Thoughts on Bruce Irvin + Future

Bruce Irvin's Performance this year (SEA #1 Pick)

  • 1. Bad. look for someone better in Draft

    Votes: 5 2.9%
  • 2. Descent, but Should not have been 1st pick

    Votes: 59 34.3%
  • 3. Good, for his rookie year. He should be great next year.

    Votes: 95 55.2%
  • 4. Great. Worth 1st Pick, was the right choice

    Votes: 13 7.6%

  • Total voters
    172

jlwaters1

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TJH":18snn9tl said:
I would rather take the best available player appropriate to the draft position and pursue a pass rusher in a different slot.

He was the "best available player." Also you guys seem to forget we traded back with Philly and got more picks. So we were able to not only get the pass rusher we wanted we were able to get 2 more players. I beleive those were Jaye Howard and Winston Guy.
 

bestfightstory

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jlwaters1":12v2l1ks said:
TJH":12v2l1ks said:
I would rather take the best available player appropriate to the draft position and pursue a pass rusher in a different slot.

He was the "best available player."

Ummm that is obviously a matter of opinion.
 

jlwaters1

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TJH":3vdbobco said:
volsunghawk":3vdbobco said:
You also really can't just trot out crap like "great pass rushers are usually great right away" when there's ample evidence that many guys who end up with very good career numbers often start out slow.


The guys that start out slow are generally the all-around players because they are asked to do much more. Dedicatied specialist rushers generally have been good from the start. Irvin is about as far away from an all-around player as you possibly could have.

I'm not saying he was terrible, but I do not think he warrants his draft position as of yet and can be a huge vulnerability out there. I just get annoyed with the people who just spout out "OMGERD 8 sacks best of the rookies!!1" like that means anything by itself.

You're making no sense whatsoever. You say the great pass rushers start off fast. OK, we'll look at the list compiled by the other poster, he's comparable to virtually every single big time pass rusher. Only Aldon Smith, Von Miller, and Reggie White had better years. So it defeats your argument.

Futhermore to say "he wasn't worth the pick" is assinine. Who would "you" have picked. The pick is gone in any case, it's completely irrelevant at this point in time because it's now a sunk cost.
The fact is his production ranks him easily within the top 1/3 of the all the first round picks. So how does that make him "unworthy" of the pick?

The only 1st round rookies who were more impactfull were:

Luck, RG3, Doug Martin, Kalil, Harrison Smith, Kuechly, Zeitler, and then you could argue a few others like Trent Richardson, Mark Barron, Tannehill, ect..
 

XxxZagnutxxX

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He will work on his tecnique and add some meat in the offseason. I just hope he learns to slip some of the run blocks. He had a good year (voted #3).

My sig says all thats needed as far as his desire to excel.
 

lukerguy

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You guys are crazy. He led all rookies in sacks...He may not be the heir to the LEO throne, but he will be a 10.0 sacks guy per year, and that's definitely worth it. I also think Quinn will help him out. I honestly can't believe you guys sometimes... SMH
 

jlwaters1

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bestfightstory":1f3x9qi3 said:
jlwaters1":1f3x9qi3 said:
TJH":1f3x9qi3 said:
I would rather take the best available player appropriate to the draft position and pursue a pass rusher in a different slot.

He was the "best available player."

Ummm that is obviously a matter of opinion.

But the only opinion that matters is PC and JS. He was the "best available player" according to the 2 poeple who spent countless hours dissecting all the top-end prospects in the draft. And your going to tell me that they were wrong, base on your cursory reasearch? That makes alot of sense. I think I'll trust PC and JS over a bunch of internet posters.

But out of curiosity, who do you suppose was "worthy" of the pick?
 

CANHawk

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lukerguy":2vi2nec5 said:
You guys are crazy. He led all rookies in sacks...He may not be the heir to the LEO throne, but he will be a 10.0 sacks guy per year, and that's definitely worth it. I also think Quinn will help him out. I honestly can't believe you guys sometimes... SMH

No doubt. Has Golden Tate taught us nothing about these knee jerk proclamations of "this guy's a bum!"? The bad draft picks that we've had; EJ Wilson, Mark Legree, Kris Durham have all been jettisoned with extreme prejudice. If a guy is no good he'll be gone, regardless of where he was drafted. If he's sticks around, the staff will bring out the talent.

Have faith padawans...
 

AbsolutNET

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CANHawk":1ai6copa said:
lukerguy":1ai6copa said:
You guys are crazy. He led all rookies in sacks...He may not be the heir to the LEO throne, but he will be a 10.0 sacks guy per year, and that's definitely worth it. I also think Quinn will help him out. I honestly can't believe you guys sometimes... SMH

No doubt. Has Golden Tate taught us nothing about these knee jerk proclamations of "this guy's a bum!"? The bad draft picks that we've had; EJ Wilson, Mark Legree, Kris Durham have all been jettisoned with extreme prejudice. If a guy is no good he'll be gone, regardless of where he was drafted. If he's sticks around, the staff will bring out the talent.

Have faith padawans...

3 guys have voted "he's bad." 3 of 83 as of now. But you two can act like everyone here wants to cut him.
 

CANHawk

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AbsolutNET":358htmev said:
CANHawk":358htmev said:
lukerguy":358htmev said:
You guys are crazy. He led all rookies in sacks...He may not be the heir to the LEO throne, but he will be a 10.0 sacks guy per year, and that's definitely worth it. I also think Quinn will help him out. I honestly can't believe you guys sometimes... SMH

No doubt. Has Golden Tate taught us nothing about these knee jerk proclamations of "this guy's a bum!"? The bad draft picks that we've had; EJ Wilson, Mark Legree, Kris Durham have all been jettisoned with extreme prejudice. If a guy is no good he'll be gone, regardless of where he was drafted. If he's sticks around, the staff will bring out the talent.

Have faith padawans...

3 guys have voted "he's bad." 3 of 83 as of now. But you two can act like everyone here wants to cut him.

No, I'm just talking to those three guys. Gotsta smack that vocal minority into line sometimes...
 

bestfightstory

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jlwaters1":r0a7k3d6 said:
But the only opinion that matters is PC and JS. He was the "best available player" according to the 2 poeple who spent countless hours dissecting all the top-end prospects in the draft. And your going to tell me that they were wrong, base on your cursory reasearch? That makes alot of sense. I think I'll trust PC and JS over a bunch of internet posters.

But out of curiosity, who do you suppose was "worthy" of the pick?


Well. Russell Wilson and Bobby Wagner, for two.
 

CANHawk

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bestfightstory":2j3moj2c said:
jlwaters1":2j3moj2c said:
But the only opinion that matters is PC and JS. He was the "best available player" according to the 2 poeple who spent countless hours dissecting all the top-end prospects in the draft. And your going to tell me that they were wrong, base on your cursory reasearch? That makes alot of sense. I think I'll trust PC and JS over a bunch of internet posters.

But out of curiosity, who do you suppose was "worthy" of the pick?


Well. Russell Wilson and Bobby Wagner, for two.

So, we got TWO frist round caliber picks PLUS Bruce Irvin! #best.draft.ever.
 

TJH

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jlwaters1":mba7fjvv said:
Only Aldon Smith, Von Miller, and Reggie White had better years. So it defeats your argument.


Only If you look at sacks numbers in a vacuum devoid of context, which is what people who don't really understand football do.
 

TJH

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CANHawkHas Golden Tate taught us nothing about these knee jerk proclamations of "this guy's a bum!"?[/quote said:
Except for the part where nobody is sayign that.
 

Hawkfan77

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bestfightstory":24lc40h7 said:
Your assumption is Bruce Irvin vs all other rookie DEs. There were other options at that pick, including trading back.
Hey revisionist historian, they did trade back to draft Irvin. Plus the Jets were going to take him at 17...

Irvin was the guy they wanted, we all knew how raw he was and he had 8 sacks on pure speed/potential alone. Once he starts to learn new techniques and adds a little more weight, watch out. This kid is going to be special, limited role or not.
 

mistaowen

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TJH":1wisfmf4 said:
CANHawkHas Golden Tate taught us nothing about these knee jerk proclamations of "this guy's a bum!"?[/quote:1wisfmf4 said:
Except for the part where nobody is sayign that.

You must be new here.
 

Hawkfan77

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TJH":29p9u5dv said:
jlwaters1":29p9u5dv said:
Only Aldon Smith, Von Miller, and Reggie White had better years. So it defeats your argument.


Only If you look at sacks numbers in a vacuum devoid of context, which is what people who don't really understand football do.
Oh ok, so you can throw out names of guys who had worse rookies seasons and when that's brought to your attention that your examples are bogus, you say that no one understands football as well as you...ok...

:chug: lay off your own kool-aid
 

bestfightstory

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Hawkfan77":1dpq1hpk said:
bestfightstory":1dpq1hpk said:
Your assumption is Bruce Irvin vs all other rookie DEs. There were other options at that pick, including trading back.
Hey revisionist historian, they did trade back to draft Irvin. Plus the Jets were going to take him at 17...

Irvin was the guy they wanted, we all knew how raw he was and he had 8 sacks on pure speed/potential alone. Once he starts to learn new techniques and adds a little more weight, watch out. This kid is going to be special, limited role or not.

'revisionist historian'?

I am left to conclude that you do not understand the concept the moniker you have affixed upon me suggests.
 

Zowert

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TJH":13mmcj9v said:
Zowert":13mmcj9v said:
95% !?!? That would mean the other 5% he had a sack or solo tackle. Other than Howard, Bruce Irvin has the least amount of playing time among D-linemen. He would only get a handful of plays a game, except during the three blowout games we had. So basically what you're saying is that Irvin's play is black and white. He can't just do his job, that he's either getting destroyed or making a big play.

I doubt when you're watching a Seahawks game that you're focusing on Bruce Irvin the ENTIRE time. Most likely you happened to see him get pancaked or taken out of a play a few times and came to the conclusion that he's not getting the job done.

I'll admit, I use to do this all the time. Until one of my friends put me in my place by telling me there are 22 players on the field and its impossible to focus on every single one of them on every play. Quarterbacks are basically the only guy on the field you're watching every play. Unless you're a scout for an NFL team and you're at a college game to watch one particular player. But you/we are not. We're fans. So to say that you have eyes and they see Bruce Irvin getting destroyed on 95% of the plays he is on the field for is ridiculous...

I watch each game usually 3 times whth a critical focus on different aspects each time. Don't assume you know anything about me or my viewing habits.

If you were so good at evaluating, then you would know that Irvin lead all rookies in sacks. He accomplished that with limited playing time as well... So what do you expect?

How can you take away that fact anyway? Its a good feat, especially for the role he was drafted in, while most were drafted to be full-time pass rushers. As a situation type pass rusher. Not an every down guy. You can argue that a player like Bruce Irvin should have never been picked up so early in the draft, but you don't get paid to do these things. Also, the Seahawks management have done a damn good job in the draft the last couple years. So, I think its best to trust what they're doing. Not someone who only watches games (with no insight on practices, workouts, personal, and in-the-locker-room behavior).
 

Hawkfan77

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bestfightstory":37i90ejb said:
Hawkfan77":37i90ejb said:
bestfightstory":37i90ejb said:
Your assumption is Bruce Irvin vs all other rookie DEs. There were other options at that pick, including trading back.
Hey revisionist historian, they did trade back to draft Irvin. Plus the Jets were going to take him at 17...

Irvin was the guy they wanted, we all knew how raw he was and he had 8 sacks on pure speed/potential alone. Once he starts to learn new techniques and adds a little more weight, watch out. This kid is going to be special, limited role or not.

'revisionist historian'?

I am left to conclude that you do not understand the concept the moniker you have affixed upon me suggests.
So are you saying do you don't remember the draft?
 

bestfightstory

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Do I really have to walk you through this entire thread and hold your hand so you don't get lost??

The fact that they traded back to get to the pick where they selected Irvin, does not change the reality that they could have used that pick in any number of ways INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO........

Are you ready?

.....trading back again.


Get it?
 
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