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Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (SPOILERS)

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  • DYLcurry59 wrote:1. A New Hope
    2. The Force Awakens
    3. The Empire Strikes Back
    4. Return of the Jedi
    5. The Phantom Menace
    6. Rogue One
    7. Revenge of the Sith
    8. Attack of the Clones


    That's one spicy take.

    I rate them...

    1. ESB
    2A. ANH
    2B. RO
    4. TFA
    5. RotJ
    6. RotS
    7. TPM
    8. AotC
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  • 1. ESB
    2. ROTJ
    3. ANH
    4. TFA
    5. RO
    6. Rebels
    7. Clone Wars
    8. Holiday Special
    9. Ewoks Movies
    10. Droids Cartoon
    11. All other comics, cartoons, books, wookiepedia, YouTube channels, the Star Wars shirt I'm wearing
    12. Thinking about Star Wars
    13. Hearing Star Wars music randomly playing in the background
    14. Nissan Rogue commercials
    15. A whole bunch of any and everything else Star Wars related
    16. Prequel Trilogy
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  • If you want it ranked by personal favorites, its:

    1. RotJ
    2. ESB
    3. ANH
    4. Rogue One
    5. TFA
    6. RotS
    7. TPM
    8. AotC

    If you want it by best actual films, its:

    1. ESB
    2. ANH
    3. Rogue One
    4. RotJ
    5. TFA
    6. RotS
    7. TPM
    8. AotC

    I cannot stress enough how truly awful Attack of the Clones actually is. The Phantom Menace pales in comparison.

    BTW, Return of the Jedi, while not as good a film as the first two, very nearly redeems itself by how phenomenal the throne room sequence at the end was before Lucas ruined it in the Blu-Ray with Vader's childish 'NO!' scream. It ruined all the subtext of Anakin's return to the light, and made it a selfish act.
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  • JGfromtheNW wrote:
    DYLcurry59 wrote:1. A New Hope
    2. The Force Awakens
    3. The Empire Strikes Back
    4. Return of the Jedi
    5. The Phantom Menace
    6. Rogue One
    7. Revenge of the Sith
    8. Attack of the Clones


    That's one spicy take.

    I rate them...

    1. ESB
    2A. ANH
    2B. RO
    4. TFA
    5. RotJ
    6. RotS
    7. TPM
    8. AotC


    I know it's not a good film by any means, but I have a soft spot for The Phantom Menace. Has a lot to do with when it came out, and Darth Maul is a bad ass. The lightsaber duel with Maul, Qui Gon, and Obi Wan is one of, if not the best in the series.

    I loved The Force Awakens. Has a few tiny flaws, but it's pretty much everything I wanted from a 2015 Star Wars film.

    Only reason that ESB isn't second is that I just don't like Yoda, especially in ESB. He's a really annoying muppet when we first meet him. And C3PO is really annoying in this one too.

    I didn't really like Rogue One at all. Didn't like or care about any of the new characters, except K2SO. The last 2 minutes is worth the price of admission alone, though.

    Attack of the Clones is by far the worst of the series.
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  • To open his meeting with the media, Seattle's leading receiver discussed his fascination for Star Wars, offering a favorable review of the franchise’s newest installment, Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, Star Wars’ first standalone film that hit theaters last month.

    “I thought it was really well done,” Baldwin said. "It connected seamlessly. The storyline I thought was brilliant. As a Star Wars fanatic, as a fan, once you got to the end of it when you saw Darth Vader, when you saw Princess Leia, you felt it, and it brought back some good memories, some good childhood memories.”
    Baldwin said A New Hope was the first film he saw in the series, but The Empire Strikes Back has to be his favorite.

    "I just got the first six on DVD,” he said. “So eventually when I get time outside of football I’ll be able to go back and watch them all.”


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  • DYLcurry59 wrote:
    I know it's not a good film by any means, but I have a soft spot for The Phantom Menace. Has a lot to do with when it came out, and Darth Maul is a bad ass. The lightsaber duel with Maul, Qui Gon, and Obi Wan is one of, if not the best in the series.


    I was in a two week funk, like someone died in my family after walking out of Phantom Menace.

    Never has there been, or never will there be a movie I was that hyped for.................I must have watched the trailer 100 times leading up to seeing it the opening weekend.

    I went home and told my wife I was pretty sure George Lucas just ruined my childhood............and it only got worse from there with Clone Wars.

    I offer no hyperbole whatsoever when I say the prequels should be wiped from history, so we can act like they never existed.

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  • I believe more strongly than ever that a lot of people subconsciously suffer from "thank-god-it's-not-prequel-itis" and perceive these newer films as being a bit better than they really are.
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  • How many times have you seen Rogue One?
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  • Look like they cut and pasted the whole film.. bored me to tears... at least they discovered Email.
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  • Zebulon Dak wrote:How many times have you seen Rogue One?

    Twice.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:I believe more strongly than ever that a lot of people subconsciously suffer from "thank-god-it's-not-prequel-itis" and perceive these newer films as being a bit better than they really are.


    That could be, but on the other end of the spectrum I think a lot of people think the originals were better than they are as well, because we all grew up as big fans and wax poetic about them.

    Let's face it, other than Empire, both OG Star Wars and especially Return of the Jedi were anything but perfect movies.

    I put both Force Awakens and Rogue One in the same category as OG Star Wars and Return, very good, but not in the rarified air of Empire.

    What I like about the new movies is IMO Abrams and the new stable of producers and directors have recaptured what the Star Wars movies meant to us, and have tapped into that nostalgia..............as well as delivering some great cinematography, acting, set design, characters, etc.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:That could be, but on the other end of the spectrum I think a lot of people think the originals were better than they are as well, because we all grew up as big fans and wax poetic about them.

    Let's face it, other than Empire, both OG Star Wars and especially Return of the Jedi were anything but perfect movies.

    I put both Force Awakens and Rogue One in the same category as OG Star Wars and Return, very good, but not in the rarified air of Empire.

    What I like about the new movies is IMO Abrams and the new stable of producers and directors have recaptured what the Star Wars movies meant to us, and have tapped into that nostalgia..............as well as delivering some great cinematography, acting, set design, characters, etc.

    I didn't see Star Wars until I was a teen; not likely to have been the case with me, it wasn't part of my childhood.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:That could be, but on the other end of the spectrum I think a lot of people think the originals were better than they are as well, because we all grew up as big fans and wax poetic about them.

    Let's face it, other than Empire, both OG Star Wars and especially Return of the Jedi were anything but perfect movies.

    I put both Force Awakens and Rogue One in the same category as OG Star Wars and Return, very good, but not in the rarified air of Empire.

    What I like about the new movies is IMO Abrams and the new stable of producers and directors have recaptured what the Star Wars movies meant to us, and have tapped into that nostalgia..............as well as delivering some great cinematography, acting, set design, characters, etc.

    I didn't see Star Wars until I was a teen; not likely to have been the case with me, it wasn't part of my childhood.


    Same similarity, you're holding these new movies up to a standard that has been over inflated by time and nostalgia.
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  • Rogue One > TFA. way more action...no attempt really at comedy...better actors...darker storyline...Also Vader killing rebel scum was awesome.
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  • Cyrus12 wrote:Rogue One > TFA. way more action...no attempt really at comedy...better actors...darker storyline...Also Vader killing rebel scum was awesome.


    No attempt at comedy? That was basically the sole purpose of K2SO as well as "seriously, I'm blind" line when they put the bag over the blind guy's head.
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  • Seanhawk wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:Rogue One > TFA. way more action...no attempt really at comedy...better actors...darker storyline...Also Vader killing rebel scum was awesome.


    No attempt at comedy? That was basically the sole purpose of K2SO as well as "seriously, I'm blind" line when they put the bag over the blind guy's head.


    Considerably less comedy than TFA. Relatively speaking I think what he said is fair.

    I'm on 5 viewings now and that's probably about where I'll leave it until I get the digital copy. Saw TFA 10 times in theaters for reference. I can't help but wonder what the general feeling about RO would be if we didn't already know what was going to happen next and how all that plays out. Like, imagine if that's the first time you ever saw Darth Vader. Is he badass and amazing then? Or is it like a wtf moment?
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  • Dont really want to tell people how much they should or shouldnt like a movie, but I guess I will say I see quite a bit of missing the point-isms and sort of historical blindness.



    When you claim people like the movies or over rate the movies because they arent the prequels, Id agree and disagree but mostly say you arent "getting it". For reasons too deep to go into here, Star Wars means a lot to a lot of people and , yes, a lot of those people (myself included) were fairly outraged by the prequels and feel the damage the whole Star Wars story, universe, whatever. So when TFA came out it was a huge relief that the movie felt like Star Wars again. I dont know anyone who "over rates" the movie, that is , claims the movie is a truly great movie on its own merits. Literally NO ONE.. on this board Zeb is probably the biggest Star Wars fan and Im probably top 10, but as far as I can tell neither of us consider it great film making in the artistic sense. Its not bad at all. If you were a film school student youd probably give it a 7. When people say they love it, and its great..what they mean is it makes them FEEL great. And that is impossible to call "over rating". How the movie makes people feel is legit. For me, for 2 hours Im inside my 11 year old selfs imagination.. right when I was growing out of toys but would still play with them occsaionally off on my own and I constantly made my own stories about what happened to Luke, Han, Leia after and between the movies. I got to explore more of the galaxy that my mind had been to for hours..except actualized. How can anyone say I am over rating the movie when thats the effect it had on me?


    As far as those saying things along the lines of "well, lets be honest, Star Wars and Return of the Jedi werent that great either, they were pretty good".. that is seeing things from the long telescope of 2017. In 1977 Star Wars was utterly revolutionary. It did things that had never been done before. If youre hung up on Lukes whining or stilted dialog then you just dont get it or simply dont remember what 1977 was like. The special effects for the first time made spaceships and blasters seem real..Chewbacca looks real.. the concepts, borrowed from Eastern religions and earlier sci fi were repackaged to feel legit.. The Force..hyperspace.."droids?", 5 year old me thought, too shy to ask anyone what the difference was between a robot and a droid was. In 2017 maybe Star Wars is just ok.. but in 1977 it was a whole new type of movie..and its influence on culture and even vocabulary and idioms shows that. Its also not "high art", but despite that even high browed film students in 1977 would give it a 9 or 10 for its revolutionary influence.


    As far as Rogue One goes.. its brilliant in what its meant to do. Its not perfect, but one thing that is exceptional is that its a prequel that doesnt contradict what its a prequel to, one thing the prequels did in nearly every other scene. I dont really get the idea that there is no character development as both main characters have a clear arc, and director Krennic is actually quite nuanced.. Its meant to be an action movie that shows you how the Death Star plans were stolen.. which it does.. giving us thrills along the way and introducing interesting worlds and fascinating characters along the way..hallmarks of Star Wars. A sign its a success? Quotes from it are already showing up in popular parlance and K-2SO is proving incredibly popular.

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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:That could be, but on the other end of the spectrum I think a lot of people think the originals were better than they are as well, because we all grew up as big fans and wax poetic about them.

    Let's face it, other than Empire, both OG Star Wars and especially Return of the Jedi were anything but perfect movies.

    I put both Force Awakens and Rogue One in the same category as OG Star Wars and Return, very good, but not in the rarified air of Empire.

    What I like about the new movies is IMO Abrams and the new stable of producers and directors have recaptured what the Star Wars movies meant to us, and have tapped into that nostalgia..............as well as delivering some great cinematography, acting, set design, characters, etc.

    I didn't see Star Wars until I was a teen; not likely to have been the case with me, it wasn't part of my childhood.


    Same similarity, you're holding these new movies up to a standard that has been over inflated by time and nostalgia.

    If anything, that effect is greater in virtually everyone here to do having it be a much larger childhood impact on them as compared to me. Ipso facto, I'm more likely to be a less partial observer...

    Now, once the first The Dark Tower film comes out next summer, I'll freely admit that I will have massive trouble evaluating it accurately and free of bias. Hell, I'll already admit that right here and now.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:That could be, but on the other end of the spectrum I think a lot of people think the originals were better than they are as well, because we all grew up as big fans and wax poetic about them.

    Let's face it, other than Empire, both OG Star Wars and especially Return of the Jedi were anything but perfect movies.

    I put both Force Awakens and Rogue One in the same category as OG Star Wars and Return, very good, but not in the rarified air of Empire.

    What I like about the new movies is IMO Abrams and the new stable of producers and directors have recaptured what the Star Wars movies meant to us, and have tapped into that nostalgia..............as well as delivering some great cinematography, acting, set design, characters, etc.

    I didn't see Star Wars until I was a teen; not likely to have been the case with me, it wasn't part of my childhood.


    Same similarity, you're holding these new movies up to a standard that has been over inflated by time and nostalgia.

    If anything, that effect is greater in virtually everyone here to do having it be a much larger childhood impact on them as compared to me. Ipso facto, I'm more likely to be a less partial observer...

    Now, once the first The Dark Tower film comes out next summer, I'll freely admit that I will have massive trouble evaluating it accurately and free of bias. Hell, I'll already admit that right here and now.


    I think we're splitting hairs, just because you were a teenager and not 8 when you saw the originals doesn't mean you don't have an over inflated opinion of those movies compared to these new ones.

    The fact is both the new movies are good to great movies, and everyone of note, including 90% of critics agree. I'm sorry you don't agree Roland, cause IMO you're missing out.
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  • The world is absolutely filled to the brim with examples of most people agreeing on something, and being factually wrong about it. Hell, just look at the thread literally right below this one about The Mandela Effect.

    Most people agreeing on something is never an accurate basis for judging facts or truth.

    A lot of people around here think I'm stubborn and can't admit when I'm wrong, but as of now, I think I'm the only person in this whole thread that has openly admitted to letting bias affect his judgment on a film. In advance before the film's even out, no less. Not seeing very many of you admit that there may be some truth in my "thank-God-the-new-ones-aren't-the-prequels" theory.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:The world is absolutely filled to the brim with examples of most people agreeing on something, and being factually wrong about it. Hell, just look at the thread literally right below this one about The Mandela Effect.

    Most people agreeing on something is never an accurate basis for judging facts or truth.

    A lot of people around here think I'm stubborn and can't admit when I'm wrong, but as of now, I think I'm the only person in this whole thread that has openly admitted to letting bias affect his judgment on a film. In advance before the film's even out, no less. Not seeing very many of you admit that there may be some truth in my "thank-God-the-new-ones-aren't-the-prequels" theory.


    The Mandela Effect is related to objective facts, whether something was actually said or done as remembered are not. You are asserting, essentially, that people are overestimating how much that ENJOYED something. Because that is what most people mean when they say they really like a movie. They arent reading a text on the art of cinema and saying "Well, it lacked a classic archetype in the protagonist role and the third act was overly emphasized and therefore its only a mediocre film." What they are saying is "wow.. they movie took me away to another time and place and I loved how it got my imagination going about a galaxy far, far away..loved the thrill of seeing new parts of that galaxy, and spending a few moments with some old friends"..

    And you seem to be saying they are "overrating" that. Are you saying they DIDNT feel that way? Repeat: NO ONE IS CALLING IT HIGH ART.. its not Holst's Jupiter or a Akiko Yosano tanka poem. Its a well made film that achieves every one of its goals, arguably. So, yes, its a good movie. Its ridiculous to try and convince people they didnt enjoy it as much as they think they did, like youre some sort of objective wizard that can see in the true hearts of people.

    When I say the film is good film because I wanted x, y, and z from it and it did that.. and it met all the basic needs of a story..how are you going to even pretend that isnt true?
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  • Vetamur wrote:Its ridiculous to try and convince people they didnt enjoy it as much as they think they did, like youre some sort of objective wizard that can see in the true hearts of people.

    A couple of points. One, why is it ok that people assert that of me, but not me of them? Two, it's very well established that memories are subjective and we let our perception of them be altered over time by the general feeling we recall from that time.

    Vetamur wrote:When I say the film is good film because I wanted x, y, and z from it and it did that.. and it met all the basic needs of a story..how are you going to even pretend that isnt true?

    I'm not pretending that isn't true. Let me explain. I love horror films. The genre as a whole is my favorite. There are plenty of horror films that I love, and think are great; but which I realize are NOT great. My love of the genre colors my opinion on all the horror films I see, and I realize and admit that. For instance, I really like Alien 4, Predator 2, and Tales from the Hood a lot. I also admit that not one of those is actually a good horror film.

    Catching a theme in my line of reasoning?
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  • I find no matter what type of movie that if you go in looking for flaws you will find them, if you go to escape your world or to be entertained and are slapped with a bad movie that brings you back to your world because things jump at you due to being so bad either story, special effects, unbelievable situations without a justifiable plausibility, or acting then it's a bad film.

    If you go to a fantasy or Sci Fi Film looking at it critically like Critics do there is going to be a lot they don't like, they are not going to be entertained but to rate it.

    That's why many films tank for critics but are popular amongst viewers.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Vetamur wrote:Its ridiculous to try and convince people they didnt enjoy it as much as they think they did, like youre some sort of objective wizard that can see in the true hearts of people.

    A couple of points. One, why is it ok that people assert that of me, but not me of them? Two, it's very well established that memories are subjective and we let our perception of them be altered over time by the general feeling we recall from that time.

    Vetamur wrote:When I say the film is good film because I wanted x, y, and z from it and it did that.. and it met all the basic needs of a story..how are you going to even pretend that isnt true?

    I'm not pretending that isn't true. Let me explain. I love horror films. The genre as a whole is my favorite. There are plenty of horror films that I love, and think are great; but which I realize are NOT great. My love of the genre colors my opinion on all the horror films I see, and I realize and admit that. For instance, I really like Alien 4, Predator 2, and Tales from the Hood a lot. I also admit that not one of those is actually a good horror film.

    Catching a theme in my line of reasoning?


    Yes.

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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Yes.

    You're a pretentious sphincter.

    Apparently it takes being one to admit that emotions color my opinions of things.
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  • Personally it was the worst SW film I've watched. I've only seen it the once but I was bored for maybe 80% of it and was glad when it ended. Tastes are different though, a lot of people I know who grew up on PC Star Wars games think it was easily the best SW film ever made. That's the thing for me though, it's just a long war movie, so I can see why they like it

    Could not have been more different from Force Awakens when I could not wait to watch it again and did several times at the cinema. I'll still get Rogue One on blu-ray and will watch it again at some point. Hopefully it will be better second time around

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  • Y'all are so caught up in FanBoyism that you can't even go watch a movie and actually enjoy it.
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  • retro74 wrote:Personally it was the worst SW film I've watched. I've only seen it the once but I was bored for maybe 80% of it and was glad when it ended. Tastes are different though, a lot of people I know who grew up on PC Star Wars games think it was easily the best SW film ever made. That's the thing for me though, it's just a long war movie, so I can see why they like it

    Could not have been more different from Force Awakens when I could not wait to watch it again and did several times at the cinema. I'll still get Rogue One on blu-ray and will watch it again at some point. Hopefully it will be better second time around

    I didn't they that they could make a worse SW film that Attack of the Clones but kudos to Disney for doing so


    I was with you till that last sentece haha. HOW.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Catching a theme in my line of reasoning?


    You fancy yourself a contrarian, I know a lot of people like this. They love nothing more than to take dumps on popular music, movies and TV. Then when you ask them what they like they list some obscure band, movie or TV show no one's ever heard of, because it makes them feel special I guess? IMO it's a form of pretentiousness.

    Art is subjective, but a mainstream movie like Rogue One is not some french arthouse film that we can debate the merits of. It's a very straight forward movie made by very competent people and is critically accepted by both professionals and fans alike.

    So are you "wrong" Roland if you don't like it? No, because again art is subjective, but if we're digging deeper into this, being different is what you take pride in anyway right?
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    Sgt. Largent
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  • That supposedly terrible movie crossed $500 million domestically today, 7th movie to ever do that, though admittedly, that's less impressive than it used to be. I think you're wrong about the movie, Roland, but I will admit that complete public brainwashing that a bad film is good is possible. Hell, it's the only way anyone can explain the popularity of Avatar.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    Catching a theme in my line of reasoning?


    You fancy yourself a contrarian, I know a lot of people like this. They love nothing more than to take dumps on popular music, movies and TV. Then when you ask them what they like they list some obscure band, movie or TV show no one's ever heard of, because it makes them feel special I guess? IMO it's a form of pretentiousness.

    Art is subjective, but a mainstream movie like Rogue One is not some french arthouse film that we can debate the merits of. It's a very straight forward movie made by very competent people and is critically accepted by both professionals and fans alike.

    So are you "wrong" Roland if you don't like it? No, because again art is subjective, but if we're digging deeper into this, being different is what you take pride in anyway right?

    I love all kinds of popular stuff and I don't regularly dump on popular things. I'm one of the earliest haters of Bevell on this whole forum, and the "favorite TV shows" threads that occasionally pop up have me listing almost nothing that is obscure; same with the "favorite music" threads. Don't confuse being contrarian with calling out BS. I admitted that emotions and personal bias play a big role in how I interpret things, and I haven't seen anyone else in this thread with the humility to do the same. I pointed out that I'm less likely to be affected by "nostalgic childhood romance" if you will in terms of my adult interpretation of new Star Wars films because they weren't a part of my early or middle childhood like they were for almost all of you, yet people told me I'm wrong about that.

    That's just logical; it's not contrarian. I'm digging my heels in on this because despite bringing it up a couple of times now, NOBODY ELSE is admitting they may suffer from the SAME THING I already admitted I suffer from, just not related to THIS particular film franchise.

    If there's pretentiousness in this thread, it's actually not ME that's leading it. Not to say I'm not pretentious sometimes; I am. Just not in this thread.
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    RolandDeschain
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    That's just logical; it's not contrarian. I'm digging my heels in on this because despite bringing it up a couple of times now, NOBODY ELSE is admitting they may suffer from the SAME THING I already admitted I suffer from, just not related to THIS particular film franchise..


    Rogue One was a stand alone movie that set out to tell the story of how the Rebel Alliance got the plans to the death star, and it accomplished what it set out to do extremely well.

    So again, I'm not sure where the criticisms come from. It's well paced, well acted, cinematography, set design and production are through the roof...........and had some of the best action set pieces this side of the battle of Hoth. Plus I give Disney credit for going much darker than any previous Star Wars movies.

    Is it a perfect movie? Hell no, but it's certainly not a bad movie.

    IMO anyone expecting more from a spaghetti western series in space either has unrealistic expectations or missed the mark entirely.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Rogue One was a stand alone movie that set out to tell the story of how the Rebel Alliance got the plans to the death star, and it accomplished what it set out to do extremely well.

    So again, I'm not sure where the criticisms come from. It's well paced, well acted, cinematography, set design and production are through the roof...........and had some of the best action set pieces this side of the battle of Hoth. Plus I give Disney credit for going much darker than any previous Star Wars movies.

    Is it a perfect movie? Hell no, but it's certainly not a bad movie.

    IMO anyone expecting more from a spaghetti western series in space either has unrealistic expectations or missed the mark entirely.

    I never said it was a bad movie. I said it was "alright;" if you need a dictionary, then please use one. There's a pretty big difference between "alright" and "bad."

    You're acting like I screamed out in front of a ton of people that your kid sucks after he let an opposing player score a goal on him on the soccer field. Such a predictable response, lol. I can have a different opinion than you, it's alright. As far as the acting, some very good some very much not. Forest Whitaker was terrible in it, and I know from his past body of work that he's a very good actor. Felicity Jones felt a bit too disconnected off and on throughout the film; I think Diego Luna did a better job as far as the acting goes. They also tried to cram too much in as far as characters go, considering the fact that basically everybody dies at the end. Some of the characters from other Star Wars films felt like they were put in as afterthoughts, too.

    Also, it wasn't dark, that's the thing. I'm not the only one that thinks these things:

    https://www.wired.com/2016/12/geeks-guide-rogue-one/

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/20 ... 250c3e7b09
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    RolandDeschain
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  • Purchased this movie at a local mart yesterday and just finished watching it. I did not read any of the quotes here as I like to make my own opinion about programs. I actually enjoyed a few bits and pieces and they pretty much did a great job in my humble opinion. I am a monster Star Wars fan. I watched Star Wars A new Hope once a month when it came out on vcr and I got my first vcr and a 19inch tv. As I said before somewhere here, I went and saw Jedi at a cost of 60 or so a month back when it came out for about 4 months. That was bus ride, room, and ticket.
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