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Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk

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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:19 pm
  • Star Wars is Good vs Evil Cowboy's and Indians, The Man with No Name, ( Clint Eastwood ) Vs Indio, there was depth and a back history and build up, characters whether reluctant hero's or glory chasers were vetted. Don't get that feeling with this stuff as much.

    To much trying to make a quick payoff, sure you may see some good CGI but where's the Fairy Godmother at that touched these characters and made them suddenly experts in everything out of the gate.

    That's the Disney influence.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:32 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:Star Wars is Good vs Evil Cowboy's and Indians, The Man with No Name, ( Clint Eastwood ) Vs Indio, there was depth and a back history and build up, characters whether reluctant hero's or glory chasers were vetted. Don't get that feeling with this stuff as much.


    This is actually mostly untrue. In the original trilogy we got virtually zero back story on any of the characters. We explored virtually nothing about what made them who they are. We just got to see them in the present and learn about who they are as we went, but not about who they were or how they got there, for the most part. We forget now because we've gotten so much back story, be it through the prequel trilogy, novels, comic books, guides, etc. But outside of a handful of phrases or bits of information here and there throughout the movies, we knew almost nothing about where any of these characters came from or what made them who they became.

    chris98251 wrote:To much trying to make a quick payoff, sure you may see some good CGI but where's the Fairy Godmother at that touched these characters and made them suddenly experts in everything out of the gate.

    That's the Disney influence.


    I don't care much about CGI as long as it isn't overtly overused or terrible, and I don't buy much into the whole "Mary Sue" thing people have a problem with, and I disagree that it's about making a quick payoff. Sure, it's about making a payoff, no less could really be expected (arguably only the very first Star Wars film was made without the expectation of making a ton of money off of it, and even then a ton of money was definitely the hope), but if it were just about a quick payoff they wouldn't have spent what they did on Solo and still released it when they did, knowing that it wasn't going to perform well. They took a hit on it for the sake of moving the franchise forward, with the hopes of long term success. This has always been about long term success for them.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:11 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Also, just wanted to say that you can count me as one who truly enjoys the direction this franchise has gone under Disney and am very much looking forward to seeing where it goes from here, assuming there's still enough of us left for Disney & Lucasfilm to continue with their planned trajectory. I have my fair share of criticisms and expectations not being met just like the rest of you, there's things I wish they'd done totally different, but when I step back and remember that I don't watch movies, tv, or read comics books or novels in the hope that it's somehow my personal vision being realized, I can let go of most of that stuff and just enjoy it (not saying that's the only reason people don't like these movies, but I think it is a very big part of why a lot of people don't like these movies). When I think about what they've done in recent years with other franchises that I love like TMNT and Transformers, I feel very fortunate to actually be enjoying Star Wars and feeling like the people involved honestly care about the product. Hollywood's Hollywood, and Disney is very much a part of what is both good and bad about the way things work over there, but I truly believe that they're doing their best to create exiting, enjoyable, memorable characters, settings, situations and movies. It may be time for them to take a breath, take a step back, sort of reevaluate their strategy, but based on what they've done so far, and the things they've put in place for what they plan to do in the future, I'm pretty thoroughly satisfied. I hope they do more of the familiar, and at the same time branch out to give us more (much more) of the unexplored. Again, just my opinion. This is how I feel about it. I don't expect anybody share the same experience.


    I really agree with the bolded section here. The silver lining for me is that I feel Star Wars has been handled very well so far, especially when compared to other franchises and IPs that we've seen Hollywood (and even Disney) use as little more than cash grabs designed to take advantage of the nostalgia factor. I stated above in another post that I actually like just about everything Disney has done with Star Wars since they took over, so it's not just a "look this is a more shiny turd than the others" situation. IMO it speaks to the quality and the care that is being put into their projects.

    The more I reflect on Solo, the more I like it and think it's done a good job of being both familiar and a breath of fresh air. We got to see some really cool stuff, some iconic moments like the Kessell run and some weird shit. I saw a take that I really enjoyed, "it was both the least creative and most creative new Star Wars movie at the same time." Least creative because it's a movie that exists solely to check all the boxes of Han's past - how he and Chewy met, how he and Lando met, how he acquired the Millennium Falcon, how he became a pilot/smuggler/etc. (though I wish we would have seen him actually in the Imperial Flight Academy). And most creative because we saw a bunch of new crazy stuff that we've never seen in Star Wars.

    We saw a rag tag group that didn't look like they were part of the rebellion/resistance with individual costumes and flamboyant colors, we saw the underbelly of the criminal world, we saw a tyrannical two story tall vampire-caterpillar lady, we saw crazy shit in space that included a giant black hole tentacle monster, a train heist, new technology/weapons, etc., etc., oh yeah and we got to see a former Sith Lord running a crime syndicate. Cool stuff for the Star Wars big screen. It wasn't the most original story, but the details were, and that's what makes it so enjoyable I think. I'll be going again for a second time tonight. :2thumbs:
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:55 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:Not all Howard's fault, but Han Solo IS a smartass that comes from a gritty underground world full of scoundrels and backstabbing.

    Solo and Howard didn't deliver any of that. So why not see where Lord and Miller could have gone, rather than play it safe and get scared.

    Solo's an OK movie, but it resembles nothing of what Han Solo means to the Star Wars universe. It's a generic sci-fi movie that just so happens to have characters with names we know.


    I completely disagree with you on this. I think that, aside from the fact that we can't actually have young Harrison Ford (the single main driving force behind the personality of the character of Han Solo IMO) Kasdan, Howard & Ehrenreich (and Lord & Miller, depending on how much of their vision made it through the cutting room) did as good a job as could be expected in capturing that character, that personality that would have been reasonable and realistic for a Han Solo who's 10-13 years younger than the one we met in A New Hope. I don't think it was perfect, but I do think it was really well done, as good or better than I'd hoped, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find any combination of creators that could do a better job. They managed to capture the true essence of the character in an actor who doesn't particularly look or sound anything like Harrison Ford, without it feeling like an impression or impersonation. Obviously how one perceives, interprets and absorbs any actor's portrayal, and particularly one of a character that is long admired and beloved like Solo, is totally subjective to the viewer's thoughts and experiences. So I'm not minimizing or disregarding your opinion, just sharing mine as a contrast.

    Also, just wanted to say that you can count me as one who truly enjoys the direction this franchise has gone under Disney and am very much looking forward to seeing where it goes from here, assuming there's still enough of us left for Disney & Lucasfilm to continue with their planned trajectory. I have my fair share of criticisms and expectations not being met just like the rest of you, there's things I wish they'd done totally different, but when I step back and remember that I don't watch movies, tv, or read comics books or novels in the hope that it's somehow my personal vision being realized, I can let go of most of that stuff and just enjoy it (not saying that's the only reason people don't like these movies, but I think it is a very big part of why a lot of people don't like these movies). When I think about what they've done in recent years with other franchises that I love like TMNT and Transformers, I feel very fortunate to actually be enjoying Star Wars and feeling like the people involved honestly care about the product. Hollywood's Hollywood, and Disney is very much a part of what is both good and bad about the way things work over there, but I truly believe that they're doing their best to create exiting, enjoyable, memorable characters, settings, situations and movies. It may be time for them to take a breath, take a step back, sort of reevaluate their strategy, but based on what they've done so far, and the things they've put in place for what they plan to do in the future, I'm pretty thoroughly satisfied. I hope they do more of the familiar, and at the same time branch out to give us more (much more) of the unexplored. Again, just my opinion. This is how I feel about it. I don't expect anybody share the same experience.

    What makes you enjoy these movies? Just curious, after all most of this is all subjective. From my eyes Disney has tanked the franchise. I can dig that you like them trying something new -- they obviously will need to now that the original main cast has been killed. No more Luke, Leia Han, no more trilogies that include Obi Wan, Yoda, etc. They will have to completely develop a new set of well known characters for the first time. I think Disney is in a dangerous place, no longer can they rely on nostalgia for their main films.

    I wanted to say one more thing here, Rey is the epitome of Mary Sue. In fact the term Mary Sue needs to be replaced with the term "Rey" at this point. Here is a good explanation of why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvDso1B2_I8

    The character of Rey is just byproduct of bad writing, which is plaguing the entire Star Wars franchise at this point. It really seems like some kind of bizarre fan fiction at this point.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:20 pm
  • I kind of think asking somebody to explain why they like a movie is a little weird. I'm not sure I can quantify exactly why I like them because it's kind of abstract and complex. But at the same time it's very simple. I like them because when I sit down to watch them I enjoy what I'm watching. I like them because I find them interesting and entertaining. I like them for the same reason I liked the original trilogy: because I enjoy the characters and the way they interact with each other and their surroundings. I like the stories, the lore, the concepts, the ideas, the conflict, the victories, the losses, the connections. I like watching the Millennium Falcon fly off from a planet into space. I like most things about these movies. I like how they look, how they sound, how they feel, and I like the stories. And I like the cinematography. And I like the acting. And I like the special effects and the costume design. I like the music. I like how they connect to the original trilogy and I like how they branch off from it. I like when Han, Chewie and Finn are on Starkiller Base looking for Rey and Finn spots her across the way climbing up a giant wall. I Like when K2 tells Bohdie "you're a rebel now!" I like when the First Order blasts the shit out of Luke, and then we realize Luke isn't really there on Crait but Force projecting his image. I like Chewie's reaction to Han's cards during his second game of Sabacc with Lando. I like Snoke. I like that Kylo killed Snoke, but didn't turn to the light side. I like that Rey is searching for her family but she may never find them. I like Saw Gerrera. I like that things with Han and Leia didn't end happily ever after. I like that these movies weren't based on any books (speaking of bizarre fan fiction, that's what most of the old EU is) or video games.

    There's things I don't like, and one of them was that I thought Rey learned how to use the Force too quickly, without much actual training. Would I have done that differently were it up to me? Sure. But it's not that big of a deal. It doesn't ruin the movie for me. I hate that Leia and Chewie don't have a moment the first time they see each other after Han's death. I think that some of the guts of Rogue One and The Last Jedi are a little slow and boring and have pacing issues. I don't like that Lady Proxima spoke English when all the other aliens around her did not; I thought she would have been much more palpable for audiences if she spoke an alien language. Would I change those things if it were up to me? Sure I would. But they don't take away from the movies enough to lessen my enjoyment.

    I dunno. I think I have a pretty good grasp on why some people don't like these movies, or like certain ones but not others. I think that some of the reasons are totally legit, and I think that some of the reasons are nit picky, and I think that some of the reasons are unreasonable. I think that a lot of people don't like the ideas of these movies more than they don't like the movies themselves and I know that is true because if you peruse movie review sites you will see countless bad reviews that start with "I refuse to see this movie..." But people are allowed to like and not like anything they want for whatever reasons they choose. I would like to not have to read about all the reasons people don't like them every time I open Facebook but I guess that's more of a me problem than a them problem.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:52 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:I kind of think asking somebody to explain why they like a movie is a little weird. I'm not sure I can quantify exactly why I like them because it's kind of abstract and complex. But at the same time it's very simple. I like them because when I sit down to watch them I enjoy what I'm watching. I like them because I find them interesting and entertaining. I like them for the same reason I liked the original trilogy: because I enjoy the characters and the way they interact with each other and their surroundings. I like the stories, the lore, the concepts, the ideas, the conflict, the victories, the losses, the connections. I like watching the Millennium Falcon fly off from a planet into space. I like most things about these movies. I like how they look, how they sound, how they feel, and I like the stories. And I like the cinematography. And I like the acting. And I like the special effects and the costume design. I like the music. I like how they connect to the original trilogy and I like how they branch off from it. I like when Han, Chewie and Finn are on Starkiller Base looking for Rey and Finn spots her across the way climbing up a giant wall. I Like when K2 tells Bohdie "you're a rebel now!" I like when the First Order blasts the shit out of Luke, and then we realize Luke isn't really there on Crait but Force projecting his image. I like Chewie's reaction to Han's cards during his second game of Sabacc with Lando. I like Snoke. I like that Kylo killed Snoke, but didn't turn to the light side. I like that Rey is searching for her family but she may never find them. I like Saw Gerrera. I like that things with Han and Leia didn't end happily ever after. I like that these movies weren't based on any books (speaking of bizarre fan fiction, that's what most of the old EU is) or video games.

    There's things I don't like, and one of them was that I thought Rey learned how to use the Force too quickly, without much actual training. Would I have done that differently were it up to me? Sure. But it's not that big of a deal. It doesn't ruin the movie for me. I hate that Leia and Chewie don't have a moment the first time they see each other after Han's death. I think that some of the guts of Rogue One and The Last Jedi are a little slow and boring and have pacing issues. I don't like that Lady Proxima spoke English when all the other aliens around her did not; I thought she would have been much more palpable for audiences if she spoke an alien language. Would I change those things if it were up to me? Sure I would. But they don't take away from the movies enough to lessen my enjoyment.

    I dunno. I think I have a pretty good grasp on why some people don't like these movies, or like certain ones but not others. I think that some of the reasons are totally legit, and I think that some of the reasons are nit picky, and I think that some of the reasons are unreasonable. I think that a lot of people don't like the ideas of these movies more than they don't like the movies themselves and I know that is true because if you peruse movie review sites you will see countless bad reviews that start with "I refuse to see this movie..." But people are allowed to like and not like anything they want for whatever reasons they choose. I would like to not have to read about all the reasons people don't like them every time I open Facebook but I guess that's more of a me problem than a them problem.

    Fair enough. You accept all of the films problems yet still enjoy it. I can dig it.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:09 am
  • Sure. But I also think think more than half the "problems" people complain about are built off of unreasonable and insatiable expectations. There are legitimate flaws, and then there are the #NotMyLuke complaints. That's all I'm saying. There's a difference between "bad" movie making and fanboys who are pissed because the story didn't go the way they'd envisioned it all these years. Particularly the Darth Revan/Starkiller/Old Republic video game kids. Those are the ones who seem to be the most vocal about their dissatisfaction.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:47 am
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Sure. But I also think think more than half the "problems" people complain about are built off of unreasonable and insatiable expectations. There are legitimate flaws, and then there are the #NotMyLuke complaints. That's all I'm saying. There's a difference between "bad" movie making and fanboys who are pissed because the story didn't go the way they'd envisioned it all these years. Particularly the Darth Revan/Starkiller/Old Republic video game kids. Those are the ones who seem to be the most vocal about their dissatisfaction.



    You don't have Jesus portrayed through history as a male Carpenter and son of God and change him to a Female Gladiator who is the daughter of Zeus and call her Jesus just to make a buck and expect people to buy it.

    Story may be fine, but don't sell it as the Story of Jesus.

    30 years of a character and story line and then have it become something different. There is a Universe they built and the rules of that Universe are constant. Now you have some person in Disney or working for them saying lets change it all and it will sell tickets.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:09 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Sure. But I also think think more than half the "problems" people complain about are built off of unreasonable and insatiable expectations. There are legitimate flaws, and then there are the #NotMyLuke complaints. That's all I'm saying. There's a difference between "bad" movie making and fanboys who are pissed because the story didn't go the way they'd envisioned it all these years. Particularly the Darth Revan/Starkiller/Old Republic video game kids. Those are the ones who seem to be the most vocal about their dissatisfaction.

    Most of the complaints I see about star wars do not come to these people. Sure, they are there, but I think most fans in general are disappointed with Disney's iteration. The story telling is a legitimately bad in the new franchises, and people that gripe about this do make good points.

    The first point, and one I see talked about most are the characters, mainly Rey, and Kylo, especially Rey. She is called a Mary Sue because she is good at everything, even better then characters whom are supposed to be the best at their trade without any real backstory. That is a symptom of a bad story telling. For example, she is able to fly the millennium falcon better than Han when she picks it up, and fix the hyper drive when Han couldn't. She is a scavenger on a desert planet, scavenging revolves around taking things apart. Putting them back together is a whole different game all together. Her first time on the turret in the millennium falcon she lines up three tie fighters and blows them up in one shot. The millennium falcon turret doesn't work, and she is expertly able to maneuver the falcon so that the shot is lined up for Finn. This happened on her first time flying the damn thing, which Solo explains to Luke is "not like flying those crop dusters around your planet boy". Rey never had access to a vehicle with hyper drive yet was able to use, and fly it flawlessly.

    Rey used Jedi mind tricks on the guards. It took Luke three films to master, and he also spent significant time with the leader of the old Jedi order to master those kinds of skills. Rey did it without any training. This would have all been fine and good if she had, for example been part of the Jedi school, or had some kind of prior training. In the second film we learn that her backstory is that she was a "nobody". Luke also did not recognize her, she was an unknown. This is the definition of Mary Sue, and horrid story writing. Not only that, essentially trained herself on the island that Luke was on. Luke's "training" was quite pathetic. It was a small scene, she spent most of the time training herself on a rock. Despite this she was able to beat Luke, a Jedi who had learned his fighting skills from two Jedi masters, and was able to go toe to toe with Darth Vader and Palpatine in combat. This was all despite Rey having zero training in combat from anyone. Once again, she beats someone who is considered the best at his craft without any training, or any explanation for said skills for "reasons".

    Rey is also able to best Kylo Ren the first time she picks up a light saber. She is able to wrestle the lightsaber away from Kylo Ren using the force. Kylo was bested in force powers right off of the bat. This a man who trained with Luke for years, and also trained under who ever the Snoke was supposed to be. He is a trained killer with a lot of combat experienced, and a man that was said to be one of the most gifted force users by Luke. Boy what a red herring he turned out to be. Ren was beaten back by Finn, and also beaten by Rey. Kylo Ren is also saved by Rey when they are fighting the knights of Ren, meanwhile she is handily fighting 2-3 guys at a time. It took Luke three movies to finally best Vader. Every time he was on screen he did something horrific, and demonstrated his power. Luke got his arm lobbed off, and he lost every single conflict with him until the final fight, and after years of training and fighting. Ren gets beat by Rey, or saved by Rey during every conflict. How are we supposed to take a villain like this seriously? He is not threatening at all, in fact his fits of rage are more liable to send people into laughter than terror.

    All of the elements that make a good story and character are absent in this trilogy. There is no challenge for Rey to overcome. There is no heroes journey, or conflict. Rey also lacks any kind of motivation. She is just an empty shell of a character. There is no real reason behind her actions, she has no dogma, no reason for fighting. She is strong for 'reasons' and quite frankly I find this type of story telling insulting to my intelligence. Does Disney actually expect us to be able to root for such an empty character? I was happy in the original trailer to see Finn, or Rey presented as Jedi. I thought Finn's story in particular was an interesting back story for a Jedi. Disney botched both of their stories however. It could have been something interesting, but instead we got hollow characters, and cringe worthy punchlines at times that completely destroyed tension in the story. Hell, why are the "resistance" even called the resistance? They are the establishment. Everything in Star Wars has been handled in the most sloppy of manners.

    I think the main issue is they are pushing these movies out too quickly. They are overlooking details, and getting sloppy on the execution on the story. I don't think that there ever was a game plan here on Disney's part. Movies like Marvel are able to get away with it because they are relying on existing source material. Disney scrapped all of that, and is going with an original story. That is all fine and good, but it becomes much harder to write a story from scratch, develop a full script, and develop your characters within such a short time. I think Disney needs to slow their role, and release movies slower. They release a new Indiana Jones trilogy, then have a Star Wars side story movie like rogue one, then have a star wars trilogy. They have enough existing Lucas Film franchises to do this, and have three years between their main trilogies, whilst releasing a movie every single year.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:45 pm
  • Force abilities in Star Wars seem to match up quite well changing generations.

    Prequels - Baby Boomers - train all your life, to master the Force, one must.
    Original - Gen X - train for about a month in a swamp, yep, I'm good to go.
    New ones - Millennial - Just tell me two of the three lessons and I'm the best ever!
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:05 pm
  • HawkGA wrote:Force abilities in Star Wars seem to match up quite well changing generations.

    Prequels - Baby Boomers - train all your life, to master the Force, one must.
    Original - Gen X - train for about a month in a swamp, yep, I'm good to go.
    New ones - Millennial - Just tell me two of the three lessons and I'm the best ever!


    Spot on.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:14 pm
  • Spin - You have a lot of valid criticisms. You also have some things I disagree with and some things that I think you're looking at the wrong way, but I don't think I have the time or the mental energy right now to get into them (been a long weekend). Maybe tomorrow when I have some free time I'll dive in a little deeper on some of the stuff you mention. I appreciate your opinion though either way.

    You also sound like somebody who may have had some schooling for screenwriting or gotten into film making? Is that the case?

    **Edit: I shouldn't say "looking at wrong" I should say looking at or interpreting differently than I do. Just wanted to fix my tone there.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:51 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Spin - You have a lot of valid criticisms. You also have some things I disagree with and some things that I think you're looking at the wrong way, but I don't think I have the time or the mental energy right now to get into them (been a long weekend). Maybe tomorrow when I have some free time I'll dive in a little deeper on some of the stuff you mention. I appreciate your opinion though either way.

    You also sound like somebody who may have had some schooling for screenwriting or gotten into film making? Is that the case?

    **Edit: I shouldn't say "looking at wrong" I should say looking at or interpreting differently than I do. Just wanted to fix my tone there.

    I'm just an enthusiast. I've taken a class before for fun -- but I have never worked in film making in any official capacity (though it would be a dream of mine, more so with musical scores). I just like having these kind of conversations. I love analyzing the story, and production process of films in general, but even more so with the ones that are controversial, or perhaps bombed in theaters. It is very interesting to see what goes on behind the scenes of these movies, and the decision making that is happening. More often than not the overall arching themes are not the things that are bad. I actually think if Rian had more time to develop his story it could have been very good. It just came off as something that was rushed, and the end result was something that was more akin to a rough draft, or even story board. It didn't seem like it was a polished, or finished project.

    I think I can pin-point what happened. J.J Abrams got criticized, pretty heavily for his portrayal of the female staff on Star Trek. I think Rey was his attempt to make a strong female lead, almost as if it was an apology or compensation for messing what many saw as the objectification of women in the new Star Trek series. This isn't J.J Abram's first rodeo, he knows how easy it is to get the die hard fans to turn on him like rabid dogs. I think he was almost put in an impossible place between the folks and Hollywood, and the die hard fandom of Star Wars. He also only had one film to work with Rey, and develop her character, and then he finally gets to complete her story arch in the last film. Hell, who knows -- maybe even the fact that she is a "nobody" is a big red herring. I'm going to be interested how he develops her story in the final iteration.

    A completely new director was involved in the second story. The empire strikes back was also co written, and directed by someone other than Lucas, but he still had his hand heavily involved in the development here. I'm not sure as to what level Abrams was involved, if at all with any of the basic story elements. From what I heard he laid out suggestions, but Rian disregarded them and went in his own direction.

    So between an Abrams that it is afraid to stir the pot, and a completely different director that had a much different view of how the franchise should play out, we're left with a movie, and character development that feels a bit jarring. I really don't think that it is possible to make a Star Wars that pleases everyone, and certainly not in the time frame Abrams and Rian had.

    This leads onto my next point: time. One of my favorite directors in Hollywood, Christopher Nolan said what he had in his favor with the Batman trilogy was time. He also went onto say that the time afforded him opportunities to develop the characters, and their interactions in within the story, and sculpt the movie exactly how he envisioned it in his head. He went on to say that many directors do not have that privilege in today's movie world. Everyone is trying to be the next Marvel. I do not think that Star Wars is a movie you could, or should do the rapid fire development on. What Disney has forgotten, is that Marvel has over 79 years worth of of serializations behind them. For the most part they have stayed true to the original story lines -- or have combined elements from previous iterations of the same story. Star Wars does not have that endless source material to draw upon. Disney has decided to go the way of an original story as well, which really compounds the time crunch to make an epic space opera play out in an organic, and logical fashion. What is even worse, is the fact that the story is very rich in lore, and laws. I'm a Star Wars fan, and I think even I'd mess up a few with the time Rian had to work with.

    If Star Wars is going was ditch the EU, hell even if they kept it I don't think a year and half to two years is enough to flesh out a story that is on the scale of Star Wars. I think Disney's release schedule really has screwed with this trilogy in particular. They have enough material, as I said to draw it out to three years, yet still keep with a annual release from Lucas Films.

    Let me say this ... If given time I actually think Rian could make a decent film. He did a fantastic job directing breaking bad, and his solo works that has has written and directed have also been unique, and entertaining. I think some of the themes he attempted to tackle in the last film were too lofty for just one film, and as I said the story felt more like a story board than a finished product. Despite my disdain for the movie, I did like several elements they tried to tackle. If Rian could draw on some of his darker works, and is able to weave it in with some of his more interesting ways at attacking stories it could be one of the more intriguing Star Wars trilogies. For example, I really liked that in the end Kylo, while part of the darkside didn't want to be just a ruthless tyrant, he wanted to fix societies ails. The character of Kylo is a mess, and is disappointing, but I did like how Rian gave the impression that he wanted things to not just be black and white with him.

    Ah hell, this post is just me ranting.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:21 am
  • Spin Doctor wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    HawkGA wrote:
    The Last Jedi sucked. The Solo movie was really good. I'm sad it's not doing well at the box office as that does not bode well for future films in this particular series. But it was really good..


    The Last Jedi is directly responsible for the tepid response to Solo. It pissed off most hardcore Star Wars fans, to the point to where they don't want to get burned again.

    Disney has painted themselves into a corner with the Star wars franchise. The refuse to let writers and directors take the franchise in an edgier more bold direction, so it's not only leaving true fans feeling fatigued and bummed out with how safe and vanilla the series and side projects are.............they're also not attracting any new fans to the franchise.

    I get that they have a vision for how episodes 7-9 are to go (even though it's not really working), but to protect their precious Disney brand over allowing some more exciting direction for the side projects is pretty damn lame for this old Star Wars fan.

    I disagree with the fact that they have a vision for Star Wars. I think that where we are right now at this point in time, is because the Star Wars brand has no direction. Their goal is to emulate Marvel, but the thing with Marvel is they are using already established source material. They are keeping pretty close to the comic books from what I hear, They are also tying every movie together into an overarching universe. Star Wars had quite a bit of material with the extended universe but the folks at Disney set it on fire, and let it burn.

    The brand underneath Kathleen Kennedy has been managed very poorly. She had her name tied to all of the biggest projects that Lucas Film ever undertook. The thing that Disney has seemed to overlook is that her role was handling money, nothing to do with creative direction. We are seeing the result right here. Her main goal is to pump out movies as quick as possible, and with little regard for continuity, or story. Her handling of the directors has also been a nightmare to say the least. J.J Abrams laid out an outline for all three of the movies, the thing is he wasn't going to be the director for the second one -- he had something else going on. The guy that came in completely blew up his scripts, and outlines then completely rewrote the Last Jedi. This is why the film seemed so jarring compared to the force awakens. While the Force Awakens was not that great in my opinion, at least it captured the original feel of the series.

    This Last Jedi was what they call a cluster f---. It was a hastily thrown together story. It relied on deus ex machina style plot devices, and constant surprise to keep viewers interested. It was a train wreck of grandiose ideas and questionable plot lines. They tried to make the whole film a "Luke I am your father moment". The guy who did this script really should be ashamed of himself. This movie seemed like a 6th graders fan fiction, but I bet you a 6th graders fan fiction would be more coherent than this movie.

    In Solo we faced a similar director issue. Kathleen Kennedy hired the two directors behind "cloudy with a chance of meat balls". These guys were great at comedy, and ad lib style scripts, but a space opera like Star Wars was completely out of their realm of expertise. They said that they were under the impression that they were hired to direct a comedy when they originally shot the film. The film was shot, and they allowed ad lib, and random things to just happen, which was their MO, Kathleen Kennedy really should have taken that into consideration. Three weeks before the movie was due to be put into editing the two directors, and Kennedy decided to part ways. A director that close friends, and worked with Lucas on numerous occasions was brought in. The movie had veered so far off course that he had to completely re-shoot every scene in only three weeks. He called every single actor, and actress back in, some were not able to come back due to work on other movies. They were edited out of the movie. Every scene was then re-shot once again.

    The last thing I want to touch on is the over politicization of the Star Wars franchise. People look to films such as Star Wars as an escape from reality. A place to transport you to a new world, a new universe. I'm not going to go into much here, because politics is frowned upon in this forum. A good example of this is J.J Abrams coming out and saying that if you don't like this new Star Wars you're a bigot. No J.J we don't like the new Star Wars franchise because it is genuinely bad. Female leads didn't stop wonder woman from selling well, the gay love story of Brokeback mountain didn't stop people from shelling out money to watch that film in droves. Just recently Black Panther set records, and became one of the best selling movies of all time. Now that Star Wars is a flaming dumpster fire the directors, and Kathleen Kennedy are now blaming the fans. Now we're getting calls for the boycot of the new Star Wars. These people are insulting diehard fans, the people that go to the movie 6-7 times, the people that buy all the merchandise, and they wonder "why aren't the tickets selling?" It must be because we have a strong female lead, or we turned Lando into a fringe sexual identity, they are biggots!

    NO, people don't like Star Wars because your lead character is a Mary Sue. With a few days of training she was able to best a Jedi master. With no training she was able to beat a guy that was supposed to be gifted in the force, and had a whole life of Jedi training behind him. There is no heroes journey as I said before. We don't get to see Rey grow, we don't get to see the struggles, and journey of self discovery. She touches a light saber once and she is able to beat a man that was able to go toe to toe with Luke when he tried to kill him. We are teased that maybe she was a member of the school. When we learn that she is a nobody, it kind of makes the fact that she can use the force without any training asinine. More on this point, a little kid on the Casino planet uses the Force without any training as well. Not even Anakin, who supposedly was one of the most gifted force users wasn't able to do that. The whole story has taken place over a few months.

    We also don't like the new Star Wars because the plot is contrived. The purple haired ladies plan was idiotic, and the whole warp drive mechanics completely contradicted everything that the story had put into place in the story before hand. The last Jedi completely ignored set rules of the universe, it was like somebody vomited on a piece of paper and said HERE YA GO, HERE IS YOUR STORY, ENJOY. When fans call Kennedy and company on it, they insult them. This is why Star Wars is a burning dumpster fire right now. These people are insulting our intelligence, and resulting to name calling to deflect blame for their inability to best an average 6th graders fan fiction. These new Star Wars films are films that nobody asked for. Lucas Film needs to be purged of these idiots, and I believe they will be gone if the new Star Wars movie tanks. Disney will only put up with these kind of numbers for so long. They took one of the most valuable franchises and are driving it into the ground. It is hard to believe that Marvel and Star Wars exist under the same parent company. Sorry my post got a bit ranty, I was just floored by J.J Abrams, and Kennedy's remarks.


    I think stuff like this is why J.J. made that comment.

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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:30 am
  • You mean to tell me people don't like seeing their beloved hero, Lando Calrissian, portrayed as a pansexual space perv?

    I'm shocked.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:39 am
  • SmokinHawk wrote:You mean to tell me people don't like seeing their beloved hero, Lando Calrissian, portrayed as a pansexual space perv?

    I'm shocked.


    Lando was always a perv. The mere mention of the word "pansexual" by a writer and suddenly it's unforgivable? A "beloved hero" is no more because it's implied that, even though it's never actually portrayed in the movie, he might be into more than just banging chicks? Fanboys are such sissies.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:49 am
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:
    SmokinHawk wrote:You mean to tell me people don't like seeing their beloved hero, Lando Calrissian, portrayed as a pansexual space perv?

    I'm shocked.


    Lando was always a perv. The mere mention of the word "pansexual" by a writer and suddenly it's unforgivable? A "beloved hero" is no more because it's implied that, even though it's never actually portrayed in the movie, he might be into more than just banging chicks? Fanboys are such sissies.


    I think the fact the writer had to make a point of pansexualizing a character in a movie about Han Solo, is a pretty damning indictment on where we are at with regard to the entertainment industry.

    I'm not knocking pansexuality. It's just... Was it really necessary to attach Lando Calrissian to it? If it's not portrayed in the movie, why bother bringing it up unless you're trying to make a statement?
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:02 am
  • There's thousands of species of aliens in the galaxy, if Lando develops feelings or an attraction to some that aren't human then he's pansexual. It's as simple as that and it shouldn't hurt anybody's feelings. People get triggered by the term pansexual and their brain jumps right to shirts off at the bar, jello shots with a rainbow flag cape and a captain's hat. It's really time to loosen up about this shit.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:28 am
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:There's thousands of species of aliens in the galaxy, if Lando develops feelings or an attraction to some that aren't human then he's pansexual. It's as simple as that and it shouldn't hurt anybody's feelings. People get triggered by the term pansexual and their brain jumps right to shirts off at the bar, jello shots with a rainbow flag cape and a captain's hat. It's really time to loosen up about this shit.


    I don't think that's what pansexual means in today's parlance. At any rate, I don't wish to debate it further. This franchise has badly jumped the shark and there really is no saving it now.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:06 pm
  • SmokinHawk wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:There's thousands of species of aliens in the galaxy, if Lando develops feelings or an attraction to some that aren't human then he's pansexual. It's as simple as that and it shouldn't hurt anybody's feelings. People get triggered by the term pansexual and their brain jumps right to shirts off at the bar, jello shots with a rainbow flag cape and a captain's hat. It's really time to loosen up about this shit.


    I don't think that's what pansexual means in today's parlance. At any rate, I don't wish to debate it further. This franchise will continue to be one of the most popular and most successful franchises in history.


    FTFY
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:42 pm
  • Spin Doctor wrote:Star Wars does not have that endless source material to draw upon.

    Yes, they do; it's called the Expanded Universe. Disney just decided to burn it to the ground, instead...

    ;)
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:40 am
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:Star Wars does not have that endless source material to draw upon.

    Yes, they do; it's called the Expanded Universe. Disney just decided to burn it to the ground, instead...

    ;)


    I think Disney decided to reel back on the Expanded Universe and what could be considered canon because there was a bunch of contradictory stories that were nothing more than fanfiction with the go ahead from Lucasfilm.

    The Clone Wars (pre-Disney), Rebels (post-Disney) and Rogue One have drawn some select bits (Rogue One being an easter egg or two IIRC) from the EU, and I expect they'll continue to use some stories and details moving forward in their stories. I'd be shocked if we didn't get some Old Republic/Knights of the Old Republic stuff, especially when we consider there are a lot of movies and TV shows that've been announced. I think fans are pining to see Darth Revan, to learn about the Rule of Two, etc.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:46 am
  • BTW, thank the Force that Lucas sold to Disney. An interview with James Cameron that was published said he wanted to base the sequel trilogy around midichlorians, one of the most hated parts of the terrible prequel trilogy.

    The film-maker continued: "[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there's this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force."

    "You were creating a religion, George," Cameron chipped in.

    "Back in the day," George replied, "I used to say ultimately what this means is we were just cars, vehicles, for the Whills to travel around in.... We're vessels for them. And the conduit is the midichlorians. The midichlorians are the ones that communicate with the Whills. The Whills, in a general sense, they are the Force."


    Say what you will about what Disney has done with the sequel trilogy so far, but this would have been an awful direction to take the Star Wars main saga.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:56 pm
  • The old EU was trash. The farther they stay away from that the better. Same with midichlorians.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:41 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:The old EU was trash. The farther they stay away from that the better. Same with midichlorians.

    Much of the EU was trash. There are a few dozen very good books in it, though. Plenty for Disney to have made films based off of, two per year, for at least a couple decades.

    ...Or are you going to try and tell me that the Thrawn Trilogy, for example, couldn't have been a fantastic cinematic experience?

    Corporations never like to do this, but they COULD just admit they were wrong and allow select pieces into canon from the EU. Last I checked, United States federal law does not exclude this from happening. No reason they can't just cherry-pick from the EU.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:52 pm
  • The Thrawn trilogy was pretty good. The first problem is, like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I don't want to see rehashed stories, I don't want to see them make old books or video games into movies. I want to see new stories. But that's just me. I'm sure there are plenty of people that would be super happy to see those movies. And it's not like I wouldn't go see them, I totally would. It's just not necessarily the direction I want them to go right now.

    The second problem, particularly if they'd decided to start with Thrawn, is that you either have to recast the main characters (which obviously many many people would hate, just as much as anything else Disney has done so far) or you're doing it with old Han, Luke, Leia, etc, and I think that's a problem for that particular story. Personally, I would welcome a recast Thrawn trilogy, or at least a movie, and I imagine that's one of the main ideas that's been floated around the office with Filoni and the story team, so it's totally possible that's something we'll see at some point. But I completely get why they didn't come out of the gate with that.

    And then let's face it, the drop-off in the old EU from Thrawn to the next best stories is pretty significant. I think that taking elements of the old EU and incorporating it into the new movies, the way they've been doing, without completely adapting entire old books, is really they way to go. It's a good compromise, unfortunately the angry fanboys will never see it that way.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:58 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:The old EU was trash. The farther they stay away from that the better. Same with midichlorians.

    Much of the EU was trash. There are a few dozen very good books in it, though. Plenty for Disney to have made films based off of, two per year, for at least a couple decades.

    ...Or are you going to try and tell me that the Thrawn Trilogy, for example, couldn't have been a fantastic cinematic experience?

    Corporations never like to do this, but they COULD just admit they were wrong and allow select pieces into canon from the EU. Last I checked, United States federal law does not exclude this from happening. No reason they can't just cherry-pick from the EU.


    The Thrawn Trilogy would have been impossible from an age standpoint. It took place only 5 years after Return of the Jedi. As for the old EU, for every Thrawn Trilogy there is a Corellian Trilogy, or worse yet, The Crystal Star.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:21 pm
  • Maulbert wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:The old EU was trash. The farther they stay away from that the better. Same with midichlorians.

    Much of the EU was trash. There are a few dozen very good books in it, though. Plenty for Disney to have made films based off of, two per year, for at least a couple decades.

    ...Or are you going to try and tell me that the Thrawn Trilogy, for example, couldn't have been a fantastic cinematic experience?

    Corporations never like to do this, but they COULD just admit they were wrong and allow select pieces into canon from the EU. Last I checked, United States federal law does not exclude this from happening. No reason they can't just cherry-pick from the EU.


    The Thrawn Trilogy would have been impossible from an age standpoint. It took place only 5 years after Return of the Jedi. As for the old EU, for every Thrawn Trilogy there is a Corellian Trilogy, or worse yet, The Crystal Star.


    Agreed, Maulbert. Thrawn doesn't work unless you recast. I'd much prefer they leave Thrawn to the animated series, or take him in a different route in a TV show or anthology film.... which would likely require recasting or leaving main SW characters out of the stories completely.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:36 am
  • sc85sis wrote:
    Spin Doctor wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    HawkGA wrote:
    The Last Jedi sucked. The Solo movie was really good. I'm sad it's not doing well at the box office as that does not bode well for future films in this particular series. But it was really good..


    The Last Jedi is directly responsible for the tepid response to Solo. It pissed off most hardcore Star Wars fans, to the point to where they don't want to get burned again.

    Disney has painted themselves into a corner with the Star wars franchise. The refuse to let writers and directors take the franchise in an edgier more bold direction, so it's not only leaving true fans feeling fatigued and bummed out with how safe and vanilla the series and side projects are.............they're also not attracting any new fans to the franchise.

    I get that they have a vision for how episodes 7-9 are to go (even though it's not really working), but to protect their precious Disney brand over allowing some more exciting direction for the side projects is pretty damn lame for this old Star Wars fan.

    I disagree with the fact that they have a vision for Star Wars. I think that where we are right now at this point in time, is because the Star Wars brand has no direction. Their goal is to emulate Marvel, but the thing with Marvel is they are using already established source material. They are keeping pretty close to the comic books from what I hear, They are also tying every movie together into an overarching universe. Star Wars had quite a bit of material with the extended universe but the folks at Disney set it on fire, and let it burn.

    The brand underneath Kathleen Kennedy has been managed very poorly. She had her name tied to all of the biggest projects that Lucas Film ever undertook. The thing that Disney has seemed to overlook is that her role was handling money, nothing to do with creative direction. We are seeing the result right here. Her main goal is to pump out movies as quick as possible, and with little regard for continuity, or story. Her handling of the directors has also been a nightmare to say the least. J.J Abrams laid out an outline for all three of the movies, the thing is he wasn't going to be the director for the second one -- he had something else going on. The guy that came in completely blew up his scripts, and outlines then completely rewrote the Last Jedi. This is why the film seemed so jarring compared to the force awakens. While the Force Awakens was not that great in my opinion, at least it captured the original feel of the series.

    This Last Jedi was what they call a cluster f---. It was a hastily thrown together story. It relied on deus ex machina style plot devices, and constant surprise to keep viewers interested. It was a train wreck of grandiose ideas and questionable plot lines. They tried to make the whole film a "Luke I am your father moment". The guy who did this script really should be ashamed of himself. This movie seemed like a 6th graders fan fiction, but I bet you a 6th graders fan fiction would be more coherent than this movie.

    In Solo we faced a similar director issue. Kathleen Kennedy hired the two directors behind "cloudy with a chance of meat balls". These guys were great at comedy, and ad lib style scripts, but a space opera like Star Wars was completely out of their realm of expertise. They said that they were under the impression that they were hired to direct a comedy when they originally shot the film. The film was shot, and they allowed ad lib, and random things to just happen, which was their MO, Kathleen Kennedy really should have taken that into consideration. Three weeks before the movie was due to be put into editing the two directors, and Kennedy decided to part ways. A director that close friends, and worked with Lucas on numerous occasions was brought in. The movie had veered so far off course that he had to completely re-shoot every scene in only three weeks. He called every single actor, and actress back in, some were not able to come back due to work on other movies. They were edited out of the movie. Every scene was then re-shot once again.

    The last thing I want to touch on is the over politicization of the Star Wars franchise. People look to films such as Star Wars as an escape from reality. A place to transport you to a new world, a new universe. I'm not going to go into much here, because politics is frowned upon in this forum. A good example of this is J.J Abrams coming out and saying that if you don't like this new Star Wars you're a bigot. No J.J we don't like the new Star Wars franchise because it is genuinely bad. Female leads didn't stop wonder woman from selling well, the gay love story of Brokeback mountain didn't stop people from shelling out money to watch that film in droves. Just recently Black Panther set records, and became one of the best selling movies of all time. Now that Star Wars is a flaming dumpster fire the directors, and Kathleen Kennedy are now blaming the fans. Now we're getting calls for the boycot of the new Star Wars. These people are insulting diehard fans, the people that go to the movie 6-7 times, the people that buy all the merchandise, and they wonder "why aren't the tickets selling?" It must be because we have a strong female lead, or we turned Lando into a fringe sexual identity, they are biggots!

    NO, people don't like Star Wars because your lead character is a Mary Sue. With a few days of training she was able to best a Jedi master. With no training she was able to beat a guy that was supposed to be gifted in the force, and had a whole life of Jedi training behind him. There is no heroes journey as I said before. We don't get to see Rey grow, we don't get to see the struggles, and journey of self discovery. She touches a light saber once and she is able to beat a man that was able to go toe to toe with Luke when he tried to kill him. We are teased that maybe she was a member of the school. When we learn that she is a nobody, it kind of makes the fact that she can use the force without any training asinine. More on this point, a little kid on the Casino planet uses the Force without any training as well. Not even Anakin, who supposedly was one of the most gifted force users wasn't able to do that. The whole story has taken place over a few months.

    We also don't like the new Star Wars because the plot is contrived. The purple haired ladies plan was idiotic, and the whole warp drive mechanics completely contradicted everything that the story had put into place in the story before hand. The last Jedi completely ignored set rules of the universe, it was like somebody vomited on a piece of paper and said HERE YA GO, HERE IS YOUR STORY, ENJOY. When fans call Kennedy and company on it, they insult them. This is why Star Wars is a burning dumpster fire right now. These people are insulting our intelligence, and resulting to name calling to deflect blame for their inability to best an average 6th graders fan fiction. These new Star Wars films are films that nobody asked for. Lucas Film needs to be purged of these idiots, and I believe they will be gone if the new Star Wars movie tanks. Disney will only put up with these kind of numbers for so long. They took one of the most valuable franchises and are driving it into the ground. It is hard to believe that Marvel and Star Wars exist under the same parent company. Sorry my post got a bit ranty, I was just floored by J.J Abrams, and Kennedy's remarks.


    I think stuff like this is why J.J. made that comment.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainmen ... story.html

    I think the Kelly Marie Tran trolling is awful. I truly don't understand why people were trolling her. If I got a chance to take a major role in Star Wars you better believe that I would take it in a heart beat. That is millions of dollars, and a chance to better your future. She didn't write the character, nor did she write the script. She did a good job given how one dimensional the character was.

    Most of the Star Wars fans that I see in real life tend to have more of a critique on the story, and development of the characters. I don't think he was just defending Kelly Marie Tran, it was a broad sweeping statement, it seemed more pointed towards criticisms of Rey's character in particular. I don't think these comments do him, or the franchise good. It genuinely has some major flaws. We have to remember, Rey was originally his character design after all, though I think the main issue in her development was Rian. Rian had a chance to give Rey an interesting backstory. For example, I think many of the criticisms of her being a Mary Sue could have had an easy, lay up of an explanation. If she were a member of the Jedi order that Luke was trying to establish, and last survivor of Kylo's rampage -- I think it would be great way to explain her powers. Luke erases her memory with a Jedi mind trick, and drops her on Jakku with an erased memory, and no idea as to who she was, or where she came from. This seemed to be something that J.J was setting up, then we got that crazy explanation of "you're a nobody" from Rian.

    Now, to be fair I think this still could be a possibility. Maybe they're going to expand upon that "you're a nobody" statement from Kylo. That was a pretty open ended explanation, and I'm going to be interested to see if J.J does anything, or goes anywhere with it. J.J after all really likes to add twists, and surprises into stories. As crazy the Last Jedi was the "I am your father" moment of this franchise could be coming in this movie. Rey is still a blank slate in my opinion.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:33 am
  • Spin Doctor wrote:I think the Kelly Marie Tran trolling is awful. I truly don't understand why people were trolling her. If I got a chance to take a major role in Star Wars you better believe that I would take it in a heart beat. That is millions of dollars, and a chance to better your future. She didn't write the character, nor did she write the script. She did a good job given how one dimensional the character was.


    I think Tran unfortunately took the brunt of Star Wars fans being pissed by the Disney-fication of the movies, with all these Mouskateer looking casting decisions, like Tran.

    I have no issue with Tran as an actor, but her entire story arc with the stupid weird Finn relationship was the dumbest part of an already pretty dumb movie.

    So no, it's not OK to attack her personally on social media, that's terrible. But I certainly understand the hate if we're looking at her character and story in The Last Jedi.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:56 am
  • Her character and story arc sucked. Why on Earth anybody would blame the actress for that, I have no idea. That's on the writer and/or director.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:19 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:The Thrawn trilogy was pretty good. The first problem is, like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I don't want to see rehashed stories

    Almost everything you have ever seen on TV and in theaters throughout your entire life has been a rehashed story, including much of what you think is original.

    You just crapped on the EU because...it's filled with a bunch of original content that is very "meh"? Well, you can apply that same argument to the new Star Wars films to a certain extent. I'd much rather see a well-done Thrawn trilogy than most of what has been released thus far under Disney.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:45 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:The Thrawn trilogy was pretty good. The first problem is, like I mentioned earlier in the thread, I don't want to see rehashed stories

    Almost everything you have ever seen on TV and in theaters throughout your entire life has been a rehashed story, including much of what you think is original.

    You just crapped on the EU because...it's filled with a bunch of original content that is very "meh"? Well, you can apply that same argument to the new Star Wars films to a certain extent. I'd much rather see a well-done Thrawn trilogy than most of what has been released thus far under Disney.


    Who are you quoting? I didn't say "meh" I said "trash". Also, please mansplain to me further where all the colourful stories come from and how they end up in the picture box in my living room.

    And yes, some people love the old EU and hate the new movies, while I hate most of the old EU and love the new movies. So that's why so far I'm happy about how things have gone and they're crying like little biiiatches about it. I'll chalk that up as a win.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:10 pm
  • Based on the post I partially quoted, you needed the mansplaining, lol. Not wanting anything from the EU over what we've gotten from Disney because it's not original?!...put down the crack pipe, IMO. :)
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:00 pm
  • Don't make illusory correlations. I like the new movies and I don't want old EU stories made into movies, but those are separate things. They may at some point adapt an old story into a movie and I might thoroughly enjoy it. I'm just happy they haven't gone that route yet because I'm not particularly interested in it. The idea of that bothering you makes me absolutely giddy so by all means, keep it coming.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:13 pm
  • Thinking it ridiculous does not equal bothering me, but whatever floats your boat.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:38 pm
  • :salute:
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:50 pm
  • There was this cartoon I saw the other day.

    An emaciated cow with dried up udders.... shaking in a milking booth. It had a "Star Wars" collar around its neck.

    Around the corner, here comes Mickey Mouse with armfuls of milking buckets.


    I tried to find the cartoon to post here, but when I googled "Disney milking" -- I got a bunch of pictures that made me want to poke out my mind's eye.

    Apparently Kim Possible and Princess Jasmine cartoon lactation porn is actually a thing.... :pukeface:
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:07 pm
  • The_Z_Man wrote:There was this cartoon I saw the other day.

    An emaciated cow with dried up udders.... shaking in a milking booth. It had a "Star Wars" collar around its neck.

    Around the corner, here comes Mickey Mouse with armfuls of milking buckets.

    May need to Photoshop Zeb into it, drinking straight from the udders. ;)

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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:37 pm
  • One thing I do have to give Solo credit for was the fact that it was a low stakes movie. No Good vs. Evil, no galaxy hanging in the balance, not even a Death Star name check. If standalone Star Wars films are ever going to succeed, they're going to need to do something different. Whether you liked it or not, Solo tried something different with the story, at least.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:19 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:May need to Photoshop Zeb into it, drinking straight from the udders. ;)



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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:19 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:May need to Photoshop Zeb into it, drinking straight from the udders. ;)



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    Needs more Cowbell...... :stirthepot:
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:38 pm
  • http://collider.com/star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold/#images

    It may be a while before we see any more movies like Solo: A Star Wars Story out of Lucasfilm. Sources with knowledge of the situation tell Collider that Lucasfilm has decided to put plans for more A Star Wars Story spinoff movies on hold, instead opting to focus their attention on Star Wars: Episode IX and what the next trilogy of Star Wars films will be after that film. Sources tell us that the previously rumored Obi-Wan movie was in active development, but those who were working on the film are no longer involved. It was recently reported that Logan filmmaker James Mangold was in early talks to write and direct the Boba Fett film, but that was before Solo’s release.


    I think this is the right move. It's very important for them to try to get the fan base back on their side. I was excited to see if and what they would do with the whole Obi-Wan/Boba Fett/Darth Maul/Enfys Nest stuff but I'm ok with them taking a step back and reevaluating their strategy. Less can definitely be more and though I've liked what we've seen from them so far I do think they can do better. So hopefully that's where this, if true, leads us to: better.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:43 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:http://collider.com/star-wars-spinoffs-on-hold/#images

    It may be a while before we see any more movies like Solo: A Star Wars Story out of Lucasfilm. Sources with knowledge of the situation tell Collider that Lucasfilm has decided to put plans for more A Star Wars Story spinoff movies on hold, instead opting to focus their attention on Star Wars: Episode IX and what the next trilogy of Star Wars films will be after that film. Sources tell us that the previously rumored Obi-Wan movie was in active development, but those who were working on the film are no longer involved. It was recently reported that Logan filmmaker James Mangold was in early talks to write and direct the Boba Fett film, but that was before Solo’s release.


    I think this is the right move. It's very important for them to try to get the fan base back on their side. I was excited to see if and what they would do with the whole Obi-Wan/Boba Fett/Darth Maul/Enfys Nest stuff but I'm ok with them taking a step back and reevaluating their strategy. Less can definitely be more and though I've liked what we've seen from them so far I do think they can do better. So hopefully that's where this, if true, leads us to: better.


    I'm not against expanding on known characters, but right now, Star Wars needs a fresh approach. The Rian Johnson Trilogy and Benioff/Weiss projects are still greenlit. I'm curious to see where they go. I personally think the KoTOR era is the obvious choice.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:12 pm
  • Not a huge Old Republic fan. Never been really big into the idea that there were hundreds or thousands of Jedi running around fighting massive Sith armies or whatever. I get why people are into that but it just doesn't really interest me. Also kind of doesn't really make sense that this happened for thousands of years and then we get Order 66 and twenty years later it's a distant memory that it seems few remember as actual history. Just another thing IMO that George Lucas came up with that sounds really cool in concept but in execution doesn't really translate. Makes for much better video games than feature films, IMO. I get that the word "Wars" is in the title, but I prefer the war as a backdrop to the stories, not necessarily the main part of the story itself. Probably the reason why I never really got into RoTS or The Clone Wars as much as others did.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:36 pm
  • Just how bad has it gotten?

    Bob Iger recently called a Disney meeting and offered KK's job to anyone who wanted it... like a dozen people... Even JJ Abrams could have been completely in charge of Star Wars.

    They all turned it down!

    KK crapped the bed to such an extent that nobody wants to get in it now.

    TLJ ruined the franchise.

    I've said this from the beginning.

    The Last Jedi = Alien 3 = Highlander 2

    A movie so damned awful, that it retroactively destroys all that came before, so that the only way to enjoy the movies is to pretend that that one thing doesn't exist, and the ONLY way to do that is to disregard it and everything that comes after... which means that nothing that comes after will capture as much interest from fans. Solo is just the beginning, soon you will be getting the equivalent to Alien vs. Predator... in other words, it will be a B grade franchise in the future because you can't spend huge money on movies that have no chance of performing well.

    It's like this -- people will rent Alien and Aliens, and then just stop... no matter how hard anyone works to "fix" the franchise (after all Prometheus and the sequel were not bad movies) the fact is, that Alien 3 despoiled the franchise and sewed the ground with salt... the soil is no longer fertile enough for good things to grow there, because there is really no way to "de-canonize" that shitshow. Alien is no longer a premium franchise and never will be again.

    The Last Jedi has done the same thing. The biggest killer is the way it hit the casual Star Wars fan, like my wife... she laughed at it. "This is stupid and boring." and that's it... she couldn't name the specific points that made her mad, she just recognized it for the bad movie it was, and so, as casually as she came into it, she's done with Star Wars.


    When something like that sticks in people's minds it only gets worse with age.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:54 pm
  • The_Z_Man wrote:When something like that sticks in people's minds it only gets worse with age.


    Maybe.

    I don't have quite the dire hopeless feelings as you do Z Man towards the Star Wars franchise.

    Yes long running franchises tend to get worse with age............but look what 20th Century Fox did with the Alien franchise. They brought Ridley Scott back on board and made a couple good movies with Prometheus and Covenant.

    But it WILL take Disney giving up control to a edgier riskier director who maybe wants to deviate from the generic safe vanilla tone and direction the franchise is currently in. Because any well know great director will want total control.

    So maybe it wasn't a good thing that Disney bought the franchise, because they're not known for doing this. They want competent direction and writing, but safe as to not tarnish they're beloved brand....................and IMO that's not what hardcore and casual sci-fi fans want.

    They want reverence to the canon, but more than that they want something interesting and exciting.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:06 pm
  • It's an impossible task. They are literally never going to make movies that can live up to the original trilogy and like a quarter of the fan base is unwilling to accept anything that falls short, with another quarter of them who are going to hate anything that isn't a direct adaptation of old EU stories or video games.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:26 pm
  • Star Wars isn't Marvel. There isn't endless beloved back story to base these movies on and a massive fan base that is just happy to finally see these stories made into quality movies. The only existing source material is an old expanded universe that a) is essentially (mostly) shitty fan fiction and b) would require a complete re-cast of the original characters that a whole nother 25% or more of the fan base will never accept.

    This is a franchise with an origin that set the bar so impossibly high with a fan base so vast in desires and expectations that there is just literally no possibility of them ever making everybody happy. LucasFilm's best bet is to simply forget about all of us picky old fans and to go forward making movies for the current 6-12 year olds who have no expectations or requirements other than movies that are fun to watch.
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Re: Solo (Spoilers) + Star Wars talk
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:26 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:It's an impossible task. They are literally never going to make movies that can live up to the original trilogy and like a quarter of the fan base is unwilling to accept anything that falls short, with another quarter of them who are going to hate anything that isn't a direct adaptation of old EU stories or video games.


    Of course there's always going to be a vocal minority of hardcore fans that won't ever be satisfied.

    But there's still plenty of old school fans, as well as millions and millions of just casual sci-fi fans that would embrace Star Wars if it was taken in a more visionary, darker toned and more riskier direction.

    Again, is Disney willing to take that sort of chance? I doubt it, but IMO that's what they have to try to do, or else yes it'll just die off into obscurity, or worse.................continue to suck and torture us with mediocre to terrible movies.
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