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  • pehawk wrote:We're talking about the films, not the shows here.

    And, you obviously dont know Star Trek if you didn't realize Abrams didn't make up Kirk cheatin on the test. Rodenberry did. Again, referenced in Kahn.


    I am very well aware of that. But Khan never referenced Kirk going from a busted cadet to first officer of the Starfleet flagship in the same day, in the midst of a crisis. That's a strain.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:We're talking about the films, not the shows here.

    And, you obviously dont know Star Trek if you didn't realize Abrams didn't make up Kirk cheatin on the test. Rodenberry did. Again, referenced in Kahn.


    I am very well aware of that. But Khan never referenced Kirk going from a busted cadet to first officer of the Starfleet flagship in the same day, in the midst of a crisis. That's a strain.

    In a Sci Fi movie that includes magic antimatter that destroys planets but not the container it is in or the needle used to slurp it up, that is your main beef? Nerds! I think maybe you just hate change. You women are so hard to understand.
    Kirk nailed a green lady, got spock pinched, and went with his gut in a low percentage situation. Roddenberry would approve.
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  • Scottemojo wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:We're talking about the films, not the shows here.

    And, you obviously dont know Star Trek if you didn't realize Abrams didn't make up Kirk cheatin on the test. Rodenberry did. Again, referenced in Kahn.


    I am very well aware of that. But Khan never referenced Kirk going from a busted cadet to first officer of the Starfleet flagship in the same day, in the midst of a crisis. That's a strain.

    In a Sci Fi movie that includes magic antimatter that destroys planets but not the container it is in or the needle used to slurp it up, that is your main beef? Nerds! I think maybe you just hate change. You women are so hard to understand.
    Kirk nailed a green lady, got spock pinched, and went with his gut in a low percentage situation. Roddenberry would approve.


    Montana's main problem with Abrams' Trek is that it didn't include enough babbling about dilithium crystals and other nonsense to make the show 'sound' science-y.
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  • Well, well look who joined the party, Mr Scott (pun intended, if you don't get it Roland will explain it shortly).

    I liked the fact Kirk, Spock, Bones, all of them had depth. Oh, and, ya know, the reboot has actors, like who can act.
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  • Believe it or not, Pe, I'm out of my depth in this thread as it relates to Star Trek. I know next to nothing about the Star Trek universe. I'm assuming you're referring to the "beam me up, Scotty" thing, though?

    I'm feeling massively out-nerded reading this thread, to be honest.
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  • pehawk wrote:Oh, and, ya know, the reboot has actors, like who can act.


    I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    pehawk wrote:Oh, and, ya know, the reboot has actors, like who can act.


    I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean.


    It means he has a man-crush on Chris Pike.
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  • No, they're just real actors, with talent.
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  • pehawk wrote:No, they're just real actors, with talent.


    If they really hone those acting chops, they will be good enough to do ads for internet travel sites.
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  • Kahn will even played by an actor, Cumberbatch.
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  • When they do those travelocity ads, it has to take hours to do the makeup for Capn Kirk, just to hide his gin blossom.
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  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America President John Scalzi weighs in on this subject. For the record, I pretty much agree with his assessment:

    http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/01/26/all-right-fine-heres-what-i-think-about-jj-abrams-directing-star-wars-episode-vii/


    Agreed that Del Toro would've been the better choice. One of the many issues with ep 1-3 was the lack of models/puppets vs CGI. The original trilogy looked more realistic because of space being crude oil and milk, models of the ships, etc.

    I've never seen an Abrams film aside from his Trek, which was a real challenge. The chance of success was less than 1%, because the universe answers to fanatical base. And, as I said before, Abrams actually focused on the personalities and required acting. Which, I LOVE.

    My favorite film all-time is the Apostle, I love charectar driven films. But, I also dig Trek and popcorn flicks. Abrams AT least added some dimension to the crew.
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  • Not trolling here, Pe, but I really don't see the dimension you're talking about. The character development struck me as derivative, Spock's being merely decent. The rest were cutouts.
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  • I liked Nemisis for Hardy. I focus more on the acting.

    In the original films, the crew seemed charactatures and one-liners.

    Okay, why would us discussing this be trolling?
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  • pehawk wrote:In the original films, the crew seemed charactatures and one-liners.


    They seemed that way in BOTH versions, and I think that was a conscious choice by Abrams. Chekov the young guy, Sulu the intense navigator, Uhura the mystery, McCoy the crusty humanitarian, Scotty the uptight engineer, all spouting their one-liners...Abrams stuck to this format in the movie, really. I didn't see much more than that. And I suppose it was a valid choice in that light. But I didn't like it, because I was raised in the TNG era where the episodic format allowed for more depth.
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  • I think my favorite part of Scalzi's thoughts on this was "...or Paul Verhoeven (oh, God, Paul Verhoeven)." Can't say the Mos Eisley Cantina scene wouldn't have been 100% better with an extra boobie, can ya?
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  • Well, I was trolling.
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  • Why is Abrams getting love or hate on the plot of Star Trek? He didn't write it, he directed it. JJ Abrams comes off as a cool nerd and uses fanboy attention on his projects. He will treat Star Wars with more love than Lucas did with his monstrosities.

    Super 8 wasn't a great movie, but it FELT like an old school Spielberg movie, well mostly. And that was its intended goal. It wasn't as good as ET or Close Encounters, but it was a hell of a lot better than AI. The same attention will be paid to Star Wars, it will feel a lot more like the original movies.

    If the plot sucks, that's on the writer.
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  • Unfortunately, it's too late to cast the original trio but damn what I would give to see them adapt Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy.

    Edit: Fixed a typo.
    Last edited by Sarlacc83 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Sarlacc83 wrote:Unfortunately, it's too late to cast the original trio but damn what I would give to see them adapt the Timothy Zahn;s Heir to the Empire trilogy.


    Seconded.
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  • I just hope they avoid the abortion that is the 20-books-too-long Yuuzhan Vong series. Most of those were utter crap and boring as hell. Pretty much anything by Zahn is a win, though.
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  • 12evanf wrote:Why is Abrams getting love or hate on the plot of Star Trek? He didn't write it, he directed it.


    Because he works with too many hack writers and brings them onto his projects.

    He will treat Star Wars with more love than Lucas did with his monstrosities.


    Hilarious how much goodwill Abrams gets by NOT being the last guy.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Because he works with too many hack writers and brings them onto his projects.

    The writer was chosen before the director for this project.

    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Hilarious how much goodwill Abrams gets by NOT being the last guy.

    I liked Abrams from the announcement of the Disney buy. You can go look it up (I know you're a big fan of that).

    Star Trek nerds have always been way more particular than Star Wars nerds. I don't think Abrams was a good fit for Star Trek, he's too raw and focuses more on emotions and action than the tech-aspect. Star Wars is perfect for him.

    George Lucas focused on CGI and effects and butchered his own masterpiece. Any director could raise that bar.
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  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:Hilarious how much goodwill Abrams gets by NOT being the last guy.


    This is normally a poor argument, but in this case, I'd say it's somewhat fair and justified. A tremendous number of random pieces of luck and happenstance came together to make the original Star Wars trilogy what it was, and George Lucas not having control over most of it was critically important. The best thing he ever did for his franchise was to sell it. I'll be very curious to see what all Disney does with it.
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  • 12evanf wrote:Star Trek nerds have always been way more particular than Star Wars nerds. I don't think Abrams was a good fit for Star Trek, he's too raw and focuses more on emotions and action than the tech-aspect. Star Wars is perfect for him.


    I could care less about tech. Everyone thinks the Abrams detractors are just upset about the tech stuff. The script for that movie was terrible, just plain poorly written and kept pulling me out of the movie with "why did that just happen?" questions that even ordinary people would ask. And Abrams made some choices that made little sense and distracted from things, turning it from a "this is how the future could really be" movie of ideas into just another slick, superficial "don't think too hard" popcorn movie. That's a loss that a lot of Trekkies were frustrated with.

    RolandDeschain wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:Hilarious how much goodwill Abrams gets by NOT being the last guy.


    This is normally a poor argument, but in this case, I'd say it's somewhat fair and justified. A tremendous number of random pieces of luck and happenstance came together to make the original Star Wars trilogy what it was, and George Lucas not having control over most of it was critically important. The best thing he ever did for his franchise was to sell it. I'll be very curious to see what all Disney does with it.


    I do believe Lucas originally had Han Solo looking more like Greedo and C3PO being an alien garbage salesman or some ridiculous stuff. I loved seeing Lawrence Kasdan hired to help with Episode VII. I think Abrams will be a good fit for Star Wars.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:I just hope they avoid the abortion that is the 20-books-too-long Yuuzhan Vong series. Most of those were utter crap and boring as hell. Pretty much anything by Zahn is a win, though.

    They've already said the movies will be an original story and won't be based on any of the existing EU works.
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  • I know, Jay; I was just referring to future stuff down the line.
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  • My deepest fear about this choice is that "JJ" secretly stands for Jar Jar...
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  • Vetamur wrote:My deepest fear about this choice is that "JJ" secretly stands for Jar Jar...


    Lol! Abrams would get poisoned in his sleep.
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  • Vetamur wrote:My deepest fear about this choice is that "JJ" secretly stands for Jar Jar...


    I dunno, I'd pay good money to go and just watch the audience's reaction to that. Could be the greatest con job in the history of movies.
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  • Sarlacc83 wrote:Unfortunately, it's too late to cast the original trio but damn what I would give to see them adapt Timothy Zahn's Heir to the Empire trilogy.

    Edit: Fixed a typo.


    The Heir to the Empire trilogy IS Episode 7 8 and 9 to me. I get that it's impossible now, and that really sucks, but to me that was the next inevitable part of the story presented in Lucas' original three.
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  • Read a lil blurb where Terance Stamp (peaches body and appearence double) ripped Lucas for his direction in Star Wars. No one worked opposite Natalie - instead she was a spot on a greenscreen.

    Lucas sucks.
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  • pehawk wrote:Read a lil blurb where Terance Stamp (peaches body and appearence double) ripped Lucas for his direction in Star Wars. No one worked opposite Natalie - instead she was a spot on a greenscreen.

    Lucas sucks.


    It's true! i look a lot like Zod!!
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  • pehawk wrote:instead she was a spot on a greenscreen.

    Lucas sucks.


    Who WASN'T a spot on a green screen? Pretty much the entire newer trilogy was filmed that way, and the fact that it made even actors we KNOW are good actors, like Liam Neeson, act poorly...Tells you a lot about depending on your entire cast sitting inside in front of a green screen.
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  • pehawk wrote:Read a lil blurb where Terance Stamp (peaches body and appearence double) ripped Lucas for his direction in Star Wars. No one worked opposite Natalie - instead she was a spot on a greenscreen.

    Lucas sucks.


    Watch the Red Letter Media reviews of the prequels. They pretty thoroughly torch George Lucas for sitting behind monitors for pretty much the entire shoot while sometimes standing up to hand out basic directions before returning to his seat.
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  • He's never been an "actor's director". Gave minimal guidance in Ep 4. Ep 5 was directed by a guy with a much better relationship with performers. Watching Portman in later movies left me stunned how little Lucas got out of her in the prequels.
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  • I am a huge fan of Abrams even if I am not always a fan of his movies (Star Trek was awesome though- Montana you are on crack).

    I don't know if he fits Star Wars per se. I think he'd be perfect for Indiana Jones but that series can't survive without Harrison Ford. The original Star Wars films always had a campy charm to it, and all 3 of the originals contained "alien horror" elements that helped give the universe a much more savage feel. In that sense, I think Star Wars would probably be more suited to someone like Peter Jackson or Sam Raimi who have experience with top end special effects and horror/monster genre stuff- and both even have a bit of the same horror-cheesiness that Lucas had before he started to suck. Like Jackson and Raimi, Abrams has some horror/monster film background which will go well with re-introducing the series to the weird but awesome bestiary of the original trilogy.

    Bottom line, I don't think Disney could have done much better than Abrams. And if Abrams says no, and options 2,3,4, and 5 all say no, you might be down to guys like Michael Bay, or an unproven director that could prove an even bigger disaster. We all thought that Star Wars would become a joke. Maybe it still will. But at least Abrams gives us a solar flare of hope.
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  • Also, I wouldn't expect Abrams to stick with Star Wars long. I'd say 3 movies, tops, probably 2. Disney wants to turn it into a James Bond type franchise, and as with long series like James Bond and Harry Potter, you can expect the director to change every couple of movies, even if the previous director did an awesome job.
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  • Maybe Disney won't be a cheap piece of crap, and will pay a good director enough money to direct 7 or 8 of 'em. Pipe dream, I suppose...
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  • kearly wrote:Also, I wouldn't expect Abrams to stick with Star Wars long. I'd say 3 movies, tops, probably 2. Disney wants to turn it into a James Bond type franchise, and as with long series like James Bond and Harry Potter, you can expect the director to change every couple of movies, even if the previous director did an awesome job.


    Abrams will move on after two movies indeed, but it won't be just because of Disney keeping the rotation fresh. Abrams has ADD and can't stay focused on any one project for long. Leaves a trail of unfinished projects in his wake ("What About Brian", "Six Degrees", "Undercovers", "Alcatraz") and his successful ones get taken on by others.

    And "Trek" was horribly forced writing and sheeny melodrama. I cannot fathom how so many smart media consumers on this board enjoyed that movie. It's like a body-snatchers conspiracy.
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  • Montana right now in this thread:

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  • You, on the other hand...

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  • I've not even seen the Star Trek movie, nor do I know more than a tiny bit about Star Trek. Since I haven't claimed to, I'm not sure how I can have my head up there in this thread?
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  • OK, fine, I'll change the victims of recto-cranial inversion to Pehawk and Kearly. :P
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  • That works! Though, I don't know how much merit there is in that accusation. I'm serious when I say I know nothing about Star Trek, lol. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt! :)
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  • I'm not even going to argue. I don't have to. Based on what critics and audiences thought (95%, one of the highest Rotten Tomato scores of 2009, and one of the highest rated summer blockbusters ever), you might as well be Baghdad Bob on this one Brandon. :)
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  • Montana's new nickname should be Baghdad Bob, for awhile at least.
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