2013 Defense, 4th Best All Time?

Well according to Dan Pompei they are.

What we can be sure of is this is one of the best collections of big, athletic, skilled players in history. The Seahawks are pretty special in that regard. But in order to be remembered by history like the Steel Curtain and the '85 Bears, the Seahawks D will need to be sustainable. Since it's such a young defense, we have no idea if there is even a single Hall of Fame player on the unit. "I'm not ready to put Seattle with that group yet," Dungy said of the Steelers of the mid-'70s. "You have to see it develop over the course of a couple years and see it over a period of time."

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http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/68 ... um=twitter










fixed title, I didn't see things right, they are 4th best on this list.

Actually, he has us 4th best, not 3rd. And that list is for the SB era only.

I could even see someone making a legitimate argument that the 2002 Bucs were ahead of us, but the 2013 Seahawks are a top 5 lock.

EDIT: Also, what I didn't see mentioned in that article is how good the 2012 team was, too. When Dungy talks about doing it over a span of years, the 2012 squad needs to be mentioned in the range of dominance.

The salary cap era is a different animal. Comparing the Steel Curtain and the Bears to the Hawks is patently unfair. The rules on player control and salary are so different.

However, I still would call the Ravens D that won a Bowl my number one of the cap era, followed by the '13 Hawks.

I love how these guys point out the 85 bears and the 00 Ravens, but then say the Hawks need to do it over the course of several years. We're talking about one season here. Funny how some people are so reluctant to say that something current is among the best ever. 2013 Seahawks are a top 5 best ever, and I think that's pretty fair.

Best secondary of all time, 4th best defense of all time. 2000 ravens 1976 steelers 1985 bears.
It was however the best defensive Super Bowl performance ever, and no I don't want to hear about the bucs picking off rich Gannon a few times. We were against Peyton manning. That said I have a hard time putting them above those 3

He ranks them 4th.

1. '85 Bears
2. '76 Steelers
3. '00 Ravens
4. '13 Seahawks

Regardless, that's good company.

Those other defenses have the benefit of lore on their side. The '13 Hawks could be thought of higher if they repeat as SB champs, or if in 20 years guys like Earl Thomas & Richard Sherman become Hall of Famers.

With the cap era, there could be so many changes that a team may not be the same as it was a year before. Therefore, having a consistency thru the years may not be a possibility much less a capability. Look at Atlanta and Baltimore. After 2 years ago and 3 years ago, their teams changed drastically. You would almost have to grade each team within its own parameters against other teams within their single year accomplishments. If you are evaluating the method or coaching, then the consistency could be challenged as the best of the best over a period of time.

Scottemojo":30e0sp8w said:

However, I still would call the Ravens D that won a Bowl my number one of the cap era, followed by the '13 Hawks.

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I put together data (and posted it) comparing the two defenses. I normalized the stats for both the era difference (2000 vs 2013) and the level of competition difference (they faced different levels of competition in their respective years).

From a scoring standpoint, the normalized data supports the premise that the Hawks 2013 defense was better than the 2000 Ravens defense.

Some may argue that stats be damned... "I saw what I saw"... but stats are more reliable than peoples' perceptions, especially from 13 years ago.

Btw, no knock on you, Scotte.

And I did the same analysis on the '85 Bears... and after normalizing the data, they were statistically better than the 2013 Hawks D.

The only historically great defense to completely dismantle the greatest offense of all time was Seattle.

We're #1

I've been following this board since the AFC "Wild Wild West" days. The question has historically been...is this the year we have a top-5 (or top-10) defense? Inevitably, hopes would be crushed pretty regularly to that end. It's amazing that now the question is...where does this defense rank among the top-5 all-time greats?

To me it comes down to if you're talking dynasty v.s single year. Single year '13 hawks are up there, surely 3rd or 4th at worst. As a dynasty we just need to prove ourselves one more year and have the #1 defense again.

If we maintain our guys like we should be able to and have the #1 defense again next year I think it's hard to argue we aren't the best all time.
2010 - #25 defense
2011 - #7 defense
2012 - #1 defense
2013 - #1 defense with a tougher schedule and quite improved stat wise.
2014 - ?? at worst we lose Bennett and Clemons but keep the 'boom, should be able to go #1.

Still the improvement is amazing since Jim Mora really. I'm really excited for next year, the only improvement we need to make is run defense, we know ET and Sherman are smart enough to shut down the backfield.

SacHawk2.0":3ahj5r21 said:

The only historically great defense to completely dismantle the greatest offense of all time was Seattle.

We're #1

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REALLY good point. That Giants team the Ravens played was very meh.....Kerry Collins at QB anyone? So was the Pats team the Bears played.....Tony Eason? um, no. On that top 4 list, only the '76 Stealers faced an offense of any caliber (Cowboys with Staubach).

AbsolutNET":3ahj5r21 said:

I love how these guys point out the 85 bears and the 00 Ravens, but then say the Hawks need to do it over the course of several years. We're talking about one season here. Funny how some people are so reluctant to say that something current is among the best ever. 2013 Seahawks are a top 5 best ever, and I think that's pretty fair.

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REALLY good point too. On that top 4 list, only the 70s Stealers maintained it over a period of years to the point of winning more than one SB.

Fixed the title, thanks for noticing my error...

"The only historically great defense to completely dismantle the greatest offense of all time was Seattle."

Didn't the Bucs team that dismantled the Raiders do that too?

It was my understanding that the Raiders were one of the top offenses at the time?

Of course the #s are a bit tainted in that the Bucs had an intimate level of knowledge of the inner workings and plays of the Raiders, and one of the very important players on the Raiders had a mental breakdown the night/or a few nights before the SB - but wouldn't you have still put the Raiders in the category of a really good offense save for that game?

It would be interesting to see the point differential between historical defenses (normalized against the strength of opponents vs the average strength of opponents to account for defenses that faced an easy or extra difficult schedule) and the point differential against the average team (again normalized against schedule).

We did get a few lucky breaks facing some teams missing or bringing ineffective QBs, but then again teh Seahawks also played some of the tougher teams in the league, beating most soundly. We likely easily fall in the top four or five still considering all those factors.

Obviously this is only for SB teams, since I think a few of the greatest defenses didn't make a SB.

Didn't get the 2000 Ravens also get to play like four or five backup QBs in the regular season, too?

Without looking anything uo deep into stats etc what this defense has done against elite QBs and the high octane offenses they have its unquestioned in my mind they are the best ever.

RolandDeschain":jqcrwv8g said:

Didn't get the 2000 Ravens also get to play like four or five backup QBs in the regular season, too?

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I think so, but I think that's because they knocked out the starting QBs themselves.

AbsolutNET":1nh1j43k said:

I love how these guys point out the 85 bears and the 00 Ravens, but then say the Hawks need to do it over the course of several years. We're talking about one season here. Funny how some people are so reluctant to say that something current is among the best ever. 2013 Seahawks are a top 5 best ever, and I think that's pretty fair.

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I was thinking the same thing. The Ravens had a pretty good (though not as good) defense for a while but the Bears faded pretty quickly. Even while they were "good" they never again approached the level of dominance they showed in those special seasons.

Scottemojo":osdn3pga said:

The salary cap era is a different animal. Comparing the Steel Curtain and the Bears to the Hawks is patently unfair. The rules on player control and salary are so different..

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OR... you just take it into account when you make the comparisons. Nothing wrong with that. Because it cuts both ways. In those eras, the offense didn't have such leeway. Now with the rules and game flow favoring the offense much more, to do what the Seahawks did also garners points.

And so with the salary cap being taken into account, a dynasty may no longer be 10 years, but maybe 3 years. (sadly, but true).

One of those conversations that will always be fun to have because everyone will have different filters and criteria. But at least the Seahawks D accomplished their goal: they will always be in the conversation.

How about that? They didn't just win a Super Bowl, but now they will always be talked about forever because they will always be in the conversation of top defenses.

HOW ABOUT THAT?!

Well, I guess we'll just have to play even better next season, then.