Sherman appeal decision tommorow (links)

The Essential Online Seahawks Fan Forum Community. There simply is NO substitute. RATING: PG-13
Sherman appeal decision tommorow (links)
Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:36 am

  • One thing to note is that all reports of a broken seal are from Sherman. That is his defense so he is obviously believing that it was so / claiming it was so.

    The one article states "if confirmed by the tester"

    a few points

    1) If confirmed by the tester I do 100% agree it should be thrown out. Sorry none of us would accept getting fired / suspended from our jobs based on faulty testing

    2) I am sorry Sherman but if you were clean and went in there to take the test AND saw that the leaking cup, broken seal etc what are you claiming as your excuse not to request a new test? How come you are using this information post result and not prior? Like many others I have done the piss test and you better believe I looked at the cup, I signed a sealed cup and I saw it all sealed up in front of me. If there were any irregularities I would have requested that we do it all over again even if I had to down a few bottles of juice. If my livelihood is on the line I would make sure things were done right. Not take the test and then LATER complain about bad testing procedures.......
    2014 inagural .net Survivor pool CHAMPION
    mikeak
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3848
    Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:24 pm
    Location: Anchorage, AK



  • sc85sis wrote:We don't know whether he complained at the time.


    I don't think that's relevant, nor is it an admission of guilt..........and if the league says otherwise then the whole PED testing process is a sham.

    Which wouldn't surprise me btw, Goodell's commissioner God complex doesn't have a shred of consistency, he just makes up crap while he goes.
    If there is no Seahawk football in heaven, then we will never die.
    User avatar
    Sgt. Largent
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 4024
    Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:10 am


  • I think the short of it is it is irrelevant if he's actually guilty of the PED's or not. The due process in law would get him off, which is why he "wishes" it could be in court - the NFL is another story. The NFL might just say, "There's enough evidence and we trust the tester enough to feel confident that the test isn't tainted" and slap the suspension.

    My thoughts on that are pretty simple: That's a slippery slope approach by the NFL if they choose to suspend him. They really open themselves up to major scrutiny, polarizing opinions, and other bad press if they go through with it. If I were the NFL, I'd re-evaluate who my testing facility is and ensure that they are rock solid and play by the book to the point that their process can be held up in a court of law. Goodell knows that the "court of the NFL" is losing some luster - and this suspension will put the NFL under the microscope real quick.
    Image
    User avatar
    nsport
    * NET Sports Handicapper *
     
    Posts: 1477
    Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:13 am


  • nsport wrote:I think the short of it is it is irrelevant if he's actually guilty of the PED's or not. The due process in law would get him off, which is why he "wishes" it could be in court - the NFL is another story. The NFL might just say, "There's enough evidence and we trust the tester enough to feel confident that the test isn't tainted" and slap the suspension.

    My thoughts on that are pretty simple: That's a slippery slope approach by the NFL if they choose to suspend him. They really open themselves up to major scrutiny, polarizing opinions, and other bad press if they go through with it. If I were the NFL, I'd re-evaluate who my testing facility is and ensure that they are rock solid and play by the book to the point that their process can be held up in a court of law. Goodell knows that the "court of the NFL" is losing some luster - and this suspension will put the NFL under the microscope real quick.


    ASSUMING the seal was broken.

    I completely agree that the test should be thrown out if the seal was broken. Right now that is Sherman's CLAIM. This has not been verified anywhere that I have read it. Unless Sherman has some proof it would be his words against or agreed upon by someone else. The lab needs to concur / the tester - if they both reject it you have a guy that was found guilty (he is appealing) vs the people that have nothing to gain the testers.

    If seal can be proven broken no way he should be suspended. But this is why you don't accept that test if you see it being taken in this manner. You can't prove it yourself after the fact....... It is not about objecting at the time it is about refusing that test to be mailed in. You don't sign the bag, you call the NFL you piss in a separate cup that you have sealed up
    2014 inagural .net Survivor pool CHAMPION
    mikeak
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3848
    Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:24 pm
    Location: Anchorage, AK


  • mikeak wrote:
    nsport wrote:I think the short of it is it is irrelevant if he's actually guilty of the PED's or not. The due process in law would get him off, which is why he "wishes" it could be in court - the NFL is another story. The NFL might just say, "There's enough evidence and we trust the tester enough to feel confident that the test isn't tainted" and slap the suspension.

    My thoughts on that are pretty simple: That's a slippery slope approach by the NFL if they choose to suspend him. They really open themselves up to major scrutiny, polarizing opinions, and other bad press if they go through with it. If I were the NFL, I'd re-evaluate who my testing facility is and ensure that they are rock solid and play by the book to the point that their process can be held up in a court of law. Goodell knows that the "court of the NFL" is losing some luster - and this suspension will put the NFL under the microscope real quick.


    ASSUMING the seal was broken.

    I completely agree that the test should be thrown out if the seal was broken. Right now that is Sherman's CLAIM. This has not been verified anywhere that I have read it. Unless Sherman has some proof it would be his words against or agreed upon by someone else. The lab needs to concur / the tester - if they both reject it you have a guy that was found guilty (he is appealing) vs the people that have nothing to gain the testers.

    If seal can be proven broken no way he should be suspended. But this is why you don't accept that test if you see it being taken in this manner. You can't prove it yourself after the fact....... It is not about objecting at the time it is about refusing that test to be mailed in. You don't sign the bag, you call the NFL you piss in a separate cup that you have sealed up


    Knowing quite a lot about the topic of chain of custody (my profession) - I can tell you that it absolutely had nothing to do with Sherman seeing that the seal was broken when it was submitted. This must have been an after-the-fact situation - and I can tell you the most likely scenario here is that the information got back to him through some (somewhat) reputable source. Likely by way of his lawyers. The fact he's making it public is likely due to advice from his attorneys as well.

    At the end of the day, much of what you say is the due process that should normally be followed. If Sherman's claim is corroborated by anyone with authority within the process, the suspension will be thrown out. If it's just a fictitious story based on hearsay and conjecture, then it could end with the same predictability as a coin flip. If indeed none of what he says is true or even tangentially accurate, the suspension will be upheld.
    Image
    User avatar
    nsport
    * NET Sports Handicapper *
     
    Posts: 1477
    Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:13 am


  • mikeak wrote:One thing to note is that all reports of a broken seal are from Sherman. That is his defense so he is obviously believing that it was so / claiming it was so.

    The one article states "if confirmed by the tester"

    a few points

    1) If confirmed by the tester I do 100% agree it should be thrown out. Sorry none of us would accept getting fired / suspended from our jobs based on faulty testing

    2) I am sorry Sherman but if you were clean and went in there to take the test AND saw that the leaking cup, broken seal etc what are you claiming as your excuse not to request a new test? How come you are using this information post result and not prior? Like many others I have done the piss test and you better believe I looked at the cup, I signed a sealed cup and I saw it all sealed up in front of me. If there were any irregularities I would have requested that we do it all over again even if I had to down a few bottles of juice. If my livelihood is on the line I would make sure things were done right. Not take the test and then LATER complain about bad testing procedures.......


    If the seal was broken, he did not realize he would test positive at that point, so he did not care, but when he was told he tested positive, he realized this could be a reason. You always go into a test with the expectation of not being positive if you did nothing wrong, then if it shows up as positive, then you start thinking what was wrong.

    Regardless, if the specimen was tampered with due to technicality, it is grounds for dismissal.
    seahawks08
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 659
    Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:15 pm


  • The problem is...if the suspension IS upheld, then we would not see Sherm until the Super Bowl...if we can get there without him. And then only if we are a WC to get that one extra game.
    Image
    "Make good teams look bad and make bad teams look terrible!" -Michael Robinson
    User avatar
    BlueTalons
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1189
    Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:36 am
    Location: Spanaway, WA


  • nsport wrote:Knowing quite a lot about the topic of chain of custody (my profession) - I can tell you that it absolutely had nothing to do with Sherman seeing that the seal was broken when it was submitted. This must have been an after-the-fact situation - and I can tell you the most likely scenario here is that the information got back to him through some (somewhat) reputable source. Likely by way of his lawyers. The fact he's making it public is likely due to advice from his attorneys as well.

    At the end of the day, much of what you say is the due process that should normally be followed. If Sherman's claim is corroborated by anyone with authority within the process, the suspension will be thrown out. If it's just a fictitious story based on hearsay and conjecture, then it could end with the same predictability as a coin flip. If indeed none of what he says is true or even tangentially accurate, the suspension will be upheld.


    We agree 100% on the basic issue - if proven / confirmed that seals were broken then it gets thrown out. If just his story not collaborated at all then probably upheld or everyone would be able to claim this

    I read the items below as it was something Sherman had seen. If it was through information by others then a whole different situation I understand why he would have taken the test.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/87747 ... cup-source

    and specifically

    has argued that his urine specimen was contaminated while being collected for testing, a league source told ESPN.

    A major part of Sherman's appeal, which was heard Friday, involved his claim that the cup containing his urine specimen was leaking, prompting the collector to place a second cup underneath it to capture any leakage,

    Sherman stated that the second cup's seal already had been broken before being used to stop the leakage from his cup
    2014 inagural .net Survivor pool CHAMPION
    mikeak
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3848
    Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:24 pm
    Location: Anchorage, AK


  • seahawks08 wrote:If the seal was broken, he did not realize he would test positive at that point, so he did not care, but when he was told he tested positive, he realized this could be a reason. You always go into a test with the expectation of not being positive if you did nothing wrong, then if it shows up as positive, then you start thinking what was wrong.

    Regardless, if the specimen was tampered with due to technicality, it is grounds for dismissal.


    He went to Stanford there should be at least two working brain cells in his brain.

    Of course you care if the seal is broken. You know you are clean so you do care about the procedure. If you are not clean then you hope for a broken seal heck you could even try to create problems in there as it would help you......

    Like everyone else I hope he doesn't get suspended. Huge blow to the team. With that said if he is guilty of taking something and the testing was done right the suspension should stand. If testing was flawed / he didn't take anything (which he shouldn't have to argue if testing was flawed) then he should not get suspended. Simple really
    2014 inagural .net Survivor pool CHAMPION
    mikeak
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3848
    Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:24 pm
    Location: Anchorage, AK



  • If there was a broken seal involved then the NFL is in a difficult spot cause it sounds like Sherman might be willing to get an attorney outside the NFL and continue.

    NFL wants all the players to bow down to them on all things and be governed by them also in all matters. If they allow him to go outside football and start further legal proceedings its going to put them in a bad light.

    :roll:
    Image
    On to week two. Week one was not a fluke!
    User avatar
    The Radish
    * NET Radish *
     
    Posts: 18655
    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:18 pm
    Location: Spokane, Wa.


  • pehawk wrote:
    NJSeaHawk wrote:Feel free to post decision on this thread, as I foresee at least 5 of them being started Thursday


    http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6660/richard-sherman

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/24/report-richard-sherman-appeal-ruling-coming-thursday/

    https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/283305258644561920

    an update from Florio, who I know isnt the most popular writer...But he has some interesting points
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/24/sherman-would-pursue-his-appeal-in-court-if-he-could/

    As Seahawks cornerback Richard Sherman waits for a ruling on the appeal of his suspension, he’s inclined to push the issue to court — if he can.

    “I wish I could,” Sherman said regarding the possibility of the Wapner-Llewelyn option after Sunday night’s thumping of the 49ers. “I don’t know if it’s possible. If I could pursue it further, because I’d win in a neutral court, but I don’t know if I can pursue it further.”

    Technically, he can pursue the matter in court. But he’d have to prove that the outcome of the arbitration procedure that arises from the collective bargaining process should be disregarded, and that’s a high standard.

    Others have tried, and few (if any) have prevailed. The problem is that the players don’t have the tools at their disposal to challenge irregularities in the collection and testing of their urine samples.


    Thanks, Melissa.


    You're welcome Melissa! Glad to hear the surgery was successful. Sounds like the breasts are coming in nicely! Now you can get that pink pehawk jersey !
    Image
    User avatar
    NJSeaHawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2449
    Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 5:42 am
    Location: New Joisey


  • The Radish wrote:If there was a broken seal involved then the NFL is in a difficult spot cause it sounds like Sherman might be willing to get an attorney outside the NFL and continue.

    NFL wants all the players to bow down to them on all things and be governed by them also in all matters. If they allow him to go outside football and start further legal proceedings its going to put them in a bad light.

    :roll:


    yes, and if that's the case they will cave in immediately and waive the suspension.
    Image
    "God Bless Russell Wilson"
    User avatar
    Chukarhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1812
    Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:14 pm


  • mikeak wrote:
    nsport wrote:Knowing quite a lot about the topic of chain of custody (my profession) - I can tell you that it absolutely had nothing to do with Sherman seeing that the seal was broken when it was submitted. This must have been an after-the-fact situation - and I can tell you the most likely scenario here is that the information got back to him through some (somewhat) reputable source. Likely by way of his lawyers. The fact he's making it public is likely due to advice from his attorneys as well.

    At the end of the day, much of what you say is the due process that should normally be followed. If Sherman's claim is corroborated by anyone with authority within the process, the suspension will be thrown out. If it's just a fictitious story based on hearsay and conjecture, then it could end with the same predictability as a coin flip. If indeed none of what he says is true or even tangentially accurate, the suspension will be upheld.


    We agree 100% on the basic issue - if proven / confirmed that seals were broken then it gets thrown out. If just his story not collaborated at all then probably upheld or everyone would be able to claim this

    I read the items below as it was something Sherman had seen. If it was through information by others then a whole different situation I understand why he would have taken the test.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/87747 ... cup-source

    and specifically

    has argued that his urine specimen was contaminated while being collected for testing, a league source told ESPN.

    A major part of Sherman's appeal, which was heard Friday, involved his claim that the cup containing his urine specimen was leaking, prompting the collector to place a second cup underneath it to capture any leakage,

    Sherman stated that the second cup's seal already had been broken before being used to stop the leakage from his cup


    Ah yes - good thank you. I did not see this part of the argument (ESPN Article). If indeed the seal is corroborated as broken and identified as such in any documentation or by direct witness testimony, the test SHOULD be thrown out. Just because it's leaking out, doesn't mean that bad stuff isn't leaking in. In this scenario - again as others stated, it does not matter if Sherman is guilty or not, it is the process that has no integrity, therefore the results of the process should be invalidated.
    Image
    User avatar
    nsport
    * NET Sports Handicapper *
     
    Posts: 1477
    Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:13 am


  • Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
    As Seahawks CB Richard Sherman tweeted, he has won his appeal and avoided a four-game suspension. Huge news for Seattle.
    Image
    User avatar
    HawkAroundTheClock
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1645
    Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:30 pm
    Location: Olympia




It is currently Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:39 am

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE OFFICIAL NET NATION FAN FORUM ]




Information