Joker (Spoilers in thread)

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Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:59 am
  • Saw this on Saturday, man what a movie. Well shot, well written, and carried by Joaquin. The guy eats up every scene he's in and is very deserving of an Oscar.
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Re: Joker
Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:46 pm
  • I want to have seen it, but I'm not sure I actually want to sit through it and watch it.
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Re: Joker
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:39 am
  • I saw it and really liked it. Phoenix's performance was amazing and a large part of my enjoyment. There was a police presence at the theater that isn't normally there, however, they were standing outside of the theater showing Judy. Unless there was the threat of munchkin violence, I think there was a miscommunication somewhere.
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Re: Joker
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:47 am
  • Seanhawk wrote:I saw it and really liked it. Phoenix's performance was amazing and a large part of my enjoyment. There was a police presence at the theater that isn't normally there, however, they were standing outside of the theater showing Judy. Unless there was the threat of munchkin violence, I think there was a miscommunication somewhere.


    Because CNN and the other wokescolds tried to sabotage it saying it was quote: "invidious validation of the white-male resentment" and that "it glorifies a killer and could encourage copycat attacks." In other words, CNN blasted hype that there was a danger or racist lunatics being violent because of the movie and police had to respond. Everyone else thought it was just a good movie.
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Re: Joker
Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:47 pm
  • Have not seen it but read reviews and they are saying it is great and that Phoenix is going to get a Oscar Nomination for it.
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Re: Joker
Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:29 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:Have not seen it but read reviews and they are saying it is great and that Phoenix is going to get a Oscar Nomination for it.

    He always seems to be very good in any movie I have seen him in..
    I knew he'd be great for that role just like he played Cash..A rare
    actor in todays world.
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Re: Joker
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:02 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:Have not seen it but read reviews and they are saying it is great and that Phoenix is going to get a Oscar Nomination for it.


    Maybe, these type of utlra violent movies don't usually sit well with the new age of woke Hollywood Oscar voters.
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Re: Joker
Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:50 pm
  • Sick and twisted movie, just how you would expect joker to be. Worth a watch for sure.
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Re: Joker
Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:51 pm
  • Oh. My. God.

    What a film. I consider it to be amazing, but a good part of the reason why is not for anything that a lot of people will even recognize.


    SPOILERS:


    So...This Joker film takes place in 1981. That is not a coincidence. It is a direct reference to former President Reagan's repeal of the Mental Health Systems Act and pushing through the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act in 1981. One of the things this did was put the responsibility for mental health care on the states, and created federal grants for states for mental health care, but also a bunch of other things. Mental health budgets then had a much lower amount of money than was needed to maintain the same level of care. The fallout is sad, outrageous, and predictable. The fact that this poor man with mental health problems, who becomes the Joker, was a victim of the treatment center he was regularly going to losing funding and shutting down is a brilliant plot point and piece of writing.

    38 years later and we're seeing the negative effects of that legislation, particularly in the PNW. This is a fictitious film that makes some excellent nonfiction points in the real world of 2019 America. It sickens me that the politicians in Seattle continue to throw money at "helping" the homeless in ways that do seemingly everything under the sun except things that help the homeless actually not be homeless anymore.

    Everyone owes it to themselves to see this film.
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Re: Joker
Tue Oct 08, 2019 11:47 pm
  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:
    Seanhawk wrote:I saw it and really liked it. Phoenix's performance was amazing and a large part of my enjoyment. There was a police presence at the theater that isn't normally there, however, they were standing outside of the theater showing Judy. Unless there was the threat of munchkin violence, I think there was a miscommunication somewhere.


    Because CNN and the other wokescolds tried to sabotage it saying it was quote: "invidious validation of the white-male resentment" and that "it glorifies a killer and could encourage copycat attacks." In other words, CNN blasted hype that there was a danger or racist lunatics being violent because of the movie and police had to respond. Everyone else thought it was just a good movie.


    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Have not seen it but read reviews and they are saying it is great and that Phoenix is going to get a Oscar Nomination for it.


    Maybe, these type of utlra violent movies don't usually sit well with the new age of woke Hollywood Oscar voters.



    What the hell are you two talking about? What is YOUR definitions for that term and where in the world did you get it? :| :?
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Re: Joker
Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:56 am
  • hgwellz12 wrote:
    Seahawk Sailor wrote:
    Seanhawk wrote:I saw it and really liked it. Phoenix's performance was amazing and a large part of my enjoyment. There was a police presence at the theater that isn't normally there, however, they were standing outside of the theater showing Judy. Unless there was the threat of munchkin violence, I think there was a miscommunication somewhere.


    Because CNN and the other wokescolds tried to sabotage it saying it was quote: "invidious validation of the white-male resentment" and that "it glorifies a killer and could encourage copycat attacks." In other words, CNN blasted hype that there was a danger or racist lunatics being violent because of the movie and police had to respond. Everyone else thought it was just a good movie.


    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Have not seen it but read reviews and they are saying it is great and that Phoenix is going to get a Oscar Nomination for it.


    Maybe, these type of utlra violent movies don't usually sit well with the new age of woke Hollywood Oscar voters.



    What the hell are you two talking about? What is YOUR definitions for that term and where in the world did you get it? :| :?


    Have you paid attention to what's been going on at the Oscars?

    Not to take this in a political direction, but all you have to do is look up what's been nominated over the past decade, and more importantly what's won and you'll see what we're talking about.

    I haven't seen Joker, but I'm sure Phoenix is incredible, dude's an amazing actor............but with all the negative press over the violence of the movie, I wouldn't hold your breath that he or the movie sees any nominations. If you want to get nominated, you better come strong with the diversity, preachy politics or good vibes.
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Re: Joker
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:17 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:Oh. My. God.

    What a film. I consider it to be amazing, but a good part of the reason why is not for anything that a lot of people will even recognize.


    SPOILERS:


    So...This Joker film takes place in 1981. That is not a coincidence. It is a direct reference to former President Reagan's repeal of the Mental Health Systems Act and pushing through the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act in 1981. One of the things this did was put the responsibility for mental health care on the states, and created federal grants for states for mental health care, but also a bunch of other things. Mental health budgets then had a much lower amount of money than was needed to maintain the same level of care. The fallout is sad, outrageous, and predictable. The fact that this poor man with mental health problems, who becomes the Joker, was a victim of the treatment center he was regularly going to losing funding and shutting down is a brilliant plot point and piece of writing.

    38 years later and we're seeing the negative effects of that legislation, particularly in the PNW. This is a fictitious film that makes some excellent nonfiction points in the real world of 2019 America. It sickens me that the politicians in Seattle continue to throw money at "helping" the homeless in ways that do seemingly everything under the sun except things that help the homeless actually not be homeless anymore.

    Everyone owes it to themselves to see this film.


    Yeah I wonder if they have figured out that shutting down mental health facilities and ramp up of the Homeless has any correlation yet.

    I know they shut down another three facilities like last year due to funding.
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Re: Joker
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:20 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hgwellz12 wrote:
    Seahawk Sailor wrote:
    Seanhawk wrote:I saw it and really liked it. Phoenix's performance was amazing and a large part of my enjoyment. There was a police presence at the theater that isn't normally there, however, they were standing outside of the theater showing Judy. Unless there was the threat of munchkin violence, I think there was a miscommunication somewhere.


    Because CNN and the other wokescolds tried to sabotage it saying it was quote: "invidious validation of the white-male resentment" and that "it glorifies a killer and could encourage copycat attacks." In other words, CNN blasted hype that there was a danger or racist lunatics being violent because of the movie and police had to respond. Everyone else thought it was just a good movie.


    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    chris98251 wrote:Have not seen it but read reviews and they are saying it is great and that Phoenix is going to get a Oscar Nomination for it.


    Maybe, these type of utlra violent movies don't usually sit well with the new age of woke Hollywood Oscar voters.



    What the hell are you two talking about? What is YOUR definitions for that term and where in the world did you get it? :| :?


    Have you paid attention to what's been going on at the Oscars?

    Not to take this in a political direction, but all you have to do is look up what's been nominated over the past decade, and more importantly what's won and you'll see what we're talking about.

    I haven't seen Joker, but I'm sure Phoenix is incredible, dude's an amazing actor............but with all the negative press over the violence of the movie, I wouldn't hold your breath that he or the movie sees any nominations. If you want to get nominated, you better come strong with the diversity, preachy politics or good vibes.




    I totally get all of that. Still not sure why you two are using the term 'woke' in that context tho.
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Re: Joker
Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:09 pm
  • hgwellz12 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hgwellz12 wrote:
    Seahawk Sailor wrote:
    Because CNN and the other wokescolds tried to sabotage it saying it was quote: "invidious validation of the white-male resentment" and that "it glorifies a killer and could encourage copycat attacks." In other words, CNN blasted hype that there was a danger or racist lunatics being violent because of the movie and police had to respond. Everyone else thought it was just a good movie.


    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Maybe, these type of utlra violent movies don't usually sit well with the new age of woke Hollywood Oscar voters.



    What the hell are you two talking about? What is YOUR definitions for that term and where in the world did you get it? :| :?


    Have you paid attention to what's been going on at the Oscars?

    Not to take this in a political direction, but all you have to do is look up what's been nominated over the past decade, and more importantly what's won and you'll see what we're talking about.

    I haven't seen Joker, but I'm sure Phoenix is incredible, dude's an amazing actor............but with all the negative press over the violence of the movie, I wouldn't hold your breath that he or the movie sees any nominations. If you want to get nominated, you better come strong with the diversity, preachy politics or good vibes.




    I totally get all of that. Still not sure why you two are using the term 'woke' in that context tho.


    What context should we be using it? IMO the word fits perfectly into what we're discussing................Hollywood wanting to be progressive and diverse in who they nominate and vote for.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:36 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:Yeah I wonder if they have figured out that shutting down mental health facilities and ramp up of the Homeless has any correlation yet.

    I know they shut down another three facilities like last year due to funding.

    God knows it couldn't possibly have any correlation to mass shooting perpetrators, either.
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Re: Joker
Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:13 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hgwellz12 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    hgwellz12 wrote:



    What the hell are you two talking about? What is YOUR definitions for that term and where in the world did you get it? :| :?


    Have you paid attention to what's been going on at the Oscars?

    Not to take this in a political direction, but all you have to do is look up what's been nominated over the past decade, and more importantly what's won and you'll see what we're talking about.

    I haven't seen Joker, but I'm sure Phoenix is incredible, dude's an amazing actor............but with all the negative press over the violence of the movie, I wouldn't hold your breath that he or the movie sees any nominations. If you want to get nominated, you better come strong with the diversity, preachy politics or good vibes.




    I totally get all of that. Still not sure why you two are using the term 'woke' in that context tho.


    What context should we be using it? IMO the word fits perfectly into what we're discussing................Hollywood wanting to be progressive and diverse in who they nominate and vote for.


    Just double checking that THAT is what woke means to you. Funny $h!t.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:26 pm
  • I just have to say, after having seen the movie, anyone afraid of it inspiring violence missed the point of the film about as badly as anyone who would actually be inspired to violence by it. At no point did I feel it endorsed Arthur Fleck's actions. Was he treated sympathetically? Certainly, but that suggests to me a message that we could all afford to be more compassionate. We're too ready as a society to ignore and degrade people we think are beneath us, for whatever reason. Arthur was undoubtedly a sick man, but a man who was left to fall into the cracks and snapped because of it. No, I don't think that excuses his actions, but that doesn't mean help couldn't have prevented them. It also does a fairly good job of condemning mob mentality.

    Of course, I could just be talking out my ass, but that's what I took away. Also, Joaquin Phoenix deserves an Oscar nomination for his performance.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:39 am
  • All the negative press did was boost the movie's earnings.

    I agree with Maulbert...as an audience member, I never identified with the Fleck character. The movie successfully walked the fine line between teaching us a lesson and blaming society for the consequences of failing to learn it.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:03 pm
  • Literature has plenty of examples of "Sympathy for the Devil" type stories, where the villain is the "hero" of the story. Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita, Joe Hill's Horns, etc. Like they say, everyone is a hero in his own story.

    And we do not identify with these characters as much as we are made to understand them and empathize with them even as we see that they are villains. The Joker is no different. The only difference is that Real Journalists™ want some people to identify with them and act out on that identity because horrific news causes clicks and views.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:26 pm
  • Saw Joker over the weekend.

    While EXTREMELY creepy, violent and disturbing, I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially Phoenix. IMO his performance in Joker is on par with DeNiro in Taxi Driver for sheer depth of character and acting.

    So good in fact that for most of the movie you forget this is even about a comic book character.

    I will stand by my comments above though, I'd be shocked if Phoenix gets any love from the Academy or critics come award season. I just looked up Joker on Rotten Tomatoes and it's sitting at 68% with the critics, which tells me most critics just can't get past the violence. Too bad, because Phoenix and the movie as a whole deserves more love than it's getting critically.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:20 pm
  • Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach, critique.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:43 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Saw Joker over the weekend.

    While EXTREMELY creepy, violent and disturbing, I thoroughly enjoyed it, especially Phoenix. IMO his performance in Joker is on par with DeNiro in Taxi Driver for sheer depth of character and acting.

    So good in fact that for most of the movie you forget this is even about a comic book character.

    I will stand by my comments above though, I'd be shocked if Phoenix gets any love from the Academy or critics come award season. I just looked up Joker on Rotten Tomatoes and it's sitting at 68% with the critics, which tells me most critics just can't get past the violence. Too bad, because Phoenix and the movie as a whole deserves more love than it's getting critically.


    Honestly, there are way, way more violent moments on critically acclaimed TV shows, which is so confusing why it's getting this backlash. I saw one reviewer say how they cannot recommend it to anyone because the violence is so over the top it's unwatchable and they scored it an F. There's one tough scene to watch and GOT, Boardwalk, Black Sails, etc all have much worse violence. $h!t, the Leftovers show an old woman get stoned to death, slowly. Walking Dead had two main characters get their skulls caved in with a baseball bat and that show is aimed at caaasual TV viewers.

    Joaquin deserves awards for leading male actor, the composer deserves the win for best soundtrack, and the cinematography/writing is top notch. It deserves much better acclaim than it is getting from the smug self fart smelling critics who instantly wrote it off as some incel angry white male power trip spurring violence (not trying to bring politics at all into this, just seen it as a common theme in reviews).

    Story is much more about mental health and what happens when someone finally gets pushed too far without any form of support. And eventually likes the feeling they get with their actions. I'm on the fence about a sequel because the director/Joaquin both said this was shot as a one off movie but because of how successful it was, are in the brainstorming stages to see if a new story can be told. I think the powers involved could craft a solid world.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:57 pm
  • The claims of disturbing violence in Joker are definitely total BS. It's a media narrative that repetition is making people believe, just like ESPN getting Andrew Luck into the Hall of Fame a year before he was even drafted into the NFL.

    It's honestly pretty annoying to witness...
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:19 pm
  • RolandDeschain wrote:The claims of disturbing violence in Joker are definitely total BS. It's a media narrative that repetition is making people believe, just like ESPN getting Andrew Luck into the Hall of Fame a year before he was even drafted into the NFL.

    It's honestly pretty annoying to witness...


    Did they watch Saving Private Ryan? Hacksaw Ridge? Joaquin has a much more violent movie called you were never really here that came out only a year before (also excellent if you haven't seen it).

    I just don't understand this moral platform they're randomly deciding to stand on for violence. Movies are supposed to elicit emotions. Heath Ledgers joker killed a lot more people than this movie did....It's not like any of the people who died are inherently 'good guys'.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:16 pm
  • mistaowen wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:The claims of disturbing violence in Joker are definitely total BS. It's a media narrative that repetition is making people believe, just like ESPN getting Andrew Luck into the Hall of Fame a year before he was even drafted into the NFL.

    It's honestly pretty annoying to witness...


    Did they watch Saving Private Ryan? Hacksaw Ridge? Joaquin has a much more violent movie called you were never really here that came out only a year before (also excellent if you haven't seen it).

    I just don't understand this moral platform they're randomly deciding to stand on for violence. Movies are supposed to elicit emotions. Heath Ledgers joker killed a lot more people than this movie did....It's not like any of the people who died are inherently 'good guys'.


    It's because they're trying, and failing, I might add, to use it as a political tool. I read an article about the media's overreaction to Joker that mentioned that within hours of John Lennon's murder, a reporter asked Robert Altman if he felt responsible for his death:

    After John Lennon was shot, the film director Robert Altman’s phone rang.

    “I get a call immediately from the Washington Post,” Altman later recalled, “and they said, ‘Do you feel responsible for this?’ And I said, ‘What do you mean responsible?’ ‘Well, I mean you’re the one that predicted there would be a political assassination of a star.’” Five years earlier, Altman’s film Nashville had reached a climax when a country singer was shot at a political rally. Nashville; it turned out, had nothing to do with the warped thinking of Lennon’s killer, Mark David Chapman, who modeled himself after Holden Caulfield and thought Lennon was a phony and a hypocrite.


    The media is just setting Joker up so they can say, " I TOLD YOU SO!" after the next tragedy. Never mind the fact that the media is far more guilty of incitement than any movie ever could be.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:16 am
  • RolandDeschain wrote:The claims of disturbing violence in Joker are definitely total BS. It's a media narrative that repetition is making people believe, just like ESPN getting Andrew Luck into the Hall of Fame a year before he was even drafted into the NFL.

    It's honestly pretty annoying to witness...



    Well I'm not violence prude, but smothering your mom to death, shooting a talk show host in the face point blank and stabbing your co-worker in the neck in a bloody rage is pretty disturbing.

    Btw, read some of the critic reviews and it's not just the violence, it's also the new woke #metoo female critics complaining about "oh here we go again, it's mom's fault" you're like this.

    Phoenix has already said he doesn't care if Joker isn't critically received, he and Phillips knew this movie wasn't going to go over well with some, and that's fine he's very proud of the work he did.

    So that's enough for me, I just don't like this trend that we can't say of make anything controversial, it all has to go through the exhausting network of those who now hold themselves up as some beacon of what's acceptable as entertainment.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:31 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:The claims of disturbing violence in Joker are definitely total BS. It's a media narrative that repetition is making people believe, just like ESPN getting Andrew Luck into the Hall of Fame a year before he was even drafted into the NFL.

    It's honestly pretty annoying to witness...



    Well I'm not violence prude, but smothering your mom to death, shooting a talk show host in the face point blank and stabbing your co-worker in the neck in a bloody rage is pretty disturbing.

    Btw, read some of the critic reviews and it's not just the violence, it's also the new woke #metoo female critics complaining about "oh here we go again, it's mom's fault" you're like this.

    Phoenix has already said he doesn't care if Joker isn't critically received, he and Phillips knew this movie wasn't going to go over well with some, and that's fine he's very proud of the work he did.

    So that's enough for me, I just don't like this trend that we can't say of make anything controversial, it all has to go through the exhausting network of those who now hold themselves up as some beacon of what's acceptable as entertainment.


    Just think if the Godfather series or in Cold Blood were made today.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:42 am
  • chris98251 wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:The claims of disturbing violence in Joker are definitely total BS. It's a media narrative that repetition is making people believe, just like ESPN getting Andrew Luck into the Hall of Fame a year before he was even drafted into the NFL.

    It's honestly pretty annoying to witness...



    Well I'm not violence prude, but smothering your mom to death, shooting a talk show host in the face point blank and stabbing your co-worker in the neck in a bloody rage is pretty disturbing.

    Btw, read some of the critic reviews and it's not just the violence, it's also the new woke #metoo female critics complaining about "oh here we go again, it's mom's fault" you're like this.

    Phoenix has already said he doesn't care if Joker isn't critically received, he and Phillips knew this movie wasn't going to go over well with some, and that's fine he's very proud of the work he did.

    So that's enough for me, I just don't like this trend that we can't say of make anything controversial, it all has to go through the exhausting network of those who now hold themselves up as some beacon of what's acceptable as entertainment.


    Just think if the Godfather series or in Cold Blood were made today.


    That's my point, movies haven't changed, pu$$y Hollywood and critics have.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:02 am
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Well I'm not violence prude, but smothering your mom to death, shooting a talk show host in the face point blank and stabbing your co-worker in the neck in a bloody rage is pretty disturbing.

    Btw, read some of the critic reviews and it's not just the violence, it's also the new woke #metoo female critics complaining about "oh here we go again, it's mom's fault" you're like this.

    Phoenix has already said he doesn't care if Joker isn't critically received, he and Phillips knew this movie wasn't going to go over well with some, and that's fine he's very proud of the work he did.

    So that's enough for me, I just don't like this trend that we can't say of make anything controversial, it all has to go through the exhausting network of those who now hold themselves up as some beacon of what's acceptable as entertainment.

    There are literally tens of thousands of horror films with that and worse...but all of a sudden, it's an issue now?

    I agree about this new reluctance in terms of deciding what's acceptable.

    In regards to the parental influence on his mental problems...there's more evidence with every single year that passes that familial abuse at a young age causes deep and long-term problems. Almost every serial killer we've ever had grew up being seriously abused in some fashion, so...people need to stop being salty about the truth just because they don't like it. I'm glad Joker is bringing some of this stuff into the light more.
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Re: Joker (Spoilers in thread)
Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:10 am
  • Joker was being shot down before it's release by many groups, why they had Police on site in many places, Rotten Tomato's was slamming it also, influence has happened to stir the public in how the sites rate things now. Black Balling some on screenings if they don't side with the Distributor or a competitors wishes.

    Captain Marvel was a major film also subject to this type of spin before release to the public being shot up the ladder inverse to what was happening to the Joker.

    Really is becoming a factor of ignoring everyone but your own takes now days.
    chris98251
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