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SeAhAwKeR4life
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Post subject: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:27 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:43 pm Posts: 3941 Location: Blyn, WA
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A million dollars to shut down a medicinal cannabis dispensary; where's the justice, how is it worth that? Yeah, we definitely need to be cutting unemployment, food stamps and disability to afford this! Quote: When Matthew R. Davies was growing and selling medical marijuana in California, the 34-year-old father of two "hired accountants, compliance lawyers, managers, a staff of 75 and a payroll firm. He paid California sales tax and filed for state and local business permits," the New York Times reports. Unfortunately for him, federal agents raided his business, and "the United States attorney for the Eastern District of California, Benjamin B. Wagner, a 2009 Obama appointee, wants Mr. Davies to agree to a plea that includes a mandatory minimum of five years in prison." Let's set the legal questions aside and think through the costs of this course:
*The opportunity cost of focusing on other crimes *$235,000 in incarceration costs *Two young girls with an absent father *Substantial lost tax revenue from his operation *Other marijuana sellers going underground *Less savory drug dealers, including violent cartels, getting more business *More of a hassle for sick medical marijuana patients to get their prescription filled
Doesn't that seem awfully "expensive" when the only real benefit is sending the message that you can't get away with openly flouting federal drug laws? If that's the biggest benefit you can plausibly claim, isn't that a sign that the law should change? After all, it isn't as if anyone believes that sending Davies to jail is going to make victory in the drug war any more plausible. Or appreciably decrease the number of people smoking marijuana. Or even significantly diminish the supply, since there's always another person growing on the black market... Now I know most of us will agree, this is just wrong. Just consider though, in these financial hard times, how much is our "justice" system costing us, and what value do we get from it? Scant little so far as I can see. Obviously violent offenders need to be kept from society, but the attacks over trivialities like this are disgusting. Jefferson county WA spends more of the state's money than any other county on appeals, and we are the most rural (well I say we, but I used to live there), because they will appeal EVERY decision against them, all the way to the supreme court. This Judge who said this said they literally have never failed to appeal any decision against them. The court system is just as corrupt as many others and it's time we stop putting up with it.
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:30 am |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm Posts: 2365
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As long as it's federally illegal I have no problem with the operation.
I don't understand how you can say the court system is corrupt in this case?
Change the laws.
_________________ RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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SeAhAwKeR4life
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:36 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:43 pm Posts: 3941 Location: Blyn, WA
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I didn't mean to say corrupt per se, but wasteful and stupid. The court system everywhere has varying degrees of corruptness, but they are wasting money on something the president lied about not pursuing. If they (federal prosecutors) don't see that have better things to do than go after guys like this, they need to be replaced. Bet a dollar to a hole in a doughnut, this prosecutor, prosecuted the case because it was a slam dunk. A win looks good on the record, but justice isn't served.
You honestly think this is a responsible use of taxpayer dollars, going against legally enacted California state law?
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SeAhAwKeR4life
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:42 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:43 pm Posts: 3941 Location: Blyn, WA
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Oh and yeah, that would be nice to change the laws, but at the federal level, we have no voice, no referendum system. We have to rely on Congress, the most useless government body the world has ever known (the House), and it's ugly sister (the senate). So what pray tell can we do to change such laws when much of the country has their head so far up their ass on so many issues? You're still gonna have morons, who understand nothing about cannabis, voting based on ignorant knee-jerk reactions. Plus, lobbyists know, drug companies can't patent pot, so they are gonna buy off whoever we elect.
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:51 am |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm Posts: 10257 Location: Anchorage, AK
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SeAhAwKeR4life wrote: Oh and yeah, that would be nice to change the laws, but at the federal level, we have no voice, no referendum system. We have to rely on Congress, the most useless government body the world has ever known (the House), and it's ugly sister (the senate). So what pray tell can we do to change such laws when much of the country has their head so far up their ass on so many issues? You're still gonna have morons, who understand nothing about cannabis, voting based on ignorant knee-jerk reactions. Plus, lobbyists know, drug companies can't patent pot, so they are gonna buy off whoever we elect. Not arguing any of the other points (just wanted to get that in there before you go off half cocked) I do want to point out that drug companies don't need to patent something to profit from something. Drug companies do hold patents to drugs they personally spent millions of research dollars on and rightfully so, but the cost of production of marijuana would be very small, so they could manufacture and sell it via prescription if it were made legal and make good profit from it without all the research dollars spent.
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SeAhAwKeR4life
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:56 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:43 pm Posts: 3941 Location: Blyn, WA
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Well sure kid, but what I'm saying, is that now, with a medical card, a few dollars in supplies, I can supply something for myself (should I need it) that would allow me to forgo using drug company products. While I'm sure not all drug companies are lobbying against legalization, many are.
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kidhawk
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:31 am |
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 pm Posts: 10257 Location: Anchorage, AK
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SeAhAwKeR4life wrote: Well sure kid, but what I'm saying, is that now, with a medical card, a few dollars in supplies, I can supply something for myself (should I need it) that would allow me to forgo using drug company products. While I'm sure not all drug companies are lobbying against legalization, many are. That is because of the way it's legalized. If they make it legal only via prescription legally nationwide, do you not believe the drug companies would manufacture and sell it at a nice little profit? In a similar way to which the insurance companies got the mandate into the health care legislation. You lobby against something long enough you end up getting the powers that be to include you in the process and you can make a good little profit of the new law. Just as insurance companies stand to make massive profits from the new health care law, so will the drug companies when they get the right legislation in front of Congress at the proper time.
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DTexHawk
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:53 am |
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 5:55 am Posts: 3262
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Another government problem.
Amazing that anyone thinks government can fix anything.
_________________ That's weak sauce!
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SmokinHawk
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:13 pm |
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am Posts: 4738 Location: Not Umatilla, Oregon
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SonicHawk wrote: As long as it's federally illegal I have no problem with the operation.
I don't understand how you can say the court system is corrupt in this case?
Change the laws. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the 10th Amendment. You know, that silly law in our Constitution which says that the states have the rights to regulate these things for themselves.
_________________ Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro
He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:21 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:40 am Posts: 1701
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SmokinHawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: As long as it's federally illegal I have no problem with the operation.
I don't understand how you can say the court system is corrupt in this case?
Change the laws. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the 10th Amendment. You know, that silly law in our Constitution which says that the states have the rights to regulate these things for themselves. It becomes a Federal issue when criminals traffic it across state lines.
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SmokinHawk
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:31 pm |
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am Posts: 4738 Location: Not Umatilla, Oregon
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12evanf wrote: SmokinHawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: As long as it's federally illegal I have no problem with the operation.
I don't understand how you can say the court system is corrupt in this case?
Change the laws. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the 10th Amendment. You know, that silly law in our Constitution which says that the states have the rights to regulate these things for themselves. It becomes a Federal issue when criminals traffic it across state lines. Well, that's great, when it involves a case of criminals trafficking it across state lines. In this case, it was a guy who was growing it as medicine, to be consumed in a state which recognizes it as medicine. If you think it's ok for the federal government to come in and bust the guy despite being in compliance with his state's regulations, then you're a morally broken individual.
_________________ Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro
He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:28 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm Posts: 2365
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Another relic from a bygone era.
_________________ RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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SmokinHawk
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:31 pm |
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Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:29 am Posts: 4738 Location: Not Umatilla, Oregon
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SonicHawk wrote: Another relic from a bygone era. Another morally broken individual who wants to foist his dystopian ideals on 330 million people because he can't understand why anyone could possibly see things different.
_________________ Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro
He is hold back the legion of boom - skater18000
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SonicHawk
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:42 pm |
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Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:56 pm Posts: 2365
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SmokinHawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: Another relic from a bygone era. Another morally broken individual who wants to foist his dystopian ideals on 330 million people because he can't understand why anyone could possibly see things different. Morally broken? Because I want to get rid of guns, unify my country and move forward together, pay enough taxes so everyone can have the basic necessities and have my children, family, neighbors and friends not be subject to 300M weapons of personal destruction? Yeah, I'm the morally broken one.
_________________ RIP ROAD WOES 12/2/2012
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SeAhAwKeR4life
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:21 pm |
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Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:43 pm Posts: 3941 Location: Blyn, WA
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SmokinHawk wrote: ...Well, that's great, when it involves a case of criminals trafficking it across state lines. In this case, it was a guy who was growing it as medicine, to be consumed in a state which recognizes it as medicine. If you think it's ok for the federal government to come in and bust the guy despite being in compliance with his state's regulations, then you're a morally broken individual. Damn straight!
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12evanf
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:42 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:40 am Posts: 1701
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SmokinHawk wrote: SonicHawk wrote: Another relic from a bygone era. Another morally broken individual who wants to foist his dystopian ideals on 330 million people because he can't understand why anyone could possibly see things different. You should not be giving lectures on morals. At least not on good morals. I was just reminding the class on why drugs are Federally illegal. Just because one state says its ok, doesn't make it ok in another state. This is where mom and dad step in. Its pretty absurd in this instance to go after a "by the books" operation in California, maybe there's more to the story, maybe there's not. Trafficking or publicly flying in the face of Federal law are the only two thoughts that come to my head on why this would happen. Maybe someone high up just had a bad day. It does seem unusual and wrong.
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fenderbender123
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Post subject: Re: Let's be austere regarding the needy, and spend like this! Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:07 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 pm Posts: 342
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I was actually thinking about this today while I was at work. Many of our criminal laws are very wasteful in regards to many different costs.
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