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 Post subject: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:48 pm 
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You may question why Russell Wilson of all players might have a hand in this, but as teams watched the Seahawks, one of the many teams in the league with a good supporting cast, but no QB, succeed with a rookie 3rd rounder while they floundered, missing the playoffs, many teams became impatient, firing a record number of head coaches and general managers.

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But the officials are citing a more important factor. Owners are looking around the sport in places like Seattle, San Francisco, Washington and Indianapolis, seeing the success of young throwers and young programs, and asking why in the Hell aren't they having similar success?

The name Russell Wilson was pointed to on Monday as a grand example of why so many people got fired so quickly. Owners in places like Cleveland and Jacksonville might have been asking why didn't their franchises discover Wilson, who was the 12th pick in the third round? And how is it that a franchise like Seattle can develop him so quickly and our franchise cannot?

Andrew Luck is one thing; he was the first overall pick. But when franchises start finding franchise throwers in the third round and the failing teams do not, then someone is getting fired.


Poor Jacksonville. Drafting a punter in front of Russell Wilson? Gene Smith didn't survive long after that move.


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:49 pm 
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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61409

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Seahawk Sailor wrote:
http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61409


That's on whether our coaches will get poached, I started a thread on how Russell Wilson's success caused a lot of firings. Kinda close though I guess, sorry if it's a little too repetitive.


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:04 pm 
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Really, it's more Pete Carroll and John Schneider's success being the main causes for these firings, not RW, but I guess it's the same thing.

Edit: "main causes" is not the right word. Maybe a secondary cause, though.

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Like it's Wilson's fault that other teams have lazy scouting processes.

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:13 pm 
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hawksfan515 wrote:
Seahawk Sailor wrote:
http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61409


That's on whether our coaches will get poached, I started a thread on how Russell Wilson's success caused a lot of firings. Kinda close though I guess, sorry if it's a little too repetitive.


He's referring to the fact that the link was posted in that thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:13 pm 
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Recon_Hawk wrote:
Really, it's more Pete Carroll and John Schneider's success being the main causes for these firings, not RW, but I guess it's the same thing.


Teams want that as well. They want those guys who can find talent like that. I'm sure they haven't been blind to our teams success at finding talent, they are for sure wondering how Pete Carroll went and found a guy like John Schneider, who in turn found steals like Wilson, Sherman, Kam, and hit on 1st rounders consistently.


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:14 pm 
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RolandDeschain wrote:
hawksfan515 wrote:
Seahawk Sailor wrote:
http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61409


That's on whether our coaches will get poached, I started a thread on how Russell Wilson's success caused a lot of firings. Kinda close though I guess, sorry if it's a little too repetitive.


He's referring to the fact that the link was posted in that thread.



ohh, oops, I missed that. My bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:17 pm 
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Well, a lot of them SHOULD be questioned and held responsible.

At the NFL level, you are expected to be a genius. You are expected to be the best of the best. That's how they are paid, so why shouldn't they? It's true for the players as well.

And let's face the facts here. 31 other teams passed on Russell Wilson. Some of those teams really needed a QB, and the QB position is possibly the sole factor that kept them out of the playoffs. Owners are correct in demanding that their management be able to spot potential in players like RW, and take a risk.

If you had cancer, would you hire a doctor that was aware of every possible treatment and who was willing to explore those treatment options? Or would you choose the guy who always goes by the book, never tries anything, and isn't aware of the most current research? I know who I would choose.

There is a reason why the creme of the crop are what they are. Or to paraphrase a great doctor who I once worked with:

If you only listen to "common sense", you will never achieve uncommon success.


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:19 pm 
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/87955 ... uars-fired

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The Jaguars fired general manager Gene Smith on Monday


Draft 2012
3rd Round 70th Pick Bryan Anger Punter Jaguars
3rd Round 75th Pick Russell Wilson QB Seahawks


Hhhhhmmmmm?? LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:29 pm 
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HansGruber wrote:
Well, a lot of them SHOULD be questioned and held responsible.

At the NFL level, you are expected to be a genius. You are expected to be the best of the best. That's how they are paid, so why shouldn't they? It's true for the players as well.

And let's face the facts here. 31 other teams passed on Russell Wilson. Some of those teams really needed a QB, and the QB position is possibly the sole factor that kept them out of the playoffs. Owners are correct in demanding that their management be able to spot potential in players like RW, and take a risk.

If you had cancer, would you hire a doctor that was aware of every possible treatment and who was willing to explore those treatment options? Or would you choose the guy who always goes by the book, never tries anything, and isn't aware of the most current research? I know who I would choose.

There is a reason why the creme of the crop are what they are. Or to paraphrase a great doctor who I once worked with:

If you only listen to "common sense", you will never achieve uncommon success.

You nailed it.

PC and JS have turned around a franchise in less than 3 years, now. Its a fantastic accomplishment. One not easily duplicated, but as an owner seeing perhaps years of poor management with their own franchise, it's natural to want what other teams have, and if they aren't getting that, then it's on to the next guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:15 pm 
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Fired by owners that in many cases would have vetoed drafting RW in the first round

Funny


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:16 pm 
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twisted_steel2 wrote:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8795520/gene-smith-jacksonville-jaguars-fired

Quote:
The Jaguars fired general manager Gene Smith on Monday


Draft 2012
3rd Round 70th Pick Bryan Anger Punter Jaguars
3rd Round 75th Pick Russell Wilson QB Seahawks


Hhhhhmmmmm?? LOL


In their defense they do a lot of punting :)


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Man, wouldn't it be great to have a job like Mel Kiper Jr.? No accountability required? He basically tore our last two drafts apart bit by bit and he has no danger of losing his job at all.

That's why I pay attention to Mike Mayock, Emdiggy, and the Seahawks draft blog site for draft news. I also enjoy NFL Draft countdown from time to time.


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:01 pm 
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twisted_steel2 wrote:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8795520/gene-smith-jacksonville-jaguars-fired

Quote:
The Jaguars fired general manager Gene Smith on Monday


Draft 2012
3rd Round 70th Pick Bryan Anger Punter Jaguars
3rd Round 75th Pick Russell Wilson QB Seahawks


Hhhhhmmmmm?? LOL


Jaguar FO: "Wow, He must really kick the hell out of the ball with a name like that." "That short quarterback is still available?" "Nah, Let's go with the angry punter he'll fit in perfect."


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:41 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:49 pm 
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mikeak wrote:
Fired by owners that in many cases would have vetoed drafting RW in the first round

Funny


This is very true. Wilson could have been the 3rd overall pick, rather than going in the third round, and they'd have gotten their money's worth. It's easy to look at it with hindsight, but his numbers in college were hugely impressive. As soon as we drafted him, I looked up his numbers; his play this year should have come as no surprise to anyone. But it's that "do it like the book" mentality that would have gotten folks canned for taking him where his play merited.

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:55 pm 
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I don't really understand where Mel Kiper came from and why he is the be-all end-all. I doubt very seriously Pete Carroll and John Schneider look to him for advice


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:15 pm 
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HansGruber wrote:
If you had cancer, would you hire a doctor that was aware of every possible treatment and who was willing to explore those treatment options? Or would you choose the guy who always goes by the book, never tries anything, and isn't aware of the most current research? I know who I would choose.

There is a reason why the creme of the crop are what they are. Or to paraphrase a great doctor who I once worked with:

If you only listen to "common sense", you will never achieve uncommon success.


Great analogy. Also that last part sounds a bit like my sig.


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:34 pm 
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But, but, but ... RW is only 5ft10. No QB in the history of the NFL has ever had any type of success at that height.
I strongly believe that lots of GM failures is due to networks like ESPN, FOX, NFL Network.

Does anyone of you remember what Mel Kiper said about Russell Wilson said on draft day? Well, unfortunately lots of GMs listen to crap like that.
Here are high draft pick QBs that were pushed by Mel Kiper and the ESPN crew: Tim Couch (Cleveland), first round, David Carr (Houston, first round), Brady Quinn was supposed to be a steal at #22, Jimmy Clausen was supposed to be a first round pick. Jimmy Clausen Career in Carolina: 10 starts, 3 TDs, 9INTs.
This is a great one from Mel Kiper: comparing JaMarcus Russell to John Elway ... lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZubYpplmzVk
Seahawk Sailor wrote:
mikeak wrote:
Fired by owners that in many cases would have vetoed drafting RW in the first round

Funny


This is very true. Wilson could have been the 3rd overall pick, rather than going in the third round, and they'd have gotten their money's worth. It's easy to look at it with hindsight, but his numbers in college were hugely impressive. As soon as we drafted him, I looked up his numbers; his play this year should have come as no surprise to anyone. But it's that "do it like the book" mentality that would have gotten folks canned for taking him where his play merited.

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:51 pm 
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"RUSSELL WILSON: why didn't you think of that!?" LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:30 pm 
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I'm sure Jon Gruden's prognostications during the draft will factor into his receiving one of the just opened head coaching gigs. Noone I heard (other than Kearly :) ) was more of a Wilson advocate from early on.

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:09 am 
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IMHO, it has as much to do with the basic philosophy of how to build a team as anything else. We had that argument here ad infinitum. What do you do?

1. Do you draft a "franchise QB" and build a team around him?

or

2. Do you build a team that can hold it's own and win a few games and then look for "that guy" to lead it.

Most teams go with option 1, because "It's just so hard to find that guy so you have to grab him when you have the chance." PC&JS went option 2 and it's paying off this year, and presumably into the forseeable future.

It seems that most people who think in category 1 also have a strong feeling, nurtured over many years, of jealousy for other teams that have players like the Peyton Mannings and John Elways and whomever, the list goes on and on. I've felt it myself, all Seahawks fans deal with that. ;)

Those who favor option 2 are called wimps because they "fear" to make the move to get that Number 1 guy, because they point out how many times teams are hamstrung by mistakes at the high end of the draft board, with guys making huge salaries they don't deserve while playing like crap and losing tons of games.

I was with P&J when they refused to go against their own basic strategy and take a "sexy" pick at QB over some less sexy picks like O-line and LB. But they've built a real team, and Wilson walked into a situation that all QBs would dream of, IMO. We already had a good running game and a solid D in place and growing and improving when Russ took his first snap. We were able to nurture him and bring him along slowly (too slowly, perhaps) so he wasn't shell-shocked or injured early in his career and developed quite nicely. Russ has put up some pretty good numbers for a QB on a "run first" team, don't you think?

We've set an example of how to build a team that I'm afraid many owners still won't support, because our methods don't get the high media exposure players that they think puts butts in the seats. In the end, though, nothing puts fans in the stands like consistantly winning games and trips to the playoffs.

We've done well. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:21 am 
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HansGruber wrote:
......If you had cancer, would you hire a doctor that was aware of every possible treatment and who was willing to explore those treatment options? Or would you choose the guy who always goes by the book, never tries anything, and isn't aware of the most current research?........

Thank you, but I'll pass on Tim Ruskell as my doctor.

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:07 pm 
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How many teams that passed on Flynn, will now maybe give him a second look, because Pete and John scooped him up with the likely intention of making him the starter?
At the time we got Flynn, there was NO guarantee that we'd get Wilson, let alone to haveing Wilson shake out the starting job.
With all the HC, AND GM fireings, will some of those teams be in the bidding for Flynn now?


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:17 pm 
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More proof that the safe route is usually the fastest way to failure.

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:16 pm 
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If you are the Eagles, the Chiefs, the Jets, the Cardinals, the Bills, even the Bucs, Chargers ... wouldn't you want to take a look?
Poor QB play is a guarantee for failure in this league. Just ask Romeo Crenel ( Kansas City) or Norv Turner ( San Diego ) or the Arizona Cards (AZ)....
scutterhawk wrote:
How many teams that passed on Flynn, will now maybe give him a second look, because Pete and John scooped him up with the likely intention of making him the starter?
At the time we got Flynn, there was NO guarantee that we'd get Wilson, let alone to haveing Wilson shake out the starting job.
With all the HC, AND GM fireings, will some of those teams be in the bidding for Flynn now?

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:03 pm 
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joeseahawks wrote:
If you are the Eagles, the Chiefs, the Jets, the Cardinals, the Bills, even the Bucs, Chargers ... wouldn't you want to take a look?
Poor QB play is a guarantee for failure in this league. Just ask Romeo Crenel ( Kansas City) or Norv Turner ( San Diego ) or the Arizona Cards (AZ)....
scutterhawk wrote:
How many teams that passed on Flynn, will now maybe give him a second look, because Pete and John scooped him up with the likely intention of making him the starter?
At the time we got Flynn, there was NO guarantee that we'd get Wilson, let alone to haveing Wilson shake out the starting job.
With all the HC, AND GM fireings, will some of those teams be in the bidding for Flynn now?

Yeah, that was my point exactly, and with that in mind, Flynn's value should garner some intrest in trade, when draft time comes rolling around.
There are a couple of real possible QB gems in this draft, but there are fewer Quarterbacks available than needed or even available to upgrade around the League.
Would a third round swap for Flynn be possible there?
Could have put this in the Flynn thread, but with all the HC and GM fireings, I thought it more pertinent to the discussion here.


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:17 pm 
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Russ Willstrong wrote:
twisted_steel2 wrote:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8795520/gene-smith-jacksonville-jaguars-fired

Quote:
The Jaguars fired general manager Gene Smith on Monday


Draft 2012
3rd Round 70th Pick Bryan Anger Punter Jaguars
3rd Round 75th Pick Russell Wilson QB Seahawks


Hhhhhmmmmm?? LOL


Jaguar FO: "Wow, He must really kick the hell out of the ball with a name like that." "That short quarterback is still available?" "Nah, Let's go with the angry punter he'll fit in perfect."


You guys are missing something. The only thing the Jaguars do is punt. It's not going to change when they sign Tebow.

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:36 pm 
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More importnat then who and when is whether the guy you target fits your system or maybe more important yet will you adapt it to fit him.

We have flexed how we do stuff with Wilson yet still maintained our core principles of running the ball.

Many Front offices go after the name guy but don't look at how he fits in their system and or will say they can fix him or change him to fit it. FAILURE.

Montana had a system that was adapted for him, Manning in both Indy and now Denver has a system catered to his skill sets. Only guy that I see that has been system dictated is Brady. Brees is also a guy that they adapted a system for his skill set. It could be looked at in many places through out the years. Inflexible coaches and GM's that don't understand the offense they are adding players to or Coaches that can't adapt fail.

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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:11 pm 
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SonicHawk wrote:
You guys are missing something. The only thing the Jaguars do is punt. It's not going to change when they sign Tebow.


Can you imagine Wilson with a player like Blackmon to throw the ball to??

OH MY


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 Post subject: Re: Why so many firings? Russell Wilson part of reason why
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:08 pm 
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gargantual wrote:
I'm sure Jon Gruden's prognostications during the draft will factor into his receiving one of the just opened head coaching gigs. Noone I heard (other than Kearly :) ) was more of a Wilson advocate from early on.

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