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New Tesla Roadster: 0-60 in 1.9s, 1/4 mile in 8.9s

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  • Wow. This is ridiculous performance. $200,000 to buy, with the first 100 models off the line being a special edition that costs $250k. Specs below are for the base model, and Elon Musk said the actual specs for the production model may even be a little faster.

    0-6 in 1.9 seconds, 0-100 in 4.2 seconds, and 1/4 mile in 8.9 seconds. Top speed is over 250 miles per hour, and the range is an eye-popping 630 miles.

    https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/16/tesla ... w-roadster

    :shock: :shock: :shock:
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  • A cool aspect of electric motors is that full torque is produced at 0 rpm, so they naturally accelerate like gangbusters. Just gotta have big enough batteries and wires to deliver the juice. Apparently this one does!
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  • There are actually some pretty good technical reasons why the Teslas are blowing the doors off the other electric cars, both in performance and range. Mostly it has to do with the fact that they use AC induction motors (which don't use brushes, and actually don't have any physical connections between the batteries and the rotor). I believe every other manufacturer uses brushed motors, and most use DC to power them. Tesla can use sophisticated 'space vector' algorithms to control the torque while optimizing the induced current in the rotor to eliminate wasted energy. We designed 'Tesla light' controllers for one of my classes in grad school, but there wasn't time to implement the last part in the 12-week course. Otherwise they worked pretty well!
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  • Amazing numbers, but I do fear that some of the magic of being a car guy will be lost when all cars have an electric motor. No more unique performance statistics or the wonderful sounds of a burbling exhaust note. No more shifting to exploit the sweet spot in the power band. So much of the finesse of enthusiast driving will be gone.

    Lament of the old buster that I am I guess. :les:
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  • I'm an old-school gearhead (built and raced a NASCAR-legal street stocker back in the day), so I actually agree. Also a geek with an MSEE, so I see the attraction of the electrical shit. My personal favorite present projects involve carb'd motorcycles and a 1967 F100 with a much-modified '74 Merc 400M and a C-6...
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  • Ride the technology wave, boys. Don't be like the old farts 100 years ago who lamented the loss of the horse and buggy to that newfangled automobile thing.

    :lol:

    In all seriousness, this thing likely has new challenges nobody here has probably ever faced. Being able to handle this thing to the level it's capable of without crashing it - I mean, the kind of acceleration and raw power from 0-60 in 1.9 seconds...good Lord. Even current chase scenes in Fast & the Furious are slow by comparison to what one could do with the new Roadster.
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  • Honestly, one of the biggest challenges is the electrical infrastructure. People are going to want to charge these things overnight, and in the US 5 houses are typically served by a transformer that's only big enough to handle those 5 houses plus about 1.5 chargers. Maybe I should invent car chargers that talk to each and time-slice the charging load between them...
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  • I suspect that part of Tesla's reasoning for making their own battery factory is to come up with a product to sell Tesla owners a discounted battery pack (smaller Powerwall) that they can burst-charge Tesla vehicles with.
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  • GeekHawk wrote:Honestly, one of the biggest challenges is the electrical infrastructure. People are going to want to charge these things overnight, and in the US 5 houses are typically served by a transformer that's only big enough to handle those 5 houses plus about 1.5 chargers. Maybe I should invent car chargers that talk to each and time-slice the charging load between them...


    But one thing you have to remember only 1 in 100,000 houses maybe can afford one, or want one.

    Down side is they are in the same neighborhood as a average.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:Ride the technology wave, boys. Don't be like the old farts 100 years ago who lamented the loss of the horse and buggy to that newfangled automobile thing.

    :lol:

    In all seriousness, this thing likely has new challenges nobody here has probably ever faced. Being able to handle this thing to the level it's capable of without crashing it - I mean, the kind of acceleration and raw power from 0-60 in 1.9 seconds...good Lord. Even current chase scenes in Fast & the Furious are slow by comparison to what one could do with the new Roadster.



    That's test track, you can always add some kind of limiter to slow the power transfer, they put governers on gasoline cars to reduce top speed, they can add and change charge and rates for acceleration easily, a few Ohms of resistance and a change in a capacitor and you can reduce current rates and RC time constants. In fact you probably could build the same engine and change out some of that stuff and have a variety of power levels off the same architecture with just a few tweaks for performance.
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  • chris98251 wrote:But one thing you have to remember only 1 in 100,000 houses maybe can afford one, or want one.

    Down side is they are in the same neighborhood as a average.


    Actually, what I said holds for all electric cars. Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, Prius, etc.
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  • GeekHawk wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:But one thing you have to remember only 1 in 100,000 houses maybe can afford one, or want one.

    Down side is they are in the same neighborhood as a average.


    Actually, what I said holds for all electric cars. Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, Prius, etc.



    In that case depending on where you live knock a zero off that, in Seattle with all the tree huggers and bring your own grocery bag people knock off two.
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  • Is it fast? Absolutely.
    Is it fast for long? Who knows?
    If I had the cash, would I buy one? Hell no. I like a car with S-O-U-L. Not an overgrown Power Wheel.
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  • WmHBonney wrote:Is it fast? Absolutely.
    Is it fast for long? Who knows?
    If I had the cash, would I buy one? Hell no. I like a car with S-O-U-L. Not an overgrown Power Wheel.

    I can visualize old farts saying the same thing about a well-bred horse with a lightweight buggy over those ridiculous newfangled "automobiles" 100 years ago.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    WmHBonney wrote:Is it fast? Absolutely.
    Is it fast for long? Who knows?
    If I had the cash, would I buy one? Hell no. I like a car with S-O-U-L. Not an overgrown Power Wheel.

    I can visualize old farts saying the same thing about a well-bred horse with a lightweight buggy over those ridiculous newfangled "automobiles" 100 years ago.

    Snark all you want, he is right.
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  • How about you guys define what makes a car have "soul?"
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:How about you guys define what makes a car have "soul?"


    It's like a Woman, a combination of looks, personality / character and how they ride.
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  • Plus a little bit of hard-to- get-along-with... Easy to drive cars have no soul.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:How about you guys define what makes a car have "soul?"


    Each car is unique in its performance qualities...an identity, basically. Much of the uniqueness of a car is the motor. It is the heart and soul of the driving experience, always has been. When every car has an electric motor that will be almost completely predictable in performance then some of the magic of driving (and the love) will be lost.

    -------
    I get the horse and buggy comment, and from a performance standpoint, you can make that argument, sure. The Tesla's numbers are stunning. Still doesn't change the fact that making the motor an interchangeable item will lessen the impact of each vehicle in comparison to other cars in the same category. Which sucks.
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  • I hate Tesla cars and the company itself (along with pretty much all of Musk's other businesses) can't exist without significant government subsidy. While 0-60 in 1.9 seconds is an impressive technical feat, it's nothing groundbreaking as Tesla isn't doing much to drive motor or battery technology. They are simply using off-the-shelf products and bolting them on to a rolling chassis that's been given some extra aerodynamic love.

    I'd be very surprised to learn of other manufacturers using brushed motors in their EVs. That's simply too inefficient and too unreliable to be true, especially given how inexpensive microprocessors are these days, as they are the "secret sauce" to making brushless motors work. Even the first generation Prius used a brushless motor. The reason the Tesla is able to accelerate like it does is a combination of two things: traction and amperes. The battery packs in Tesla cars are "bricks" wired in series to produce a voltage of around 400V DC. That power is fed to speed controllers where it's modulated in to multiple phases of square wave AC where the DC offset is such that the low period of the waveform peaks at 0 volts.

    I've built a 1/8th scale RC car with a brushless motor smaller than my fist that produces in excess of 5 horsepower at full crank. With a 22 volt battery system (6 LiPo cells in series), it's capable of accelerating its 8 pounds of mass to over 110mph, and it reaches that speed in just a few seconds.

    Tesla cars are the iPhone of the automotive world. They take pre-existing tech and wrap it in an aesthetically pleasing package, to market to a technologically savvy Millennial audience with more dollars than sense. The company was founded to line Elon Musk's pockets with money from federal subsidy programs aimed at "green energy". Now that the program providing owners with free recharging services has ended, I have a hard time seeing Tesla surviving through all the huge losses they post on a quarterly basis.
    Last edited by SmokinHawk on Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Prius, Leaf, Volt, etc use DC motors. Tessa uses AC induction ('squirrel cage') motors. The space vector algorithms are way more sophisticated than anything you can do with DC, and are Tesla's ace in the hole.
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  • What else do you need your magnetic field to do, other than turn the rotor? Modern brushless DC motors have built-in sensors that detect the rotor position and speed controls designed to operate sensored motors can dynamically adjust magnetic field vectors. The tech that drives my RC car to insane speeds is a sensored motor and suitable speed control. It's a matter of efficient motor tech and the ability to flow 200+ amps to it in the form of modulated polyphase DC.

    Fundamentally, an AC induction motor and DC brushless motor operate on similar concepts, with the primary difference being a DC motor requires a strong magnet on the rotor. Efficiency between the two designs is nearly identical (85-95%), but AC induction requires an inverter (assuming a DC power source like batteries), which negates the advantage of running without a magnet on the rotor.

    It's a wash, really. The motor tech offers no major advantages, but is based on a Nikola Tesla patent filed in the late 1800s, which is probably why they settled on it seeing as how aesthetics and optics matter most to this company.
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  • Geez, Smokin'. Even I admit that Apple's original iPhone did great things for the smartphone industry.

    P.S., How are you NOT looking forward to Space X's pending satellite Internet service? Gigabit up and down with 30-40ms latency over satellite will be stupidly awesome.....and a game-changer for one of my clients at work who is an ocean services maritime company that pays $10k+ per month for a couple megabits down and a megabit up of 500-700ms latency satellite Internet on their vessels in the middle of the ocean. $10k per vessel.
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  • Trenchbroom wrote:Amazing numbers, but I do fear that some of the magic of being a car guy will be lost when all cars have an electric motor. No more unique performance statistics or the wonderful sounds of a burbling exhaust note. No more shifting to exploit the sweet spot in the power band. So much of the finesse of enthusiast driving will be gone.

    Lament of the old buster that I am I guess. :les:



    Much like the luster that is lost when, Hydro's went to jet propulsion..
    The sound and fury is part of the excitement and without it, it's just tofu.
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