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 Post subject: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:30 pm 
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#1 The fire Pete mentality after every loss
#2 The idea that Matt Flynn is good

Seems like every time hawks lose people post in here about how Pete needs to go and how Matt Flynn deserves to start. Is this going to continue throughout the season and is this normal?

From my point of view Pete has turned this around in 2 years. There was ZERO talent here when he showed up (as evidence with the roster turn over), and he has raised expectation to the level that in year 3 most expect to win every week. Do many of you even remember where this team was when he took over? IT WAS AWFUL.

Matt Flynn ..... I don't see it. Is it just the idea or hope he will be Matt 2.0? Did a bunch of you go out and buy his jersey in the preseason? Do you just want to be right about something on an internet message board so you will continue to call for Flynn till he is in? While it doesn't hurt to be a backup for a good team....you are still just a backup. He failed to beat out a rookie QB, he has no arm strength, and I have not been impressed with him AT ALL in a Seahawks uniform. Have you been impressed with him as a Seahawk?

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“But if you’re asking, what is the perfect quarterback? You have to think it’s a guy that first of all has a presence about him and can tilt the room or tilt the field his way. It’s somebody that is smart, poised, tough, can move. A guy that can make quick decisions. And somebody that the rest of the guys in the locker room can look at and say, ‘Hey, that’s the guy. That’s the guy we’re going to be able to go win games with.’ ”


When you read this from Schneider who do you think of... Flynn or Wilson?

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:33 pm 
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Irrationality.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:34 pm 
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First of all, welcome.

Second, I dont recall any Fire Pete threads. Plenty of dislike for the coordinators after losses though.

Lastly, the backup QB is almost always one of the most popular players on the team. Unless you have a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning as your starter.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:37 pm 
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If you want to understand read some threads. It's been hashed out 1 million times already.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Honestly, I see that quote and I think of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning (except for maybe the "can move" part). Both Flynn and Wilson are light years away from being there. That's not to say that neither one of them can get there, though, and I think you're correct if you're suggesting that Schneider thinks Wilson has the highest potential to be that quarterback at some point in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:45 pm 
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edogg23 wrote:
If you want to understand read some threads. It's been hashed out 1 million times already.


Thanks for the suggestion, but maybe you could just provide me with some cliff notes. Seemed to me like after the Rams game there was a mob mentality around here. Patience, patience.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:01 pm 
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Some folks don't like Pete because of, well you would have to ask them. There were a few who thought he was dishonest or they buy into the Pete is a rah-rah coach that cannot work in the NFL. Others are not happy with how Pete has handled the QB position starting with Matt Hasselbeck.

Matt Flynn's play against the Patriots and the love he got from that game as well as his record setting performance against the Lions have many folks projecting Matt to a very highly performing QB. They feel that his time in a pro QB room with Rodgers and the Packers high octane offense only naturally will rub off on him here. Pete's own words describing who was leading in the QB race as the pre-season started feeds the idea that Matt would be more fluent in identifying coverages and picking the right WR to hit (he stated at the time that Matt was further ahead of Wilson understanding the offense).

Yes, unless the team rips off 11-straight or something, you will continue to see many asking why Flynn couldn't be given a chance.

The CBJ vs TJack debates of last year, then the acceptance that CBJ blew and then just the disgust with TJack ruled the board. The year before, it was Matt H vs CBJ and the extensive debates and posts of those who didn't want to see Matt removed and others who felt it was time to move on, even if CBJ wasn't the answer.

It can get frustrating as the same old arguments break out which seem more personal than reasonable discussion of the state of things. Buckle up.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:15 pm 
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you may be somewhat apprehensive in saying Pete has turned this around in 2 years...

7-9
7-9
3-2

lets hope this year is the breakout year!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:24 pm 
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I think for me, it's a couple of things:

I think our team is poised for a deep playoff run, and the QB position is holding it back. I'm probably a little bit impatient to wait for rookie growth. It might be unreasonable, since Wilson seems to be doing fine, and he's not terrible as a rookie. I think that Flynn would have less of a growth curve, as he's already shown in NFL games that he has some strengths that Wilson doesn't have (reading hot routes, seeing WRs quickly, throwing guys open).

Personally, for me, it's more intrigue with Flynn than disdain for Wilson. Flynn has shown flashes of brilliance in just a few games. You can say what you want about all the peripherals, but there are a ton of QBs that wouldn't have shown what Flynn did in his first 2 games (only RG3 from this crop of QBs has shown that ability in his first 2 games....Luck is getting it 4-5 games in for comparitive purposes). It just seems a shame that we'll probably never know what we have, and it's tremendously unfair to Flynn for all the people ripping him and calling him terrible.

The other thing that bothers me is something that Trent Dilfer said. Trent may not have been an elite QB, but he's very football intelligent and I trust his analysis over most people's. Trent said that at Russell's height, he can succeed, but he has to be damn near perfect at everything to do it. It seems unlikely that a rookie will be that good in all areas to offset his disadvantages. Refer back to comment 1 for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:31 pm 
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I find the Flynn talk odd just because of the situation with Tjax and CBJ. There were a lot of people calling for Charlie until the browns game, that's when we saw what the coaches were probably seeing in practice. I am sure Pete wants the best qb out there...maybe Flynn is cbj'ing it in practice.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:00 pm 
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I might be out of left with this one, but perhaps it could be the fact Flynn has thrown twice as many TDs in his 2 NFL starts as Wilson has thrown in 5. That certainly adds a bit of intrigue to the situation.

A poster above suggested there is a mystery factor regarding Flynn. I am of that camp. This is getting rather redundant but while I can't speak for every member of the Flynn camp, I don't think anyone is anti-Wilson...just pro-Flynn. There is a difference, and it's one many Wilson supporters refuse to understand.

I'll put it this way: In the off-season, tired as hell of our QB situation, we snatch the QB prize of them all (other than Peyton..and some feel including Peyton). We get this record setting TD machine from the best QB factory east of U-Dub, only to see a 5'10" rookie take his place without some believe, a fair competition in the pre-season. The rookie, like all rookies, struggles and thus far averages less than 1 TD per game. It appears the playbook is (naturally) dummied down for him and our offense is arguably the worst in the league. Shall I go on?

Pete? I have nothing against Pete other than the above (and he can get a bit silly at times). OTOH, I do feel he handed the starting job to his draft pick and I don't necessarily appreciate that. In the end, I am a Hawk fan. When Wilson struggles, I struggle. Wilson appears to be the kid you want your daughter to marry. Who couldn't like and cheer this guy? I just want the best QB in there and I am uncertain we have that at this time.

Oh...and Flynn has won a championship. I want to win championships.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:34 pm 
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drdiags wrote:

The CBJ vs TJack debates of last year, then the acceptance that CBJ blew and then just the disgust with TJack ruled the board. The year before, it was Matt H vs CBJ and the extensive debates and posts of those who didn't want to see Matt removed and others who felt it was time to move on, even if CBJ wasn't the answer.

It can get frustrating as the same old arguments break out which seem more personal than reasonable discussion of the state of things. Buckle up.


Don't forget: The Senecat! They'll never be able to stop the Senecat! LOL!

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:06 pm 
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Twisted wrote:
you may be somewhat apprehensive in saying Pete has turned this around in 2 years...

7-9
7-9
3-2

lets hope this year is the breakout year!!!

Pre-Carrol
2008 4-12
2009 5-11

Pro-Bowlers
2008 - (2) Walter Jones & Julian Peterson
2009 - Zero
2010 - Zero
2011 - (5) Earl Thomas, Brandon Browner, Marshawn Lynch, Kam Chancellor, & Michael Robinson

Another stat; playoffs
2008 - No playoffs
2009 - No playoffs
2010 - 1 playoff win, 2 appearances
2011 - No playoffs

Only 6 players are left from the 2009 season, Trufant, Hill, Obamanu, Unger, Bryant, and Mebane. Three are starters... out of 53 players from only 3 seasons ago. The wins don't show it, but this team would kill the 2008 or 2009 Seahawks team, handily.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:08 pm 
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HawkWow wrote:

Oh...and Flynn has won a championship. I want to win championships.


You gotta chill

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:35 pm 
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No one here wants any other head coach other than Pete Carroll.
Matt Flynn is good.
Hopefully now you understand those things. You, sir, are welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:44 pm 
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Well done sammyc521 :th2thumbs:


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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:43 am 
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LymonHawk wrote:
drdiags wrote:

The CBJ vs TJack debates of last year, then the acceptance that CBJ blew and then just the disgust with TJack ruled the board. The year before, it was Matt H vs CBJ and the extensive debates and posts of those who didn't want to see Matt removed and others who felt it was time to move on, even if CBJ wasn't the answer.

It can get frustrating as the same old arguments break out which seem more personal than reasonable discussion of the state of things. Buckle up.


Don't forget: The Senecat! They'll never be able to stop the Senecat! LOL!



This is who RW reminds me of btw, Seneca Wallace (minus the experience though, if you can believe that).


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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:55 am 
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Oh my god its happening again!!!!!!!! :throwup:

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:02 am 
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hawkfan1975 wrote:
LymonHawk wrote:
drdiags wrote:

The CBJ vs TJack debates of last year, then the acceptance that CBJ blew and then just the disgust with TJack ruled the board. The year before, it was Matt H vs CBJ and the extensive debates and posts of those who didn't want to see Matt removed and others who felt it was time to move on, even if CBJ wasn't the answer.

It can get frustrating as the same old arguments break out which seem more personal than reasonable discussion of the state of things. Buckle up.


Don't forget: The Senecat! They'll never be able to stop the Senecat! LOL!



This is who RW reminds me of btw, Seneca Wallace (minus the experience though, if you can believe that).


Yeah well you know who he reminds me of? Tarvaris Jackson and I'm damn happy for it. You can take your "win now or I'm jumping ship" attitude and shove it.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:17 am 
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sammyc521 wrote:
Twisted wrote:
you may be somewhat apprehensive in saying Pete has turned this around in 2 years...

7-9
7-9
3-2

lets hope this year is the breakout year!!!

Pre-Carrol
2008 4-12
2009 5-11

Pro-Bowlers
2008 - (2) Walter Jones & Julian Peterson
2009 - Zero
2010 - Zero
2011 - (5) Earl Thomas, Brandon Browner, Marshawn Lynch, Kam Chancellor, & Michael Robinson

Another stat; playoffs
2008 - No playoffs
2009 - No playoffs
2010 - 1 playoff win, 2 appearances
2011 - No playoffs

Only 6 players are left from the 2009 season, Trufant, Hill, Obamanu, Unger, Bryant, and Mebane. Three are starters... out of 53 players from only 3 seasons ago. The wins don't show it, but this team would kill the 2008 or 2009 Seahawks team, handily.


maybe so but at some point we need to start winning more then we lose.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:24 am 
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Tech Worlds wrote:
maybe so but at some point we need to start winning more then we lose.


Exactly. As we have so far this season. Let's hope the trend continues and improves.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:44 am 
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I see you 75. We're all in the same gang. I hope.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:41 am 
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HawkWow wrote:
I might be out of left with this one, but perhaps it could be the fact Flynn has thrown twice as many TDs in his 2 NFL starts as Wilson has thrown in 5. That certainly adds a bit of intrigue to the situation.

A poster above suggested there is a mystery factor regarding Flynn. I am of that camp. This is getting rather redundant but while I can't speak for every member of the Flynn camp, I don't think anyone is anti-Wilson...just pro-Flynn. There is a difference, and it's one many Wilson supporters refuse to understand.

I'll put it this way: In the off-season, tired as hell of our QB situation, we snatch the QB prize of them all (other than Peyton..and some feel including Peyton). We get this record setting TD machine from the best QB factory east of U-Dub, only to see a 5'10" rookie take his place without some believe, a fair competition in the pre-season. The rookie, like all rookies, struggles and thus far averages less than 1 TD per game. It appears the playbook is (naturally) dummied down for him and our offense is arguably the worst in the league. Shall I go on?

Pete? I have nothing against Pete other than the above (and he can get a bit silly at times). OTOH, I do feel he handed the starting job to his draft pick and I don't necessarily appreciate that. In the end, I am a Hawk fan. When Wilson struggles, I struggle. Wilson appears to be the kid you want your daughter to marry. Who couldn't like and cheer this guy? I just want the best QB in there and I am uncertain we have that at this time.

Oh...and Flynn has won a championship. I want to win championships.


Do we have worst post ever award? If so, I'd like to nominate this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Help me understand a few things...
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:14 am 
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T-Sizzle wrote:
#1 The fire Pete mentality after every loss
#2 The idea that Matt Flynn is good

Seems like every time hawks lose people post in here about how Pete needs to go and how Matt Flynn deserves to start. Is this going to continue throughout the season and is this normal?


1. I see very few people calling for Carroll's firing. Even the people that think Flynn should start are rational to understand that Carroll's done a good job of building the Hawks into a contender.

2. The idea of Matt Flynn being good came from Carroll and Schneider going out and paying him starting QB money. This was also the opinion of other teams that pursued Flynn in the off season. The question should be "when did Matt Flynn become worse than a 3rd round rookie?"

3. The call for Flynn to start will end when our passing offense improves to the point of no longer being amoungst the worst in the league (currently #31). The call for Flynn will end when our offense can score points and not put so much pressure on our defense to play flawlessly. The call for Flynn will end when Wilson can improve upon our league worst Red Zone offense. THEN AND ONLY THEN will people shut up about starting Flynn.

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