Link, please.

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Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Except that in many cases not doing anything is just as costly, if not more so, than doing something. Case in point: Homelessness. It costs less to build houses and shelter the homeless than it does to let them roam the streets. (Due to the medical bills they incur while uninsured/rehabilitation to actually get them back on their feet which can lead to autonomy, etc.)

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My single greatest contribution to the board: "42-13" (formerly 24-14)

Bite me. I witness it all around me where I teach. I can name ten of my students off the top of my head who come to school with maybe three or four school outfits, their houses are barely sheltered from the elements and lack central heating that works every day, and they can't even get a ride to school in the morning because their parents/guardians are hung over from three days spent living it up in Great Falls.

Thirty miles away, there's a white community containing people with the same habits. Only difference is that they go to church.

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GO HAWKS!!!

Visit my Seahawks blog at 17power.blogspot.com!

Follow me on Twitter at @17power

Wait, is that an argument for or against? I'm really having a hard time telling.

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My single greatest contribution to the board: "42-13" (formerly 24-14)

It doesn't matter, we should have no social programs, Churches will take care of the needy, well after their done fleecing the congregation for donations anyway (Oh wait, I forgot in many churches the fleecing is a full time activity).

Hell I know, we need to make homelessness a crime; if someone can be proved to be homeless for a year, I think we should throw them in a private prison for 5 years. That way CCA and other corporations get slave labor and make a profit, and these scum are off the streets. Who cares if it's expensive if corporate America profits?

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Wonder if Vol will ask for a link?

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That's weak sauce!

Shit, you've convinced me with your anecdotal evidence. Fuck 'em all, then.

(By the way, I wasn't asking for a link proving that there is abuse of the system. Of COURSE there's abuse of the system... that's going to happen no matter what system you're talking about. What I was asking for was a link that shows that the abuse that occurs makes the social programs INFEASIBLE.)

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Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I can provide one that talks about how actually housing the chronically homeless may be less expensive than leaving them on the streets.

http://www.forbes.com/2006/08/25/us-hom ... xford.html

I didn't need to ask for one because I'd actually heard that argument before and read articles that discussed it. But for those of you who hadn't or are skeptical of the claim, there's the link.

I assume that Montana can just as easily find a link for his claim that his anecdotal abusers of social programs make the programs infeasible.

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Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I am not going to jump through some rhetorical statistical hoops to prove to you that the system is wide open to abuse.

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GO HAWKS!!!

Visit my Seahawks blog at 17power.blogspot.com!

Follow me on Twitter at @17power

Translation: "I got nuthin'."

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Okay, so maybe that pass rush is still an issue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

The sad truth about the minimum wage and increase to it that there are consequences that no one wants to talk about associated with a raise. First, forces businesses to raise prices on their goods to compensate for the raise. If you are a small business this could be the kiss of death as you may be struggling to make ends meet already. You have to have people come through the door and buy your goods to generate revenue, higher prices especially when people don't have more money these days usually means less customers. So then you come to the second point, to keep the doors open you have to cut people. Thirdly, those who have been working for you for some time will be penalized because with the increase in the wages that those who are just starting you can not afford to reward the more senior members for their hard work with a raise.

My parents have owned a small dairy queen in Wapato, WA for the better part of 25 years. The above is not just some spun up opinion unfortunately it is a reality. Prices will go up, people will lose their jobs and hard work will have to go unrewarded to keep the lights on and the doors open.

The sad truth about the minimum wage and increase to it that there are consequences that no one wants to talk about associated with a raise. First, forces businesses to raise prices on their goods to compensate for the raise. If you are a small business this could be the kiss of death as you may be struggling to make ends meet already. You have to have people come through the door and buy your goods to generate revenue, higher prices especially when people don't have more money these days usually means less customers. So then you come to the second point, to keep the doors open you have to cut people. Thirdly, those who have been working for you for some time will be penalized because with the increase in the wages that those who are just starting you can not afford to reward the more senior members for their hard work with a raise.

My parents have owned a small dairy queen in Wapato, WA for the better part of 25 years. The above is not just some spun up opinion unfortunately it is a reality. Prices will go up, people will lose their jobs and hard work will have to go unrewarded to keep the lights on and the doors open.

You do realize that the minimum wage is going up for everybody? That means everyone will have to compensate for such raise.

Businesses have been going out of business since the beginning of businesses. If you can't pay your bills you're doing it wrong.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

Tell me about the business you ran...

I'd love to hear about it.

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President of the Perfect Parents Society - est. 2013

This actually happens. I remember as a manager I was the only actual hourly worker that wasn't on minimum wage. So when Washington State's annual minimum wage hike would go into affect I would notice everyone else around me get bigger raises. Just another way the owners/upper management will compensate for the increase.

15 year old kids shouldn't be paid $9/hr to scoop ice cream. That's stupid.

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Tanzania¹²

What arbitrary number do you think 15 year olds scooping ice cream should be paid? What if a 40 year old with a 15 year old kid is scooping ice cream? What if that 15 year old is helping supplement the income of their single unemployed parent? What if that 15 year old is a rich kid who is trying to save money so he can buy a car on his own?

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012

I don't think an arbitrary number. I think there's plenty of scenarios where $9/hr is not nearly enough.

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Tanzania¹²

If I scooped ice cream as a job for, let's say, 2 hours, I think that $10 is a fair payment of services. If cleaning out bathrooms and other tasks are part of my jobset, I want a raise.

Great, I know a Mexican immigrant (don't worry Sailor, he's legal) who is willing it to do for $8.

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RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012