Mass Shootings

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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:09 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:What's ironic is 99.999999% of the individuals who point to mental health and a decay of morality/parenting as the reasons for gun violence, are also opposed to anything insuring everyone has access to counseling and/or money for pre-k and after school programs.

    Makes it all come off as BS. Because if you truly cared about mental health and well-being of children you'd certainly be open to some form socialized/affordable healthcare and funding for schools. But, they never are.


    Do we agree that a mass shooter is mentally ill in some fashion?

    Pre-k and after school programs are glorified baby sitting.
    Are you suggesting that the public should be obligated to pay for your/anyone’s babysitting?

    That’s as bad as me suggesting that we sterilize people that can’t afford to raise a child properly.

    I won’t willingly pay for your babysitter but I will shoot her if I see her trying to kill you or your children.

    Lol
    Crap getting deep up in here.



    Again pmedic with the obtuse comprehension problems. pehawk said access to counseling and after school care, of which I assume would be better than the child going back to whatever broken dysfunctional home they live in, which is what contributed to them growing up and becoming a problem to society.

    He's right;

    Gun owners: "Hey it's not the guns, it's mental illness, lack of family and video games!"

    People who actually offer solutions: "Let's get kids the help they need at a young age then with counseling and other programs that may help their mental well being."

    Gun owners: "I'M NOT PAYING FOR YOUR BABYSITTERS!!"


    Don’t be an ass.

    I already said up thread that exploring ways to help people out of a life of crime was something we should be looking into.

    If you’re going to spout off, at least read enough to be accurate.

    The post your talking about was me messing around, always a good idea engage the brain before putting the mouth in gear.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:09 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:.........And Texas will be a $h!t.

    "will be"?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:14 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:What's ironic is 99.999999% of the individuals who point to mental health and a decay of morality/parenting as the reasons for gun violence, are also opposed to anything insuring everyone has access to counseling and/or money for pre-k and after school programs.

    Makes it all come off as BS. Because if you truly cared about mental health and well-being of children you'd certainly be open to some form socialized/affordable healthcare and funding for schools. But, they never are.


    Do we agree that a mass shooter is mentally ill in some fashion?

    Pre-k and after school programs are glorified baby sitting.
    Are you suggesting that the public should be obligated to pay for your/anyone’s babysitting?

    That’s as bad as me suggesting that we sterilize people that can’t afford to raise a child properly.

    I won’t willingly pay for your babysitter but I will shoot her if I see her trying to kill you or your children.

    Lol
    Crap getting deep up in here.



    Again pmedic with the obtuse comprehension problems. pehawk said access to counseling and after school care, of which I assume would be better than the child going back to whatever broken dysfunctional home they live in, which is what contributed to them growing up and becoming a problem to society.

    He's right;

    Gun owners: "Hey it's not the guns, it's mental illness, lack of family and video games!"

    People who actually offer solutions: "Let's get kids the help they need at a young age then with counseling and other programs that may help their mental well being."

    Gun owners: "I'M NOT PAYING FOR YOUR BABYSITTERS!!"


    As I mentioned above, the problem isn't funding these types of programs. The problem is they generally primarily apply compassion without the necessary correction.

    I have friends who lost a teenager to mental illness because they couldn't force her into treatment (violated her rights in Washington state) and the few times she agreed to treatment they didn't have access to what was discussed (also a violation of her rights in Washington state.) So we are becoming more concerned with showing compassion then solving the problems, which really only feeds the problem. We feel sorry for people who are fire but since they want to burn we dump gasoline on them.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:15 pm
  • Selling to a Mentally ill person is one thing, what if the first weapon is sold to that person who's name is Pmedic at say 18, everything is good. Pmedic buys weapons every once in a while for 20 years and now has several, over this same period of time a genetic situation creates a latent instability or a situation from his job creates a PTSD ticking situation, either way it is not diagnosed as it slowly manifests. Pmedic does not think about it because he has his job, his family, he hides it when he feels stressed.

    Now a catastrophe happens either a break in while he is away something he normally ten years ago could handle but now he does not have the faculties to, or he gets unjustly fired from his job, some situation and he snaps.

    That's a lot of what happens, people can be fine and slowly decay into a mental illness undiagnosed.

    You can't account for them being in the system, Pmedic used you as an example since your the person arguing the stance no hard feelings here. They have slowly slipped and may not recognize it, feel it is just stress and Men don't go see Dr's to deal with stress, they man up and deal with it.

    Un reported and diagnosed Mental illness.

    You can't fight and help those that are not in the system and most cases mental health situations needs the affected person to submit to treatment themselves.

    So you can't fix that aspect, whats left to do?

    Eliminate the tool from their tool box. Or change the law's for mental health evaluation and being detained. That does open a whole other violation of current rights however.

    The question comes down to how much or how many lives be lost to maintain current status quo, 1, 10, 100, 1000,10,000, 100,000 1,000,000, 10,000,000. Pretty sure we are closer to the Million and 10 million levels over time since the 2nd amendment.
    Last edited by chris98251 on Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:16 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:What's ironic is 99.999999% of the individuals who point to mental health and a decay of morality/parenting as the reasons for gun violence, are also opposed to anything insuring everyone has access to counseling and/or money for pre-k and after school programs.

    Makes it all come off as BS. Because if you truly cared about mental health and well-being of children you'd certainly be open to some form socialized/affordable healthcare and funding for schools. But, they never are.


    Do we agree that a mass shooter is mentally ill in some fashion?

    Pre-k and after school programs are glorified baby sitting.
    Are you suggesting that the public should be obligated to pay for your/anyone’s babysitting?

    That’s as bad as me suggesting that we sterilize people that can’t afford to raise a child properly.

    I won’t willingly pay for your babysitter but I will shoot her if I see her trying to kill you or your children.

    Lol
    Crap getting deep up in here.



    Again pmedic with the obtuse comprehension problems. pehawk said access to counseling and after school care, of which I assume would be better than the child going back to whatever broken dysfunctional home they live in, which is what contributed to them growing up and becoming a problem to society.

    He's right;

    Gun owners: "Hey it's not the guns, it's mental illness, lack of family and video games!"

    People who actually offer solutions: "Let's get kids the help they need at a young age then with counseling and other programs that may help their mental well being."

    Gun owners: "I'M NOT PAYING FOR YOUR BABYSITTERS!!"


    Don’t be an ass.

    I already said up thread that exploring ways to help people out of a life of crime was something we should be looking into.

    If you’re going to spout off, at least read enough to be accurate.

    The post your talking about was me messing around, always a good idea engage the brain before putting the mouth in gear.


    So far you said you want a database of our medical records. That's it. So quit acting like you've offered any insight on this specific mental health issue.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:22 pm
  • Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    It was put in place partly because the British were disarming them to control them from the fight for independence.
    The current call to disarm all Americans because of a tiny fraction of spree killers is loopy at best and reminds us of how the British tried to control them way back then.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:25 pm
  • Seahawk wrote:Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    It was put in place partly because the British were disarming them to control them from the fight for independence.
    The current call to disarm all Americans because of a tiny fraction of spree killers is loopy at best and reminds us of how the British tried to control them way back then.


    So it would be ok to shoot your family and friends since it's just a few people and is just a person being Loopy and doesn't really matter in the big picture.

    Got It !
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:28 pm
  • Single age for definition of adult (voting, smoking, drinking, serving in the military, gun ownership, sexual consent, exclusion of your parents in your care decisions, etc. If you aren't old enough for one of these things you aren't old enough for any of them.)

    Eliminate local government gun laws as unconstitutional (state, county, city)

    Eliminate state CCP

    Federal CCP valid anywhere in the US and requiring training and extensive background checks. Renewal required every 2 years.

    Background checks and wait periods for any firearm purchase. No wait period for Federal CCP holders. This includes private sales being required to go through a transfer service.

    Gun Free zones require person by person screening (see airports and stadiums.) Labeling something a gun free zone and not screening everybody who enters the area is absurd.

    Allow other places (without person by person screening) to ban open carry but not concealed carry by people with CCP. Living spaces are exempt, any person can say no guns in their home (should be obvious but nothing really is these days.) In the case of group dwellings this would apply to the unit and not the whole (appartment but not the appartment building for example.)
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:36 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    It was put in place partly because the British were disarming them to control them from the fight for independence.
    The current call to disarm all Americans because of a tiny fraction of spree killers is loopy at best and reminds us of how the British tried to control them way back then.


    So it would be ok to shoot your family and friends since it's just a few people and is just a person being Loopy and doesn't really matter in the big picture.

    Got It !

    It sure is a good thing the French helped us resupply with guns or you wouldn't be able to sit behind your keyboard spouting your nonsense. It certainly isn't OK that people use guns in bad ways, but loopy spree shooters are somewhere in the 0.001% of human deaths and our current focus on fixing it is good but there are 99.998% of other things more deadly than they are.

    There is such a large focus on such a small problem is because it's splashed in your face by the media. Nobody likes murder but there is such a thing as perspective.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:45 pm
  • pehawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    Do we agree that a mass shooter is mentally ill in some fashion?

    Pre-k and after school programs are glorified baby sitting.
    Are you suggesting that the public should be obligated to pay for your/anyone’s babysitting?

    That’s as bad as me suggesting that we sterilize people that can’t afford to raise a child properly.

    I won’t willingly pay for your babysitter but I will shoot her if I see her trying to kill you or your children.

    Lol
    Crap getting deep up in here.



    Again pmedic with the obtuse comprehension problems. pehawk said access to counseling and after school care, of which I assume would be better than the child going back to whatever broken dysfunctional home they live in, which is what contributed to them growing up and becoming a problem to society.

    He's right;

    Gun owners: "Hey it's not the guns, it's mental illness, lack of family and video games!"

    People who actually offer solutions: "Let's get kids the help they need at a young age then with counseling and other programs that may help their mental well being."

    Gun owners: "I'M NOT PAYING FOR YOUR BABYSITTERS!!"


    Don’t be an ass.

    I already said up thread that exploring ways to help people out of a life of crime was something we should be looking into.

    If you’re going to spout off, at least read enough to be accurate.

    The post your talking about was me messing around, always a good idea engage the brain before putting the mouth in gear.


    So far you said you want a database of our medical records. That's it. So quit acting like you've offered any insight on this specific mental health issue.


    Dude stop.
    Stop twisting words to meet your agenda.

    I never said I wanted that, I’ve never said anything close to that.
    I mentioned it as a possible place to start on the mental health side of this.

    I actually don’t like the idea of my health info being logged into a data base. I’m aware that much of it already is based off of insurance claims but that’s a separate matter.

    My point is/was, you can walk into a Drs office and tell him you are stressed out and thinking about shooting up Pikes market.
    As far as I know, that Dr. is not obligated to report you. Your rights to protected Heath info takes the lead.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:46 pm
  • Seahawk wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    It was put in place partly because the British were disarming them to control them from the fight for independence.
    The current call to disarm all Americans because of a tiny fraction of spree killers is loopy at best and reminds us of how the British tried to control them way back then.


    So it would be ok to shoot your family and friends since it's just a few people and is just a person being Loopy and doesn't really matter in the big picture.

    Got It !

    It sure is a good thing the French helped us resupply with guns or you wouldn't be able to sit behind your keyboard spouting your nonsense. It certainly isn't OK that people use guns in bad ways, but loopy spree shooters are somewhere in the 0.001% of human deaths and our current focus on fixing it is good but there are 99.998% of other things more deadly than they are.

    There is such a large focus on such a small problem is because it's splashed in your face by the media. Nobody likes murder but there is such a thing as perspective.



    So the multitudes that are killed have been killed and will be killed is considered collateral damage.

    If it was Aides people would be all over wanting a cure, if it was Small Pox people would want an all out war waged on a cure, but it's guns and other then the media moments it is forgotten till the next incident.

    That's the problem, I don't have the numbers but I would bet guns killed more then both of these in the United States.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:46 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    It was put in place partly because the British were disarming them to control them from the fight for independence.
    The current call to disarm all Americans because of a tiny fraction of spree killers is loopy at best and reminds us of how the British tried to control them way back then.


    So it would be ok to shoot your family and friends since it's just a few people and is just a person being Loopy and doesn't really matter in the big picture.

    Got It !


    That’s another BS statement and you know it.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:49 pm
  • You got a vicious circle jerk going on.

    Don't mess with my 2nd amendment rights to have a gun.

    Don't mess with my rights for medical privacy and mental illness disclosure.

    Don't mess with my rights for illegal search and seizure.

    But make sure you fix the issue with Mass Shootings and Gun violence.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:50 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    It was put in place partly because the British were disarming them to control them from the fight for independence.
    The current call to disarm all Americans because of a tiny fraction of spree killers is loopy at best and reminds us of how the British tried to control them way back then.


    So it would be ok to shoot your family and friends since it's just a few people and is just a person being Loopy and doesn't really matter in the big picture.

    Got It !

    It sure is a good thing the French helped us resupply with guns or you wouldn't be able to sit behind your keyboard spouting your nonsense. It certainly isn't OK that people use guns in bad ways, but loopy spree shooters are somewhere in the 0.001% of human deaths and our current focus on fixing it is good but there are 99.998% of other things more deadly than they are.

    There is such a large focus on such a small problem is because it's splashed in your face by the media. Nobody likes murder but there is such a thing as perspective.



    So the multitudes that are killed have been killed and will be killed is considered collateral damage.

    If it was Aides people would be all over wanting a cure, if it was Small Pox people would want an all out war waged on a cure, but it's guns and other then the media moments it is forgotten till the next incident.

    That's the problem, I don't have the numbers but I would bet guns killed more then both of these in the United States.

    I'm not positive, but I think this is what is known as a ridiculous straw man argument.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:51 pm
  • JustTheTip wrote:Single age for definition of adult (voting, smoking, drinking, serving in the military, gun ownership, sexual consent, exclusion of your parents in your care decisions, etc. If you aren't old enough for one of these things you aren't old enough for any of them.)

    Eliminate local government gun laws as unconstitutional (state, county, city)

    Eliminate state CCP

    Federal CCP valid anywhere in the US and requiring training and extensive background checks. Renewal required every 2 years.

    Background checks and wait periods for any firearm purchase. No wait period for Federal CCP holders. This includes private sales being required to go through a transfer service.

    Gun Free zones require person by person screening (see airports and stadiums.) Labeling something a gun free zone and not screening everybody who enters the area is absurd.

    Allow other places (without person by person screening) to ban open carry but not concealed carry by people with CCP. Living spaces are exempt, any person can say no guns in their home (should be obvious but nothing really is these days.) In the case of group dwellings this would apply to the unit and not the whole (appartment but not the appartment building for example.)

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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:56 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:You got a vicious circle jerk going on.

    Don't mess with my 2nd amendment rights to have a gun.

    Don't mess with my rights for medical privacy and mental illness disclosure.

    Don't mess with my rights for illegal search and seizure.

    But make sure you fix the issue with Mass Shootings and Gun violence.

    I'm fine with you messing with the 2nd Amendment. There is a process in place for dealing with amendments to the constitution. Go for it. Good luck.

    I'm sure that the HIPPA(sp?) laws aren't protected by the constitution. Allowing doctors to flag people might help, but be sure not to ignore the 4th Amendment.

    They call it illegal search and seizure because it's illegal.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:05 pm
  • Seahawk wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:You got a vicious circle jerk going on.

    Don't mess with my 2nd amendment rights to have a gun.

    Don't mess with my rights for medical privacy and mental illness disclosure.

    Don't mess with my rights for illegal search and seizure.

    But make sure you fix the issue with Mass Shootings and Gun violence.

    I'm fine with you messing with the 2nd Amendment. There is a process in place for dealing with amendments to the constitution. Go for it. Good luck.

    I'm sure that the HIPPA(sp?) laws aren't protected by the constitution. Allowing doctors to flag people might help, but be sure not to ignore the 4th Amendment.

    They call it illegal search and seizure because it's illegal.


    Even if the person has mental disorders and has made statements to a person that he has weapons and is going to make people pay but has committed no crime yet.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:08 pm
  • Can we as legal, law abiding gun owners just admit that there's a certain number of gun deaths we are willing to accept as long as our access to firearms isn't limited in basically any way? Let's just be honest about it.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:08 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:Even if the person has mental disorders and has made statements to a person that he has weapons and is going to make people pay but has committed no crime yet.

    Plenty of existing laws this would fall under. Back to the discussion of 72hr psych hold and possible involuntary commitment.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:10 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Can we as legal, law abiding gun owners just admit that there's a certain number of gun deaths we are willing to accept as long as our access to firearms isn't limited in basically any way? Let's just be honest about it.


    Edit: Eh, screw it.
    Last edited by Sarlacc83 on Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:12 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:

    Again pmedic with the obtuse comprehension problems. pehawk said access to counseling and after school care, of which I assume would be better than the child going back to whatever broken dysfunctional home they live in, which is what contributed to them growing up and becoming a problem to society.

    He's right;

    Gun owners: "Hey it's not the guns, it's mental illness, lack of family and video games!"

    People who actually offer solutions: "Let's get kids the help they need at a young age then with counseling and other programs that may help their mental well being."

    Gun owners: "I'M NOT PAYING FOR YOUR BABYSITTERS!!"


    Don’t be an ass.

    I already said up thread that exploring ways to help people out of a life of crime was something we should be looking into.

    If you’re going to spout off, at least read enough to be accurate.

    The post your talking about was me messing around, always a good idea engage the brain before putting the mouth in gear.


    So far you said you want a database of our medical records. That's it. So quit acting like you've offered any insight on this specific mental health issue.


    Dude stop.
    Stop twisting words to meet your agenda.

    I never said I wanted that, I’ve never said anything close to that.
    I mentioned it as a possible place to start on the mental health side of this.

    I actually don’t like the idea of my health info being logged into a data base. I’m aware that much of it already is based off of insurance claims but that’s a separate matter.

    My point is/was, you can walk into a Drs office and tell him you are stressed out and thinking about shooting up Pikes market.
    As far as I know, that Dr. is not obligated to report you. Your rights to protected Heath info takes the lead.


    But you told Sgt. Largent you already offered solutions for the mental health angle. Where? The database is the only one I recall.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:13 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Can we as legal, law abiding gun owners just admit that there's a certain number of gun deaths we are willing to accept as long as our access to firearms isn't limited in basically any way? Let's just be honest about it.


    That's what I said like 12 pages ago, ***.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:13 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Can we as legal, law abiding gun owners just admit that there's a certain number of gun deaths we are willing to accept as long as our access to firearms isn't limited in basically any way? Let's just be honest about it.

    False dichotomy, but yes, just as I accept that people will die by assault with hammer, pedestrian accidents, falling off ladders, etc.

    Doesn't mean that it's a desirable outcome or I'm somehow complicit in a murder's actions.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:15 pm
  • JustTheTip wrote:Single age for definition of adult (voting, smoking, drinking, serving in the military, gun ownership, sexual consent, exclusion of your parents in your care decisions, etc. If you aren't old enough for one of these things you aren't old enough for any of them.)

    Eliminate local government gun laws as unconstitutional (state, county, city)

    Eliminate state CCP

    Federal CCP valid anywhere in the US and requiring training and extensive background checks. Renewal required every 2 years.

    Background checks and wait periods for any firearm purchase. No wait period for Federal CCP holders. This includes private sales being required to go through a transfer service.

    Gun Free zones require person by person screening (see airports and stadiums.) Labeling something a gun free zone and not screening everybody who enters the area is absurd.

    Allow other places (without person by person screening) to ban open carry but not concealed carry by people with CCP. Living spaces are exempt, any person can say no guns in their home (should be obvious but nothing really is these days.) In the case of group dwellings this would apply to the unit and not the whole (appartment but not the appartment building for example.)



    This isn’t unreasonable. It uses common sense.

    Having said that, I’ll go back to the 3rd part of my question.

    What impact will it have?
    Even if this was implemented as stated, I predict it wouldn’t have any.
    My prediction is based on this:

    It does nothing to address the guns already in the hands of those prone to committing gun crimes/violence.

    We currently can not prevent a mass shooting from getting a gun if he/she wants one.

    I’m not saying it’s a bad policy, I’m simply stating that our expectations should be very low in terms of preventing anything.


    Gun Free zone?
    This boils down to people (responsible gun owners) policing themselves.
    Here in Texas we have many gun free zones, and business owners can deny entry to those carrying a gun. They can’t and don’t generally screen people but if one is caught the penalty is stiff and you can lose your right to carry.
    Obviously places like court houses have mechanical screening, attempting to bring a gun in could get you shot, and would get you jailed.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:15 pm
  • pehawk wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:Can we as legal, law abiding gun owners just admit that there's a certain number of gun deaths we are willing to accept as long as our access to firearms isn't limited in basically any way? Let's just be honest about it.


    That's what I said like 12 pages ago, ***.


    You and I both.
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Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:18 pm
  • pehawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    Don’t be an ass.

    I already said up thread that exploring ways to help people out of a life of crime was something we should be looking into.

    If you’re going to spout off, at least read enough to be accurate.

    The post your talking about was me messing around, always a good idea engage the brain before putting the mouth in gear.


    So far you said you want a database of our medical records. That's it. So quit acting like you've offered any insight on this specific mental health issue.


    Dude stop.
    Stop twisting words to meet your agenda.

    I never said I wanted that, I’ve never said anything close to that.
    I mentioned it as a possible place to start on the mental health side of this.

    I actually don’t like the idea of my health info being logged into a data base. I’m aware that much of it already is based off of insurance claims but that’s a separate matter.

    My point is/was, you can walk into a Drs office and tell him you are stressed out and thinking about shooting up Pikes market.
    As far as I know, that Dr. is not obligated to report you. Your rights to protected Heath info takes the lead.


    But you told Sgt. Largent you already offered solutions for the mental health angle. Where? The database is the only one I recall.


    I never offered any solutions.

    I suggested things that I thought we would be better served focusing on.


    Edit:
    Personally the only solution to gun deaths of any kind I see is, the elimination of all guns.
    That’s not going to happen even if people that think like me turned all ours in.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:22 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:
    pehawk wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:Can we as legal, law abiding gun owners just admit that there's a certain number of gun deaths we are willing to accept as long as our access to firearms isn't limited in basically any way? Let's just be honest about it.


    That's what I said like 12 pages ago, ***.


    You and I both.

    I don't accept any gun deaths. Access to firearms is a constitutionally protected right and removing that amendment doesn't preclude me from my natural right to defend my life using firearms.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:25 pm
  • pehawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    Enforcement of a law like this isn’t the same as enforcement of a law addressing mass shootings and street level gun violence/crime.
    Sure it could be an issue but if you’re familiar with Drs. and the medical field, you already know that they would like to report and have a place do so, much more than they currently are allowed too.

    Those standards are already established.


    Funding of a data base like this would be fairly nominal in the grand scheme of things ( as long as the politicians were kept away) and easily come from multiple sources.

    Taxes already collected from guns sales.
    Pts medical insurance etc etc.


    What about the uninsured? Lower income who don't have insurance?


    Duh.
    Did you read the part about taxes already collected from gun sales?


    So you want all taxes on gun sales to fund mental health? Us that accurate?


    More twisting of words.

    I never said anything close to that.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:29 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    Duh.
    Did you read the part about taxes already collected from gun sales?




    How is that twisting of words? You're literally quoted as saying that above.
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Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:29 pm
  • Zebulon Dak wrote:Can we as legal, law abiding gun owners just admit that there's a certain number of gun deaths we are willing to accept as long as our access to firearms isn't limited in basically any way? Let's just be honest about it.


    Bait but I’ll take it.

    Absolutely.
    Especially when presented like that.

    I’m also willing to accept a number of deaths to be able to drive a car.

    I’m also willing to accept a number of deaths to be able to take medication.

    I’m willing to accept some deaths to be able to swim in a pool.

    It’s really a crazy question Zeb.


    Edit:
    In terms of numbers only, guns are much safer than cars (motor vehicles)

    Got any idea how many people die every year form medical errors?
    Last edited by pmedic920 on Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    pmedic920
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:32 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:
    So far you said you want a database of our medical records. That's it. So quit acting like you've offered any insight on this specific mental health issue.


    Dude stop.
    Stop twisting words to meet your agenda.

    I never said I wanted that, I’ve never said anything close to that.
    I mentioned it as a possible place to start on the mental health side of this.

    I actually don’t like the idea of my health info being logged into a data base. I’m aware that much of it already is based off of insurance claims but that’s a separate matter.

    My point is/was, you can walk into a Drs office and tell him you are stressed out and thinking about shooting up Pikes market.
    As far as I know, that Dr. is not obligated to report you. Your rights to protected Heath info takes the lead.


    But you told Sgt. Largent you already offered solutions for the mental health angle. Where? The database is the only one I recall.


    I never offered any solutions.

    I suggested things that I thought we would be better served focusing on.


    Edit:
    Personally the only solution to gun deaths of any kind I see is, the elimination of all guns.
    That’s not going to happen even if people that think like me turned all ours in.



    pmedic920 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:What's ironic is 99.999999% of the individuals who point to mental health and a decay of morality/parenting as the reasons for gun violence, are also opposed to anything insuring everyone has access to counseling and/or money for pre-k and after school programs.

    Makes it all come off as BS. Because if you truly cared about mental health and well-being of children you'd certainly be open to some form socialized/affordable healthcare and funding for schools. But, they never are.


    Do we agree that a mass shooter is mentally ill in some fashion?

    Pre-k and after school programs are glorified baby sitting.
    Are you suggesting that the public should be obligated to pay for your/anyone’s babysitting?

    That’s as bad as me suggesting that we sterilize people that can’t afford to raise a child properly.

    I won’t willingly pay for your babysitter but I will shoot her if I see her trying to kill you or your children.

    Lol
    Crap getting deep up in here.



    Again pmedic with the obtuse comprehension problems. pehawk said access to counseling and after school care, of which I assume would be better than the child going back to whatever broken dysfunctional home they live in, which is what contributed to them growing up and becoming a problem to society.

    He's right;

    Gun owners: "Hey it's not the guns, it's mental illness, lack of family and video games!"

    People who actually offer solutions: "Let's get kids the help they need at a young age then with counseling and other programs that may help their mental well being."

    Gun owners: "I'M NOT PAYING FOR YOUR BABYSITTERS!!"


    Don’t be an ass.

    I already said up thread that exploring ways to help people out of a life of crime was something we should be looking into.

    If you’re going to spout off, at least read enough to be accurate.


    The post your talking about was me messing around, always a good idea engage the brain before putting the mouth in gear.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:34 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    Zebulon Dak wrote:Can we as legal, law abiding gun owners just admit that there's a certain number of gun deaths we are willing to accept as long as our access to firearms isn't limited in basically any way? Let's just be honest about it.


    Bait but I’ll take it.

    Absolutely.
    Especially when presented like that.

    I’m also willing to accept a number of deaths to be able to drive a car.

    I’m also willing to accept a number of deaths to be able to take medication.

    I’m willing to accept some deaths to be able to swim in a pool.

    It’s really a crazy question Zeb.


    It's not bait. And there's no need to qualify your answer. I appreciate your honesty.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:35 pm
  • pehawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    Dude stop.
    Stop twisting words to meet your agenda.

    I never said I wanted that, I’ve never said anything close to that.
    I mentioned it as a possible place to start on the mental health side of this.

    I actually don’t like the idea of my health info being logged into a data base. I’m aware that much of it already is based off of insurance claims but that’s a separate matter.

    My point is/was, you can walk into a Drs office and tell him you are stressed out and thinking about shooting up Pikes market.
    As far as I know, that Dr. is not obligated to report you. Your rights to protected Heath info takes the lead.


    But you told Sgt. Largent you already offered solutions for the mental health angle. Where? The database is the only one I recall.


    I never offered any solutions.

    I suggested things that I thought we would be better served focusing on.


    Edit:
    Personally the only solution to gun deaths of any kind I see is, the elimination of all guns.
    That’s not going to happen even if people that think like me turned all ours in.



    pmedic920 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    pmedic920 wrote:
    Do we agree that a mass shooter is mentally ill in some fashion?

    Pre-k and after school programs are glorified baby sitting.
    Are you suggesting that the public should be obligated to pay for your/anyone’s babysitting?

    That’s as bad as me suggesting that we sterilize people that can’t afford to raise a child properly.

    I won’t willingly pay for your babysitter but I will shoot her if I see her trying to kill you or your children.

    Lol
    Crap getting deep up in here.



    Again pmedic with the obtuse comprehension problems. pehawk said access to counseling and after school care, of which I assume would be better than the child going back to whatever broken dysfunctional home they live in, which is what contributed to them growing up and becoming a problem to society.

    He's right;

    Gun owners: "Hey it's not the guns, it's mental illness, lack of family and video games!"

    People who actually offer solutions: "Let's get kids the help they need at a young age then with counseling and other programs that may help their mental well being."

    Gun owners: "I'M NOT PAYING FOR YOUR BABYSITTERS!!"


    Don’t be an ass.

    I already said up thread that exploring ways to help people out of a life of crime was something we should be looking into.

    If you’re going to spout off, at least read enough to be accurate.


    The post your talking about was me messing around, always a good idea engage the brain before putting the mouth in gear.


    And your point?

    I think you’ve lost touch with the conversation.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:51 pm
  • Random but putting it out there.

    On the surface gun death statistics are misleading.

    Generally they include:

    Self inflicted
    Accidental
    Law enforcement justified/unjustified

    They are not limited to homicide/murder.

    Yes, I’m aware that a justified police shooting is technically homicide.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:59 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:Random but putting it out there.

    On the surface gun death statistics are misleading.

    Generally they include:

    Self inflicted
    Accidental
    Law enforcement justified/unjustified

    They are not limited to homicide/murder.

    Yes, I’m aware that a justified police shooting is technically homicide.


    Every comment I've made in this thread has been with all manner of gun deaths in mind. As I said before, I'm not one who believes the "random mass shootings" are the biggest, worst, or most important version of death by firearm. They're just sort of the most sensational and newsworthy, by modern standards.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:02 pm
  • pmedic920 wrote:
    JustTheTip wrote:Single age for definition of adult (voting, smoking, drinking, serving in the military, gun ownership, sexual consent, exclusion of your parents in your care decisions, etc. If you aren't old enough for one of these things you aren't old enough for any of them.)

    Eliminate local government gun laws as unconstitutional (state, county, city)

    Eliminate state CCP

    Federal CCP valid anywhere in the US and requiring training and extensive background checks. Renewal required every 2 years.

    Background checks and wait periods for any firearm purchase. No wait period for Federal CCP holders. This includes private sales being required to go through a transfer service.

    Gun Free zones require person by person screening (see airports and stadiums.) Labeling something a gun free zone and not screening everybody who enters the area is absurd.

    Allow other places (without person by person screening) to ban open carry but not concealed carry by people with CCP. Living spaces are exempt, any person can say no guns in their home (should be obvious but nothing really is these days.) In the case of group dwellings this would apply to the unit and not the whole (appartment but not the appartment building for example.)



    This isn’t unreasonable. It uses common sense.

    Having said that, I’ll go back to the 3rd part of my question.

    What impact will it have?
    Even if this was implemented as stated, I predict it wouldn’t have any.
    My prediction is based on this:

    It does nothing to address the guns already in the hands of those prone to committing gun crimes/violence.

    We currently can not prevent a mass shooting from getting a gun if he/she wants one.

    I’m not saying it’s a bad policy, I’m simply stating that our expectations should be very low in terms of preventing anything.


    Gun Free zone?
    This boils down to people (responsible gun owners) policing themselves.
    Here in Texas we have many gun free zones, and business owners can deny entry to those carrying a gun. They can’t and don’t generally screen people but if one is caught the penalty is stiff and you can lose your right to carry.
    Obviously places like court houses have mechanical screening, attempting to bring a gun in could get you shot, and would get you jailed.


    At the very least it will keep discussions and legislation at the federal level and neuter the attempt by Bloomberg and others to start a lot of little fires because they know they can't all be extinguished. People complain about the NRA have politicians in their pockets but turn a blind eye to what happened with 1639.

    As far as harsh penalties for entering a gun-free zone with a gun, that is useless. Law-abiding gun owners will leave their guns at home leaving them open to the criminal or lunatic who could give a rats ass about what the penalty is for entering a gun-free zone with a gun. Unless you screen each person entering a controlled area, gun-free zone only makes people vulnerable.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 4:49 pm
  • Seahawk wrote:Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    It was put in place partly because the British were disarming them to control them from the fight for independence.
    The current call to disarm all Americans because of a tiny fraction of spree killers is loopy at best and reminds us of how the British tried to control them way back then.


    Did someone here say they 'hate' the 2nd Amendment?

    You do realize the Constitution wasn't written until the War of Independence was over....right?

    Who on here has called for a '...call to disarm all Americans...?

    How many times in this thread have we heard that same claim? But no one has shown a significant number of times it's been said? Why is that?

    Ok, I'll bite what happened with 1639? The NRA is fighting it in court?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:48 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    It was put in place partly because the British were disarming them to control them from the fight for independence.
    The current call to disarm all Americans because of a tiny fraction of spree killers is loopy at best and reminds us of how the British tried to control them way back then.


    Did someone here say they 'hate' the 2nd Amendment?

    You do realize the Constitution wasn't written until the War of Independence was over....right?

    Who on here has called for a '...call to disarm all Americans...?

    How many times in this thread have we heard that same claim? But no one has shown a significant number of times it's been said? Why is that?

    Ok, I'll bite what happened with 1639? The NRA is fighting it in court?



    Despite it failing to meet state constitutional requirements for signature gathering it was certified for the ballot. Also funded at over 6 to 1 versus the opposition by a few billionaires making the point that the government is not (only) in the pockets of the NRA. Lobbying and campaign funding is yet another major problem that needs to be addressed.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:09 pm
  • JustTheTip wrote:
    LymonHawk wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    It was put in place partly because the British were disarming them to control them from the fight for independence.
    The current call to disarm all Americans because of a tiny fraction of spree killers is loopy at best and reminds us of how the British tried to control them way back then.


    Did someone here say they 'hate' the 2nd Amendment?

    You do realize the Constitution wasn't written until the War of Independence was over....right?

    Who on here has called for a '...call to disarm all Americans...?

    How many times in this thread have we heard that same claim? But no one has shown a significant number of times it's been said? Why is that?

    Ok, I'll bite what happened with 1639? The NRA is fighting it in court?



    Despite it failing to meet state constitutional requirements for signature gathering it was certified for the ballot. Also funded at over 6 to 1 versus the opposition by a few billionaires making the point that the government is not (only) in the pockets of the NRA. Lobbying and campaign funding is yet another major problem that needs to be addressed.


    Is this what you're talking about? https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... er-ballot/

    So Paul Allen donated $1 Mil to the initiative. Are you anti PA?
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:30 pm
  • Been meaning to ask you gun owners, with all due respect:

    Image

    Asking for a friend.

    :twisted:
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:39 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:
    JustTheTip wrote:
    LymonHawk wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    It was put in place partly because the British were disarming them to control them from the fight for independence.
    The current call to disarm all Americans because of a tiny fraction of spree killers is loopy at best and reminds us of how the British tried to control them way back then.


    Did someone here say they 'hate' the 2nd Amendment?

    You do realize the Constitution wasn't written until the War of Independence was over....right?

    Who on here has called for a '...call to disarm all Americans...?

    How many times in this thread have we heard that same claim? But no one has shown a significant number of times it's been said? Why is that?

    Ok, I'll bite what happened with 1639? The NRA is fighting it in court?



    Despite it failing to meet state constitutional requirements for signature gathering it was certified for the ballot. Also funded at over 6 to 1 versus the opposition by a few billionaires making the point that the government is not (only) in the pockets of the NRA. Lobbying and campaign funding is yet another major problem that needs to be addressed.


    Is this what you're talking about? https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... er-ballot/

    So Paul Allen donated $1 Mil to the initiative. Are you anti PA?



    As most people know, Paul Allen had a huge collection of fully functioning military items including real tanks, fighter jets and other vehicles. It's ok for him to own, and enjoy these legit weapons of war, but he frowned upon others owning a simple semi automatic rifle.

    He was a collector, and many guys like myself are collectors.
    He considered it a hobby, I consider it a hobby.
    In the wrong hands, his hobby could have killed people. In the wrong hands, mine can as well.

    Mine are bad, but his were are ok because he had billions of dollars.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:01 pm
  • Mass shootings are different, and need to be treated with more importance than the other kinds. As weapons become more and more powerful, and capable of more and more destruction, getting them into the wrong hands is what is going to give these acts of violence the power to level massive amounts of people. While other kinds may claim more lives now, we need to make sure mass killing numbers don’t escalate. And they are, at alarming levels. We need to do something before it’s too late. The second amendment has us on a slippery slope. People were never designed to own anything more than muskets. Definitely not ARs. That’s ridiculous. Who would think a good idea to allow humans to actually own these? I wonder what bad coulld possibly happen? But whatever it takes for people to be able to have collections or play 3-gun, I guess.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:03 pm

Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:03 pm
  • And an opposing government coming to oppress people is a lot different reason than banning guns because innocents are getting mowed down. Who would make that comparison? Jesus.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:06 pm
  • Tical21 wrote:Mass shootings are different, and need to be treated with more importance than the other kinds. As weapons become more and more powerful, and capable of more and more destruction, getting them into the wrong hands is what is going to give these acts of violence the power to level massive amounts of people. .



    Why are Mass shootings different, and why are they so much more important? More people are killed each year by non "mass shooting" gun violence, than someone shooting groups of people with a firearm. ALL gun violence is a concern, from some kid shooting up a mall to the kids running around Chicago shooting 50+ on a weekend.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:15 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:206: What? Is this what you're talking about? https://www.king5.com/article/news/loca ... -604970809

    Maybe I missed it, but where does 1639 ban all assault weapons?



    He donated $1million to I1639
    He donated $500k to I594, then turned around and bought a $2.5 million dollar tank.
    He has also said in past interviews when asked about his donations, that he doesn't see a need for a civilian to own a "military style rifle" and wants to put tougher restrictions or banning future sales of them in place.
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:30 pm
  • LymonHawk wrote:
    Seahawk wrote:Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    It was put in place partly because the British were disarming them to control them from the fight for independence.
    The current call to disarm all Americans because of a tiny fraction of spree killers is loopy at best and reminds us of how the British tried to control them way back then.


    Did someone here say they 'hate' the 2nd Amendment?

    You do realize the Constitution wasn't written until the War of Independence was over....right?

    Who on here has called for a '...call to disarm all Americans...?

    How many times in this thread have we heard that same claim? But no one has shown a significant number of times it's been said? Why is that?

    Ok, I'll bite what happened with 1639? The NRA is fighting it in court?

    Here's what I'm referring to when I said Stop the hate on the 2nd Amendment.
    I said it because it shows anti-American anti-Patriot bias:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:So this tells me medic that you are either not reading my posts (or Tical's), or being obtuse on purpose in order to stay on your 2nd Amendment high horse, because stepping even one foot closer to logical solutions would do what? Not sure, only you can answer that.

    chris98251 wrote:The question comes down to how much or how many lives be lost to maintain current status quo, 1, 10, 100, 1000,10,000, 100,000 1,000,000, 10,000,000. Pretty sure we are closer to the Million and 10 million levels over time since the 2nd amendment.

    LymonHawk wrote:You do realize the Constitution wasn't written until the War of Independence was over....right?

    That's great you know when that happened. I was pointing out why. How do you miss that and have to comment on it?!!

    Look, try and keep up. This thread is 20+ pages long and nobody appreciates having to go back and clarify their statements.

    For the most part, this has been a real good back and forth discussion and while I'm not sure how much moderation has take place, I think we've been reasonable.

    If you are an anti-gunner and you're in a thread about Mass Shootings, I'm gonna share with you why you might feel like your comments are being ignored or you may feel disrespected in your opinions by pro-gunners.

    1) If you say or type anything about "Assault Weapon", "Assault Rifle", "Assault-style" then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or OP Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    Nobody has an Assault Rifle. They are already banned for the public. Only the Military has them. They have select fire "switches" that change from 1 bullet per trigger pull, to 3 bullets per trigger pull, to all bullets per trigger pull(full-auto). There may be other configurations, with different bullet counts but I'm not aware of them. The AR-15 is not an Assault Rifle. AR stands for ArmaLite Rifle. It only shoots 1 bullet per trigger pull and that's it. It's called semi-automatic, just like non-revolver pistols(Glock, Beretta, etc). If you tell me your uncle's cousin's neighbor has an Assault Rifle, ant it's true, then that person has a special license, went through extra background checks with the federal government and paid extra $$$ on top of the price of the actual rifle to get it. That person is not somebody you need to fear.

    2) If you say that 30,000 people are killed by guns every year, then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    That is Fake News Media/Bloomberg/Anti-gunner talk that includes Suicides which make up 20,000 or 2/3rds of that number and has nothing to do with Mass Shootings. The 10,000 remaining are All firearms murders and Rifles are only 1/4th of that total and so when you call for a ban on AR-15's you are ignored because they are Not the 75% choice in Mass Shootings(hand guns).

    3) If you don't know what an FFL is, then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    A Federal Firearms License is required for all firearm transfers between anyone but close family(I live in Washington State and I-1639 made this so). For people outside Washington State, there may still exist private sales transactions that no law can enforce, but purchase from an actual Gun Store will use an FFL which does a NICS check or more. I-1639 is not even enforceable for this provision but, of course, law abiding gun owners will follow the law and criminals will not.

    4) If you believe Twitter has accurate statistics about Global Mass Shootings, then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    The Twitter post that showed Zero shootings for every country but USA was a lie. Here is truth. You probably wont believe it if it doesn't match your bias or agenda and it's not even from Fox News:
    "Of the 97 countries where we identified mass public shootings, the U.S. ranks 64th per capita in its rate of attacks and 65th in fatalities." Source(chicagotribune.com):https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-mass-shooters-russia-public-shootings-thousand-oaks-mercy-hospital-chicago-1121-story.html

    5) If you think what I've said above is not verifiable by a quick search of fbi.gov then you are lazy and don't really care about anything but "guns are bad", then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    The Fake News Media cherry picks data from that very same fbi.gov report and hopes you don't go look at the report and see that for yourselves.

    6) If you think the 2nd Amendment refers to Militia meaning "an army or group of like minded gunners", then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    When the 2nd Amendment was written, Militia meant "Any Able Bodied Man" and not today's interpretation of the word Militia, i.e.; State Militia, Naval Militia, National Guard.

    7) If you think the 2nd Amendment refers to Well-Regulated meaning "rules and regulations", then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    When the 2nd Amendment was written, well-regulated meant "In good working order" and not today's interpretation of "rules and regulations".

    8) If you don't know why the 2nd Amendment is the only one that says "shall not be infringed", then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    Infringing on a Right that is recognized by the U.S Constitution just makes you a really bad person, anti-American and anti-Patriot. OK, that might be more opinion than my other points but really, c'mon man.

    9) If you think the "Bill of Rights" is a "Bill of Needs" (you don't NEED a gun), then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    Seriously, it's not the "Bill of Needs"

    10) If you use the term "Common Sense Gun Laws", then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    None of those laws ever employ common sense and don't save not even 1 life and only end up making it harder for lawful people to obtain guns and certainly don't affect criminals bent on shooting up a school/mall.

    ... and finally! I know for most of you TLDR but...

    11) If you claim that pro-gunners don't want to compromise an anything, then the pro-gunner is going to ignore anything you say because you are an uneducated person that doesn't belong in an adult conversation about anything related to guns or Mass Shootings.

    Because:
    Here is a story on Compromise that I copied from some pro-gun website that has some truth to it:
    Let's say I have this cake. It is a very nice cake, with "GUN RIGHTS" written across the top in lovely floral icing. Along you come and say, "Give me that cake."

    I say, "No, it's my cake."

    You say, "Let's compromise. Give me half." I respond by asking what I get out of this compromise, and you reply that I get to keep half of my cake.

    Okay, we compromise. Let us call this compromise The National Firearms Act of 1934.

    This leaves me with half of my cake and there I am, enjoying my cake when you walk back up and say, "Give me that cake."

    I say -- again: "No, it's my cake."

    You say, "Let's compromise." What do I get out of this compromise? Why, I get to keep half of what's left of the cake I already own.

    So, we compromise -- let us call this one the Gun Control Act of 1968 -- and this time I'm left holding what is now just a quarter of my cake.

    And I'm sitting in the corner with my quarter piece of cake, and here you come again. You want my cake. Again.

    This time you take several bites -- we'll call this compromise the Clinton Executive Orders -- and I'm left with about a tenth of what has always been MY DAMN CAKE and you've got nine-tenths of it.

    Let me restate that: I started out with MY CAKE and you have already 'compromised' me out of ninety percent of MY CAKE ...

    ... and here you come again. Compromise! ... Lautenberg Act (nibble, nibble). Compromise! ... The HUD/Smith and Wesson agreement (nibble, nibble). Compromise! ... The Brady Law (NOM NOM NOM). Compromise! ... The School Safety and Law Enforcement Improvement Act (sweet tap-dancing Freyja, my finger!)

    After every one of these "compromises" -- in which I lose rights and you lose NOTHING -- I'm left holding crumbs of what was once a large and satisfying cake, and you're standing there with most of MY CAKE, making anime eyes and whining about being "reasonable", and wondering "why we won't compromise" as you try for the rest of my cake.

    In 1933 I -- or any other American -- could buy a fully-automatic Thompson sub-machine gun, a 20mm anti-tank gun, or shorten the barrel of any gun I owned to any length I thought fit, silence any gun I owned, and a host of other things.

    Come your "compromise" in 1934, and suddenly I can't buy a sub-machine gun, a silencer, or a Short-Barreled Firearm without .Gov permission and paying a hefty tax. What the hell did y'all lose in this "compromise"?

    In 1967 I, or any other American, could buy or sell firearms anywhere we felt like it, in any State we felt like, with no restrictions. We "compromised" in 1968, and suddenly I've got to have a Federal Firearms License to have a business involving firearms, and there's whole bunch of rules limiting what, where and how I buy or sell guns.

    In 1968, "sporting purpose" -- a term found NOT ANY DAMNED WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION, TO SAY NOTHING OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT -- suddenly became a legal reason to prevent the importation of guns that had been freely imported in 1967.

    Tell me, do -- exactly what the hell did you lose in this 1968 "compromise"?

    The Lautenberg Act was a "compromise" which suddenly deprived Americans of a Constitutional Right for being accused or convicted of a misdemeanor -- a bloody MISDEMEANOR! What did your side lose in this "compromise"?

    I could go on and on, but the plain and simple truth of the matter is that a genuine "compromise" means that both sides give up something. My side of the discussion has been giving, giving, and giving yet more -- and your side has been taking, taking, and now wants to take more.

    For you, "compromise" means you'll take half of my cake now, and the other half of my cake next time. Always has been, always will be.

    I've got news for you: That is not "compromise".

    I'm done with being reasonable, and I'm done with "compromise". Nothing about gun control in this country has ever been "reasonable" nor a genuine "compromise", and I have flat had enough.
    Seahawk
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 179
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:37 pm
  • 2_0_6 wrote:
    Tical21 wrote:Mass shootings are different, and need to be treated with more importance than the other kinds. As weapons become more and more powerful, and capable of more and more destruction, getting them into the wrong hands is what is going to give these acts of violence the power to level massive amounts of people. .



    Why are Mass shootings different, and why are they so much more important? More people are killed each year by non "mass shooting" gun violence, than someone shooting groups of people with a firearm. ALL gun violence is a concern, from some kid shooting up a mall to the kids running around Chicago shooting 50+ on a weekend.

    For reasons I explained further in the post. The numbers dying from single incidents rise. Soon, the population will have access to weapons that can kill many more quickly. Eventually, thousands or tens of thousands.

    I’m not saying the others aren’t important. Just that random mass killings are becoming more popular and more deadly at an alarming rate.
    .
    Tical21
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4363
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Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:42 pm
  • please tell me that was a cut-and-paste job.
    Zebulon Dak
    * The Producer *
     
    Posts: 17060
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    Location: King In The North


Re: Mass Shootings
Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:22 pm
  • Technology can solve this problem. There is no doubt in my mind that the data trail of those who commit mass murders can be identified and will only get more accurate as AI technology get smarter. Monitor all audio from alexa's to iphones, every online search, every google searched word can be detected by the government if they choose to do so. Just like they do with terrorists, they can keep a close eye on the psycho's who are considering mass murder. I'm an innocent person and have no issues with them monitoring my every digital move but don't remove my right to own guns.
    Wenhawk
    .NET Owner
     
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