reasons you give above. Out here Redline is the preferred oil for truckers about 8-1. I do think all the major synthetics are good (as opposed to great). I don't like the stuff O'Reilly's sells under their name. Everyone I know that tried it started using oil.

Our son in law used Mobile 1 in their 87 pocket rocket Golf we got from them but I changed over to Castrol and didn't notice any difference in oil pressure or temperature protection. (forgive me we are friends with John Force in this household so have used Castrol for a long time)

One thing I have learned about the new 4 cylinder cars. The manufacturers REQUIRE the use of synthetic oil because it will handle the higher heat range they have to run in to give the power we want from our cars. I panicked when our Golf ran at 240 but was assured that's very common and not a problem unless its gets near 260.

I know you're the expert here and normally always bow to your statements. I've only been using synthetics for about 7 years but sure like it. When we put the new crate motor in the Suburban I changed regular 10-30 at 500 miles and at 1,000 switched to Castrol synthetic. Never used a drop since and runs comfortably in heat range even pulling a 7,000lb trailer up hill.

but wouldn't use Ams Oil to lube the wheels on my Grandkids bicycles!

:les:


Ah, ah, aaahh, you said the "A" word... :141847_bnono:

One of my jobs at P/QS was to collect samples of every oil imaginable and pour them into lab sample bottles for comparative bench testing. So the lab geeks didn't know what they were testing, we'd simply assign a number to otherwise-identical sample containers. I'd reconnect the numbers to the manufacturer after the stats guy threw out the outliers and quantified the data.

Trying to hook up with an Assoil dealer to buy a quart or two was a real pain in the tookus. They didn't like their product to be tested (for some strange reason) so I had to tell white-lies to get some.

After seeing test results, I wouldn't use Assoil to lubricate the hinges of a toilet seat.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:13 pm 
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I convinced my best friend to try synthetic oil in his Cummins diesels and the next thing I know he's become an "A" word dealer. Not happy with me for not using it but again he knows that we were friends with John Force before he becamse famous and use Castrol.

I do like their product for antigelling. Trying to get me to use their oil is like trying to get me to use Turtle Wax on my Suburban baby rather than Meguiar's. I feel the same about it you do about Mobile1 (When you care enough to send the very best)

I laugh at people talking about the various car waxes they use now a days. Ain't happenin folks. There ain't no wax in that car wax. lol

When I first tried Meguiar's Nxt Gen & and then 2.0 I laughed at how careful they were to make that synthetic stuff smell like wax.

:D

Sure works great tho. If you don't like the price of the new waxes please remember that having first quality oats is more expensive than oats that gone through the horse first.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:12 am
Posts: 2465
Location: Skagit, WA
HoustonHawk82 wrote:
tomahawk wrote:
So I changed the air filter and the cabin filter for a total of $25 in parts and about 8 minutes of my time. When I called to schedule my service with those not needing to be done the price dropped to $149.00. Much better.


So, is the cabin filter on that Subi buried deep, or did they make it easier to get to?

Some of those cabin filters require serious parts removal.



Drop the glove box and it's right behind it. Simple and easy.

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 Post subject: Re: Subaru service question
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:57 am 
* Dirty Harry *
* Dirty Harry *
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Location: Magnolia, Texas
Nice.

I swear some of the first ones that began appearing went down the assembly line first, then the vehicle was built around them.

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