FLYNN AND WILSON

iigakusei · Jan 17, 2013

Do you see us drafting a developmental QB in Rounds 3-5 as a possibility?

Zowert · Jan 17, 2013

iigakusei":2cpoaqsz said:
Do you see us drafting a developmental QB in Rounds 3-5 as a possibility?

I can. If John and/or Pete see a worthwhile QB in the later rounds, I could definitely see them picking one. It can't hurt to have a QB developing on the team, even though Russell Wilson is young and could end up being the Seahawks starting quarterback for the next decade. You just never know what could happen. Not just talking about injuries either. We don't know for sure if RW will be the Seahawks quarterback after his rookie contract expires.

Money talks, and although I am quite positive Wilson is not the type that plays just for the money. Russ is intelligent and he has to realize this not just a game, but a business. As well as a career that's not like others, where you work around four decades then retire. But a career that only lasts a relatively small portion of your life and its not likely he will find a career that pays him the same kind of money when he's done with the NFL. So, RW is going to be looking out for his (and his family's) best interest come contract negotiations by getting as much money as he can. This means he could end up in a different uniform if a team offers him a contract that the Seahawks cannot match (for salary cap reasons).

Lets say Wilson ends up having no ceiling. He just gets better and better with no cap on his talent whatsoever. Every team in the NFL will then have Russell Wilson's contract date marked on their calenders. The day he hits free agency (if the Seahawks can't work out a contract extension during the last year of his contract) RW's agent will have 20+ voicemails within an hour. He will be fair game. We better hope for a few things then: Russ really likes it here in Seattle, he has a close relationship with teammates and coaching staff, he likes the direction the organization is going in, Paul Allen is ready to open up his checkbook and the Seahawks have a good amount of [salary] cap space.

Maybe an under-the-table bonus from Mr. Allen himself will keep Russ here. But if he really does end up being a phenom QB with no limit on his skills and overall talent. Other NFL teams will be willing to spend big, BIG money to get him on their roster.

So... That is why its good to have a QB developing, even when you have a solid starter. Get a rookie QB now, so that he is ready to start in three years. When RW's contract expires. Just in case our worst nightmare happens. If he does end up going elsewhere, I hope its in the AFC.

drdiags · Jan 17, 2013

iigakusei":1d6vvl0w said:
Do you see us drafting a developmental QB in Rounds 3-5 as a possibility?

Looks like the Skins got a pretty good deal from early results with Cousins. Folks around here liked him as well. The top-end QBs may be thin but there are always a good chance of hitting on decent QBs in the mid-rounds. Just not the Seahawks until last year. Greene and Teel didn't make it but then look at Flynn.

I bet there is some nuggets out there to be found. Just not sure you trade the only other QB on the 53-man roster until you have acquired that player. Which makes it tough since most teams would want to have the QB before the draft otherwise they have to draft with the thought in mind to grab a starter early. Which looks to be a stretch this year from what I hear.

loafoftatupu · Jan 17, 2013

The way I see this, no matter who the backup is, he is not going to be Russell Wilson. He will have to run different plays and there are different plays to run.

It isn't like you can have another QB come in an use Read/Option plays without having run them in practices, it takes a lot of timing with fluid execution to be done properly. This is why I do not see a need for a different QB than Flynn at backup. Now if Flynn is saying "Please get me out of here to a place I will start" I can see the team doing so, but if Flynn is just going to get traded to a team that he is asked to compete for the job? What's the difference?

Flynn is NOT making a fortune, he is making good money for a backup and like I said, if called upon, Flynn would be able to run any variety of plays that are not read option, providing a different look and someone who has made plays in real games with serious potential. I think Flynn stays another year, I think PC/JS will be scouting and looking for a guy and once they have confidence in that guy, Flynn will get moved, but not until then. It is only two more years anyways.. They can still get something for him next year.

Throwdown · Jan 17, 2013

John Schneider has said before he'd like to take a QB in every draft, I could see it happening, maybe Matt Scott outta Arizona? we'll find out some more names.

HawkAroundTheClock · Jan 17, 2013

iigakusei":1knc7dfk said:
Do you see us drafting a developmental QB in Rounds 3-5 as a possibility?

That's exactly what I was thinking. Go with a young, coachable, and CHEAP understudy to Mr. Wilson.

Heck, if we get a 3rd or 4th round pick for Flynn we could use it to select a backup QB who has started more games over his college career than Flynn has through college and in the NFL. Interesting.

RufusPorter · Jan 17, 2013

iigakusei":1nf241t5 said:
Do you see us drafting a developmental QB in Rounds 3-5 as a possibility?

I'd like to see us go a different route. Bring in an old salty veteran on the cheap... maybe a guy like Sage Rosenfels. I don't like the idea of another young guy behind a 1st year starter.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2658/sage-rosenfels

HawkAroundTheClock · Jan 17, 2013

I think it's funny that a guy like Rosenfels would be making a minimum salary around 2x that of Russell Wilson for another 2 seasons. I'm not saying that's a reason to not bring in a veteran, but it is funny.

Sgt. Largent · Jan 17, 2013

zayden185":1rzrrdte said:
My point is, there is absolutely ZERO reason to trade the guy.

Anytime you trade a player it's to maximize his value in relation to what you're paying him. Sure it's great to have a dependable backup like Flynn, but if you can;

1. Find a comparable backup for half the cost.
2. Get a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Then hell yeah it makes sense. Not only do you open up more cap space by dumping Flynn's salary, you get more draft picks to keep or trade up for a good player who will contribute to the team..........as opposed to keeping a player that's not contributing to the team, at least not as a starter.

olyfan63 · Jan 19, 2013

Standing in Pete and John's shoes, here's how I'd look at it:
- We were ONE (KEY) PLAY AWAY from the next round of the playoffs. A sack, a pressured incompletion, stopping a key running play better, etc.
- We were ONE PLAY AWAY from NFC West championship and home field advantage.
- We might be more than ONE PLAY AWAY from beating SAN FRAN and GREEN BAY in the PLAYOFFS.
- The most important KEY PLAYS we need are from our DEFENSIVE LINE, e.g., to pressure and sack Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Kevin Kolb.
- We might need better/deeper D-Line play to cope with SF's Colin Kaepernick as a veteran next year, and beat the 49ers when it matters.
- With about $8 million (or whatever the exact number is), we can probably get FIVE OR SIX PLAYS PER GAME that we aren't getting now.
- We can also upgrade by getting another BIG, FAST, DOMINANT WIDE RECEIVER. That will give us maybe ONE or TWO plays per game we aren't getting now.
- A better linebacker or two could give us another THREE or FOUR plays per game we aren't getting now.
- We will get THREE or FOUR PLAYS a game better from our more experienced O-LINE, Sweezy better, Carp back and healthy. An upgrade could make that higher. Upgrades take time.
- We will get THREE or FOUR PLAYS a game better on D from improvements by Irvin, Wagner, young non-Sherman/Browner DB's (Lane, Guy, Thurmond, etc.)
- This is a crap year for QB's in the draft. This is the peak of Flynn's value, this year.
- We were OVERALL LUCKY WITH INJURIES this last year. We could lose FIVE to EIGHT PLAYS per game through injuries next year if we aren't as fortunate.
- This team needs to upgrade our current talent pool by at least TEN PLAYS PER GAME, just to stay competitive at the same level and have a good shot at being improved.

MATT FLYNN IS GONE.

Here's what I expect PC/JS to DO:
- We will trade Flynn and get some value for Flynn. Picks, or a D-lineman, or a WR. Flynn to KC and sign-and-trade Dwayne Bowe could be a possibility, or trade to move up.
- PC/JS will try to trade to move up in the draft to grab a stud DL or WR.
- We will draft some stud D-Line talent, some DT up-the-middle push, early in our draft. We get a rookie who can pressure. +TWO PLAYS PER GAME.
- If we have a chance to draft a Green or Julio Jones type of WR by moving up, we will do that. +ONE PLAY PER GAME.
- We will pick a couple linebackers in the early/middle rounds, to replace Leroy Hill & compete with Malcolm Smith. +TWO PLAYS PER GAME.
- We will draft a developmental QB who can physically do many of the things Wilson can do, and has good work habits and upside. We lose TEN+ plays per game if he has to play.
- We will score another Jason Jones type of player in free agency. With J. Jones in the Atlanta game, never mind losing Clemons, we win. +TWO PLAYS PER GAME.
- We will try to draft or sign a DE to hedge against Clemons not coming back 100% or Irvin not developing as an every-down player.
- If the talent is there, I wouldn't be surprised if we pick up another OL in the draft or in free agency. Just not Tyler Polumbus.
- If the talent is there, a future-star TE wouldn't be a bad early round pick.
- I think we look for a mid-late round running back who could be a Terrell Davis or Alfred Morris type of back. (Recall TD was a 5th or 6th rounder)

My guess at what happens off the field:
- We trade Flynn to move up in the draft. Jacksonville, KC, someone will give us value for him. We get back his cap space.
- In the draft, we pick up a stud inside rush, runstopper DT, whoever PC/JS target, as our #1 pick. (Plan B: stud WR)
- In the draft, we pick up DL depth, LB depth, developmental QB, and WR depth.
- In free agency, we pick up more DL depth, and maybe more WR depth.

My guess at what happens on the field?
- We are less lucky with injuries. We (lose) -FIVE PLAYS per game compared to last year.
- We get better pass rush from new D-Line talent. We gain +TWO PLAYS per game over last year, net of Irvin improvement, new talent, etc.
- We get better O-Line play just by guys coming back from injury and overall improvement of young talent & meshing better. (Carpenter, Sweezy, Okung) +THREE PLAYS per game.
- Wilson is +TWO PLAYS per game better than last year.
- Our new DC is -TWO PLAYS per game worse than Gus Bradley was last year.
- Our LB corps is +ONE PLAY per game better than last year.
- Our secondary is +ONE PLAY per game better than last year.

Outcomes on the field, with our +TWO PLAYS per game team over last year:
- We lose to SF and the Lambs on the road. We win all other divison games, but lose one other road game. We go 8-0 at home again. Record: 13-3.
- SF is good again. They go 13-3 and wind up in a tie for the division.
- Depending on tie-breakers... We're either division champs or a wild card once again.
- If we win our division, we run the table at CLink in the playoffs, and on to the Super Bowl, and win that also, beating the Patriots 42-31.
If we lose the division tiebreaker to SF...
- We win playoffs round 1 at home, win playoffs division round on the road.
- We play SF in the NFC championship game.
- From here, it gets a little fuzzy. There are so many wildcards. What I'd like to see is that we win an epic game against SF on their field, head to the Super Bowl, and hand Brady and the Patriots yet another Super Bowl defeat.

pehawk · Jan 19, 2013

olyfan63":3vl8vzrh said:
Standing in Pete and John's shoes, here's how I'd look at it:
- We were ONE (KEY) PLAY AWAY from the next round of the playoffs. A sack, a pressured incompletion, stopping a key running play better, etc.
- We were ONE PLAY AWAY from NFC West championship and home field advantage.
- We might be more than ONE PLAY AWAY from beating SAN FRAN and GREEN BAY in the PLAYOFFS.
- The most important KEY PLAYS we need are from our DEFENSIVE LINE, e.g., to pressure and sack Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Kevin Kolb.
- We might need better/deeper D-Line play to cope with SF's Colin Kaepernick as a veteran next year, and beat the 49ers when it matters.
- With about $8 million (or whatever the exact number is), we can probably get FIVE OR SIX PLAYS PER GAME that we aren't getting now.
- We can also upgrade by getting another BIG, FAST, DOMINANT WIDE RECEIVER. That will give us maybe ONE or TWO plays per game we aren't getting now.
- A better linebacker or two could give us another THREE or FOUR plays per game we aren't getting now.
- We will get THREE or FOUR PLAYS a game better from our more experienced O-LINE, Sweezy better, Carp back and healthy. An upgrade could make that higher. Upgrades take time.
- We will get THREE or FOUR PLAYS a game better on D from improvements by Irvin, Wagner, young non-Sherman/Browner DB's (Lane, Guy, Thurmond, etc.)
- This is a crap year for QB's in the draft. This is the peak of Flynn's value, this year.
- We were OVERALL LUCKY WITH INJURIES this last year. We could lose FIVE to EIGHT PLAYS per game through injuries next year if we aren't as fortunate.
- This team needs to upgrade our current talent pool by at least TEN PLAYS PER GAME, just to stay competitive at the same level and have a good shot at being improved.

MATT FLYNN IS GONE.

Here's what I expect PC/JS to DO:
- We will trade Flynn and get some value for Flynn. Picks, or a D-lineman, or a WR. Flynn to KC and sign-and-trade Dwayne Bowe could be a possibility, or trade to move up.
- PC/JS will try to trade to move up in the draft to grab a stud DL or WR.
- We will draft some stud D-Line talent, some DT up-the-middle push, early in our draft. We get a rookie who can pressure. +TWO PLAYS PER GAME.
- If we have a chance to draft a Green or Julio Jones type of WR by moving up, we will do that. +ONE PLAY PER GAME.
- We will pick a couple linebackers in the early/middle rounds, to replace Leroy Hill & compete with Malcolm Smith. +TWO PLAYS PER GAME.
- We will draft a developmental QB who can physically do many of the things Wilson can do, and has good work habits and upside. We lose TEN+ plays per game if he has to play.
- We will score another Jason Jones type of player in free agency. With J. Jones in the Atlanta game, never mind losing Clemons, we win. +TWO PLAYS PER GAME.
- We will try to draft or sign a DE to hedge against Clemons not coming back 100% or Irvin not developing as an every-down player.
- If the talent is there, I wouldn't be surprised if we pick up another OL in the draft or in free agency. Just not Tyler Polumbus.
- If the talent is there, a future-star TE wouldn't be a bad early round pick.
- I think we look for a mid-late round running back who could be a Terrell Davis or Alfred Morris type of back. (Recall TD was a 5th or 6th rounder)

My guess at what happens off the field:
- We trade Flynn to move up in the draft. Jacksonville, KC, someone will give us value for him. We get back his cap space.
- In the draft, we pick up a stud inside rush, runstopper DT, whoever PC/JS target, as our #1 pick. (Plan B: stud WR)
- In the draft, we pick up DL depth, LB depth, developmental QB, and WR depth.
- In free agency, we pick up more DL depth, and maybe more WR depth.

My guess at what happens on the field?
- We are less lucky with injuries. We (lose) -FIVE PLAYS per game compared to last year.
- We get better pass rush from new D-Line talent. We gain +TWO PLAYS per game over last year, net of Irvin improvement, new talent, etc.
- We get better O-Line play just by guys coming back from injury and overall improvement of young talent & meshing better. (Carpenter, Sweezy, Okung) +THREE PLAYS per game.
- Wilson is +TWO PLAYS per game better than last year.
- Our new DC is -TWO PLAYS per game worse than Gus Bradley was last year.
- Our LB corps is +ONE PLAY per game better than last year.
- Our secondary is +ONE PLAY per game better than last year.

Outcomes on the field, with our +TWO PLAYS per game team over last year:
- We lose to SF and the Lambs on the road. We win all other divison games, but lose one other road game. We go 8-0 at home again. Record: 13-3.
- SF is good again. They go 13-3 and wind up in a tie for the division.
- Depending on tie-breakers... We're either division champs or a wild card once again.
- If we win our division, we run the table at CLink in the playoffs, and on to the Super Bowl, and win that also, beating the Patriots 42-31.
If we lose the division tiebreaker to SF...
- We win playoffs round 1 at home, win playoffs division round on the road.
- We play SF in the NFC championship game.
- From here, it gets a little fuzzy. There are so many wildcards. What I'd like to see is that we win an epic game against SF on their field, head to the Super Bowl, and hand Brady and the Patriots yet another Super Bowl defeat.

Remember when Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt stumbled upon "John Doe's" notebooks in Seven?

hawker232 · Jan 19, 2013

Anyone ponder about maybe NYJ would be willing to trade Coples for Flynn?

olyfan63 · Jan 20, 2013

pehawk":39qphp8o said:
olyfan63":39qphp8o said:

Standing in Pete and John's shoes, here's how I'd look at it:
- We were ONE (KEY) PLAY AWAY from the next round of the playoffs. A sack, a pressured incompletion, stopping a key running play better, etc.
...
- From here, it gets a little fuzzy. There are so many wildcards. What I'd like to see is that we win an epic game against SF on their field, head to the Super Bowl, and hand Brady and the Patriots yet another Super Bowl defeat.

Click to expand...

Remember when Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt stumbled upon "John Doe's" notebooks in Seven?

Hey, have some FUN with it. It's a LONG offseason. I dumped it all out there for fun, before I forget, and to look at later and see what comes true. You got anything better? I't'd be fun to hear your thoughts on what comes next. (or even just what you agree/disagree with in what I said, and why) Sure, I could have stopped at "FLYNN GETS TRADED". Sure, maybe I could start a "Front office moves predictions" thread. One thing about this front office, it's really interesting, and educational, to see how they think, what they believe, and the only thing that truly shows that is what they DO. (We've certainly learned they don't care about what national pundits think, rightly trust their own evaluations first, and it's been SWEET how they've shown us how clueless many of those national pundits are)

Bottom line, FLYNN GETS TRADED for value the team needs, and to free up cap space for value the team needs.

P.S. On the "notebooks" side, I'm only about 4700 posts behind you. Give me another 10 years and you're toast! :twisted: :twisted:

P.P.S. Sorry man, gotta run. My Harbaugh notebook is calling. That one's going to take some serious planning to do in the right way. I'm debating between Greed and Pride for him. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

olyfan63 · Jan 20, 2013

hawker232":3itco95i said:
Anyone ponder about maybe NYJ would be willing to trade Coples for Flynn?

Can't see that happening. It would be too good a trade for US. Coples has shown he can PLAY in the NFL. (So has Flynn) Just don't see the Jets deciding that Flynn is enough of an upgrade over Sanchez to justify giving away a key defensive player. Plus, Rex Ryan is a defense-oriented coach. He's not going to let go of a foundation piece like Coples.
I'd love to be wrong about this, though, and see Coples in a Seahawks uniform, for just the cost of Flynn.

I do bet da Jets would offer us Sanchez, straight across, for Flynn. This year, Wilson wasn't very good at butt-fumbles, so Sanchez would have an edge on him in that competition.

FLYNN AND WILSON

iigakusei

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