And we miss you, Veta. Good post too. Interesting ideas.

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Tanzania¹²

Yay! He's alive!

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Shaun Alexander #37 for the HoF - 119 Games 2176 Att 9429 Yards 4.3 YPC 100 TDs (112 TDs total) 2005 MVP

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Can't speak for all states, but since there has been much comparison between "tools of death", I will say that this does not apply to cars.

In Texas, if your vehicle is stolen, then used in a crime, is involved in an accident, or causes death, the owner of the vehicle is not liable. I don't know if there is a time frame where the vehicle would need to be reported stolen or not.

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That's weak sauce!

It does apply to cars on a sliding scale. A normal car when used normally..the chance its going to be used improperly and the chance if used improperly it will cause harm is relatively low.

However, if youre a bartender and you have a customer who is clearly drunk and clearly getting ready to drive home and you do nothing.. since there is increased chance now.. there is I believe in some states some liability. Go a step further.. youre having a party at your house and youre serving alcohol. Your friends drinks a lot of your alcohol. And then asks to borrow your car to drive to the store to buy more alcohol. The chances this is going to end badly for someone out there now is much higher and its much more foreseeable that a reasonable person could expect something bad is going to happen. If it does, youre going to be found liable to some degree or other.

Just like cars, firearms are just things. But they are designed to kill (please spare me any argument here..lets just communicate and not go to extremes with stupid arguments). They are weapons. When you loan someone your firearm you know you are loaning out something with a fair amount of potential for harm. Its doubly so since if youre just loaning it out its less likely the person is trained (maybe they are.. maybe they arent..and youre just taking their word for it anyway), its less likely they have a gun safe if they are borrowing it..indeed, in the example given in this thread its likely there is no intent to keep the gun in a gun safe since its being used for self defense. So, it is forseeable that the gun could be misused. And if it is, then, in my opinion, I would make the person the gun is registered to liable. This would lead to people being a lot more careful with their firearms I believe, knowing that you were liable should anything ever happen with it.

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“If somebody thinks they're a hedgehog, presumably you just give them a mirror and a few pictures of hedgehogs and tell them to sort it out for themselves.”

The Sage speaks! (Welcome back.)

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If you're walking on thin ice, you might as well dance.................................................Mom

Good post. The gun/car comparison is mostly irrelevant. People can die because of cars. People can die because of forks. But those things are tools designed for stuff other than killing. Guns are the opposite; they're tools designed for killing that can also be used for other things.

BUT I think on the loaning & registration aspect there should probably be similar regulations. If you let somebody else use your car or gun then you should be able to report it as such or be held partly responsible for their actions, should the situation call for it.

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Tanzania¹²

And I was speaking specifically to your comment:

"If you dont properly store it, its stolen and the gun is used in a crime.. he is liable."

stolen being the key word.

If you loan a car to someone (again, depending on the state) you could be held liable.

I disagree with your opinion on gun liability on stolen items. If someone keeps a gun in their "locked home" and it is stolen during a break-in, I see no reason to hold that person liable. Gun safes, while providing a higher level of security, are not immune from being stolen and broken into.

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That's weak sauce!

Veta had a good post. While I think there should be some exceptions to borrowing, mainly family members. The key is making more responsibility. Most gun owners are responsible but we need to raise the bar and set a standard. More liability will create more responsibility.

I think most older gun owners are responsible, honestly. They are also the ones more firmly against more government involvement and licensing. If you look at Boating licensing in Washington, new requirements were recenently passed that I think could be applied to guns.

Direct from http://www.parks.wa.gov/



This is interesting because it treats the older generation as more responsible. Which they most likely are, due to their years of experience of being safe. They are treated fairly. It also gradually phases is in a modern system to ensure future safety is properly taught.