Mass Shootings

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Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:54 pm
  • I don't even know what to think anymore. I know that my heart hurts. I know that I am in complete misery with the state of affairs in this world these days. Anger is now being channeled through the barrel of a gun more than any other time in non-war history. I don't want to hear about politics. I just want this bullshit to STOP.
    Aros
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:24 pm
  • We live in a messed up world and it's only getting worse unfortunately. With what kids see on tv, video games, the internet, social media, etc. what do we expect. Add in the lack of parenting and people in general just being assholes it's not good. Sad state of affairs and not sure what the answer is but hopefully we can find away to help people that feel like this is the only way.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:32 pm
  • getnasty wrote:We live in a messed up world and it's only getting worse unfortunately. With what kids see on tv, video games, the internet, social media, etc. what do we expect. Add in the lack of parenting and people in general just being assholes it's not good. Sad state of affairs and not sure what the answer is but hopefully we can find away to help people that feel like this is the only way.


    Every other first world country has these things too. Somehow we're the only dummies that can't figure out how to fix or curb it.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:34 pm
  • Yes that begs the question, why does the USA have the highest rate of mass shootings more than any other country on the planet?!?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:37 pm
  • Aros wrote:Yes that begs the question, why does the USA have the highest rate of mass shootings more than any other country on the planet?!?


    This is an impossible question to answer without getting political.

    Here's all I'll say about this issue, cause I get fired up. There should be NOTHING off the table when it comes to saving our citizens lives, especially kids getting slaughtered in schools.

    What can and should we be doing? Everything, that's what.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:07 pm
  • It fires me up too..I blame a few things but it starts with the parents first.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:15 pm
  • Amen brother!

    What's the solution? Arming every single citizen? Hardly, although it sure sounds damn good.

    I am heartbroken over these senseless killings. So many innocent lives taken over somebody who can't get a grip on their anger and hatred. Should it be interesting to me that most are 20 something white males? Honestly I am not sure what that means. The point is, I don't care WHO you are. Black, white, green, yellow...To kill innocent people because of your twisted convictions is just SICK.

    I am seriously considering getting a concealed weapons permit. I hope that I never have to use it but I will tell you what...

    If I have the opportunity, I won't even flinch.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:22 pm


  • Only one of them has 300+ million guns on the streets.
    Guess which one?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:25 pm
  • Well there you have it.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:13 pm
  • I will start off my post saying that I come from a mixed race family, grew up in White Center and that I am in favor of the 2nd amendment. I've grown up around guns and began shooting when I was just old enough to ride my own bike. What's crazy to me these days is the simple disregard for human life. Guns have been around forever, but yet only have become a tool for mass killers recently. Hell back in North Dakota I remember going back for a family reunion and seeing damn near every truck had a shotgun in the back window and almost every house had some mounted on the wall totally unsecured. Zero mass shootings, yet guns were much more available then than they are now.

    Make gun crimes have stricter penalties. I'm tired of hearing about kids shooting other kids, or even shooting at kids and not hitting anyone and getting a slap on the wrist. if you shoot or shoot at someone during a crime, it should be an automatic 10+ years in prison.

    Make background checks include digging into any diagnosed mental illnesses in the past. Too often we see that these shooters don't have a criminal history, but in fact have been placed on anti-psychotic meds but due to HIPPA laws that cannot be released.

    If you are going to buy a firearm (pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc) training should be a must.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:24 pm
  • 2_0_6 wrote:I will start off my post saying that I come from a mixed race family, grew up in White Center and that I am in favor of the 2nd amendment. I've grown up around guns and began shooting when I was just old enough to ride my own bike. What's crazy to me these days is the simple disregard for human life. Guns have been around forever, hell back in North Dakota I remember going back for a family reunion and seeing damn near every truck had a shotgun in the back window and almost every house had some mounted on the wall totally unsecured. Zero mass shootings, yet guns were much more available then than they are now.

    Make gun crimes have stricter penalties. I'm tired of hearing about kids shooting other kids, or even shooting at kids and not hitting anyone and getting a slap on the wrist. if you shoot or shoot at someone during a crime, it should be an automatic 10+ years in prison.

    Make background checks include digging into any diagnosed mental illnesses in the past. Too often we see that these shooters don't have a criminal history, but in fact have been placed on anti-psychotic meds but due to HIPPA laws that cannot be released.

    If you are going to buy a firearm (pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc) training should be a must.


    There are many countries we could model for sensible gun laws.......Canada, Australia, Japan to name a few. All do what you've listed out here.

    But as long as this issue is politicized and our politicians are in the pockets of very powerful lobbies (on both sides), we'll never move towards any meaningful agreement on what just makes sense.

    Normally I'm an optimist, but on this issue I couldn't be more of a pessimist. If the hundreds of mass shootings that happen every year hasn't been enough of a wake up call for change, there's no hope.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:30 pm
  • I agree that we need much more tighter reigns on the gun purchase process. It won't solve all the problems (if a psycho wants to get their hands on a gun, they absolutely can on the black market) but it won't hurt. It SHOULDN'T BE EASY TO BUY A GUN IN THIS DAY AND AGE!!!

    Sorry, but it should be a thorough process to your point. Background checks including mental evaluation/history.

    I understand that by itself doesn't even begin to offer a solution to the mass shooting trend we have seen in the past 15 years or so. I don't think there is any easy solution. Political, spiritual, doesn't much matter. A fundamental change needs to occur on the collective cellular level of our species and I just don't see that happening in my life time. These kids look at violence as their solution to get their messaging out. Race or some other issue that has them all fired up to commit such hanus crimes.

    Not even a strong family unit guarantees anything. We have all heard of people that commit terrible crimes where they came from a good family. There is just no simple answer and that's what is so damn frustrating!!
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:34 pm
  • At the end of the day a gun is simply a tool, but a dangerous one at that if it falls into the wrong hands. My circle of friends consist of a mix between current former military, current/former LEO's and a few average Joe's mixed in. Literally all of us are in agreement that something needs to be done, but placing an all out ban on semi auto guns is not the answer. Training, permits, 10 day waiting times, stiffer gun penalties would be a great starting point.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:46 pm
  • Mental Health and Disqualifying Mental Health Records

    Mental Health problems can cover a broad range of disorders, but the common characteristics are that they all affect the affected person’s personality, thought processes, mood, social interactions, and behaviors. Mental Health disorders can be difficult to diagnose by medical professionals, unlike physical illnesses clearly, but can have very significant effects when associated with a firearm. Certainly, many people have Mental Health CONCERNS from time to time, and it can be difficult for even us lay folks to differentiate from mental health illnesses, like anxiety disorders, clinical depression, bipolar disorders, schizophrenia, and violent and addictive behaviors. Most of us worry and have usual anxieties at times. This affects how we handle stress, relate to others, and make choices and decisions. Many of us may not recognize and understand the extreme symptoms, like very confused thinking, extreme irritability, extreme highs and lows, excessive worries and anxieties, strong feelings of anger, suicidal thoughts, and inability to cope with daily problems and activities. We do not put “2 and 2” together and sometimes inadvertently let behaviors and situations “slide,” without the necessary attention.

    I believe that we need to focus on those with documented mental health DISORDER problems that disqualify them from owning and using a firearm. Past shooting tragedies have strongly indicated that somewhere in the shooters histories, there were documented mental health disorder problems, with some spending time in mental institutions or treatment centers. This is very key need-to-know information and, of course, must be professionally recognized, solidly verified, and appropriately acted upon. There was an effort to improve NICS from 2013-2016, and the number of disqualifying Mental Health records submitted to NICS increased by 170% to about 4.5 million. So there have been improvements, but more still need to be made. I believe this is a top priority: Identifying (and treating) those with genuinely, documented and disqualifying mental health problems, so we can prevent prohibited people from gaining access to firearms. One of the Form 4473 questions asks “Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?” But, again, how the individual truthfully responds is needed.


    https://www.usacarry.com/background-che ... ms-issues/
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:21 pm
  • We need prayer in video games. Only way to fix it.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:51 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    getnasty wrote:We live in a messed up world and it's only getting worse unfortunately. With what kids see on tv, video games, the internet, social media, etc. what do we expect. Add in the lack of parenting and people in general just being assholes it's not good. Sad state of affairs and not sure what the answer is but hopefully we can find away to help people that feel like this is the only way.


    Every other first world country has these things too. Somehow we're the only dummies that can't figure out how to fix or curb it.

    So much this. I can’t add anymore without getting political.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:25 am
  • Can't really speak my mind on this due to the related politics.

    I just can't imagine valuing the ownership of firearms more than the innocent lives of our citizens, let alone children. It's absolutely insane.

    And I'm not anti-2A. I'm not saying ban all guns, types of guns, etc., but I do think we need serious reformation.1) how people buy guns 2) yearly inspection/licensing 3) types of ammunication/magazine/capacity, etc.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:59 am
  • Isn't all this mindless violence on the part of what used to be a fairly orderly and non-violent public just exactly what Tipper Gore was warning us would happen from violent video games, back in the day?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:12 pm
  • GeekHawk wrote:Isn't all this mindless violence on the part of what used to be a fairly orderly and non-violent public just exactly what Tipper Gore was warning us would happen from violent video games, back in the day?


    No, cause as I pointed out just about every first world country has similar factors involved in their society that we like to blame for gun violence. Mental illness, suicide, lack of morality, and the most tired of all tropes, the dreaded video game violence.

    Image


    It's guns, too many guns, too much freedom with guns, not enough restrictions with guns, not enough background checking, not enough hoops to jump through to prove you're an acceptable gun owner, including things like mental evaluations or some sort of system that continues to verify said stability and competency.

    Very few to none of these mass shootings were and are still being carried out the criminals that everyone said are going to have all the guns if we restrict gun ownership. These are unstable individuals that freely purchased their guns, and some purchased entire arsenals.

    It's insanity to me. You wanna protect your family? Fine, jump through all the hoops and here's your handgun. You wanna hunt? Fine, jump through all the hoops and here's your hunting rifle?

    You wanna own 50 AK-47's, a bazooka, 100,000 rounds of ammunition, WTH are we doing! Jesus H. Christ we're stupid.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:06 pm
  • I hunt with a semi auto AR10 chambered in .308, as well do many many other hunters. Oh an AK's are fun to shoot, any of you are welcome to join me the next time at the range.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:11 pm
  • This society/country is addicted to violence. Art reflects life............


    Image
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:39 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:Isn't all this mindless violence on the part of what used to be a fairly orderly and non-violent public just exactly what Tipper Gore was warning us would happen from violent video games, back in the day?


    No, cause as I pointed out just about every first world country has similar factors involved in their society that we like to blame for gun violence. Mental illness, suicide, lack of morality, and the most tired of all tropes, the dreaded video game violence.

    Image


    It's guns, too many guns, too much freedom with guns, not enough restrictions with guns, not enough background checking, not enough hoops to jump through to prove you're an acceptable gun owner, including things like mental evaluations or some sort of system that continues to verify said stability and competency.

    Very few to none of these mass shootings were and are still being carried out the criminals that everyone said are going to have all the guns if we restrict gun ownership. These are unstable individuals that freely purchased their guns, and some purchased entire arsenals.

    It's insanity to me. You wanna protect your family? Fine, jump through all the hoops and here's your handgun. You wanna hunt? Fine, jump through all the hoops and here's your hunting rifle?

    You wanna own 50 AK-47's, a bazooka, 100,000 rounds of ammunition, WTH are we doing! Jesus H. Christ we're stupid.


    Actually, guns have never been harder to get than right now. You used to be able to buy them mail-order from Sears, no problems and no questions asked. I bought my first hunting rifle (a surplus pre-WWII Czech military 8mm Mauser) at the Tacoma B&I when I was in junior high school. No ID, no hassles, no nothing. I took the military stock off and took it to school to sporterize in Woodshop, got hardly a second glance walking through the hallway at school with rifle parts. We keep making it harder to get guns, and yet this keeps happening. It isn't working, and is not the correct answer or else it would be working.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:48 pm
  • GeekHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:Isn't all this mindless violence on the part of what used to be a fairly orderly and non-violent public just exactly what Tipper Gore was warning us would happen from violent video games, back in the day?


    No, cause as I pointed out just about every first world country has similar factors involved in their society that we like to blame for gun violence. Mental illness, suicide, lack of morality, and the most tired of all tropes, the dreaded video game violence.

    Image


    It's guns, too many guns, too much freedom with guns, not enough restrictions with guns, not enough background checking, not enough hoops to jump through to prove you're an acceptable gun owner, including things like mental evaluations or some sort of system that continues to verify said stability and competency.

    Very few to none of these mass shootings were and are still being carried out the criminals that everyone said are going to have all the guns if we restrict gun ownership. These are unstable individuals that freely purchased their guns, and some purchased entire arsenals.

    It's insanity to me. You wanna protect your family? Fine, jump through all the hoops and here's your handgun. You wanna hunt? Fine, jump through all the hoops and here's your hunting rifle?

    You wanna own 50 AK-47's, a bazooka, 100,000 rounds of ammunition, WTH are we doing! Jesus H. Christ we're stupid.


    Actually, guns have never been harder to get than right now. You used to be able to buy them mail-order from Sears, no problems and no questions asked. I bought my first hunting rifle (a surplus pre-WWII Czech military 8mm Mauser) at the Tacoma B&I when I was in junior high school. No ID, no hassles, no nothing. I took the military stock off and took it to school to sporterize in Woodshop, got hardly a second glance walking through the hallway at school with rifle parts. We keep making it harder to get guns, and yet this keeps happening. It isn't working, and is not the correct answer or else it would be working.


    Tacoma B&I, man my Uncle talks about that place to this day. Says he used to get crazy deals there all the time.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:59 pm
  • GeekHawk wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    GeekHawk wrote:Isn't all this mindless violence on the part of what used to be a fairly orderly and non-violent public just exactly what Tipper Gore was warning us would happen from violent video games, back in the day?


    No, cause as I pointed out just about every first world country has similar factors involved in their society that we like to blame for gun violence. Mental illness, suicide, lack of morality, and the most tired of all tropes, the dreaded video game violence.

    Image


    It's guns, too many guns, too much freedom with guns, not enough restrictions with guns, not enough background checking, not enough hoops to jump through to prove you're an acceptable gun owner, including things like mental evaluations or some sort of system that continues to verify said stability and competency.

    Very few to none of these mass shootings were and are still being carried out the criminals that everyone said are going to have all the guns if we restrict gun ownership. These are unstable individuals that freely purchased their guns, and some purchased entire arsenals.

    It's insanity to me. You wanna protect your family? Fine, jump through all the hoops and here's your handgun. You wanna hunt? Fine, jump through all the hoops and here's your hunting rifle?

    You wanna own 50 AK-47's, a bazooka, 100,000 rounds of ammunition, WTH are we doing! Jesus H. Christ we're stupid.


    Actually, guns have never been harder to get than right now. You used to be able to buy them mail-order from Sears, no problems and no questions asked. I bought my first hunting rifle (a surplus pre-WWII Czech military 8mm Mauser) at the Tacoma B&I when I was in junior high school. No ID, no hassles, no nothing. I took the military stock off and took it to school to sporterize in Woodshop, got hardly a second glance walking through the hallway at school with rifle parts. We keep making it harder to get guns, and yet this keeps happening. It isn't working, and is not the correct answer or else it would be working.


    What have we done to make it harder to get guns? There hasn't been any meaningful gun legislation since the Brady Act in the 80's......and congress let the Assault Weapon ban expire in 2004.

    In fact, most of the recent gun law changes has made it harder to hold gun manufacturers liable. Wow, that's some hard hitting gun reform.

    https://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws ... -firearms/

    This is the part of this discussion that drives me crazy. Everyone just wants to defend the 2nd Amendment, and doesn't offer anything constructive to the conversation on how to address an obvious serious problem in our country. Nope, just blame video games. Yeah, that's the ticket.

    Our citizens and kids are dying at an insanely rapid rate, there should literally be nothing off the table to help fix the problem. Just more hopes, prayers and deep reflection and hey I use an AK to hunt, so there!......then it's on to the next mass murder like it's just part of our daily lives we're so desensitized to it.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:23 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Our citizens and kids are dying at an insanely rapid rate, there should literally be nothing off the table to help fix the problem. Just more hopes, prayers and deep reflection and hey I use an AK to hunt, so there!......then it's on to the next mass murder like it's just part of our daily lives we're so desensitized to it.


    Amen brother. PREACH! The world has gone nuts and nobody seems motivated to effect real change. Just a ton of political posturing and FIPS (shout out to PE).

    Sickening.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:45 pm
  • Whether you love or hate the second amendment, it will never go away. However I do see the AWB going back into effect like it did in 1994. Sure it stopped the over the counter sale of any new Semi auto's, but what did it also do? Drove the legal black market (pre ban) prices up like crazy.. If you owned them when it went into effect, they were grandfathered to you.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:36 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Aros wrote:Yes that begs the question, why does the USA have the highest rate of mass shootings more than any other country on the planet?!?


    This is an impossible question to answer without getting political.

    Here's all I'll say about this issue, cause I get fired up. There should be NOTHING off the table when it comes to saving our citizens lives, especially kids getting slaughtered in schools.

    What can and should we be doing? Everything, that's what.


    Guns laws? Clinton passed it in 94, ended in 08, mass shootings gone way up since then. Can't kill your entire graduating class with a knife.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:32 am
  • mistaowen wrote: Can't kill your entire graduating class with a knife.


    Which gets to my point. Why do some people want to kill their entire graduating class these days? What's different about society, about upbringing, about social norms, about mental health, about personal interactions in the last, say, 40 years starting with the 80s?

    We need to do a real engineering-style root-cause analysis here. This is like if there's a railroad track across a walkway and people keep tripping over it and breaking their legs. One side demands the tracks be removed for public safety, the other side refuses because the tracks are required to let trains have access and it's the injured people's fault for not paying attention when they walk. Neither side can see any logic or reason in the other side's arguments. Meanwhile, an actual root cause analysis shows that people are tripping after dark and the real reason is because there needs to be a street light installed so people can see the track.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:02 am
  • GeekHawk wrote:
    mistaowen wrote: Can't kill your entire graduating class with a knife.


    Which gets to my point. Why do some people want to kill their entire graduating class these days? What's different about society, about upbringing, about social norms, about mental health, about personal interactions in the last, say, 40 years starting with the 80s?

    We need to do a real engineering-style root-cause analysis here. This is like if there's a railroad track across a walkway and people keep tripping over it and breaking their legs. One side demands the tracks be removed for public safety, the other side refuses because the tracks are required to let trains have access and it's the injured people's fault for not paying attention when they walk. Neither side can see any logic or reason in the other side's arguments. Meanwhile, an actual root cause analysis shows that people are tripping after dark and the real reason is because there needs to be a street light installed so people can see the track.


    :irishdrinkers:
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:17 am
  • GeekHawk wrote:
    mistaowen wrote: Can't kill your entire graduating class with a knife.


    Which gets to my point. Why do some people want to kill their entire graduating class these days? What's different about society, about upbringing, about social norms, about mental health, about personal interactions in the last, say, 40 years starting with the 80s?

    We need to do a real engineering-style root-cause analysis here. This is like if there's a railroad track across a walkway and people keep tripping over it and breaking their legs. One side demands the tracks be removed for public safety, the other side refuses because the tracks are required to let trains have access and it's the injured people's fault for not paying attention when they walk. Neither side can see any logic or reason in the other side's arguments. Meanwhile, an actual root cause analysis shows that people are tripping after dark and the real reason is because there needs to be a street light installed so people can see the track.


    Do everything. Why are you and others only interested in the tangential things, and not the glaring ONE thing.

    For the 456,441 time, EVERY society and country is dealing with the issues you're talking about, but we're the only society that can't figure it out.......and there's only one outlier difference as to why we experience more mass shootings than these other societies. Guns.

    Stricter background checks. More training. More mandatory safety. More mental evaluations. More counseling. Get high capacity guns out of the hands of civilians. Get the NRA out of the back pockets of our politicians that stall meaningful gun reform.

    DO ALL OF IT. Enough already with meaningless hopes, prayers and deep reflection. ACT.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:35 am
  • Guns have been around for a VERY long time. Just because you now can buy an AR15 or an AK, this isn't the main issue. I agree that more training, HIPPA based background checks and stiffer gun penalties are needed, but that's not going to solve the problem. If someone is bat shit crazy enough to want to kill people, they will find a way.

    I like my high capacity firearms, they have never magically loaded themselves, unlocked my safe and pointed themselves at anyone. Penalizing a large group of lawful gun owners for the actions of a few crazy ones isn't logical.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:56 am
  • 2_0_6 wrote:Guns have been around for a VERY long time. Just because you now can buy an AR15 or an AK, this isn't the main issue. I agree that more training, HIPPA based background checks and stiffer gun penalties are needed, but that's not going to solve the problem. If someone is bat shit crazy enough to want to kill people, they will find a way.

    I like my high capacity firearms, they have never magically loaded themselves, unlocked my safe and pointed themselves at anyone. Penalizing a large group of lawful gun owners for the actions of a few crazy ones isn't logical.


    People will call them tools, and while they can be used as tools, they are essentially unnecessary toys. I don't find any logic in valuing ownership of these toys over innocent lives.
    JGfromtheNW
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:01 am
  • JGfromtheNW wrote:
    2_0_6 wrote:Guns have been around for a VERY long time. Just because you now can buy an AR15 or an AK, this isn't the main issue. I agree that more training, HIPPA based background checks and stiffer gun penalties are needed, but that's not going to solve the problem. If someone is bat shit crazy enough to want to kill people, they will find a way.

    I like my high capacity firearms, they have never magically loaded themselves, unlocked my safe and pointed themselves at anyone. Penalizing a large group of lawful gun owners for the actions of a few crazy ones isn't logical.


    People will call them tools, and while they can be used as tools, they are essentially unnecessary toys. I don't find any logic in valuing ownership of these toys over innocent lives.


    That is your opinion and I totally respect that.

    Some people collect high end watches, cars, baseball cars, knives, guns etc...

    If we were all wired to have the same interests, hobbies and beliefs that would suck.
    2_0_6
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:05 am
  • 2_0_6 wrote:Guns have been around for a VERY long time. Just because you now can buy an AR15 or an AK, this isn't the main issue. I agree that more training, HIPPA based background checks and stiffer gun penalties are needed, but that's not going to solve the problem. If someone is bat shit crazy enough to want to kill people, they will find a way.

    I like my high capacity firearms, they have never magically loaded themselves, unlocked my safe and pointed themselves at anyone. Penalizing a large group of lawful gun owners for the actions of a few crazy ones isn't logical.


    hmmm maybe it's the mental disposition of Americans right now, little hope of recovery from a catastrophic event in their lives, Divorce medical situation or unable to find meaningful employment etc. People are feeling desperate for a reason, why they take it out at Malls and schools is somewhat baffling other then a cry for help went unanswered somehow.

    We have less compassion for others then ever before and have become withdrawn in many areas, it's their problem, none of my business, I have my own issues don't need someone elses, don't want to risk getting involved with those people etc.

    That and people that try to find help get put on a list saying we'll get back with you, here fill out all this paperwork and see if you qualify. Oh and do you have Insurance?

    It kind of goes on and on instead of just doing the right thing, I think people feel isolated in many ways and have nothing to lose and get angry.

    Video games may not have helped, but hey we had comics with graphic violence, we had cartoons with violence also, Road Runner, Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd, they keep blaming mediums and each time blame a new one. Next will be Social Media for some reason.

    The core is much deeper then that stuff.

    We have had Guns here for a long time, if not guns then pipe bombs could be used or be a suicide bomber like other countries deal with. If you want to take yourself out and others with you most people will find a way. Maybe a truck full of fertilizer, remember that?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:11 am
  • The world we live in is a crazy place fellas. Religion, politics, gun ownership and does pineapple belong on pizza are subjects that can take people down a worm hole of arguments and generally never end well. It's no secret that I am a gun guy, but I would never press my beliefs or down talk to someone who doesn't have that same interest. There is no point.

    What I do think is a bit crazy is that 30+ people are shot every weekend in Chicago which has some of the toughest gun laws in the US, but is glossed over like it doesn't happen. Only when a mass hooting happens is when the fire is lit calling for all out bans.
    2_0_6
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:21 am
  • 2_0_6 wrote:
    JGfromtheNW wrote:
    2_0_6 wrote:Guns have been around for a VERY long time. Just because you now can buy an AR15 or an AK, this isn't the main issue. I agree that more training, HIPPA based background checks and stiffer gun penalties are needed, but that's not going to solve the problem. If someone is bat shit crazy enough to want to kill people, they will find a way.

    I like my high capacity firearms, they have never magically loaded themselves, unlocked my safe and pointed themselves at anyone. Penalizing a large group of lawful gun owners for the actions of a few crazy ones isn't logical.


    People will call them tools, and while they can be used as tools, they are essentially unnecessary toys. I don't find any logic in valuing ownership of these toys over innocent lives.


    That is your opinion and I totally respect that.

    Some people collect high end watches, cars, baseball cars, knives, guns etc...

    If we were all wired to have the same interests, hobbies and beliefs that would suck.


    I agree. I understand this is a crazy complex issue that the US is dealing with, it just doesn't make sense to me. You want a weapon for self-defense? Great, buy a pistol. You want something to go hunting with? Great, get a shotgun or a bolt-action/low capacity rifle.

    We've allowed firearms that were designed specifically for war and killing humans to proliferate the US like they're for hunting or self-defense, which is completely disingenuous IMO.

    I've always respected one's rights to own firearms, but it's getting to the point where we need to start restricting more types of firearms, who can purchase them and how, how they're maintained/stored, etc. Starting with reimplementing an "assault weapon ban" is a decent step (of course grandfathering people in like the 90's), and what you described in a post above about how that drove prices up on the secondary/black markets is a desired outcome. Make it cost prohibitive for the sick individuals that want to use ARs as their preferred tools of death.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:28 am
  • Part of the reason for our rights is in the event we needed a Militia and to keep our own Government honest. I said Government and Honest in the same sentence imagine that.

    That and to hunt and protect.

    That is why Gun laws are hard to change.

    People still remember how they disarmed Europe before the rise there with no way to defend against it.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:31 am
  • peachesenregalia wrote:Mass Shootings are a tiny fraction of the gun-related deaths in the US. Where's everyone's phony outrage over the tens of thousands of suicides by gun every year? Or the thousands of accidental gun deaths?

    Weird to me that people only seem to get fired up about this issue when the media tells them to.

    Commen Sense gun laws should have been enacted long ago, but our government sucks at getting anything tangible actually done. Anyone advocating for banning all guns in this country is an utter moron. Completely legally untenable and will literally never happen while the USA is in its current form.


    Legit questions peaches. I think the lack of outrage over suicides and accidental gun deaths is that, when those events happen, they aren't in public places and will only directly affect say one family. Mass shootings basically equate to terrorism. A lot of people no longer feel safe in malls, movie theaters, music festivals, etc. There was an "active shooter" scare yesterday in Time Square after a motorcycle back-fired and everyone thought it was a gun shot. That's America these days.

    Completely agree that Common Sense gun laws should have been enacted a long time ago. However, with the state of US politics, lobbying, etc., even Common Sense gun laws are seen as an attack on the 2nd Amendment.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:32 am
  • chris98251 wrote:Part of the reason for our rights is in the event we needed a Militia and to keep our own Government honest. I said Government and Honest in the same sentence imagine that.

    That and to hunt and protect.

    That is why Gun laws are hard to change.

    People still remember how they disarmed Europe before the rise there with no way to defend against it.


    Ah yes. Joe and his neighbor Bob are totally going to protect themselves with their ARs from the US military and their drones, tanks and other vastly superior weapons tech lol.
    JGfromtheNW
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:58 am
  • JGfromtheNW wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Part of the reason for our rights is in the event we needed a Militia and to keep our own Government honest. I said Government and Honest in the same sentence imagine that.

    That and to hunt and protect.

    That is why Gun laws are hard to change.

    People still remember how they disarmed Europe before the rise there with no way to defend against it.


    Ah yes. Joe and his neighbor Bob are totally going to protect themselves with their ARs from the US military and their drones, tanks and other vastly superior weapons tech lol.



    If the US uses drones on our own soil against our on civilians, there are bigger issues going on.
    2_0_6
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:25 am
  • 2_0_6 wrote:
    I like my high capacity firearms, they have never magically loaded themselves, unlocked my safe and pointed themselves at anyone. Penalizing a large group of lawful gun owners for the actions of a few crazy ones isn't logical.


    They sure do a lot of damage and cause a lot of deaths when crazy people unlock, load and shoot them.

    So your fun is more important than lessening and minimizing deaths?

    People died a lot on motorcycles, so we passed a helmet law, people died in car wrecks, so we passed seatbelt laws, cars were less safe, so we passed mandatory airbag and safety laws, people died from cigarettes so we forced transparency and warning labels, people die of heart disease so we passed laws forcing food companies to post ingredients on labels.

    We do all sorts of smart things through laws, but for some reason THIS is the one thing certain citizens can't get past. It's mind boggling.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:36 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    2_0_6 wrote:
    I like my high capacity firearms, they have never magically loaded themselves, unlocked my safe and pointed themselves at anyone. Penalizing a large group of lawful gun owners for the actions of a few crazy ones isn't logical.


    They sure do a lot of damage and cause a lot of deaths when crazy people unlock, load and shoot them.

    So your fun is more important than lessening and minimizing deaths?

    People died a lot on motorcycles, so we passed a helmet law, people died in car wrecks, so we passed seatbelt laws, cars were less safe, so we passed mandatory airbag and safety laws, people died from cigarettes so we forced transparency and warning labels, people die of heart disease so we passed laws forcing food companies to post ingredients on labels.

    We do all sorts of smart things through laws, but for some reason THIS is the one thing certain citizens can't get past. It's mind boggling.



    Your acting like there are zero gun laws in place, which in fact is untrue. It's extremely more difficult to purchase a firearm in 2019 than it was in 2009, and even more so than in 1999. As crimes have happened, laws have been added year after year after year. To have the stance that buying a gun LEGALLY is a simple mundane task with no legal hoops to jump through or any type of background check is comical.

    My firearms have not killed anyone, so why should my hobby be punished for what a handful of idiots did? Thanks, but Ill pass.
    2_0_6
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:02 pm
  • Statistics being what they are there’s plenty of ways to infer causation, but simple truth is that gun ownership rates have gone up and homicide rates have gone down. Comparisons to other countries are difficult due to data quality and even those indicate that cultural homogeneity and strong cultural norms (the opposite of the US) have a higher correlation to low homicide rates.

    Probably an over simplification to call it mental illness, however, most spree killers have a lot in common: Dysfunctional families, history of abuse/trauma, low social status, embrace of radical ideology, etc.

    If you can find a way to detect that in a background check I’d be in support of enhancing them, but don’t kid yourself that making the current form ubiquitous will have an impact. Red Flag laws are interesting, but again, detection is an issue and potential for abuse is sky high.

    There does seem to be an argument for early intervention as indicated by the Parkland and Dayton killers getting what amounts to a free pass with early offenses due to the current philosophy of non stigmatization.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:28 pm
  • JGfromtheNW wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Part of the reason for our rights is in the event we needed a Militia and to keep our own Government honest. I said Government and Honest in the same sentence imagine that.

    That and to hunt and protect.

    That is why Gun laws are hard to change.

    People still remember how they disarmed Europe before the rise there with no way to defend against it.


    Ah yes. Joe and his neighbor Bob are totally going to protect themselves with their ARs from the US military and their drones, tanks and other vastly superior weapons tech lol.


    You miss the bigger issue, is GI Joe going to fire on little sister and mom and dad or tell someone to go to hell and flip that tank around.
    chris98251
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:29 pm
  • JGfromtheNW wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Part of the reason for our rights is in the event we needed a Militia and to keep our own Government honest. I said Government and Honest in the same sentence imagine that.

    That and to hunt and protect.

    That is why Gun laws are hard to change.

    People still remember how they disarmed Europe before the rise there with no way to defend against it.


    Ah yes. Joe and his neighbor Bob are totally going to protect themselves with their ARs from the US military and their drones, tanks and other vastly superior weapons tech lol.


    You miss the bigger issue, is GI Joe going to fire on little sister and mom and dad or tell someone to go to hell and flip that tank around.
    chris98251
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:32 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    JGfromtheNW wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Part of the reason for our rights is in the event we needed a Militia and to keep our own Government honest. I said Government and Honest in the same sentence imagine that.

    That and to hunt and protect.

    That is why Gun laws are hard to change.

    People still remember how they disarmed Europe before the rise there with no way to defend against it.


    Ah yes. Joe and his neighbor Bob are totally going to protect themselves with their ARs from the US military and their drones, tanks and other vastly superior weapons tech lol.


    You miss the bigger issue, is GI Joe going to fire on little sister and mom and dad or tell someone to go to hell and flip that tank around.


    If that's the case, why would we need to protect ourselves at all?
    JGfromtheNW
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:34 pm
  • JGfromtheNW wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    JGfromtheNW wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Part of the reason for our rights is in the event we needed a Militia and to keep our own Government honest. I said Government and Honest in the same sentence imagine that.

    That and to hunt and protect.

    That is why Gun laws are hard to change.

    People still remember how they disarmed Europe before the rise there with no way to defend against it.


    Ah yes. Joe and his neighbor Bob are totally going to protect themselves with their ARs from the US military and their drones, tanks and other vastly superior weapons tech lol.


    You miss the bigger issue, is GI Joe going to fire on little sister and mom and dad or tell someone to go to hell and flip that tank around.


    If that's the case, why would we need to protect ourselves at all?


    Read up on the history of Germany and what they did to disarm those citizens before all hell broke loose.
    chris98251
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:45 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    JGfromtheNW wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    JGfromtheNW wrote:
    Ah yes. Joe and his neighbor Bob are totally going to protect themselves with their ARs from the US military and their drones, tanks and other vastly superior weapons tech lol.


    You miss the bigger issue, is GI Joe going to fire on little sister and mom and dad or tell someone to go to hell and flip that tank around.


    If that's the case, why would we need to protect ourselves at all?


    Read up on the history of Germany and what they did to disarm those citizens before all hell broke loose.


    I know my Nazi Germany history, thank you. I guess I'm having a hard time following you.

    - We need assault rifles to protect ourselves from or own government
    - Our assault rifles will do next to nothing to protect ourselves if our own government deploys even a sliver of a fraction of its military might
    - We then are relying on the willingness of individuals in the military to stop themselves (which, for instance, didn't happen in Nazi Germany due to the buy-in/indoctrination of it's citizens)

    Is the take away that the only way to stop a bad guy with a tank is a good guy with a tank? :lol:
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:03 pm
  • My invite to anyone remains open if someone wants to meet up at a range sometime. No politics, no arguing, just come out and punch some paper targets and talk football.
    2_0_6
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Re: Mass Shootings
Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:20 pm
  • Neil Degrasse Tyson had a wonderful tweet putting this all into proper perspective.

    But IMO, as a rule of thumb, I believe we need to look into root causes of why people kill if we want to find a solution that is effective, efficient, and doesn't screw people over.
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