But some people DO want to ban alcohol. They have before. And if it wasn't such a giant, money making industry it would have probably been banned and stayed banned long ago. But it is, and it's one of the largest forms of recreation in existence. And again, it's not really the same situation. IMO, it all comes down to the native purpose of the thing. Alcohol can kill, alcohol can ruin lives, make you do stupid shit you regret, but the main reason it exists is for relaxation and recreation. Same with cars; they can kill, hurt, cause damage, fuck up the environment ( ) but their main purpose for their existence is for transportation and convenience. Guns can be fun, they can be entertainment, they can provide security and protection but the main reason they exist is to kill. That's why they were invented. They are for killing efficiently. That's the difference to me.



Here's where I pull out the tinfoil hat and probably lose most of you, but I believe they want to disarm the population so that we're not a threat to them. Not that we're much of a threat now, but it would be much easier to control a population that has no firearms. I don't know what the future holds, but I believe that the people in charge would like it to go as smoothly and with as little resistance as possible.

So, for the last time, just so there's no question, I do not support the banning of firearms of any kind. I support the 2nd amendment right to a well regulated militia and the right to bear arms.

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Tanzania¹²

So, you are on board with gun bans or not, getting mixed messages here...

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2013 AAR: Chris Harper

Here's why DUIs and guns are two very different arguments.

Driving drunk is illegal AKA the using of a vehicle as a weapon even when you don't do anything but simply use it is illegal. Fuck, even sitting in a car in the drivers seat, keys out of the ignition and passed out will get you thrown in jail.

Using a gun isn't illegal.

70% of those killed in drunk driving "accidents" <---'see that term, it's often used to describe these incidents' are the drunk drivers themselves. That means drunk driving "accidents" only account for ~3,000 "murders". Which is ridiculous in itself and like I said I'm 100% for a blow-n-go in cars.

Cars are used to transport humans and goods 2.5 TRILLION miles each year in the US. I'm 100% for for spending as much as possible to continue to make cars safer. Automate vehicles and travel, absolutely. We shouldn't be happy until there are 0 deaths from accidents.

Guns? You want them because the government is going to ... I don't know, turn into Stalin? Sorry, guns don't prevent that from happening (remember, they have drones...). People speaking up does. People not being complacent. You want something for personal safety? Ok, I can see a valid argument there. But I would argue that intelligently removing firearms from our society would significantly increase our safety.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

Sonic, I can see your view to a degree about intelligently removing guns, but still have to disagree. Even removing guns will not stop people from killing others, It's what we as a species do, find ways to kill each other off. Until we change that, lobotomies maybe, then we will always find quick and easy ways to destroy our fellow humans either singly, or in groups.

Or if we ever find actual alien life that we can all hate as a species, we'd come together to find some way to wipe them out of the fucking galaxy. Fucking aliens.

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2013 AAR: Chris Harper

The last paragraph of Sonic's post, there's the great debate here. Would removing guns from society have a positive or negative effect? There are arguments for both sides. I won't take one.

As to the rest of his post? Spot on. Exactly why the guns & cars/drunk driving comparison/analogy is INCORRECT. You can't honestly argue that unless you're a dimwit.

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Tanzania¹²

I disagree that that is what people do. I have never killed someone, I doubt you have. Is it really what we do?

That being said I'm not suggesting by any means that removing guns removes all murders.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

As a species we do, that was my point. Is a peaceful society a bad thing? No. Do I doubt it will ever happen? Yes.

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2013 AAR: Chris Harper

Drinking is legal, Driving is illegal, it's the act of driving while drunk that is illegal

Owning a gun is legal, Possessing a gun is legal. using it in many ways is often illegal




Accident shouldn't be in the equation. People know when they've been drinking and therefor they know the risk they take when getting behind the wheel of their car intoxicated. Call it negligent if you wish, but it is not an accident.

You like to use accident, but in the courts it's classified as homicide. Then when it comes to guns, you call it murder, but again in the courts it's classified as a homicide. Both are felonies. You just have your agenda against guns so you try to make it seem like it's not that big a deal when a drunk kills someone with a car instead of a gun.



You can make automobile's as safe as you want, that doesn't mean that people won't do stupid things in them and cause another person's death with them. Guns are much safer today than they were when they were first invented too.



I want guns legal, because it's my constitutional right as an American. I want my freedom of speech, I want my right to a fair trial, I want my right to not incriminate myself, I want my right to vote.....I could go on and on here. You may not agree with gun ownership, and that is your right. Nobody is making you possess one, but don't infringe on another's right, just because you don't like it.

There are 6 billion people in the world and ~500k intentional homicides a year. Apparently around 2M die per year in wars. That would suggest that [max] .04% of us are murderers?

That would hardly suggest that we have to kill.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

If your right puts my familys life in danger, I'm going to try to shit on that stupid fucking right. Let's not pretend like every single right from 1787 is just as relevant as it is today. Hell, my ancestors didn't have rights then.

I'm sorry your gun argument isn't solid enough that you have to continue to compare it to something only mildly relevant.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

Sounds like an argument against gun control to me.

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Member formally known as AC59

And what about the other part of that amendment, the "well regulated militia"? Nobody seems to give a shit about that part, as long as nobody tries to take their guns!!

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Tanzania¹²

That's because you hear what you want to hear.

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Tanzania¹²

It's because we have an actual army now and don't need militias.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

Remove all guns. It'll reduce violent deaths to almost nil.
Remove all knives. It'll reduce acts of violence to almost nil.
Remove the knuckles on the human hand. It'll reduce fistfights to almost nil.
Remove all human emotion via chemicals. It'll reduce human aggression and fix the problem of violence in general.
Give emotional lobotomies to all newborn infants. That way, they can never harm or kill another.

We have now achieved the ultimate goal that the "remove guns" crowd is working towards.

You're on a roll today! I'm honestly impressed.

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Tanzania¹²

Awesome a slippery slope argument! Been awhile.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

Slippery slope arguments. Because nothing ever progresses past its first and intended point or use.

I'm not saying it will happen, but if a country like china who have a vastly higher number of soldiers were to invade us in a surprise attack, are you saying that the people that aren't in the military should not have the ability to do anything to aid in the defense of our nation?

I'd rather we keep our "arms" for many of the reasons that have been stated throughout the various threads, not just any singular reason, but all of them combined

Slippery slope arguments: Because everything progresses exponentially instantly.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012