Mass Shootings

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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:27 pm
  • Saying a gun enthusiast is part of the problem of mass shootings and gun violence is like saying q martial arts enthusiast is part of the problem of physical assault and battery.

    Also, if somebody doesn't hunt or shoot targets or even have a gun, it sure puts them in an easy position to want to take them away from people who do. "Hey I can behind this because it doesn't affect me!"
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:56 pm
  • Uncle Si wrote:
    It's astonishing you're not even slightly aware of your impact. And moreso, cavalier in your ignorance of it.

    Ignorance? Your every post highlights yours. You have no understanding of root cause, no grasp of the scope of the issue, your ‘solution’ has been proven ineffective, and your knowledge of firearms and existing statute appears on par with the average Vox contributor.

    Stop drinking the Media Matters :179422: and look to mental health reform rather than obsessing over the boogeyman of firearms. Changes to involuntary commitment alone would far exceed any possession/purchase temperance movement. Have to wonder how many lives One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest has cost by casting the mental hospital system as an evil institution.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:43 pm
  • I still blame that evil Rock 'n' Roll, damn devil music caused the decline of civilization.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:52 pm
  • Osprey wrote:Stop drinking the Media Matters :179422: and look to mental health reform rather than obsessing over the boogeyman of firearms. Changes to involuntary commitment alone would far exceed any possession/purchase temperance movement. Have to wonder how many lives One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest has cost by casting the mental hospital system as an evil institution.


    OK. So firearms aren't the problem, mental illness is.

    How do we explain this? This is the number of mass shootings per country so far in 2019.

    Image

    Is there no mental illness in these other countries?

    FTR, I completely agree with you that we also desperately need mental health reform in this country.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:40 pm
  • EmbattleTheeHawks wrote:This conversation is incredible, 206 you and your argument are infuriating.



    It's not my argument, it's my right, my opinion, my hobby, and if any of that infuriates you then that's all on you. :2thumbs:
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:40 pm
  • Sometimes I role play like I'm the older guy seducing the straight neighbor. Other times I'll be the straight neighbor getting seduced. Sometimes it's just a standard "lucky burglar" type thing. I've done endless scenarios. Especially when I was getting high. But I've never grabbed a gun and role-played as a butch, army, militia gun guy like y'all.

    You second amendment types are kinky lil boys.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:44 pm
  • Osprey wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    It's astonishing you're not even slightly aware of your impact. And moreso, cavalier in your ignorance of it.

    Ignorance? Your every post highlights yours. You have no understanding of root cause, no grasp of the scope of the issue, your ‘solution’ has been proven ineffective, and your knowledge of firearms and existing statute appears on par with the average Vox contributor.

    Stop drinking the Media Matters :179422: and look to mental health reform rather than obsessing over the boogeyman of firearms. Changes to involuntary commitment alone would far exceed any possession/purchase temperance movement. Have to wonder how many lives One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest has cost by casting the mental hospital system as an evil institution.


    And as many gun enthusiasts will do, they go right to mental health to avoid additional causation. Next is video games.

    If you're going to jump in, read all my posts. I discuss mental health as an issue. But trying to isolate it as the only is muddling a point to blur a narrative.

    Obsessing... good gracious guy. You're simply regurgitating the same distracting propaganda thrown down from the highest.

    Don't worry though, you'll get your chance again within a month or so.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:46 pm
  • Chapow wrote:
    Osprey wrote:Stop drinking the Media Matters :179422: and look to mental health reform rather than obsessing over the boogeyman of firearms. Changes to involuntary commitment alone would far exceed any possession/purchase temperance movement. Have to wonder how many lives One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest has cost by casting the mental hospital system as an evil institution.


    OK. So firearms aren't the problem, mental illness is.

    How do we explain this? This is the number of mass shootings per country so far in 2019.

    Image

    Is there no mental illness in these other countries?

    FTR, I completely agree with you that we also desperately need mental health reform in this country.



    It's too easy. Chapow.many gun owners either ignore this basic comparison or don't understand it.

    It's almost embarrassing he tried to suggest my point was based on some media narrative while he quotes the opening remarks of an NRA meeting.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:50 pm
  • How do we address this mental health issue? It's gonna cost money and would most likely require some federal funding.

    That's the irony of these mental health arguments from 2nd amendment types. They're pretty much asking for federal spending on healthcare. It's fantastic.
    Last edited by pehawk on Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:52 pm
  • pehawk wrote:Sometimes I role play like I'm the older guy seducing the straight neighbor. Other times I'll be the straight neighbor getting seduced. Sometimes it's just a standard "lucky burglar" type thing. I've done endless scenarios. Especially when I was getting high. But I've never grabbed a gun and role-played as a butch, army, militia gun guy like y'all.

    You second amendment types are kinky lil boys.


    But... would You?

    Asking for a friend..
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:56 pm
  • Osprey wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    It's astonishing you're not even slightly aware of your impact. And moreso, cavalier in your ignorance of it.

    Ignorance? Your every post highlights yours. You have no understanding of root cause, no grasp of the scope of the issue, your ‘solution’ has been proven ineffective, and your knowledge of firearms and existing statute appears on par with the average Vox contributor.

    Stop drinking the Media Matters :179422: and look to mental health reform rather than obsessing over the boogeyman of firearms. Changes to involuntary commitment alone would far exceed any possession/purchase temperance movement. Have to wonder how many lives One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest has cost by casting the mental hospital system as an evil institution.


    Socialized medicine is not the answer.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:17 pm
  • 2_0_6 wrote:
    EmbattleTheeHawks wrote:This conversation is incredible, 206 you and your argument are infuriating.



    It's not my argument, it's my right, my opinion, my hobby, and if any of that infuriates you then that's all on you. :2thumbs:


    I think it's more your attitude than your argument. Because your attitude kind of comes off like you don't really care because you like playing with your guns and it doesn't affect you. Or that stricter gun regulations are some sort of punishment directed at you personally as opposed to an effort to try to stem the tide of gun violence in this country. Or that you wish mass shootings would stop so that people wouldn't have conversations like this as opposed to wishing that mass shootings would stop so that a few dozen people aren't gunned down in a single weekend.

    I can see how someone would find that kind of attitude infuriating.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:53 pm
  • Chapow wrote:
    2_0_6 wrote:
    EmbattleTheeHawks wrote:This conversation is incredible, 206 you and your argument are infuriating.



    It's not my argument, it's my right, my opinion, my hobby, and if any of that infuriates you then that's all on you. :2thumbs:


    I think it's more your attitude than your argument. Because your attitude kind of comes off like you don't really care because you like playing with your guns and it doesn't affect you.
    Or that stricter gun regulations are some sort of punishment directed at you personally as opposed to an effort to try to stem the tide of gun violence in this country. Or that you wish mass shootings would stop so that people wouldn't have conversations like this as opposed to wishing that mass shootings would stop so that a few dozen people aren't gunned down in a single weekend.

    I can see how someone would find that kind of attitude infuriating.


    What is exactly wrong with my attitude? Many many times in this thread I mentioned that stricter background checks including HIPPA info need to be instated, training and stiffer gun penalties. I have been called insecure, ignorant, and an @$$h0le to name a few all for one simple thing... I own firearms and will continue to spend money on a industry that some do not approve of.

    Nothing more, nothing less.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:37 pm
  • Chapow wrote:
    Osprey wrote:Stop drinking the Media Matters :179422: and look to mental health reform rather than obsessing over the boogeyman of firearms. Changes to involuntary commitment alone would far exceed any possession/purchase temperance movement. Have to wonder how many lives One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest has cost by casting the mental hospital system as an evil institution.


    OK. So firearms aren't the problem, mental illness is.

    How do we explain this? This is the number of mass shootings per country so far in 2019.

    Image

    Is there no mental illness in these other countries?

    FTR, I completely agree with you that we also desperately need mental health reform in this country.

    What’s the source for this, do you really believe there’s been 249 mass shootings in 2019? The odds of the stats being apples to apples are probably worse than the Cardinal’s winning SB LIV.

    *This took all of five seconds:
    https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/aug/05/viral-tweet-about-mass-shootings-country-it-needs-/

    Congress defines "mass killings," as three or more people killed. The FBI and the Congressional Research Service use a standard of four or more deaths. By that definition, the archive data show 20 mass shootings this year.

    The problem with setting the Gun Violence Archive number against the count of mass shootings in other countries is that researchers don’t know how other nations define these incidents, or what data lie behind the tweet.

    "What we might call a mass shooting another country may flag as terrorism or genocide, so standard keyword searches might miss that," Schildkraut said.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:42 pm
  • pehawk wrote:How do we address this mental health issue? It's gonna cost money and would most likely require some federal funding.

    That's the irony of these mental health arguments from 2nd amendment types. They're pretty much asking for federal spending on healthcare. It's fantastic.

    I’d take spending on mental hospitals over pouring endless money into ‘homelessness’ any day. Two birds (at least), one stone.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:19 am
  • Osprey wrote:
    Chapow wrote:
    Osprey wrote:Stop drinking the Media Matters :179422: and look to mental health reform rather than obsessing over the boogeyman of firearms. Changes to involuntary commitment alone would far exceed any possession/purchase temperance movement. Have to wonder how many lives One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest has cost by casting the mental hospital system as an evil institution.


    OK. So firearms aren't the problem, mental illness is.

    How do we explain this? This is the number of mass shootings per country so far in 2019.

    Image

    Is there no mental illness in these other countries?

    FTR, I completely agree with you that we also desperately need mental health reform in this country.

    What’s the source for this, do you really believe there’s been 249 mass shootings in 2019? The odds of the stats being apples to apples are probably worse than the Cardinal’s winning SB LIV.

    *This took all of five seconds:
    https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/aug/05/viral-tweet-about-mass-shootings-country-it-needs-/

    Congress defines "mass killings," as three or more people killed. The FBI and the Congressional Research Service use a standard of four or more deaths. By that definition, the archive data show 20 mass shootings this year.

    The problem with setting the Gun Violence Archive number against the count of mass shootings in other countries is that researchers don’t know how other nations define these incidents, or what data lie behind the tweet.

    "What we might call a mass shooting another country may flag as terrorism or genocide, so standard keyword searches might miss that," Schildkraut said.


    And even if that data weren't somehow cherry picked to fit a preconceived narrative, lots of other relevant data is missing too. Lots and lots and lots.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:41 am
  • *"alleged mass shootings"*
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:29 am
  • peachesenregalia wrote:Again, the fact that this discussion only ever comes up right after a "mass shooting" tells me the outrage is phony and mostly self-serving.


    It really is.

    The odds of dying in a mass shooting is soooooo incredibly low. I can only guess that it's the language and presentation that the media can use to rile up emotions when this happens. And when you talk to people about it, it's easy to see that emotions are controlling their energy rather than logic.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:36 am
  • Surprising it took this long for the troll peanut gallery to show up and wow us with their special brand of annoying rhetoric.

    This thread is a microcosm of the gun discussion..................one side is willing to try and do anything and everything to fix a very serious issue in our country, and the other side has decided moving even one inch towards compromise is a direct insult and affront to their manhood and political affiliations, and will never be able to get past that out of sheer stubbornness and insecurity.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:06 am
  • Quantity of life is not the most important thing in the world. Solutions do not exist in a vacuum. Principles matter. Quality of life matters. Long term effects on our species brains in terms of evolution and behavior patterns matter. Etc etc etc.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:11 am
  • fenderbender123 wrote:Quantity of life is not the most important thing in the world. Solutions do not exist in a vacuum. Principles matter. Quality of life matters. Long term effects on our species brains in terms of evolution and behavior patterns matter. Etc etc etc.


    Sure it is, why we have a crisis everywhere, there are too many of us using up to many resources that impacts the quality of life. We need a mass pilgrimage of about 70 percent of the world human population to the Grand Canyon and do a Lemmings mass suicide to balance the world out.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:00 am
  • fenderbender123 wrote:Quantity of life is not the most important thing in the world. Solutions do not exist in a vacuum. Principles matter. Quality of life matters. Long term effects on our species brains in terms of evolution and behavior patterns matter. Etc etc etc.


    Quality of life would be an argument FOR gun control. We're talking about just plain life.

    That's 206's and other pro 2nd Amendment people's stance.........."my quality of life with my guns is more important than any solution or measure that might help fix the problem."

    Both selfish, misguided and wrong IMO. When our citizens and especially children are dying more than the average compared to other civilized first world societies, everyone should not only be concerned, but willing to do anything to fix this problem.

    There is no Amendment or law I wouldn't change if I thought it'd help save lives. To not have that opinion is flat out immoral and wrong to me.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:20 am
  • peachesenregalia wrote:Again, the fact that this discussion only ever comes up right after a "mass shooting" tells me the outrage is phony and mostly self-serving.

    Goes back to the ‘don’t let a crisis go to waste’ mentality. 2A deniers know they can’t win a logical debate based on facts and hope the fog of emotion will win the day.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:44 am
  • The solution is pretty simple. Get rid of all these huge semi automatic guns. I don't care if they are for collecting or hunting, but they aren't needed. Too bad if the few hunters like them, they can do just fine with their pistols and ordinary rifles.

    One aspect I don't think anyone has brought up is the media. All the major news networks should not broadcast these shootings. People only tune in and watch for entertainment. Now if it happens in your town, then yes local news should cover it as it affects your community. But why do we in Seattle need to watch hours of news coverage about a mass killing in Dayton? These networks broadcast these killings for ratings, as shown by the corny interviews when they ask people what it was like watching someone next to them get killed. Guns have been around for ages.

    So what has changed recently that has led to all these mass killings? Big guns have been around for a while. Mental illness has as well. Media has changed, a lot. For every killing, it gets a ton of coverage. Crazy people see it, and they want to be the next big news story. I laugh when CNN tries to talk about what can be done to prevent mass killings. How about stop broadcasting it like it's the NBA Finals. Stop giving these killers there one week of fame. Unless it happens in your own community, there is no reason or need to watch.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:49 am
  • Hawk-Lock wrote:The solution is pretty simple. Get rid of all these huge semi automatic guns. I don't care if they are for collecting or hunting, but they aren't needed. Too bad if the few hunters like them, they can do just fine with their pistols and ordinary rifles.

    One aspect I don't think anyone has brought up is the media. All the major news networks should not broadcast these shootings. People only tune in and watch for entertainment. Now if it happens in your town, then yes local news should cover it as it affects your community. But why do we in Seattle need to watch hours of news coverage about a mass killing in Dayton? These networks broadcast these killings for ratings, as shown by the corny interviews when they ask people what it was like watching someone next to them get killed. Guns have been around for ages.

    So what has changed recently that has led to all these mass killings? Big guns have been around for a while. Mental illness has as well. Media has changed, a lot. For every killing, it gets a ton of coverage. Crazy people see it, and they want to be the next big news story. I laugh when CNN tries to talk about what can be done to prevent mass killings. How about stop broadcasting it like it's the NBA Finals. Stop giving these killers there one week of fame. Unless it happens in your own community, there is no reason or need to watch.


    Mental illness yes, taking care of them used to be something we did, the state of Washington has cut funding for the Mental health facilities here and all those patients are on the street homeless or family trying to care for them.

    Sanitariums mental health wards etc that are state ran are almost all closed now.

    Next time someone see's our Governor who is running for president that might want to be brought up as he lobbies for his health care plan here in Washington state for the Nation.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:28 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:Quantity of life is not the most important thing in the world. Solutions do not exist in a vacuum. Principles matter. Quality of life matters. Long term effects on our species brains in terms of evolution and behavior patterns matter. Etc etc etc.


    Quality of life would be an argument FOR gun control. We're talking about just plain life.

    That's 206's and other pro 2nd Amendment people's stance.........."my quality of life with my guns is more important than any solution or measure that might help fix the problem."

    Both selfish, misguided and wrong IMO. When our citizens and especially children are dying more than the average compared to other civilized first world societies, everyone should not only be concerned, but willing to do anything to fix this problem.

    There is no Amendment or law I wouldn't change if I thought it'd help save lives. To not have that opinion is flat out immoral and wrong to me.


    Look, I get where gun control advocates are coming from. I get the arguments. But don't you think it goes both ways?

    You say it's selfish for people to want to keep their guns, but don't you think it's also selfish for somebody who doesn't own guns to want to achieve a goal by making other people give up their guns?

    And for an example about quality vs quantity of life. Let's say an in depth scientific study revealed that if we banned all sports it would prevent a net of 7 premature American deaths each year. Would you support it? Would you support the sacrifice of NFL football and every other sport to save those lives? Would doing so result in an increase to everyone's quality of life as you were saying?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:03 pm
  • Osprey wrote:
    Chapow wrote:
    Osprey wrote:Stop drinking the Media Matters :179422: and look to mental health reform rather than obsessing over the boogeyman of firearms. Changes to involuntary commitment alone would far exceed any possession/purchase temperance movement. Have to wonder how many lives One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest has cost by casting the mental hospital system as an evil institution.


    OK. So firearms aren't the problem, mental illness is.

    How do we explain this? This is the number of mass shootings per country so far in 2019.

    Image

    Is there no mental illness in these other countries?

    FTR, I completely agree with you that we also desperately need mental health reform in this country.

    What’s the source for this, do you really believe there’s been 249 mass shootings in 2019? The odds of the stats being apples to apples are probably worse than the Cardinal’s winning SB LIV.

    *This took all of five seconds:
    https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/aug/05/viral-tweet-about-mass-shootings-country-it-needs-/

    Congress defines "mass killings," as three or more people killed. The FBI and the Congressional Research Service use a standard of four or more deaths. By that definition, the archive data show 20 mass shootings this year.

    The problem with setting the Gun Violence Archive number against the count of mass shootings in other countries is that researchers don’t know how other nations define these incidents, or what data lie behind the tweet.

    "What we might call a mass shooting another country may flag as terrorism or genocide, so standard keyword searches might miss that," Schildkraut said.


    You're right. I reposted something from page 1 of this thread (that no one took issue with until now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) without vetting it. My bad. So lets go ahead and completely ignore my overall point and start over.

    I'm going to assume that you find the link you provided an acceptable source, since you provided it and quoted it to refute what I reposted. Is that fair?

    Direct quote from the link you provided:
    At the end of the day, Lankford said the data support a more cautious conclusion than Edwards tweeted.

    "Some countries almost never experience public mass shootings that result in four or more victims being killed, while in the United States, we experience them regularly," he said.


    So, again, according to you, firearms are not the problem, mental illness is. If that is true then how do we explain the fact that we experience mass shootings "regularly" while other countries almost never experience them? Is there no mental illness in those other countries?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:08 pm
  • fenderbender123 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    fenderbender123 wrote:Quantity of life is not the most important thing in the world. Solutions do not exist in a vacuum. Principles matter. Quality of life matters. Long term effects on our species brains in terms of evolution and behavior patterns matter. Etc etc etc.


    Quality of life would be an argument FOR gun control. We're talking about just plain life.

    That's 206's and other pro 2nd Amendment people's stance.........."my quality of life with my guns is more important than any solution or measure that might help fix the problem."

    Both selfish, misguided and wrong IMO. When our citizens and especially children are dying more than the average compared to other civilized first world societies, everyone should not only be concerned, but willing to do anything to fix this problem.

    There is no Amendment or law I wouldn't change if I thought it'd help save lives. To not have that opinion is flat out immoral and wrong to me.


    Look, I get where gun control advocates are coming from. I get the arguments. But don't you think it goes both ways?

    You say it's selfish for people to want to keep their guns, but don't you think it's also selfish for somebody who doesn't own guns to want to achieve a goal by making other people give up their guns?

    And for an example about quality vs quantity of life. Let's say an in depth scientific study revealed that if we banned all sports it would prevent a net of 7 premature American deaths each year. Would you support it? Would you support the sacrifice of NFL football and every other sport to save those lives? Would doing so result in an increase to everyone's quality of life as you were saying?


    Where did you get 7 premature deaths from?

    40,000 gun related deaths in the US in 2018. 40,000. Not 7........and that's a 20 year high.

    So yes, if there were 40,000 NFL football related viewing deaths and a long history of tens of thousands of premature deaths and we had to give up all sports, I'd vote for that in a second.

    Cause I'm not an @$$h0le.

    btw, once again you just like others interpret "gun reform" to jack boot thugs busting your door down and taking ALL your guns. Like it's an all or none thing, and it's not. It's called compromise, and compromise can take on any and all options. But once again, the only argument you and others can make to where your insane opinion makes sense it to go to the extreme and come up with all these ridiculous comparisons.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:40 pm
  • That wasn't my point.

    I am just trying to gauge how many deaths you personally think are worth saving by sacrificing something you love. What should the standard be and why?

    It was a hypothetical. You should answer it...would you support a ban on sports if it saved 7 people? Or are you saying that is not enough lives to make it worth it?

    And let's say we pass legislation that isnt a full on ban but is a compromise, and as a result the number of gun related deaths drops to 35,000 a year. Is 35,000 okay with you? Or will you support more and more regulations until we have nothing left in order to get that number to 0?

    That is the point of the sports ban hypothetical...I want people to think about what is really worth sacrificing and for what and why and how far we should be willing to go. The journey begins with the next step we take, so maybe we should be careful.
    Last edited by fenderbender123 on Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:40 pm
  • Osprey wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:Again, the fact that this discussion only ever comes up right after a "mass shooting" tells me the outrage is phony and mostly self-serving.

    Goes back to the ‘don’t let a crisis go to waste’ mentality. 2A deniers know they can’t win a logical debate based on facts and hope the fog of emotion will win the day.


    Kind of like how no one is really talking about airplane safety unless there's a plane crash and then all of a sudden there's all this phony concern about it, right? ;)

    Look, most people have their hands full dealing with their daily lives. Just because people don't spend every waking hour worrying about a particular problem doesn't mean they don't genuinely care about that particular problem. It makes all the sense in the world that when that particular problem rears it's ugly head once again, people want to talk about and try to figure out ways to fix that problem. It's really pretty obvious why these types of discussions always follow in the wake of mass shootings. It's because, once again, a spot light has been shown on it that's pretty hard to ignore.


    Out of curiosity, what is a "2A denier"?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:08 pm
  • I have a request. If you disagree with this, how about explaining why instead of just ignoring the content and attempting to discredit the source?

    GAZETTE: Some gun control opponents have pointed to mental health issues and violent video games as major factors in the number of mass shootings in the United States. Are those two things more prevalent here than in other countries with lower rates of gun violence, and, if so, why?

    HEMENWAY: There are a whole range of things that could play a role in prevention, including better parenting, less racism, better education, more job opportunities. All of these things might have some effect on reducing shootings in the U.S. We should improve all those things. But the most cost-effective interventions involve doing something about guns. For example, as far as we can tell, virtually all developed countries have violent video games and people with mental health issues. There’s no evidence that I know of that shows that people in the U.S. have more mental health issues, especially violent mental health issues. Compared to other high-income countries we are just average in terms of non-gun crime and non-gun violence. The elephant in the room, the thing that makes us stand out among the 29 other high-income countries, is our guns and our weak gun laws. As a result, we have many more gun-related problems than any other high-income country. Every other developed country has shown us the way to vastly reduce our problems. Our guns, and our permissive gun laws, are what make us different than France, Italy, the Netherlands, South Korea, New Zealand, you name it.


    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... shootings/
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:12 pm
  • fenderbender123 wrote:That wasn't my point.

    I am just trying to gauge how many deaths you personally think are worth saving by sacrificing something you love. What should the standard be and why?

    It was a hypothetical. You should answer it...would you support a ban on sports if it saved 7 people? Or are you saying that is not enough lives to make it worth it?

    And let's say we pass legislation that isnt a full on ban but is a compromise, and as a result the number of gun related deaths drops to 35,000 a year. Is 35,000 okay with you? Or will you support more and more regulations until we have nothing left in order to get that number to 0?

    That is the point of the sports ban hypothetical...I want people to think about what is really worth sacrificing and for what and why and how far we should be willing to go. The journey begins with the next step we take, so maybe we should be careful.



    We've been "careful." for the past 40 years ever since the Brady bill was passed, which was the last real gun legislation, and that took our President almost being murdered.

    And if we pass meaningful legislation and the number drops to 35,000, or we see less mass killings? Then yes it's time to see if we could do more, or if it does absolutely nothing than we try something else.

    Why is this such a one sided compromise? What are you willing to give up or suggest? Because I and others suggest anything.

    I just love these one sided circular logic arguments to deflect what you already know is the truth.

    "Hmmm, I know real gun legislation would probably help.............or at least be a step in the right direction..............but let's not compromise on THAT, let's get into hypothetical arguments, hope, pray, do some deep reflection and talk about video games."

    Literally anything to not just do the right thing.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:33 pm
  • It's been theorized that men with a deep need for a large quantity of very powerful firearms are compensating for a lacking in another area much like men with very large trucks (that don't have mudflaps?).
    hawksfansinceday1
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:37 pm
  • For the record (inspired by HFSD1's post above) I have never owned a gun.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:04 pm
  • In before the lock. :snack:
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:19 pm
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:It's been theorized that men with a deep need for a large quantity of very powerful firearms are compensating for a lacking in another area much like men with very large trucks (that don't have mudflaps?).


    Has a study really been done on this? I want PROOF...(pics or it didn't happen)
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:23 pm
  • fenderbender123 wrote:For the record (inspired by HFSD1's post above) I have never owned a gun.


    For the record, I own a gun.

    I bought it (and a safe, and took classes) after this happened less than a mile away from my house.

    https://komonews.com/news/local/violent ... north-bend
    Chapow
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:55 pm
  • Have 2 dogs a Machete and 2 Rambo style Hunting knives, not quite as big but close. It would not be quick for them.

    I also look at it as if you come in my house uninvited your looking to do harm in some way, I will not let you threaten anyone with physical violence first. You won't be walking out to say anything different.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:20 pm
  • The evidence is undeniable
    Attachments
    IMG_20190809_181913.jpg
    IMG_20190809_181913.jpg (24.86 KiB) Viewed 152 times
    pehawk
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:28 pm
  • hawksfansinceday1 wrote:It's been theorized that men with a deep need for a large quantity of very powerful firearms are compensating for a lacking in another area much like men with very large trucks (that don't have mudflaps?).


    I only own two firearms but apparently that's enough to qualify me. Seriously, it's like a roll of Smarties.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:51 pm
  • How about statistics of antidepressants by country?

    Or anti anxiety medications?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:53 pm
  • The only thing I know for sure is that video games cause them, because we didn't have mass shootings or violence in general before violent video games.

    #TrueStory
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:41 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:The only thing I know for sure is that video games cause them, because we didn't have mass shootings or violence in general before violent video games.

    #TrueStory


    Kids now days shoot and kill people on a regular basis in games like Fortnite and CoD.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:43 pm
  • Glad we aren't over moderating this. Way to keep things damn civil everybody.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:24 pm
  • 2_0_6 wrote:My invite to anyone remains open if someone wants to meet up at a range sometime. No politics, no arguing, just come out and punch some paper targets and talk football.


    I am in. You bring the guns I'll buy the beers afterwards. PM me.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:47 am
  • Wenhawk wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:The only thing I know for sure is that video games cause them, because we didn't have mass shootings or violence in general before violent video games.

    #TrueStory


    Kids now days shoot and kill people on a regular basis in games like Fortnite and CoD.


    in every country in the world
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:55 am
  • peachesenregalia wrote:Again, the fact that this discussion only ever comes up right after a "mass shooting" tells me the outrage is phony and mostly self-serving.



    i disagree... to an extent

    I think it shows the numbness our society has to gun violence. We are well over 250 mass shootings in this year alone. Columbine was a seminal event in many people's lives.

    Now, its not even a blip in the deadliest shootings in American history. Sandy Hook saw the slaughter of 5-6 year old kids. People called it a hoax. Regular gun violence has become so common, as have the defense of guns, that it take something massive to even generate a news story. The other is where much of gun violence takes place, but that's another issue.

    Their is a certain sense of hopelessness with this issue you can even see in this thread.It's quickly replaced by the hopelessness of some other issue. If the hopelessness ever turns to desperation, then there may be action.

    Until then.... just commemorative introspectives with slow, sad music listing all the children, mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers killed by idiots and their idiot weapons
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:17 am
  • peachesenregalia wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    peachesenregalia wrote:Again, the fact that this discussion only ever comes up right after a "mass shooting" tells me the outrage is phony and mostly self-serving.



    i disagree... to an extent

    I think it shows the numbness our society has to gun violence. We are well over 250 mass shootings in this year alone. Columbine was a seminal event in many people's lives.

    Now, its not even a blip in the deadliest shootings in American history. Sandy Hook saw the slaughter of 5-6 year old kids. People called it a hoax. Regular gun violence has become so common, as have the defense of guns, that it take something massive to even generate a news story. The other is where much of gun violence takes place, but that's another issue.

    Their is a certain sense of hopelessness with this issue you can even see in this thread.It's quickly replaced by the hopelessness of some other issue. If the hopelessness ever turns to desperation, then there may be action.

    Until then.... just commemorative introspectives with slow, sad music listing all the children, mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers killed by idiots and their idiot weapons

    We’re not even close to that many mass shootings and you know it. That stat is nonsense. Sandy Hook wasn’t a hoax. Parkland was though. Phony outrage is the worst. It’s the same as thought and prayers, it accomplished nothing except an excuse to tweet. f***** nonsense.


    There have been 248 shootings in which 4 or more people have been shot as of July 31.
    "4 or more shot in one incident, at one location, at roughly the same time."
    You can argue the definition. That's fine. Just where I got the stat. It's still a whole lot.

    I don't disagree about phony outrage. I also think the follow through on it is poor. But I also believe that is due to numbness

    It's a pandemic. People seem less and less moved by them. Parkland seemed to move the needle. But fell.flat in the end.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:28 am
  • One of my issues is the sudden "caring" about mental health by 2nd amendment proponents whenever a mass shooting occurs. That's just as dishonest as those who feign outrage and emotional distress as a reaction to these shooting. Both sides are a*hole. Selfish, blame-shifting, oppurtunistic, a*hole.

    Just admit you don't care enough about toddlers being shot to give up your guns. And the other side needs to admit they use slain toddlers as a means to spout their messages. Just admit you're an @$$h0le.

    Especially you Wen. Just admit Todd, Kneel, and Mark are right and you're an @$$h0le.
    pehawk
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Re: Mass Shootings
Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:32 am
  • pehawk wrote:One of my issues is the sudden "caring" about mental health by 2nd amendment proponents whenever a mass shooting occurs. That's just as dishonest as those who feign outrage and emotional distress as a reaction to these shooting. Both sides are a*hole. Selfish, blame-shifting, oppurtunistic, a*hole.

    Just admit you don't care enough about toddlers being shot to give up your guns. And the other side needs to admit they use slain toddlers as a means to spout their messages. Just admit you're an @$$h0le.

    Especially you Wen. Just admit Todd, Kneel, and Mark are right and you're an @$$h0le.


    Don't disagree...

    I attended a handful of marches in the wake of Parkland. Nothing since.

    I'll be honest, I don't know what comes next.
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